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DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest

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MrHobbit said:
I would be fine doing silphium if we didn't have other corporate actions to do. Your plan had two corporate actions. Therefore it would cost a fund. I don't want to spend a fund on silphium this far out from payday.

I do not believe we can voluntarily go below zero funds. We can go below through penalties, but we can't choose to. So if we don't have seven funds when it's time for the final sprint to find Star, we can't get the Dickens. And they are by far the best chance we have of finding her.

What do you plan to swap the corporate action for?
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Ah. I see.

I can't find anything that says we can't. It just says nothing bad happens if we go to 0. Guess that's up to the QMs.

Gene Therapy Clinics. Yes, they cost a fund, but the only other free stuff under Corporate is that Sigma Six thing that has a 30% CoS (no thank you) and looking through Corporate Records, which I don't see helping us at all.
 
mangawriter77 said:
Ah. I see.

I can't find anything that says we can't. It just says nothing bad happens if we go to 0. Guess that's up to the QMs.

Gene Therapy Clinics. Yes, they cost a fund, but the only other free stuff under Corporate is that Sigma Six thing that has a 30% CoS (no thank you) and looking through Corporate Records, which I don't see helping us at all.
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It wasn't in the rules, it was in a comment after the great rule rework. MiH was a bit ambiguous, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't allow us to spend into the negatives for funds.

I'll admit I have positive bias towards gene therapy clinics, even if it does cost funds. I want to do the New Man Project. Strictly speaking it's probably better to do market research, but still.

Made in Heaven said:
If Doof goes into negatives for his liquid funds, does it balance out by deducting from his next yearly income, or is that not actually mechanically possible?
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If you go into the negatives this turn, your yearly income next turn will almost certainly bring you out of the red. If you go into the negatives on another turn, you'll have to gain income in some way to get yourself out of it- staying in the negatives on income is very bad and will carry with it a lot of harsh penalties.

Edit: you can't choose to go into the negatives, you'd essentially be trying to spend income you don't have.
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Edit: Forgot about this.
Torgamous said:
Yes. There's no organization on Earth that understands fucking up more than Doofenshmirtz Evil Incorporated, the megacorp headed by Heinz Doofenshmirtz with upper management including Goofy, Mirage, Ludivine von Drake, Malifishmirtz, and Wile E. fucking Coyote. Hell, we still respect Alan.

If she'd called security and said she called up something she couldn't put down, she'd probably have gotten a shrug and a "hey, it happens." What really sets Doof off, both with Lovemuffin and Malifishmirtz, is actively creating very big problems that you then refuse to own up to, something that Janna very nearly did here specifically because she thought that owning up to it would make it worse.

This will not be resolved without a talk. That talk may not need to be now, but it needs to happen.
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There's a funny thing about that though. DEI is shedding the naivete that created a lot of that atmosphere. Sure, we won't dismiss Janna because lol lmao. But with Feldrake deciding that Janna needs to stop relying on him, she won't be as strong of an occult unit. Now we have Celena the Shy and we'll get another occult unit with the hiring action.

Like, Janna and Feldrake were wrong about needing to not rely on others, but they weren't wrong that Janna herself needs to grow. She needs to be able to stand as a peer and she's in an awkward middle state, like a teenager. Talking to Doof won't solve that. A lot of her problems in this interlude stemmed from her sense of entitlement to Feldrake, Tom, and Marco's time. She demanded their presence, but didn't respect them. Then floundered when they couldn't attend or she didn't listen to them. That's not something Doof can help with. He's the owner of DEI. He can't really relate to that situation as he is. He does get to command countless minions to obey his whims. That's what he does on a daily basis! Doof does take people for granted, sorta. But his growth hasn't gone in a way has been more about shedding delusions. Not what Janna's problems are.
 
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Hats off to @Made in Heaven and the rest of the team - you guys have been absolutely on fire these last couple updates.

In particular everything involving the Sanderson sisters has been great. It definitely reads like you're having a blast writing them and I'm so glad they've been upgraded to wandering villains so we get to see them more often.
 
MrHobbit said:
There's a funny thing about that though. DEI is shedding the naivete that created a lot of that atmosphere. Sure, we won't dismiss Janna because lol lmao. But with Feldrake deciding that Janna needs to stop relying on him, she won't be as strong of an occult unit. Now we have Celena the Shy and we'll get another occult unit with the hiring action.

Like, Janna and Feldrake were wrong about needing to not rely on others, but they weren't wrong that Janna herself needs to grow. She needs to be able to stand as a peer and she's in an awkward middle state, like a teenager. Talking to Doof won't solve that. A lot of her problems in this interlude stemmed from her sense of entitlement to Feldrake, Tom, and Marco's time. She demanded their presence, but didn't respect them. Then floundered when they couldn't attend or she didn't listen to them. That's not something Doof can help with. He's the owner of DEI. He can't really relate to that situation as he is. He does get to command countless minions to obey his whims. That's what he does on a daily basis! Doof does take people for granted, sorta. But his growth hasn't gone in a way has been more about shedding delusions. Not what Janna's problems are.
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...I think Janna may only beat Dennis in base stat total.
 
MrHobbit said:
That's not something Doof can help with
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If that is the case, having Lizzy talk to her might be better. She has a close relationship with Janna and is a fellow member of the Marcnificent Few. Janna might be more willing to open up about her issues to Lizzy, and if she goes after the Sandersons on her own, Lizzy could at least provide some kind of backup.
 
MrHobbit said:
There's a funny thing about that though. DEI is shedding the naivete that created a lot of that atmosphere. Sure, we won't dismiss Janna because lol lmao. But with Feldrake deciding that Janna needs to stop relying on him, she won't be as strong of an occult unit. Now we have Celena the Shy and we'll get another occult unit with the hiring action.

Like, Janna and Feldrake were wrong about needing to not rely on others, but they weren't wrong that Janna herself needs to grow. She needs to be able to stand as a peer and she's in an awkward middle state, like a teenager. Talking to Doof won't solve that. A lot of her problems in this interlude stemmed from her sense of entitlement to Feldrake, Tom, and Marco's time. She demanded their presence, but didn't respect them. Then floundered when they couldn't attend or she didn't listen to them. That's not something Doof can help with. He's the owner of DEI. He can't really relate to that situation as he is. He does get to command countless minions to obey his whims. That's what he does on a daily basis! Doof does take people for granted, sorta. But his growth hasn't gone in a way has been more about shedding delusions. Not what Janna's problems are.
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Doof still respects Alan. He may be losing his tolerance of wacky cartoon villainy but you're overcorrecting.

It seems like you think that talking to Janna is only useful if Doof can offer life advice, and, no. Conversations can be about other things. For example, if someone is unsure about their standing in an organization, it might benefit them to be told "sure, we won't dismiss you because lol lmao." Someone who's worried about being respected could stand to hear that they already are respected and won't lose that just from accidentally summoning a few witches. Someone who thinks they'll be punished for asking for help really needs to be told that that won't happen, not just for personal growth, that's the kind of thing every employer needs to include in the employee handbook that Janna didn't get because she hired herself.

This is a conversation that needs to happen because one of the obstacles to her relying on others was a combination of the above three things.
 
Torgamous said:
Doof still respects Alan. He may be losing his tolerance of wacky cartoon villainy but you're overcorrecting.

It seems like you think that talking to Janna is only useful if Doof can offer life advice, and, no. Conversations can be about other things. For example, if someone is unsure about their standing in an organization, it might benefit them to be told "sure, we won't dismiss you because lol lmao." Someone who's worried about being respected could stand to hear that they already are respected and won't lose that just from accidentally summoning a few witches. Someone who thinks they'll be punished for asking for help really needs to be told that that won't happen, not just for personal growth, that's the kind of thing every employer needs to include in the employee handbook that Janna didn't get because she hired herself.

This is a conversation that needs to happen because one of the obstacles to her relying on others was a combination of the above three things.
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I think the big issue with talking to Janna is Janna is explicitly trying to hide stuff from Doof, and Doof doesn't have any idea what information he can try and coax out of her.
 
Something to keep in mind for turn planning is that when a crisis hits we pull together a defence team selected from the heroes who could plausible be available. So for example if Khan is designing vehicles then he is probably in DEI HQ or motoring around Danville so would be available. But if we send Russ to go recruit Fred then he will be in another city entierly and could not be picked.
While I very much hope that the core of our defence will be Doof and the QMS rolling out the On-Ice no-longer-an-inator to one shot the problem that is not something to rely on.
So we should make sure we are keeping a half-dozen of our heavy hitters close to hand next turn.
 
Torgamous said:
Doof still respects Alan. He may be losing his tolerance of wacky cartoon villainy but you're overcorrecting.

It seems like you think that talking to Janna is only useful if Doof can offer life advice, and, no. Conversations can be about other things. For example, if someone is unsure about their standing in an organization, it might benefit them to be told "sure, we won't dismiss you because lol lmao." Someone who's worried about being respected could stand to hear that they already are respected and won't lose that just from accidentally summoning a few witches. Someone who thinks they'll be punished for asking for help really needs to be told that that won't happen, not just for personal growth, that's the kind of thing every employer needs to include in the employee handbook that Janna didn't get because she hired herself.

This is a conversation that needs to happen because one of the obstacles to her relying on others was a combination of the above three things.
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Note what I said, "we won't dismiss Janna because lol lmao."

Janna's problem is like what I said, she's not a peer to her fellows. She knows how flaky she is. She knows that we hired her because we had literally nobody else. Compare her stat totals to all of our other heroes. Do you know who she beats? Dennis the Duck and Norm Prime. She also beat Gomez before we put him in the QMS. She wants to be relevant.

Do you know who the last person Doof talked to like this was from Janna's perspective? It'd be Kitsune. You know, when she was considering suicide. Janna knew things were bad, that she couldn't do anything, then Doof talked to Kitsune, and now Kitsune is reborn and more vibrant and alive than ever. Do you think Janna would appreciate that comparison? The CEO takes time out of his day because he thinks she needs help. And Kitsune getting so much better (than her) is part of the problem in the first place.

Don't get me wrong, sure, rolling well probably would help. But it wouldn't solve her problem, as I've been saying. Doof saying something like he won't replace Janna even if she screws up won't help because her problem is that she screwed up in the first place. Doof isn't socially astute to get to the bottom of that problem.

Arathnorn actually mentioned in the Discord that he was waiting for us to notice that Janna doesn't have very good stats.
I've been waiting for this moment
Janna caught on slightly before you did that she's getting outpaced.
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Torgamous said:
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Wow, you mean to tell me that comments exist in context and that cutting sentences out from the argument as a whole won't give you the full picture of what the person meant? Quote unrelated.

Talking about how a chat would help her eventually is disingenuous when we're talking about whether to talk to her now. In five turns her situation will be entirely different. And in this situation the help Doofchats can provide is basically negligible until Janna reaches the point where she just needs to cross over the finish line.

MrHobbit said:
And Janna doesn't want to talk about what happened. Sure it'd help if we roll well. But Janna is an adult.
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I've been thinking about who to give Feldrake too, like the QMS or Lizzy, but I've been convinced by the thread otherwise. I think Janna should keep Feldrake on her even when she loses his boost. Sure, he won't be helping her cast magic and thus she doesn't have as much of an Occult stat, sure, it's not the most mechanically sound idea when he could be giving a boost to someone else. But narratively, like, these two are still friends, this isn't him abandoning her, this is him testing his "best apprentice ever" to see if she can truly stand on her own. I think it would be a shame to ditch that by giving him away to someone else, especially since trading him back to Janna might be dicey depending on whom. I think him taking away his powers, and then returning them at a later date would be more satisfying to read. It doesn't make much mechanical sense in the short term, but in the long term, and narratively in general, it makes sense.

Also, why would we take Leopold away from his mommy, that's a nice Martial boost for her on Quest's!

Also also, we do have that contact the Morganians action that we know we'll get next turn, and that could mean Abigail, who I'm shilling again because she might make great friends with Janna. Imagine it! Abigail gets a modern-day guide and a friend roughly her age, if a bit older, and she's someone who won't mind her occult habits. Janna gets a friend her age, if a bit younger, a cool person with awesome dark magical powers, and perhaps a tutor on how to get better at magic! Janna really playing into her Occult/Intrigue roll, rather than Kitsune's Occult/Diplo. The Janna-Abigail team up could be legendary, and may allow Study Morganian Teachings as an option, since that's a locked Occult action until we can find an expert. Stronger Janna, more friends, Abigail hired; what more could you want?

If "Contact the Morganians" is an Occult action, and it's not somewhere above 80 in terms of DC, I think we should send Janna to do it.

TheGleeman said:
- While I couldn´t care less about Malfs bruised ego, I´d rather not have another Lovemuffin debacle if I can help it and so we might wanna Wrangle him for a bit - and as some have pointed out, Malf being essentially a magic version of Canon/EARLY-Quest!Doof means that by understanding how to deal with him properly, we stand a chance how to deal with *ourselves* in a roundabout way, which definitely would help Doof become a better Shadowrun-esque player
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An even slightly less neurotic Malf also means he's less of a pain and may be more useful than just a raw Occult Councilor boost.
 
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KnownParadox said:
I've been thinking about who to give Feldrake too, like the QMS or Lizzy, but I've been convinced by the thread otherwise. I think Janna should keep Feldrake on her even when she loses his boost. Sure, he won't be helping her cast magic and thus she doesn't have as much of an Occult stat, sure, it's not the most mechanically sound idea when he could be giving a boost to someone else. But narratively, like, these two are still friends, this isn't him abandoning her, this is him testing his "best apprentice ever" to see if she can truly stand on her own. I think it would be a shame to ditch that by giving him away to someone else, especially since trading him back to Janna might be dicey depending on whom. I think him taking away his powers, and then returning them at a later date would be more satisfying to read. It doesn't make much mechanical sense in the short term, but in the long term, and narratively in general, it makes sense.
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Thats actually a Big Reason why I lean on Lizzy. Lizzy is friends with Janna, so Feldrake will still be able to hang with her regurally, while still doing his best. I also feel Lizzy wouldnt be to beat up over losing Feldrake if we trade back in the future, though I also dont feel like Feldrake will do a tradeback, since by then Janna is her own Wizard.

At the end of the day, it keeps Feldrake and Janna near each other in a way thats still sticking to what Janna needs to Learn.
 
Angelform said:
While I very much hope that the core of our defence will be Doof and the QMS rolling out the On-Ice no-longer-an-inator to one shot the problem that is not something to rely on.
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Don't forget we also have the industrial desiccants as our plan B.
MrHobbit said:
Doof isn't socially astute to get to the bottom of that problem.
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That is why having Lizzy hang out with her. Janna might be more willing to open up to her than Doof.
KnownParadox said:
perhaps a tutor on how to get better at magic!
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I think Janna should study other types of magic rather than just more dark magic. She has already faced one person who was resistant to it (Demona with the spear) and the Sandersons countered several of her spells in this interlude and in Magic and Moolah. Janna should expand her magical skill set rather than further specializing, especially if she wants beat the Sandersons and take back the book. That is why I want her to learn Jo-Lan and Dance Magic.
 
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EyeOfSauron said:
I fear that Star will not take kindly to any character besides Marco, Tom, or Janna finding her.
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We can assign Marco's personal to help Alan.

Alan could use his computer skills to whip up something to help Marco find Star.

It beats Alan doing his ??? personal again. And could help Alan connect with another hero unit and with DEI overall.
 
We definitely need to talk to Mirage.

We need to talk to her to get tips on how to handle Malf and her insights on how to manage someone like how HE used to be.

Plus she is way over due for a conversation.

The dream quest thing said she was basically the one helping to hold everything together when he really wasn't capable of it. She is really important to him.

Side note. We should also talk to the others mentioned in the dream quest. It was brought up that we really should be closer to multiple people but it just hasn't happened. Like Coyote, Technor, Jumba, and such.

Made in Heaven said:
Doofenshmirtz complained as he made for the auditorium doors. "Man, you know. This is the big DEI building, right? I was kind of expecting more of my employees to be in here."



Dreamfinder gave Doofenshmirtz a comforting smile. "Well, this is a mosaic of those who have had a real effect on you, Mr. Doofenshmirtz. I don't imagine a mere employee would necessarily meet the mark."



"Well sure but… I dunno, shouldn't someone like Coyote be in here? He was one of my first employees, and he loves working for me! I think. …I guess I don't really know all that much about him, I mean, we talk about work a few times, but we never really hang out… And Technor! Wait, no, no, we can't be friends, you're my therapist. Uhh… there's that Jumba guy! A fellow Evil Scientist who… uh, he's good at genetics? Wasabi? Wait a minute, I don't even know his real name! I still kinda wanna say 'Joe' though."
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Not that we don't have several talks we need to do already, but it's something to keep in mind.
 
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