Remove ads

DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest

Reader mode
...Ok going through the various Mewman queens, there are 2 that possibly could be missing; since I doubt Toffee would want to resurrect one theres 2 people who are alive with connections to past queens strong enough to want to resurrect them.

The better option for us is Moon raised her mom Comet from the dead. It's still not great; but we can probably reason with Moon and Comet was a fairly good queen. The fact she would fall enough to do Necromancy is the bigger question.

Then there is Solaria the Monster Carver getting raised by Mina Loveberry. This is bad. Very, very bad. For just about everyone. Good news is Solaria isn't completely unreasonable, especially if her daughter or granddaughter are involved. Bad news is Mina is that unreasonable. They're both genocidal maniacs though. I think this one is more likely sadly...
 
Shade31415 said:
I'd argue that while Malf isn't a good hero unit, he's probably the best councillor we have, given that he's the councillor that gives the second highest bonus to the relevant staff and given his trait, narrative relation to Doof, and stat block he's almost certainly built for us to place in the occult seat, especially given the rest of our options to replace him are either better used in other places (Tobe, Janna), aren't options (Kitsune, if we're being technical Tom), or just aren't great fits (Janna again). Plus we're probably not going to get anything on Malf's relative level for the bonus bar a sizable amount of effort, especially given right now we need the +19 to make up the current lack of Doof occult.

So while Malf is sometimes a problem I feel he's at least worth the effort of at least keeping on goodish terms, even if it's mainly about the opportunity cost.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
He probably was built to be the occult councillor. But he was built a long time ago and things change.
He and Doof might be related but they haven't actually had any relations. They haven't interacted significantly since that first interlude where they met. They are alike but not in ways that make them connect with each other. And Doof is growing while Mal is stagnant, a reminder of what Doof used to be.

As to the mechanics, the whole reason Mal is throwing a fit is that we are getting someone better than him. Someone with higher occult. Someone who, as a shy ghost, almost certainly has traits making her a bad fit for field work. But who, as a queen, probably is a good fit for a councillor position.
Mal sees her as a replacement and may well be correct to do so.

As to keeping him happy… how? The only tool I know of for even trying is Doof's chat personal, which is already in hideously high demand.
 
Angelform said:
He probably was built to be the occult councillor. But he was built a long time ago and things change.
He and Doof might be related but they haven't actually had any relations. They haven't interacted significantly since that first interlude where they met. They are alike but not in ways that make them connect with each other. And Doof is growing while Mal is stagnant, a reminder of what Doof used to be.

As to the mechanics, the whole reason Mal is throwing a fit is that we are getting someone better than him. Someone with higher occult. Someone who, as a shy ghost, almost certainly has traits making her a bad fit for field work. But who, as a queen, probably is a good fit for a councillor position.
Mal sees her as a replacement and may well be correct to do so.

As to keeping him happy… how? The only tool I know of for even trying is Doof's chat personal, which is already in hideously high demand.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Angel there is a nasty trend for you to decide something isn't worth it then decide we should just get rid of it instead of trying to work with it. Malf hasn't done anything to warrant getting fired, we don't have anyone to replace him if we do, and we haven't even tried to get his loyalty up. I say we talk to him next turn as our councilor talk; that way we can get his loyalty high enough he won't fall into the negatives.

We also can do some actions to make him happy in the long term that still benefit us, such as study... meat magic... and build him a new Wizards Tower.
 
Penguinbowler said:
Angel there is a nasty trend for you to decide something isn't worth it then decide we should just get rid of it instead of trying to work with it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You are getting increasingly close to personal attack territory. I have as much right to my opinions and preferences as you have to yours.

If you have a problem with this quest giving us the option to fire people take it up with the GMs.

such as study... meat magic... and build him a new Wizards Tower.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
He has not given us any option to study his 'meat magic'. Indeed it is strongly implied (I don't recall if it was outright stated or not) that his magic is as personal and un-replicateable as Doof's inators.
He has a tower. His soul is tired to it and dismantling it will cause him to pass on to the afterlife.

From his comments as a councillor our 'best' option for pleasing him would be to engage in petty destruction that will anger a great many other people. Both within DEI and without.
 
Angelform said:
You are getting increasingly close to personal attack territory. I have as much right to my opinions and preferences as you have to yours.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Not meaning to offend you, just noticing a concerning trend. It's very hard for you to get arguments through to the rest of us when your response is immediately the most extreme option; so I'm worried some actually good ideas might be lost as people naturally push back.

Angelform said:
He has not given us any option to study his 'meat magic'. Indeed it is strongly implied (I don't recall if it was outright stated or not) that his magic is as personal and un-replicateable as Doof's inators.
He has a tower. His soul is tired to it and dismantling it will cause him to pass on to the afterlife.

From his comments as a councillor our 'best' option for pleasing him would be to engage in petty destruction that will anger a great many other people. Both within DEI and without.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean the QMs stated a way to get his votes on something else is to build him a new Wizard Tower when we tried negotiations last round. Write In's are also still a thing, just the game is no longer based around them (Hence the Negotations with the Council that can occur if we ask).

I've actually had some idea's i've been planning on spitballing so might as well ask here to see if this is how we do it.

Hey, what would the councilors opinions be on Studying Meat Magic, casting a curse on a rival (Both Occult), building a Wizard Tower (Either Occult or Stewardship), and studying Cryogenics (Learning) alongside possible DCs and rewards?
 
Last edited:
Angelform said:
He has not given us any option to study his 'meat magic'. Indeed it is strongly implied (I don't recall if it was outright stated or not) that his magic is as personal and un-replicateable as Doof's inators.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean, we have Golumetric Theory as an option (even though it will require negotiating with the council). We heavily suspect it'll allow the Meteorbeast to be trained and in general will open up more Occult actions. If there's anything that would give Malf's magic more of a focus, its probably this.

Since let's look at the occult action descriptions (including Celena who we just did), specifically at some of the vetoes that Malf gives. They have a pretty common theming there.

Hold a Magic seminar: Malifishmirtz: Just let me handle all that. Please. Please. (Veto)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Search for Magical Individuals: Malifishmirtz: What, am I not good enough? You gonna replace me?!?! I bet you already have a cooler ghost lined up, don't you? With plot relevance and everything! (Veto)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Summon Celena: Malifishmirtz: [Trying not to cry] It's fine. It's fine. I'm fine. (Veto)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

All of these are showing cases where Malf wants to be a main source of info for us and wants to be relied on rather than potentially being shoved aside. If we make a point of showing that we're not going to be shoving aside and replacing him, we can at least assuage his concerns most likely even while trying to recruit occult units to reinforce our occult line.
 
Last edited:
Considering the bare fail on repairing the avatar, doing golumetric and reducing the DC on it even further could mean that it's an near auto pass without a hero unit.

Although not for awhile, I think the potential for dance magic, magical specimens (Janus and Ludivine both agree) and maybe leylines would be more important, in addition to finding a 2nd occult unit for nationals.
 
I have not read the HU flavor text in a bit and boy do I regret it because I missed this tidbit.
Made in Heaven said:
Speaking of the unexpected. You aren't quite sure how Gomez got here. Did he sneak in before, during, or after the LOVEMUFFIN purge? He claims to hail from Nova Nizza, a city that mysteriously vanished one day and whose vanishing may have to do with how he can apply mad science to brute force ancient spells and curses.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Gomez got his hometown banished to the Divino Realm!
 
Pawn Lelouch said:
All of these are showing cases where Malf wants to be a main source of info for us and wants to be relied on rather than potentially being shoved aside. If we make a point of showing that we're not going to be shoving aside and replacing him, we can at least assuage his concerns most likely even while trying to recruit occult units to reinforce our occult line.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Except we are shoving him aside. We need more powerful occult heroes, which he will take as a threat. We need people who can tech magic styles, which he can't and thus will take as a threat.
It leaves us in a position where to keep him happy we need to not do things we want to do. How many actions are we willing to sink into massaging his ego?

Lets look at it a different way, how low can we afford to let Mali's Opinion sink? This interlude caused a temporary -5. That negative may well become permanent if we recruit Celena. However that still leaves him at 5 total. Even if he gets the same -5 for other occult recruits we can tank another without problem.

So here is what I propose: We do nothing with Mali.
If he mellows out after a bit of getting used to other occult heroes then great. Posthumous character development for the win.
If he doesn't mellow, but is content to grumble along at neutral Opinion then fine. Non problems can wait till we run out of active problems to deal with.
If he deteriorates with no easy fix in sight then one personal action to get rid of him and one personal action to recruit a less problematic replacement is better than trying to pander to someone who won't get with the program like we tried with LOVEMUFFIN.

Worth keeping in mind that Doof was a member of LOVEMUFFIN until he promoted him self out of it. And Mali is Doof before he won.
 
Angelform said:
Except we are shoving him aside. We need more powerful occult heroes, which he will take as a threat. We need people who can tech magic styles, which he can't and thus will take as a threat.
It leaves us in a position where to keep him happy we need to not do things we want to do. How many actions are we willing to sink into massaging his ego?

Lets look at it a different way, how low can we afford to let Mali's Opinion sink? This interlude caused a temporary -5. That negative may well become permanent if we recruit Celena. However that still leaves him at 5 total. Even if he gets the same -5 for other occult recruits we can tank another without problem.

So here is what I propose: We do nothing with Mali.
If he mellows out after a bit of getting used to other occult heroes then great. Posthumous character development for the win.
If he doesn't mellow, but is content to grumble along at neutral Opinion then fine. Non problems can wait till we run out of active problems to deal with.
If he deteriorates with no easy fix in sight then one personal action to get rid of him and one personal action to recruit a less problematic replacement is better than trying to pander to someone who won't get with the program like we tried with LOVEMUFFIN.

Worth keeping in mind that Doof was a member of LOVEMUFFIN until he promoted him self out of it. And Mali is Doof before he won.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I agree we can probably tank his opinion being low for awhile, at least long enough to replace him if necessary. For instance, now he's tied loyalty wise with Alan.

I think the smart thing to do could be to chat with Russ, Alan, Janus, and Mirage next turn, and wait to take the magic personal until after we've chatted with Malf or Celena so we could potentially upgrade it with a chat to get direct training.

Getting training from Celena directly will probably raise Doof occult more than Malf and Malf training would be more than the basic personal. And Doof raising occult by 10 is like a councilor raising by 20, so it might be worth slightly angering Malf by getting training from Celena. But no matter which side you are on, either pro Celena or pro Malf, waiting one turn to chat with one or the other to upgrade the training is definitely worth it.

Plus, those four chats are all high priority and by getting them all out of the way now, we can focus on all the training personals until they are all done.

Also I like the narrative of Doof trying to reach out to people, and with 4 chances there is a good shot one of them will lead to a solid connection the same way we rolled the Kitsune pact this turn, or maybe could help witth the diplo training by getting more socialization attempts under his belt.
 
Last edited:
KidFromPallet said:
maybe creating a Malfbot body which we then stick the Malfghost in could work?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think the idea has come up before and we got a response along the lines of

"Malfishmertz has his spirit anchored to the castle and is very reluctant to mess with the binding keeping him in the world of the (un)living. Malf's intended narrative/mechanical role is an advisor not an action hero unit."

I wonder if Malf is afraid he'll end up in torture and pitchforks Hell.

Anyway it is worth asking for qm confirmation in case I'm misremembering but I don't have much hope.
 
Last edited:
Angelform said:
Except we are shoving him aside. We need more powerful occult heroes, which he will take as a threat. We need people who can tech magic styles, which he can't and thus will take as a threat.
It leaves us in a position where to keep him happy we need to not do things we want to do. How many actions are we willing to sink into massaging his ego?

Lets look at it a different way, how low can we afford to let Mali's Opinion sink? This interlude caused a temporary -5. That negative may well become permanent if we recruit Celena. However that still leaves him at 5 total. Even if he gets the same -5 for other occult recruits we can tank another without problem.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You're overstating this first section I feel. The only action that might get put off due to trying to assuage Malf's concerns would be the magic seminar, but we have plenty of other options available on par with it as is. Ley lines, tracking the magical creatures, looking through our magic items, Dance Magic, arguably Golumetric, etc. I think staggering things out doesn't have much appreciable harm when looking at our Occult action list.

Where might we end up sidelining Malf out in the long term if his loyalty proves to be too big of a problem to manage to the point he can't be a councilor? Sure, it is in fact quite possible.

Except I don't think we'll be in a position where we can justifiably do that in the short-mid term. Our Occult options at the moment are Russ, Tobe, Kitsune, Janna, Tom, and Marco if we stretch the definitions, alongside the QMS having potential to grow into an occult unit. Russ should be assigned to Intrigue or questing most of the time, Tobe will pinch hit between personals/Occult/Intrigue as need be, Kitsune is pulled between Diplomacy/Occult/Quests, and Janna is stuck between Quests/Personals/Occult. Tom and Marco have limiting factors that make them unreliable and costly to settle in as an occult unit.

Even if we recruit Celena and another occult unit in a heavy recruitment push, we still won't have enough for a proper Occult front line if Malf is removed. Too many of our options are questers, are stuck in personal hell, or are locked in/pinch hit elsewhere. If we want to have occult consistency and ability to actually reach reasonable DCs before Doof can do Occult training, making sure Malf is trustworthy enough to keep around is useful.
 
Last edited:
Nystical said:
I agree we can probably tank his opinion being low for awhile, at least long enough to replace him if necessary. For instance, now he's tied loyalty wise with Alan.

I think the smart thing to do could be to chat with Russ, Alan, Janus, and Mirage next turn, and wait to take the magic personal until after we've chatted with Malf or Celena so we could potentially upgrade it with a chat to get direct training.

Getting training from Celena directly will probably raise Doof occult more than Malf and Malf training would be more than the basic personal. And Doof raising occult by 10 is like a councilor raising by 20, so it might be worth slightly angering Malf by getting training from Celena. But no matter which side you are on, either pro Celena or pro Malf, waiting one turn to chat with one or the other to upgrade the training is definitely worth it.

Plus, those four chats are all high priority and by getting them all out of the way now, we can focus on all the training personals until they are all done.

Also I like the narrative of Doof trying to reach out to people, and with 4 chances there is a good shot one of them will lead to a solid connection.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Maybe the nemesis idea is salvageable. Feldrake seems willing to listen when people try to impart mystical knowledge, at least long enough to get that knowledge out of them, and Janna is much more mellow than either of them but has a mischievous streak nearly as long as Kitsune's, so she'd probably play along with them squabbling over mentoring her. Unlike Celena, Feldrake's disadvantages mean that Malf is a genuine competitor, provided he overcome Feldrake's headstart. Plus, he already managed to finagle an Occult score for Vanessa, so upgrading Janna seems like a logical next step for his narrative arc, given that Norm is only now being addressed as Doof's son.

I do like that 4 Chats idea though. I feel like it has synergy with Try, Try, Try Again and whatever is going on with Kitsune.
 
So I just went back and read the Celena section and I can't remember:

Made in Heaven said:
"A while ago, Doof said something about a 'Dream Queen' coming for someone. Apparently he heard that from a drug-addled coyote, so I'm… 50/50 on trusting it. But could you do a quick reading about that?"

"Very well." Celena replied. She cut the cards three times in five seconds, sent several of them flying through the air, snatched four of them, reshuffled, and then did the same thing again three more times.

"Hrm. Do the numbers '22-26' mean anything to you?"

"Neeeeope. Not a thing, why?"

"Well, the cards as I'm drawing them make no sense cosmologically except for their order in the Tarot, which gives the numbers 'twenty two to twenty six', over and over again. You're sure this has no significance to you?"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Did we ever figure this out?

Penguinbowler said:
Ok I was gonna do a large analyze, and outside of Tobe teaching Tom the true meaning of friendship, something in particular caught my attention.

8? Thats... not mathamatically correct. Celena makes 9, but, if Eclipsa, Moon and Star are alive there should be one more.
1. Skywynne, 2. Jushtin, 3. Solaria, 4. Festivia, 5. Dirhennia, 6. Crescenta, 7. Rhina, 8. Celena, 9. Estrella, 10. Comet.

A queen is missing. A Mewman Queen's ghost isn't where its supposed to be. Maybe she didn't count Jushtin; but I feel she would call that out.

Eclipsa, Moon, and Star are all likely Alive at the very least.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Why those ones in particular? I mean, aren't there like two dozen more?

Though, I am curious about what the others are thinking

Nystical said:
Considering the bare fail on repairing the avatar, doing golumetric and reducing the DC on it even further could mean that it's an near auto pass without a hero unit.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Dumb idea: Give Malfishmertz the Avatar as a body
 
The Richmaster said:
Why those ones in particular? I mean, aren't there like two dozen more?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
These are the Queens in the realm of Magic and who use the current Book of Magic. Skywynne's mother, Lyric, was a terrible queen who let much of their history burn so she could save books related to fashion. None of the previous Queens are... preserved in such a way.

There is a chance that all the dead queens are still dead, and Celena just refused to count the male Jushtin, but also a chance someone like Solaria has been revived, so until we can talk with Celena to get the scoop of her ancestors and kid and grandkid, we should be somewhat suspicous.
 
SpiderWizard said:
Talk to Malfishmertz and let him know we aren't going to get rid of him. He's Ohana and Ohana means family. Family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
/looks at the years Doof spent denying Norm was his son.
/looks at the many years Doof spent hating Roger.
/looks at Doof's ex-wife's complete absence.
/looks at Doof and Roger's relations with their parents.

Family… might not be the best foundation to try and build upon.
 
Made in Heaven said:
"That's right." Celena agreed even as she shuffled. "Though the demon is a somewhat worrying intensifier, it doesn't mean you Tom, and it's almost certainly not a signifier of actual death and destruction. It just means there was a major change in the past. It should be fine, as long as you don't have the Septarian next." Celena said, flipping over the Septarian next.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Celena is going to Russ' Seminar on tempting fate I see
 
Angelform said:
Except we are shoving him aside. We need more powerful occult heroes, which he will take as a threat. We need people who can tech magic styles, which he can't and thus will take as a threat.
It leaves us in a position where to keep him happy we need to not do things we want to do. How many actions are we willing to sink into massaging his ego?

Lets look at it a different way, how low can we afford to let Mali's Opinion sink? This interlude caused a temporary -5. That negative may well become permanent if we recruit Celena. However that still leaves him at 5 total. Even if he gets the same -5 for other occult recruits we can tank another without problem.

So here is what I propose: We do nothing with Mali.
If he mellows out after a bit of getting used to other occult heroes then great. Posthumous character development for the win.
If he doesn't mellow, but is content to grumble along at neutral Opinion then fine. Non problems can wait till we run out of active problems to deal with.
If he deteriorates with no easy fix in sight then one personal action to get rid of him and one personal action to recruit a less problematic replacement is better than trying to pander to someone who won't get with the program like we tried with LOVEMUFFIN.

Worth keeping in mind that Doof was a member of LOVEMUFFIN until he promoted him self out of it. And Mali is Doof before he won.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Just letting Malf's opinion of us sink into the negatives seems like a questionable plan to me. There's a very real risk that angering him and then trying to get his opinion back up will be significantly harder than bonding with him first, as being angry at us is liable to make bonding with him harder.

Furthermore, since he's apparently afraid of being sidelined, bonding with him first may well assuage those fears, meaning we might be able to dodge the loyalty malus to begin with and enjoy the benefits of him being at higher loyalty for the same amount of effort it would have taken to bring him back up to zero.

As for getting rid of Malf, he has a high enough Occult score that unlike LOVEMUFFIN, he's actually a serious threat if we make an enemy of him. Also, there's not much we can do to him short of banishing him to the afterlife (or worse, moving his castle back to Drusselstein), and that's an incredibly extreme measure considering we've let more reprehensible enemies live.

Finally, doing nothing to fix the problem until it became a big issue is exactly what we did with LOVEMUFFIN- for quite a while, we weren't willing to expend any effort beyond assigning LOVEMUFFIN to actions we thought they'd enjoy, which cost us absolutely nothing. I'd rather head off the problem we can see brewing this time.
 
DrVillainous said:
Finally, doing nothing to fix the problem until it became a big issue is exactly what we did with LOVEMUFFIN- for quite a while, we weren't willing to expend any effort beyond assigning LOVEMUFFIN to actions we thought they'd enjoy, which cost us absolutely nothing. I'd rather head off the problem we can see brewing this time.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
TBF lovemuffin was designed to be as unreasonable as possible in their prefrences to teach us how managing loyalty. Malf isn't as bad, especially since he is on council.

Going over his prefrences, the 2 best ways to gain loyalty with him is petty vengence, and studying weird magic. Golumetric is a good start, as is Meat.
 
Penguinbowler said:
TBF lovemuffin was designed to be as unreasonable as possible in their prefrences to teach us how managing loyalty. Malf isn't as bad, especially since he is on council.

Going over his prefrences, the 2 best ways to gain loyalty with him is petty vengence, and studying weird magic. Golumetric is a good start, as is Meat.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Another good way to gain loyalty with him might be to have Doof chat with him and study basic magic in the same turn. He wants to be responsible for teaching us about magic, so let's bond with him by learning some magic.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top