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Dragon Ball: After the End

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I think one of the main problems people are having is that almost all of Dandeer's powers came out of the blue, with no foreshadowing whatsoever. People have said that we were wrong to trust the adults - but we trusted them because we had no possible way to know that they were untrustworthy, as nothing in the story gave us any hints that they could be compromised. Similarly, if Poptart had inserted some hints as to Dandeer's other plans/contingencies I think people would be less salty about her being a Mary-Sue (in their words, I personally don't think she is).
 
chryssalideater said:
No, but the point stands that Dandeer's responses to being alone with royalty is to mind control them. As such, I don't see how you'd expect us to go have a conversation with her; we're stupid, but we're not that stupid.
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To go not-alone. Also, these revelations arose only recently, as the thread goes. Prior to then, the thread hardly credited her with the ability to stand upright.
chryssalideater said:
@PoptartProdigy if we go SSJ2 now, do we get a Team 4 Star bonus?
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That's not a thing, no.
 
fireshadow said:
I think one of the main problems people are having is that almost all of Dandeer's powers came out of the blue, with no foreshadowing whatsoever. People have said that we were wrong to trust the adults - but we trusted them because we had no possible way to know that they were untrustworthy, as nothing in the story gave us any hints that they could be compromised. Similarly, if Poptart had inserted some hints as to Dandeer's other plans/contingencies I think people would be less salty about her being a Mary-Sue (in their words, I personally don't think she is).
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Triple post, lets go. I also don't think she's a Mary Sue, this is all about presentation. Fact remains that when an enemy's nature is hidden so well that you didn't even know they were hiding it, it can feel a bit cheap sometimes.
 
Violation of Rule 2 and Rule 4- Refusal to engage with others and ITGism.
Eh, poptart's made it clear that they're doubling down on "I've done nothing wrong, you all are the problem not me." So I don't feel continuing to argue is a fruitful endeavor.

Instead let's discuss good write ins for ways to attempt to subvert this. Unfortunately, the only suggestion I have is push for ssj2 and if successful try to use the chance to kill Dandeer since it's become clear that even if we're told that it's possible to win without killing her, functionally that doesn't seem to be the case.

Trying to possess Dandeer when we become a shade is also a possibility but seems even less likely to work than the above.

This is obviously suboptimal. Anyone have any good outside-the-box suggestions?
 
fictionfan said:
Should not be possible. Either he is mind controlled to protect Dandeer above everything else or why are we fighting?
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Because he think that's the best way to get her out. It's not even about Kakara being a pacifist; she opted to take Dandeer hostage. That means she values Dandeer's continued existence on some level. Yammar's view is that he should exploit that before Kakara's assessment changes.
chryssalideater said:
Fact remains that the players are never under the obligation to flesh out the villain, not provide the opportunity to do so. That's up to the GM to figure out.
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I've got a lot of characters, and the players steer. I'm not going to make Dandeer go OOC in order to provide opportunities to interact with the PC.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
Because he think that's the best way to get her out. It's not even about Kakara being a pacifist; she opted to take Dandeer hostage. That means she values Dandeer's continued existence on some level. Yammar's view is that he should exploit that before Kakara's assessment changes.

I've got a lot of characters, and the players steer. I'm not going to make Dandeer go OOC in order to provide opportunities to interact with the PC.
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Alright, then don't complain about not getting to flesh out Dandeer, or the players finding her bland. You knew what you were signing up for.
 
odin lowe said:
Eh, poptart's made it clear that they're doubling down on "I've done nothing wrong, you all are the problem not me." So I don't feel continuing to argue is a fruitful endeavor.

Instead let's discuss good write ins for ways to attempt to subvert this. Unfortunately, the only suggestion I have is push for ssj2 and if successful try to use the chance to kill Dandeer since it's become clear that even if we're told that it's possible to win without killing her, functionally that doesn't seem to be the case.

Trying to possess Dandeer when we become a shade is also a possibility but seems even less likely to work than the above.

This is obviously suboptimal. Anyone have any good outside-the-box suggestions?
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So, dumb question, what can we do as a shade?
 
PoptartProdigy said:
They cannot.
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Damnit, there goes the "get Android 17 and 18 to Garenhuld to help" plan.

I mean, I guess we can still ask them to train us, and they might be willing to head there either way if we tell them about Tamar, but that might attract the attention of the enemy.

fireshadow said:
I think one of the main problems people are having is that almost all of Dandeer's powers came out of the blue, with no foreshadowing whatsoever. People have said that we were wrong to trust the adults - but we trusted them because we had no possible way to know that they were untrustworthy, as nothing in the story gave us any hints that they could be compromised. Similarly, if Poptart had inserted some hints as to Dandeer's other plans/contingencies I think people would be less salty about her being a Mary-Sue (in their words, I personally don't think she is).
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(Even though I'm quoting you this isn't really directed at you, I'm more trying to add to what you've said. Sorry!)

I do somewhat agree with this, but we did find out she was able to block Seers, mindwipe the entire Saiyan population and kill all Vegetan sorcerers, so I hindsight I don't think it came out of nowhere.

Of course, we had no idea mind control was a thing Saiyan sorcery could do in the first place, but we got offered the option to learn about magic several times and only took it at the last second (and the moment we did that we learned about the mindwipe). Then again, Dandelor didn't expect the mind control either, so maybe that wouldn't have helped.
 
odin lowe said:
Eh, poptart's made it clear that they're doubling down on "I've done nothing wrong, you all are the problem not me." So I don't feel continuing to argue is a fruitful endeavor.

Instead let's discuss good write ins for ways to attempt to subvert this. Unfortunately, the only suggestion I have is push for ssj2 and if successful try to use the chance to kill Dandeer since it's become clear that even if we're told that it's possible to win without killing her, functionally that doesn't seem to be the case.

Trying to possess Dandeer when we become a shade is also a possibility but seems even less likely to work than the above.

This is obviously suboptimal. Anyone have any good outside-the-box suggestions?
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Let's not. Poptart wants to push the quest in a certain direction, so there's no use fighting it.
 
Eh fuck it.

I don't care what happens so long as it ends with us leaving this shit hole of a planet.

fireshadow said:
I think one of the main problems people are having is that almost all of Dandeer's powers came out of the blue, with no foreshadowing whatsoever. People have said that we were wrong to trust the adults - but we trusted them because we had no possible way to know that they were untrustworthy, as nothing in the story gave us any hints that they could be compromised. Similarly, if Poptart had inserted some hints as to Dandeer's other plans/contingencies I think people would be less salty about her being a Mary-Sue (in their words, I personally don't think she is).
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She isn't, just we had no indicator of her abilities going in, and we thought we didn't need to know, but nobody who did thought GEE WIZ maaaaaaaybe we should have the important people in the plan checked by the fucking wizard since they've all interacted with her.

The douche was mind controlled to be passive, Apra wasn't, Dandelor fucking wasn't?

Why was it on us to do that? This seems a basic thing to do when going up against a mind controller?

PoptartProdigy said:
Also, these revelations arose only recently, as the thread goes. Prior to then, the thread hardly credited her with the ability to stand upright.
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When were we given indicators that she could?

We could have investigated her, but everyone assured us that she wouldn't be a problem and none of our co conspirators even ****ing Dandelor, bothered to inform us of her capabilities which may have been a good idea, but no this "conspiracy" (and I use the term loosely) was an incompetent mess from stage 1 because even the supposedly competent people were underestimating her.

At least this answers why Yammar didn't just shoot her in the face.
 
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PoptartProdigy said:
To go not-alone. Also, these revelations arose only recently, as the thread goes. Prior to then, the thread hardly credited her with the ability to stand upright.
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Hmm, who would we of gone with? Everyone I can think of right now was mind-controlled by her so he we had gone with the we would have been mind-controlled as well.
 
chryssalideater said:
[ ] Alter the plan. Due to overwhelming opposition, pick only one of the following:
-[ ] You know that she said not to, but frankly, you need to try. See if you can't snap Jaffur out of his fugue like you did back at Hall Senzu. Do this instead of freeing the Senzus, because you are well awarethat you can't do both, with these odds.

If we're going to free someone, might as well be the person that didn't screw this whole plan up. Fuck the senzus, fuck Yammar, Jaffur at least did his best.
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Jaffur is the one we're MOST unlikely to save. If future Kakara is right about anything it'is probably this.

Dandeer probably modifed the sealing spell to account for him being a sorcerer.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
To go not-alone. Also, these revelations arose only recently, as the thread goes. Prior to then, the thread hardly credited her with the ability to stand upright.
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So, ooq, who wouldwe have gone with? Grandma would have probably tried to kill her, and the same goes with dandelor; at minimum, I wouldn't expect much of a civil conversation with them around. Does this tie back into our earlier failure to not go meet and greet the Gokun Sorcerers and get allies from there?
 
odin lowe said:
Instead let's discuss good write ins for ways to attempt to subvert this. Unfortunately, the only suggestion I have is push for ssj2 and if successful try to use the chance to kill Dandeer since it's become clear that even if we're told that it's possible to win without killing her, functionally that doesn't seem to be the case.

Trying to possess Dandeer when we become a shade is also a possibility but seems even less likely to work than the above.

This is obviously suboptimal. Anyone have any good outside-the-box suggestions?
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That was a bit unnecessarily rude. Poptart did the Poptartiest that could be done and that's all we can really ask.

That aside, all I've seen is the SS2 route and the Shade-possession route. Other than that, I don't know maybe hope Berra stops being a baby and gets off his butt to saves the day? Is he still free and in pain or did Dandeer re-mind control him when we were were busy being told how stupid she is? We've got at least one time patroller around somewhere right? Maybe find a way to get them to do something? This is probably the way history is supposed to go, so they likely won't help though. I don't have a ton of ideas.
 
QTesseract said:
So, ooq, who wouldwe have gone with? Grandma would have probably tried to kill her, and the same goes with dandelor; at minimum, I wouldn't expect much of a civil conversation with them around. Does this tie back into our earlier failure to not go meet and greet the Gokun Sorcerers and get allies from there?
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Dandeer actually liked us before she realized that we turned making her miserable into one of the cornerstones of our life. If we went with Berra we'd probably have been fine. Heck, even if we went alone we'd probably have been fine.

Also, I still don't credit her with the ability to walk upright. It's probably an illusion.

Am I slandering her because I'm bitter that we screwed up, bad? Yes. Yes I am. And Dandeer has a stupid face.
 
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odin lowe said:
Eh, poptart's made it clear that they're doubling down on "I've done nothing wrong, you all are the problem not me." So I don't feel continuing to argue is a fruitful endeavor.

Instead let's discuss good write ins for ways to attempt to subvert this. Unfortunately, the only suggestion I have is push for ssj2 and if successful try to use the chance to kill Dandeer since it's become clear that even if we're told that it's possible to win without killing her, functionally that doesn't seem to be the case.

Trying to possess Dandeer when we become a shade is also a possibility but seems even less likely to work than the above.

This is obviously suboptimal. Anyone have any good outside-the-box suggestions?
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Well here are our three options
A) Do nothing and die
B) Be a ghost, do nothing for several years but vote to train while everyone we love dies forever and theres no way to stop it
C) Go SS2, win and then die instantly in a year instead of now.
 
Rmnimoc said:
That was a bit unnecessarily rude. Poptart did the Poptartiest that could be done and that's all we can really ask.

That aside, all I've seen is the SS2 route and the Shade-possession route. Other than that, I don't know maybe hope Berra stops being a baby and gets off his butt to saves the day? Is he still free and in pain or did Dandeer re-mind control him when we were were busy being told how stupid she is? We've got at least one time patroller around somewhere right? Maybe find a way to get them to do something? This is probably the way history is supposed to go, so they likely won't help though. I don't have a ton of ideas.
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Guys. We're going to space. It's for stupid reasons, and it shouldn't be happening, but we aren't stopping it now, if you couldn't tell from the pettiness of the "fuck the plan" default option.
 
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