It wasn't about winning an argument at all, there's really no arguments I will be winning in this issue. I'm just concerned that a significant portion of the playerbase might not see the need to have a goal beyond continuing to do what we're already doing.
I mean, we do have goals, the thread is just pathologically incapable of focusing on them for longer than a single turn. Defeating Doom and Tofee are both goals we've put some amount of work into, we just haven't been able to make much progress on them on account of AP hell, dozens of new fires to put out each turn, and our refusal to just get the damn ODI done already.
 
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Wait, that

Well. That's depressing. It makes me all the more certain I want Doof to figure that out, though.
It is fairly depressing, but it's also the natural understanding of what Doof would be in a slightly more realistic world. It's why the idea to me of a fully static Doof is not only uninteresting to me in a main character, but also just... sad. A Doof trapped in the delusions of early PnF forever is... sad.
 
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It is fairly depressing, but it's also the natural understanding of what Doof would be in a slightly more realistic world. It's why the idea to me of a fully static Doof is not only uninteresting in a main character, but also just... sad. A Doof trapped in the delusions of early PnF forever is... sad.
I agree. To makes this composite world of different Disney settings with Shadowrun layered on top of it all work, there needs to be a degree of realism injected into the setting. Which means status quo just won't cut it anymore, especially for Doofenshmirtz as the main protagonist of this story. An unchanging, delusional protagonist surrounded by people who actually do undergo character development is boring.
 
It is fairly depressing, but it's also the natural understanding of what Doof would be in a slightly more realistic world. It's why the idea to me of a fully static Doof is not only uninteresting to me in a main character, but also just... sad. A Doof trapped in the delusions of early PnF forever is... sad.
Indeed. It's worth noting, even in the original show, a show devoted to maintaining the status quo come hell or high water, Doof does change and grow. His relationship with Perry goes from professional to a Nemesis to full-on friendship, quite possibly the only real friend Doof's EVER had, and how Doof understands that relationship changes over time. He knows he wants Perry to stick around, but he starts out often considering forcing Perry to switch to the side of Evil to stay, but, ultimately, he becomes Good instead. Perry helps him repair his relationship with his daughter, and even is the catalyst for the literal "building" of a new family relationship IE Norm. Even in the original show, Doof developed. And now...Well, he's in a world with consequences.
 
Defeating Doom and Tofee are both goals we've put some amount of work into, we just haven't been able to make much progress on them on account of AP hell, dozens of new fires to put out each turn, and our refusal to just get the damn ODI done already.
I'd like to investigate the murderous toon and secure a fair trial for Bonkers. Preferably soon. I'm not as worried as I was before about The Devil giving him bad advice, but I don't think he's prepared for a very unfair trial.

I'd also like to be proactive and secure a Tier 1 Infiltration into NMIEZ soon, giving us time to upgrade it to 3 before the Find Star DC goes down too much.

The way Global Actions work, the DC lowers and lowers until the first turn someone passes it. Unfortunately, even with the Commodore, Toffee matches or exceeds our Intrigue bonuses.
MrHobbit said:
Us, using the Commodore: 18+17+55=90
Toffee: 50+37+22(this could be a trait or a hero)=89/111
What this means is that unless we interfere with Toffee, we're going to be sharing Star at the finish line, since any DC we can beat, he can beat. That can't be good.

Interference DCs are high, but lower by 25 per Tier of Infiltration. If we want to be capable of tripping Toffee at the finish line, we want that DC as low as possible. Won't hurt to get his information on Star, Mewni, and other dimensions as well.

Olivia is the best choice for this. Toffee is a very dangerous person, we really don't want him knowing we're interested in Star until we trip him. She's got a trait that says she can't be traced back to us.

Mr. Valentine: Olivia was able to hide her villainous identity from the greatest detective in the world, aka her husband, for two decades straight. When suffering a critical failure, Olivia never reveals your involvement in the failed scheme; though this does not prevent the action from going horribly wrong in other ways.

Matriarch: Olivia will appreciate actions that give her family reason to pursue her. Assigning Olivia to a criminal action makes it likely that the Commodore or other members of the Dickens will appear as a temporary nemesis encounter.
@Arathnorn, does 'criminal activity' cover corporate espionage? There's an argument to be had that we should put Olivia on Commit Supervillainy so we have a chance to recruit the Commodore, so before I go all in on arguing that it's better to use her on Toffee than on trying to recruit him, I'd like confirmation that they are, in fact, mutually exclusive. Maybe we can get the best of both worlds.

Olivia is a +69 vs Infiltration DC of 125, which means a 56% CoS without modifiers, 94% Bare Failure or higher with Personal Attention and xp.
 
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I'd also like to be proactive and secure a Tier 1 Infiltration into NMIEZ soon, giving us time to upgrade it to 3 before the Find Star DC goes down too much.
In Tier 3 infiltration, you have penetrated the enemy's inner circle of secrets and knowledge. Do note that if a faction has no council-equivalent or is small enough to not need one, this level is impossible. Small or command-focused factions are fundamentally slightly more secure than larger ones. In practice though this level is very hard to reach and its unlikely anyone will manage to do it to you unless you make some ill-thought council choices, especially regarding Opinion.
Realistically we're not getting a Tier 3 infiltration off here. Both due to how Toffee runs his stuff meaning that it is possible that it is mechanically impossible to reach and the sheer DC. Tier 1 infiltration is 125 DC, Tier 2 is 150, and if it exists Tier 3 would be 175.

With personal attention using Olivia tier 1 should be very good odds, Tier 2 is possible but starts to get dicey even with PA, and Tier 3 is very unlikely even with Personal Attention. I'm not saying that trying to get a network set up around Toffee is a bad idea, but we should temper expectations about what can be safely done on this front. (And note that this statement on Olivia pretty much holds with any of our really solid Intrigue units*)
 
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Realistically we're not getting a Tier 3 infiltration off here. Both due to how Toffee runs his stuff meaning that it is possible that it is mechanically impossible to reach and the sheer DC. Tier 1 infiltration is 125 DC, Tier 2 is 150, and if it exists Tier 3 would be 175.

With personal attention using Olivia tier 1 should be very good odds, Tier 2 is possible but starts to get dicey even with PA, and Tier 3 is very unlikely even with Personal Attention. I'm not saying that trying to get a network set up around Toffee is a bad idea, but we should temper expectations about what can be safely done on this front. (And note that this statement on Olivia pretty much holds with any of our really solid Intrigue units*)
Good points, thank you. I hadn't expected the Infiltration DC to rise so much per Tier. Nor considered that Toffee might not have an inner circle. So, expectations tempered. Still, I think we can expect there to be actions we can take with the good-odds Tier 1 Infiltration to lower the DC of Tier 2. Options open up.
 
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Don't forget that Toffee specifically set Demona to the task of hunting down Star.
I'm trying to convince myself that making an evil(?) doppelganger of Demona is not, in fact, the best idea ever.

"Her greatest enemy is in the mirror."

It'll give new meaning to the words self-hatred and self-sabotage, and seems like it would lead to excellent drama. ...Only problem is, it's Demona.

She's not only the best-known to us among Toffee's heros, she's also the most likely hero unit to know everything about the Star Hunt. But she's Demona.

Probably the most self-hating, self-destructive hero, practically evil twin drama bait, but we'd also have all that in our own doppelganger.

She's got excellent stats, and her evil(?) twin would be a credit to our organization... If only she wasn't Demona.
 
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I'm trying to convince myself that making an evil(?) doppelganger of Demona is not, in fact, the best idea ever.

"Her greatest enemy is in the mirror."

It'll give new meaning to the words self-hatred and self-sabotage, and seems like it would lead to excellent drama. ...Only problem is, it's Demona.

She's not only the best-known to us among Toffee's heros, she's also the most likely hero unit to know everything about the Star Hunt. But she's Demona.

Probably the most self-hating, self-destructive hero, practically evil twin drama
bait, but we'd also have all that in our own doppelganger.

She's got excellent stats, and her evil(?) twin would be a credit to our organization... If only she wasn't Demona.
...i would like if we do not help her character development. she doesnt know yet she is her own greatest enemy after all. the doppelganger bot would help her realize that.
 
...i would like if we do not help her character development. she doesnt know yet she is her own greatest enemy after all. the doppelganger bot would help her realize that.
Well it could either make her a better villain or set her down the path of realizing "wait, I'm the problem?"

Also arguing about preventing character development despite all the recent conversations? For SHAME. :p
 
Time to host the Quest on multiple forums?

The Forum-transferal -inator!: you've been stuck in a rut for a while now. Well no longer! You need some fresh air, a change in mentality, and this machine here will give your brain enough of a shake to replace the voices in your head with an entirely new array of opinions and ideas! Roll a d6 to choose between SB, QQ, SA, Fiction Live, r/Doofquest, or /qst/. The entirety of the next turn must be played in that website.

/jk
 
The Forum-transferal -inator!: you've been stuck in a rut for a while now. Well no longer! You need some fresh air, a change in mentality, and this machine here will give your brain enough of a shake to replace the voices in your head with an entirely new array of opinions and ideas! Roll a d6 to choose between SB, QQ, SA, Fiction Live, r/Doofquest, or /qst/. The entirety of the next turn must be played in that website.

/jk

The Forum-transferal -inator! BAD: While the device worked, the voices it brought were…kind of useless?

Roll a d6 to choose between a Facebook moms' group, Twitch chat, VTuber superchats, a Wikipedia edit page, a dead Usenet site, and a group of HAM radio operators. The entirety of the next turn must be played in that environment.

also definite /jk
 
…well, they see there are two options for when you meet your own clone…
...I mean, I suppose Demona is quite practiced at screwing herself over.
The Forum-transferal -inator!: you've been stuck in a rut for a while now. Well no longer! You need some fresh air, a change in mentality, and this machine here will give your brain enough of a shake to replace the voices in your head with an entirely new array of opinions and ideas! Roll a d6 to choose between SB, QQ, SA, Fiction Live, r/Doofquest, or /qst/. The entirety of the next turn must be played in that website.

/jk
Too bad it's a joke, that sounds great. Maybe not SB, though, it's too similar to SV.
 
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We should build a giant robot. This isn't related to anything or current discussion, and can probably safely slotted behind the ODI and our current learning focuses, but I think a giant robot should be up there.

No you misunderstand me, I'm not talking about some paltry Hulkbuster or some Really Really Incredibly Destructive Machine-tier mecha. Something actually impressive, and worthy of glory, put our face on it, pack it with giant speakers, lights, weaponry, weaponized giant speakers, and weaponized lights. If we can make it fly and/or space traversable that'd be a major plus. Or make it also work construction I dunno.

I just think a giant doofmecha wouldn't go amiss.
 
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