I really do enjoy that Negaduck is counted among the the big bads and most dangerous characters in setting.

Like, a bad event roll of like... 13?... just activated a powerful evil wizard guy.

Negaduck was activated from a 3.

I love that.
 
I mean toon physics plus the outright willingness to just murder is uh. Insanely dangerous and unlike doom he does not hide it at all.
 
If for nothing else Negaduck is a bit smarter then most of the other villains. He got fairly simple goals, evil, pain, carnage, and money. Like when they took over Saint Cardras the first time, the rest of the five got parts of the city that was locked away from the world. Negaduck got all the loot. Plus there been a few of his plots where he powers himself up alot.
 
Negaduck will trigger a crisis in the near future.

Negaduck's crisis will occur at least two turns from now, but no more than three.

Negaduck may attack mid-turn.

Negaduck is sending ONE member of the Fearsome Five to your city.

Your territory is not the primary target of Negaduck's greater plan.

You have unlocked various options to prepare for the Crisis.

You do not know who is coming for you.


Corporate actions related to media gain +5 next turn, as Hollywood has taken a small but notable hit to its talent pool.
FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK

Well, at least this solves the problem of what to do with our martial action.

We should try to use Lizzy's personal to dig tunnels. Those may come in handy.

So, does this mean collaborating with Xanatos on Negaduck is off the table?
 
And say whatever you want about Darkwing Duck, the guy was extremely effective, if unconventional, at what he did, and Negaduck is his evil counterpart.
 
Warning: Gigantic Wall O'Text

What I've noticed that nobody is talking about is the possibility that Xanatos might be wrong about having the ability to handle Negaduck. People are talking about spiting him, and people are talking about not getting in his way, but nobody seems to consider the idea that David might be mistaken about his ability to handle or control whatever this plan is, and that not getting involved further might lead to severe problems down the line.

I know that Xanatos has a rep for being super smart, super competant, and super well-informed, and this rep is well earned in both Canon and Doofquest, but he is not by any means infalliable.

In canon, Xanatos served as an immoral disapointment to his father for most of his life, never managed to ultimately sway the Manhatten clan towards his point of view, utterly failed to stop his son from being kidnapped by Oberon, and wound up being responsible for the creation of Thailog, an evil horrorshow that was as strong as Goliath and as smart as David. The last one is important, because 'don't make sentient life unless you're ready for the consequences' is the sort of lesson Mad Science has been learning since Frankenstein, and yet David cooked him up regardless. As TvTropes puts it, "Xanatos wanted someone who was as powerful as Goliath but shared his own, profit-oriented worldview. Because that couldn't possibly backfire."

Spoiler: It did.

In Doofquest, David did 'win' (like the rest of the villians), but he also lost big time (again, like the rest of the villians). As the author of the quest puts it:

"Xanatos sits at the center of a grand web, nigh-untouchable politically, with New York in the palm of his hand. He has eyes on everything, a measure on (apparently) every threat, and plans to keep them all in check. Xanatos has continued to build himself up, worming his way deep into countless places, keeping checks and balances on threats to himself and others, and trying not to allow any more weakness, which to Xanatos includes love. Because not a day goes by that he doesn't remember how much that 'weakness' can hurt."

David messed up. David failed. His wife and son, whom he loved dearly, are both dead. Both of those people were of utmost importantce to David, and for all his power and knowledge and competance, they still died. We don't know to who or what, but they are dead and David is still grieving.

In a non-backstory example, Demona almost got her claws on ultimate power. David set up plots and plans, preparations and precautions, and despite it all, she still almost won. If it hadn't been for the unexpected presence of several card-carrying members of Doofenshmirtz Evil Incorporated's Official Menagerie of Screwball Weirdos™️, humanity as a whole might well have been rendered extinct. She literally had the Spear in her claws and the Crown on her head, and was forcing David to kneel. And he could do nothing.

Let me reiterate that: If Kitsune, one of our agents and someone whom Xanatos did not expect to be in New York City during the crisis, had not assumed Goliath's form long enough for Brooklyn to rebound, David would have lost. His final desperate gamble with Puck was a miscalculation on his part, and it almost killed humanity as a whole.

(Do I think the author would have actually killed humanity? No, but the in-universe risks were still quite high and David still proved himself capable of failure.)

While Demona still lost, and David and co won out, he avoided a horrifying tragedy by a meer hairsbreadth, and the victory was very much bittersweet. The Huntsclan is on the rise. Hate for the paranormal is growing. David doesn't want that, but it's happening anyways. He's trying to squash it, and he is failing.

And now we have the fact that same person, who in this interlude admits to being both tired and overstreched, is trying to set up preperations for the magnum opus of a madman of unparalleled proportions. He doesn't have all the details (he doesn't know what is heading for Danville specifically), he doesn't have enough resources (he's reaching out to the government and other kings) and he is running out of time (as emphasized multiple times throughout the interlude). He is trying to set things up so that the damage is minimized, but he doesn't have the situation under lock and key, and he might be mistaken about his ability to combat things as they currently stand.

Should we bumble around, not knowing what from who and potentially setting this off early? No. But we need to remember that David could be wrong about us potentially making things worse, and that he might need our help more than he actually knows.


TLDR: David is neither infalliable nor omniscient. He's failed in Canon AND in Doofquest. The last big threat we know he fought (Demona) almost won and was only beaten thanks to our interferance. He admits he's tired and overstreched in Sandbagging, which means he might be making mistakes he doesn't know about. Thus, I thing we should investigate and interfere more than he probably wants us to, while still being cautious enough that we don't kick start the party ahead of time.
 
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David messed up. David failed. His wife and son, whom he loved dearly, are both dead. Both of those people were of utmost importantce to David, and for all his power and knowledge and competance, they still died. We don't know to who or what, but they are dead and David is still grieving.
Fox is dead, not Alexander. She was seemingly killed by Oberon, who was eventually killed by David Xanatos himself. Alexander Xanatos still being alive was an important part of Moolah and Magic after all, Owen Burnette couldn't become Puck without protecting him.

But you are right that Xanatos isn't perfect. However I don't think we should be poking much. We are going to have a lot of things to do here. We also can't let the hunt for Star abate.
 
TLDR: David is neither infalliable nor omniscient. He's failed in Canon AND in Doofquest. The last big threat we know he fought (Demona) almost won and was only beaten thanks to our interferance. He admits he's tired and overstreched in Sandbagging, which means he might be making mistakes he doesn't know about. Thus, I thing we should investigate and interfere more than he probably wants us to, while still being cautious enough that we don't kick start the party ahead of time.
The thing is, he's set up the time frame so where we can't. As the QM's said, our (main) options for researching Negaduck are:
You could always just take that risk. But yes, the only way to get garunteed government assistance on researching negaduck and still have time to do something with it was to start now. At this point, your options are:

1. do the government collab and hope you'll have time to make preparations after
2. Do it by yourself and hope it goes well
3. Try and guess who is going to be coming at you and prepare with them in mind, and hope you're not wrong.

The risk with one is that it switches higher chance of getting the information we want with gambling that we'll get it in time that it's actually useful to us.

For 2. Assuming the DC hasn't changed or we're not getting a new action, it's this
[ ] Investigate Negaduck's plan
(Intrigue) DC 160
Fallback Martial DC 200
Our best option is Russ, who rolls +93, assuming both secret keeper and his toon thing proc. I believe (and someone can correct me if I'm wrong) that rounds out to him needing a 67 or higher and like ~30% CoS. So we're either going to have to bite the bullet and use Personal Attention or hope Russ wins the jackpot on this one.

3 is probably feasible, but it's going to require a lot of guesswork about specifics. @Tadpoleon put some really nice guesses/inference down in his post a couple of pages, but even still there's a layer of uncertainty there whenever we do guesswork.

This doesn't include the actual prep actions we have to do, as well.

1. and 2. would give us the bigger picture overall, since it's hard to seperate that in an investigation like this but I'm not sure if we can utilize it in the timeframe that we have. If we did the investigation first, we're still going to have to focus on our preparations next turn, and if we went for a government collab, we're not going to get the information in time that we can use it to interfere with Xanatos's planning.



Do I really think that Xanatos has this in the bag?

No not really. Xanatos is probably aware of this too. It really speaks to how uncertain he is about the outcome. And it's Negaduck, too.

This little tibit is even in his thoughts:
He did not want Heinz Doofenshmirtz poking about the greater fire. The man could easily end up triggering Negaduck before his own preparations were ready, or making more difficult the broader web of preparations already laid in place.
I wish I could do more, but my own efforts are still in progress."

Xanatos is not ready. He's done all this work already and he still isn't done.

Xanatos's fear here isn't (solely) that we'll make things worse, he's concerned because out of all the factions on the board, we are by far the most likely to accidentally poke Negaduck into action before he can complete his actions, and mess up the planning that is already in place.

And so, he sets up this situation, where we have just enough time to dig up information for our own ends, but not enough time to accidentally monkey wrench everything else. Especially since, as he comments, he doesn't know what Negaduck is doing to Danville. That's why he's throwing us on it, so we can do the job for him.

tl;dr Even if we wanted to interfere with what Xanatos is doing (which, given our current lack of information I'm not sure we want to do without signficant cause), the action economy related to this is just enough for us to do our own thing and not much else unless we want to start taking away from our own Negaduck preparations
 
I'm only concerned that Xanatos seems to be putting all of his energy into preparing for Negaduck, and might be getting blindsided by aliens from the moon soon, which would jeopardize his ability to handle both crisis.
 
In a non-backstory example, Demona almost got her claws on ultimate power. David set up plots and plans, preparations and precautions, and despite it all, she still almost won. If it hadn't been for the unexpected presence of several card-carrying members of Doofenshmirtz Evil Incorporated's Official Menagerie of Screwball Weirdos™️, humanity as a whole might well have been rendered extinct. She literally had the Spear in her claws and the Crown on her head, and was forcing David to kneel. And he could do nothing.
I'm still amazed that Demona holding the Spear of the Crucifixion and wearing the Crown of Thorns didn't result in her instantly being incinerated by YHWH, given that she's not a human, not faithful to him, and also was planning to use his relics to harm his chosen.

Sure, the DRM on the Ark of the Covenant was a bit draconian, but 'no safeguards at all' isn't better.


And now we have the fact that same person, who in this interlude admits to being both tired and overstreched, is trying to set up preperations for the magnum opus of a madman of unparalleled proportions.
I'm starting to think that I'm the ignorant one here. I've never watched or read any of the media that Negaduck comes from, but I've pushed back against people treating him like he's the Ultimate Lifeform or something just because overhyping an antagonist can lead to overestimating his capabilities.

And also because I personally have a bad habit of doom spiraling in quests and becoming convinced that X villain or upcoming crisis is unstoppable and we're all going to die.

My current understanding of Negaduck's bona fides:

1. He's basically the Owlman to Darkwing Duck's Batman, complete with being from a mirror universe (and I think he might have been the ruler of said universe or something?)

2. He's managed to rampage across the US for a good bit now, including smashing open Glomgold's for-profit superjail and releasing the inmates. This has gone seemingly unchallenged by the government and other authority figures, but I've chalked that up to Negaduck being one of many many MANY things that need sorted, and he's just big enough of a threat individually that the other movers and shakers have elected to put him on the backburner until they can dedicate proper time and effort toward taking him out.

3. David Xanatos is worried about this psycho to the point where he's willing to be the one who foots the bill for an anti-Negaduck campaign.

My current understanding of his advantages:

1. He's basically the Owlman to Darkwing Duck's Batman. Going off what I know about those two figures, I feel safe in assuming that Negaduck will have a well-formed plan to achieve his goals, with fallbacks and contingencies for the most likely problems that could pop up. Likewise, I'm guessing that Negaduck can be assumed to be highly competent at just about any task he turns his hand to, well-read on his targets and potential obstacles, and probably equipped with a few gadgets.

2. He's a Toon, with all of the Type Green trickery and advantages that entails - hammerspace, functional teleportation, unnatural luck, near-invincibility, etc, etc

3. He's Owlman/Batman levels of smart.

4. I think he might have been shown to have some awareness of the Toon genre conventions, which would mean he's aware of - and can thus plan against - some of the easier anti-Toon methods.

My current understanding of his weaknesses:

1. He's a Toon. Toons are vulnerable to the conventions of the cartoon genre, which can be used to turn their reality/probability-warping powers against them in various ways. Under the right conditions, Toons can also be affected by things that would affect an actual animated cartoon cel or reel - most famously the Dip, which is composed of paint thinners used for cleaning animation cels and is essentially a mythic Bane for them.

2. He's only pragmatic to a point. He has an ego, which can lead him to make mistakes or give enemies opportunities that they wouldn't otherwise get.


Are these accurate?
 
if he dipped Glomgold's boullion it'd tank the market on at least half a dozen precious metals which in and of itself would be a nationwide crisis.
Is the Gold is Glomgold's money bin actually "toon stuff"/whatever? The world isn't entirely toon or even close after all, so I'd suspect a reasonable amount of his money is actually regular old boring matter.

Thanks for the big analysis otherwise though.
 
@General_Urist, thank you for making me aware of @Tadpoleon's post!


Throughout Xanatos's interlude he's fixated on the magical community---if it's weighing on his mind it may be relevant to the upcoming crisis.
The big magical setpiece in NYC is the Magus Bazaar, and Negaduck has already attacked there.
Another option is that he's noticed the same thing I did about the Dip - that the way it works looks a lot like sympathetic magic. Getting actual magic specialists to look into that seems like a smart move.


It makes perfect sense that 2/6 of his planned attacks are dipping toons since "a third of his plan" involves toon relations.

Trying to work out the politics of the most evil hated toons in the world dipping their own kind would make toon-hating bigots' heads explode and Negaduck would probably find that really funny.
That makes me think that Negaduck's target list is a bit more selective than "all of Duckberg/LA". Maybe killing off whatever the equivalent of their slum districts are, or alternatively wiping out the rich people part of town and leaving the rest un-dipped. Whatever the societal division, it would have to be one with a strong geographic element for a crop duster to perform anything like a targeted attack on a given demographic. Maybe arrange for a bunch of non-Toon criminals to take advantage of the attack, since they're immune to the Dip?

(Well, except for the benzene. Benzene, in case you didn't know, is a merciless bastard of a substance. Even back in 1948, the American Petroleum Institute stated that "it is generally considered that the only absolutely safe concentration for benzene is zero". Air dispersal of Dip over an populated region would be devastating just from the things benzene does to living things - aplastic anemia, acute leukemia, and bone marrow failure, just to name a few. I don't know if Negaduck would appreciate the "humor" of using an "anti-Toon" chemical weapon that will actually also kill plenty of humans, just over a longer period of time.

Admittedly, turpentine and acetone aren't exactly hypoallergenic, either. Anyone caught in a cloud of this stuff is going to have a bad time of it.)


I'm guessing he's going to stage some sort of attack on NYC's magical community, likely in the Bazaar itself.
I'm definitely of the opinion that the alleyway massacre you're referencing links to something else, though. 'AARRRGUARGHHHRRA!!!' is, funnily enough, such blatant gibberish that it can't help but be a deliberate reference to something - although again, feel free to let me know if Negaduck has some kind of prior association to that, erm, """"word""""(?)
 
I'm still amazed that Demona holding the Spear of the Crucifixion and wearing the Crown of Thorns didn't result in her instantly being incinerated by YHWH, given that she's not a human, not faithful to him, and also was planning to use his relics to harm his chosen.

Sure, the DRM on the Ark of the Covenant was a bit draconian, but 'no safeguards at all' isn't better.
YHWH showing up in this quest would cause to much confusion, and its based off an old Gargoyles/Spiderman Radio show im pretty sure.

I'm starting to think that I'm the ignorant one here. I've never watched or read any of the media that Negaduck comes from, but I've pushed back against people treating him like he's the Ultimate Lifeform or something just because overhyping an antagonist can lead to overestimating his capabilities.

And also because I personally have a bad habit of doom spiraling in quests and becoming convinced that X villain or upcoming crisis is unstoppable and we're all going to die.

My current understanding of Negaduck's bona fides:
Long story short, Negaduck's an evil version of Darkwing, using fear, gas, gadgets, chainsaws and an absurd durability to win fights. Fightwise he is sort of the stone wall to Shego's glass cannon (Relative to each other of course, they both are fast, strong and durable compared to almost everyone else.; In DVV proper Shego actually has better offenses despite being a tier lower, but pales to Negs in the ability to stay in a fight), refusing to stay down do to a mixture of toon physics and raw determination.

he also is a very good plotter and a complete sociopath, not giving a crap about the wellbeing of his teammates and regularly insulting and belittling people (Though TBF Darkwing does that as well). Because he is so similar to Darkwing however comes his greatest weakness; his unparalleled Ego. He also lacks the same support network as Darkwing, ruling the Five mostly through fear.

He isn't invincible though. While he is very hard to beat in a straight fight it is in theory possible. Especially if his allies go down first.

The primary issue with Negaduck is he does no half measures and is very over the top. If it was just a fight we could in theory eventually overwhelm him, but his plots are designed to cause large scale damage and kill hundreds.
 
Sure, the DRM on the Ark of the Covenant was a bit draconian, but 'no safeguards at all' isn't better.

I tend to assume that if she had really been about to do humanicide (as opposed to her impending self-inflicted defeat), we'd have seen some safeguards kick in at the end of things.

Remember, the Holy Grail is sentient. I'd be very surprised if that's an unique case.

 
Well, let's face it, no matter what Xanatos, said or has planned, there's still a a chance that we topple the Jenga tower; I'm not even talking about doing anything out of spite...

The biggest chaos factor here is our inability to say "no" to rolling for an inator

(and we still have one more turn where Tinkering costs two personals instead of one)

If it hadn't been for the unexpected presence of several card-carrying members of Doofenshmirtz Evil Incorporated's Official Menagerie of Screwball Weirdos™️, humanity as a whole might well have been rendered extinct

... can we make this the official name for our heroes?
 
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I'm still amazed that Demona holding the Spear of the Crucifixion and wearing the Crown of Thorns didn't result in her instantly being incinerated by YHWH, given that she's not a human, not faithful to him, and also was planning to use his relics to harm his chosen.

Sure, the DRM on the Ark of the Covenant was a bit draconian, but 'no safeguards at all' isn't better.
If God went around smiting evils like Demona, the sandersan sisters, Bill, Toffee etc then this would be a very different setting and story.

The Crown and the Spear have a lot of magical power due to the power of collective human belief and mythology. Even if they were the real deal (and not fakes crafted by a master wizard to exploit the myth) they don't necessarily have any special divine blessing or attention from the God due to having contact with Jesus. E.g Jesus' loincloth, sandals, etc probably don't have any super-divine blessings or enchantments from the most high.
 
I'm still amazed that Demona holding the Spear of the Crucifixion and wearing the Crown of Thorns didn't result in her instantly being incinerated by YHWH, given that she's not a human, not faithful to him, and also was planning to use his relics to harm his chosen.

Sure, the DRM on the Ark of the Covenant was a bit draconian, but 'no safeguards at all' isn't better.



I'm starting to think that I'm the ignorant one here. I've never watched or read any of the media that Negaduck comes from, but I've pushed back against people treating him like he's the Ultimate Lifeform or something just because overhyping an antagonist can lead to overestimating his capabilities.

And also because I personally have a bad habit of doom spiraling in quests and becoming convinced that X villain or upcoming crisis is unstoppable and we're all going to die.

My current understanding of Negaduck's bona fides:



My current understanding of his advantages:



My current understanding of his weaknesses:




Are these accurate?
He also stole a pair of Dimensional Scissors from Toffee, so he's capable of actual teleportation on top of toon physics, and there seems to be two of him around somehow. Also, Negaduck operates less like Evil Batman and more like Joker: Hypercompetent, sure, but also chaotic and terrifying.
 
I mean, I definitely wouldn't put it past the metaphysics at play for the Scissors to act like a 'prop' that massively boosts the extent of the relocation shenanigans the Toon Force lets him get away with, a kind of fallback to take the brunt of the suspension of disbelief - especially if he's also using it to play into an 'appearing even when you think you're safe to kill you' role at the time, since that is indeed a pretty powerful horror narrative.
 
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