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DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest

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Ignoring humanity sins debates, magic being destroyed would kill a whole lot of sentient magical creatures, so Toffee is hardly the good guy here.
 
I think we need to consider less the sides and more the methods. Toffee isn't a threat because he's wrong or unjust, but because he's hurting our people.

We're ultimately a villain, a nice one, but a villain, villains don't argue wrong or right, they go after what they want. They don't compromise for the greater good, or try to bring Justice. They enforce their own order on their domains.

We're perfectly capable of helping our minion find her friends, then burning down mewni and axing the rest of the royal family ourselves if it would be good for us.
 
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KnightofTempest said:
Magic is destroyed and Bill becomes a lot less scary. I'm honestly not sure if he can exist in our dimension with no magic to begin with. . .
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Star vs the Forces of Evil magic is different than Phineas and Ferb Magic, which is different than Gargoyles magic, which is different than Gravity Falls Magic, which is different than Toon Magic, you get my fucking point.

Genocide. Is. Bad.
 
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KnightofTempest said:
I have a lot less sympathy for the Mewmans and Star's group than most people who watched the show probably do. The simple fact is that Mewni was a Kingdom founded on genocide because Glossaryk felt like being a dick.

If I were Toffee, I'd be pissed too.
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They're children. Two of them aren't even Mewmans at all.

Toffee has every right to be angry, and every right to to strike back at his oppressors. I've joked in passing with a couple friends that "Doofquest takes place in an alternate universe where all the Disney villains won, except in Star Vs., where Toffee won instead."

But the man is not waging a war against an evil regime, anymore. He's following literal teenagers who had nothing to do with - no knowledge of - his painful past into another dimension entirely. Following after their running away from him. To kill them. To capture them. To conquer them, and their families, and their home. To punish them for the sin of ... existing.

For heavens' sake, the worst thing that Janna has done to Toffee is make friends with someone Toffee didn't like. And yet here she sits, legs hanging over the edge of the roof, barely holding in tears, hysteric, stressed out of her mind. Scared.

It's genuinely cool if you just like Toffee better than Janna. He's a charismatic villain, and people often like villains better than heroes because, hey, they're cool. But he is the bad guy, all joking aside. We have to take that into account when we make our plans.
 
Arathnorn said:
It's worth noting that Toffee entered the Mewni political scene by instigating a monster rebellion against overwhelming prejudice and marginalization. Very fair. When the then Queen of Mewni tried to make peace with the monsters, Toffee came to the meeting and stabbed her to death in cold blood, then began a lightning war that took him to the Mewman capital.

Less fair.
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As someone who hasn't watched the show, I'm getting the impression that while the Mewni did evil things, Toffee wants revenge for those things and not justice to the point that he blocked an attempt at getting justice because it would gotten in the way of his vengeance?
 
KnightofTempest said:
Your point being? She still benefits massively from it just by being a Royal Princess of Mewni

At this point its institutional
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And at this point you're trolling. Toffee may have had a point originally. His stated canon goal is genocide and the corruption of magic away from the control of Mewmans. And thus humans since Mewmans are human descendants. His end goal is wiping us all out. He doesn't deserve sympathy for that. If you can't get that, then would you kindly just stop bringing it up?
 
Rule 2: Don’t Be Hateful: When you start suggesting that the persecution and murder of children is appropriate and justified, you should reconsider your position.
AProcrastinator said:
They're children. Two of them aren't even Mewmans at all.

Toffee has every right to be angry, and every right to to strike back at his oppressors. I've joked in passing with a couple friends that "Doofquest takes place in an alternate universe where all the Disney villains won, except in Star Vs., where Toffee won instead."

But the man is not waging a war against an evil regime, anymore. He's following literal teenagers who had nothing to do with - no knowledge of - his painful past into another dimension entirely. Following after their running away from him. To kill them. To capture them. To conquer them, and their families, and their home. To punish them for the sin of ... existing.

For heavens' sake, the worst thing that Janna has done to Toffee is make friends with someone Toffee didn't like. And yet here she sits, legs hanging over the edge of the roof, barely holding in tears, hysteric, stressed out of her mind. Scared.

It's genuinely cool if you just like Toffee better than Janna. He's a charismatic villain, and people often like villains better than heroes because, hey, they're cool. But he is the bad guy, all joking aside. We have to take that into account when we make our plans.
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Children who are dangerous and who have every reason to try and overthrow him from earth. That's not persecution, that's securing his reign.
 
KnightofTempest said:
Magic is destroyed and Bill becomes a lot less scary. I'm honestly not sure if he can exist in our dimension with no magic to begin with. . .
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Technically he didn't destroy any magic. Toffee corrupted the Mewni well of magic, subsuming that energy source but touching no others. Phobos still has his and Earth still has its own. Bill runs on his own crazy and is equally unaffected.
 
Now that we know that Toffee is not from this dimension i cant wait for us to create our own backdoor to Mewni.
From there i would like us to find out about Miss Heinous and we would have an in character reason to seek her out due to her connections to various royal families in her school from there if we play our cards right we can reveal her true background as Meteora Butterfly and from there we find and release Eclipsa and Globgor and voila we get powerful heroes and legitimasy in our ousting of Toffee to both monsters and mewnians
 
KnightofTempest said:
I have a lot less sympathy for the Mewmans and Star's group than most people who watched the show probably do. The simple fact is that Mewni was a Kingdom founded on genocide because Glossaryk felt like being a dick.

If I were Toffee, I'd be pissed too.
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Oh, being pissed at Mewni for what they did is entirely reasonable. They're hardly uniquely bad as a polity - plenty of europeans countries have done worse, for instance - but I wouldn't begrudge the Irish for a grudge against Britain either, or the Mayans the Spanish. And Toffee is a direct part of the effected demographic. I won't dispute in the slightest that Toffee has reason to act against them, nor can I really even fault him for violent approach to fighting colonialism and oppression.

The problem comes when he doesn't stop there. Regaining the monster's their territory is all well and good, keeping the mewnen from putting things back the way they were prior to Toffee is just good sense, even if you do have to balance the concerns of the people who do live there now if you want to be equitable. But Sins of the Father is a poor way to make moral decisions, and people like Janna and Marco - and the people effected by his expansion into other dimensions - lack even that. At worst, they're guilty of the crime of making friends with someone who he doesn't even really have a good reason to target in the first place, and for that, they deserve to have him go after them with his armies and magic and money, to kill or kidnap or dissapear him? Of all the people who's opposition to Toffee is justified, I think Janna has one of the strongest cases.
ExNihilo said:
However, I don't think Toffee wiping out magic kills Cypher, as he's basically the definition of outside of context problem. Is he even magic? And while inators could kill/banish Triangle, as I understand, that's basically how he was beaten in canon, I don't want to give up anti-cypher weapons if I can help it.
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Almost certainly not. He operates on rather different paradigms from normal magic, for one; he's much more of a demon or god of chaos, thematically, than some powerful spellcaster. It might end up taking a few tools from his toolbox, but it would also take away some of the best ways of stopping him, like the unicorn hair barriers, so it would be very much a double edged sword.
 
Speaking as someone else who hasn't watched the show, Toffee seems to have already accomplished everything he needed to. Target the people responsible, never those simply associated by existing. Children are a good example. If we could get the guy to cease his little crusade I might be willing to come to the table and hear out whatever he's doing. Assuming that isn't genocide, and falls in the way of more mundane evils, I might even be swayed.

However, for as long as his goals consist of what they appear to, we can justify as many of his actions as we want but at the end of the day those actions are wrong. Can we understand them? Certainly. Is it okay? Hell no.

That's what I've taken away from all of this, as someone unfamiliar with the show.
 
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