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DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest

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@MrHobbit If anything, I think removing that trait requires a combination of getting apartment, studying science, and studying history, with science as the smallest factor.

Science is just the theory. But nearly everyone that drives a car can do so without knowing the science behind it, so this is probably the smallest factor.

Apartment (and other things related to that) is the application/experience, and history is the context and implication/importance that helps in analysing situations, for example, knowing that people carry objects around that let them take pictures/video and share them immediately and contact others.
 
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woweed said:
I have to bring it up, but that exhaust port was actually pretty well-designed. Frankly, given the kind of ventilation a ship that size would need, reducing the exhaust port down to that size is actually quite impressive. Plus, even Luke would have failed to actually blow it up, were it not for, ya know, The Force: By all laws of physics, the exhaust port should just push out the bomb, given, ya know, Exhaust, but Luke Used the Force, and something unforeseen happened. And i'd say it's fairly reasonable to not account for the possibility of physics-defying space wizards in your plans.
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I saw the movie 'Rogue One' some time ago. My take on it was this:

Many heat/waste material removal methods are available to the massive mobile space station "Death Star[1]".

[1] Its no moon, btw, but a Space Station :p.

This one particular vent has designed by a genius engineer to slip by all of the checks by all the other designers, to allow for a torpedo to hit the weak point to cause the entire thing to blow up. Maybe the port was just an empty tube, with no 'wind' pushing against a hypothetical torpedo.

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My point is that the plans were designed by someone who wanted the Death Star to be destroyed.

The force might have been needed, but the point I was getting at is that the person who designed it... did it with the desire that the thing he designed be blown up.

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Direct question: Have you seen Rogue One?
 
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If it helps move the conversation away from Star Wars (which is not on topic because no Star Wars), I was able to make more progress on premade cards! Now I have some back stock and can drop them on time with the update to each round.

I also updated Janna and Jumba to note their stats being modified by add-on characters like 625 and Felldrake.
 
weredrago2 said:
If it helps move the conversation away from Star Wars (which is not on topic because no Star Wars), I was able to make more progress on premade cards! Now I have some back stock and can drop them on time with the update to each round.

I also updated Janna and Jumba to note their stats being modified by add-on characters like 625 and Felldrake.
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cards? game?

card games on motorcycles??!??!!??!!?!?!

WHAT IS THIS!?!


CONTEXT DEMANDED! EXPLAIN! EXPLAIN!
 
Nystical said:
@MrHobbit If anything, I think removing that trait requires a combination of getting apartment, studying science, and studying history, with science as the smallest factor.

Science is just the theory. But nearly everyone that drives a car can do so without knowing the science behind it, so this is probably the smallest factor.

Apartment (and other things related to that) is the application/experience, and history is the context and implication/importance that helps in analysing situstions, for example, knowing that people carry objects around that let them take pictures/video and share them immediately and contact others.
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I am aware that it will take a fair amount of effort and a combination of several actions to undo the malus. I still stand by the fact that science will go the furthest in removing it. History won't be going into technology, not often anyways. Most of it will be abstract. The Khan is not an idiot, by now he would know that technology has advanced. Much of the history lessons will be going into the politics (for lack of a better term) of the past. It will go over wars, trade, disease, ect. It won't say that an M16 rifle has an effective range of 460 meters. History will talk of the slaughter that the machine gun unleashed in the First World War, but it won't really go very in depth. It will say that Little Boy and Fat Man killed 129,000-226,000 people when dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but it will be abstract. Should Temüjin be taught the science first it would be easier to understand why and how it happened.

Besides, history won't be only going over the past century. There are around six hundred years that he would need to learn about.

I would also think that a fair amount of the history teaching will be done with technology. It can only help him to understand the Ipads and Chromebooks DoofPads and Doofbooks and for him to see them as more mundane (the Khan is quite smart and he would understand it is not magic, but it would be better to inoculate him first).

Edit: It would probably be a good idea to have Technor psychoanalyze Genghis Khan after the science and history lessons are completed. Especially after he finishes his history lessons.
 
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MrHobbit said:
This is minus thirty when the Khan is dealing with modern technology. Basically against any serious foe we could care to name he only has 25 Martial.

Science will show the Khan what is possible and through it the Khan can understand why history happened.
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While I suspect this comment was made with sincerity, it is demonstrably and provably wrong.

During the November turn, Khan fought organized crime.

Made in Heaven said:
[ ] Combat organized crime in Doofania
DC ??? (Reduced by XP)
15+13+55+8-30 (??? interference)=61
Miserable (but not critical) Failure
Temujin went out to eliminate all the crime he could find, and was brutally effective in doing so. Unfortunately, he wasn't quite literal enough when considering that crime could've gone underground. Professor Von Drake took special care to ensure he had an adequate understanding of metaphors, slang, figures of speech, especially with so many Toons around, so he took the statement to mean they were lurking in the shadows rather than being literally below the earth. Unfortunately for everyone, that means he overlooked a rather crucial component in the underworld…
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Notably, the -30 came from interference, not his tech malice. The organized crime in question was from two tech-based supervillains. Therefore Khan doesn't suffer penalties to breaking technology. And we can see this clearly by going one update earlier and seeing that smashing robots doesn't trigger his tech penalty. While I believe it was made sincerely, your comment does not reflect reality.

MrHobbit said:
He has a Diplomacy of -15, a Stewardship of -8, an Intrigue of -12, and a Learning of -18 when dealing with modern technology.

The option which will do the most towards negating the Khan's unfamiliarity with technology will be directly studying technology.
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And we care... why? We aren't using Khan for any of these. In this system focused beat generalist. On national actions, the only thing that matters is the state relative to the item, and Khan isn't going to be used on-nonmarital actions. The only time we might see one is a quest, and notably, quests use your top two people, with no penalty for lower-stated members of your group. As such, it only means that Khan is a focused martial power-house for quests and we need to supplement him, which we have more than enough heroes to do so.

Losing our best martial hero for however many turns for an extremely dubious advantage is not a good use of our actions.
 
clockworkchaos said:
Losing our best martial hero for however many turns for an extremely dubious advantage is not a good use of our actions.
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I agree, but I do think steed and history could increase his martial. Steed because steed, and history because of tactics and strategy developments which is baked into the martial stat.

Maybe when he have an explicitly tech focused martial action (PMC energy weapons, upgrade Norm, etc.) we could have him do those actions.

I would say history first, and steed once we've unlocked domesticated dinos.
 
Nystical said:
I agree, but I do think steed and history could increase his martial. Steed because steed, and history because of tactics and strategy developments which is baked into the martial stat.
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Oh once we have dinosaur genetics, I'm all for steed, I don't consider that modernizing, and is martial. If we don't have any better options I'd conceded to history, but I'm more skeptical of that.
 
clockworkchaos said:
While I suspect this comment was made with sincerity, it is demonstrably and provably wrong.
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I'm not sure that would have specifically would have triggered it.

Or Made In Heaven could have forgotten about the trait. By all rights that should have triggered the trait. Unless the supervillains were hoarding the technology, which is certainly possible. I wouldn't say that is conclusive evidence. If any of the technology shown in the last parts of Luck be a Lady had been used, it would have been mentioned. Something about the criminals used advanced technology or some jibber jabber.

And we care... why? We aren't using Khan for any of these. In this system focused beat generalist. On national actions, the only thing that matters is the state relative to the item, and Khan isn't going to be used on-nonmarital actions. The only time we might see one is a quest, and notably, quests use your top two people, with no penalty for lower-stated members of your group. As such, it only means that Khan is a focused martial power-house for quests and we need to supplement him, which we have more than enough heroes to do so.

Losing our best martial hero for however many turns for an extremely dubious advantage is not a good use of our actions.
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Because they are the lowest statlines in the game. We learned from Operation: Blue Hawaii that Stewardship, Intrigue, ect all can be used in Quests. It would be better to be prepared than for it to come back with all the vengeance of a nuclear bomb in an awkward moment.

Besides, the coming up turns should be relatively peaceful. The listed Martial actions are related to technology or are too unimportant to actually use the Khan on. He should be free for the next few turns. Not to mention it is just mean to completely ignore the Khan's issues with integrating with modern society.
 
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MrHobbit said:
Because they are the lowest statlines in the game. We learned from Operation: Blue Hawaii that Stewardship, Intrigue, ect all can be used in Quests. It would be better to have him.

Besides, the coming up turns should be relatively peaceful. The listed Martial actions are related to technology or are too unimportant to actually use the Khan on. He should be free for the next few turns. Not to mention it is just mean to completely ignore the Khan's issues with integrating with modern society.
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Those only matter if he's leading a quest. You want a generalist in the lead role, but outside of the lead, only the best for any stat matters. So for someone like Wile or (post power solved) Technor, giving them an extra couple diplomacy or intrigue or whatever could be helpful, because they're likely to be leading a fair number of quests, but even if modernizing him gives a 50% boost to learning it probably won't ever come up as a roll when he's in support.
 
Nystical said:
I agree, but I do think steed and history could increase his martial. Steed because steed, and history because of tactics and strategy developments which is baked into the martial stat.

Maybe when he have an explicitly tech focused martial action (PMC energy weapons, upgrade Norm, etc.) we could have him do those actions.

I would say history first, and steed once we've unlocked domesticated dinos.
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If you want a Dino Steed then shouldn't we wait until Dinosaur Cavalry, which the research option will appear after Dinosaur Domestification is unlocked and until Khan get his apartement? The first just to make sure the Dino is on the list of getting the new steed and the second is for Temujin have the place where he wouldn't worry for the Dino to be eaten by Gary, again.
 
QTesseract said:
Those only matter if he's leading a quest. You want a generalist in the lead role, but outside of the lead, only the best for any stat matters. So for someone like Wile or (post power solved) Technor, giving them an extra couple diplomacy or intrigue or whatever could be helpful, because they're likely to be leading a fair number of quests, but even if modernizing him gives a 50% boost to learning it probably won't ever come up as a roll when he's in support.
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Modernizing removes the -30 malus on Genghis Khan. I just don't think it is a great idea to let a Diplomacy of -15, a Stewardship of -8, an Intrigue of -12, and a Learning of -18 just lying around without trying to fix it. This just screams like something that a GM could use to cause chaos, death, and misery.

What exactly are we going to use Genghis Khan on next turn anyways? Destroying the Resistance? I don't think we will be attacking any rivals any time soon. There is quite a bit of Intrigue to accomplish before that anyways.
 
MrHobbit said:
I'm not sure that would have specifically would have triggered it.

Or Made In Heaven could have forgotten about the trait. By all rights that should have triggered the trait. Unless the supervillains were hoarding the technology, which is certainly possible. I wouldn't say that is conclusive evidence. If any of the technology shown in the last parts of Luck be a Lady had been used, it would have been mentioned. Something about the criminals used advanced technology or some jibber jabber.
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Possibility A: You misunderstood how the trait works. Fighting tech enemies doesn't trigger it. Only trying to use tech. Because, fighting something techy isn't focused around tech, it's focused around fighting.
Possibility B: The GM has forgotten their own traits over multiple rolls.

@Made in Heaven?

@QTesseract has already explained why quests don't work like you seem to think. We have generalists for covering secondary stats, we are better off using them for that role.


MrHobbit said:
Modernizing removes the -30 malus on Genghis Khan. I just don't think it is a great idea to let a Diplomacy of -15, a Stewardship of -8, an Intrigue of -12, and a Learning of -18 just lying around without trying to fix it. This just screams like something that a GM could use to cause chaos, death, and misery.

What exactly are we going to use Genghis Khan on next turn anyways? Destroying the Resistance? I don't think we will be attacking any rivals any time soon. There is quite a bit of Intrigue to accomplish before that anyways.
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The GM is not out to screw us over. Stop treating it like they are.

As for what we use them for the next turn, I don't know, we will see our options then. But I guarantee you this. Modernizing Khan because of worries that the GM will be screwing us over is going to take a lot more than one turn.
 
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Isn't the only Martial action left beside Black Ops, Resistance, Assault a Rival, and Perform Supervillainy are all somewhat related to Technology? I rather Temujin studied Technology first to not have him be limited to these four actions because of Malus.
 
clockworkchaos said:
Possibility A: You misunderstood how the trait works. Fighting tech enemies doesn't trigger it. Only trying to use tech. Because, fighting something techy isn't focused around tech, it's focused around fighting.
Possibility B: The GM has forgotten their own traits over multiple rolls.

Made in Heaven?

QTesseract has already explained why quests don't work like you seem to think. We have generalists for covering secondary stats, we are better off using them for that role.
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It might also be that specific use of advanced technology did not trigger the trait. Regardless it would be nice to have the trait explained more in depth.

The Khan still has pretty good stats. For instance, only three of our heroes are better than him in Stewardship (2 other heroes tie with him) (incidentally those are Technor (when at full power) and Wile E. Coyote). Would you rather that he have better stats, or would you rather he spend next turn hunting down the Resistance? I did over emphasise the Khan's weakness, but it does not mean that it is a good idea to sit on our laurels and hope that nothing changes so we can continue focusing on the Khan's martial to the exclusion of all else.

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clockworkchaos said:
The GM is not out to screw us over. Stop treating it like they are.

As for what we use them for the next turn, I don't know, we will see our options then. But I guarantee you this. Modernizing Khan because of worries that the GM will be screwing us over is going to take a lot more than one turn.
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It's not screwing the players over to let the natural results of everything fall into place. It is much safer to try to modernize Khan.
 
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clockworkchaos said:
Possibility A: You misunderstood how the trait works. Fighting tech enemies doesn't trigger it. Only trying to use tech. Because, fighting something techy isn't focused around tech, it's focused around fighting.
Possibility B: The GM has forgotten their own traits over multiple rolls.

@Made in Heaven?

@QTesseract has already explained why quests don't work like you seem to think. We have generalists for covering secondary stats, we are better off using them for that role.
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Temujin's malus didn't proc on that quest because it had no reason to. It doesn't matter if you have twelve PhDs or if you're an illiterate caveman, hitting technology sufficiently hard will still destroy it. Now, if he had to do something like hack the robots or rebuild the robots, the malus would definitely come into play.
 
Once Khan is fully adjusted he will likely end up as one of our strongest units...



Also has anyone here seen Loonatics Unleashed?

Because it has given me some... Ideas on ways to improve our toons.

Imagine if Wil E. Could control magnetism, had a massive intellect boost, and now could regenerate from just about anything (potentially even dip if we could save a piece of him.)

Imagine if Road Runner could suddenly speak, fly, have inbuilt radar, AND trail fire at will....


If we could get Taz, Lola, Bugs, and Daffy we could have a team of super powerful mutant toons to help out.



Although the meteor supposedly happened in the future... I don't see why, once we learn of the gaps in time, we can't send a few people out to gather samples from the Metoerite and the energy it puts off for study....

Also there are the interdimensional rifts (and creatures like the Fuz-Z that live past said rifts who make for marvelous monster units and look adorable when not monsters) which we could totally use...

All it would take would be a quick Jaunt over to ACMEtropolis
 
Made in Heaven said:
Temujin's malus didn't proc on that quest because it had no reason to. It doesn't matter if you have twelve PhDs or if you're an illiterate caveman, hitting technology sufficiently hard will still destroy it. Now, if he had to do something like hack the robots or rebuild the robots, the malus would definitely come into play.
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Huh, thanks! So if we were to do something like equip the PMC with the energy weapons it could hurt Khan? What exactly would cause a Martial debuff? Are we talking Xeelee to Interim Coalition of Governance level of out of context problems or is it more would it the tech disparity between Native Americans vs Spanish Conquistadors before the Khan just can't understand wtf is happening?
 
lockingbane said:
Once Khan is fully adjusted he will likely end up as one of our strongest units...



Also has anyone here seen Loonatics Unleashed?

Because it has given me some... Ideas on ways to improve our toons.

Imagine if Wil E. Could control magnetism, had a massive intellect boost, and now could regenerate from just about anything (potentially even dip if we could save a piece of him.)

Imagine if Road Runner could suddenly speak, fly, have inbuilt radar, AND trail fire at will....


If we could get Taz, Lola, Bugs, and Daffy we could have a team of super powerful mutant toons to help out.



Although the meteor supposedly happened in the future... I don't see why, once we learn of the gaps in time, we can't send a few people out to gather samples from the Metoerite and the energy it puts off for study....

Also there are the interdimensional rifts (and creatures like the Fuz-Z that live past said rifts who make for marvelous monster units and look adorable when not monsters) which we could totally use...

All it would take would be a quick Jaunt over to ACMEtropolis
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Who says any of that exists here? Remember, Toons are ACTORS here. Actors who share many things in common with their on-screen roles, but still.
 
Regarding having Temujin have free time to do a personal action. I think we need to deal with the Resistance next turn and we have either Max or Vanessa do it.

Not only that there is no other action that seems urgent, and the DC for it is so small. There is also because of this mechanic.

Made in Heaven said:
Choosing certain hero units might unlock (or conversely, lock) certain actions. For example, having Goofy in your party could let you begin diplomacy with an otherwise intractable toon.
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I know this is a Quest Mechanic, but I think it still applies as shown by how Norm get ACME Retrofitted Trait when we assign Coyote to Upgrade him.

Having Temujin, Norm, or Coyote deal with the resistance is not only Overkill, but also because at best they will only able to make then shut up and not bother us anymore.

Having either Max or Vanessa on the action instead will have the chance to have them tell us some usefull info like where the Devil Girl is or even recruit them out right due to their In Crowd Trait that would let them get along easier with the other Teenagers.

Just I recommend have Max do it. I know Vanessa is a local and thus may know some of the Teenagers, but I will put my trust more on them being friendly with the Son of a Famous Toon rather then the Daughter of the one they hate.
 
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