Silent Grove, I have no idea where a lot of these idea come from. Like, why is Goofy especially dangerous to Doof if he's somehow antagonized? He's a basically benevolent person; he's very unlikely to straight-up murder someone even if he gets very, very angry at them.

I also think your three-point scale for "chance of antagonizing this hero unit" is a gross oversimplification.

For example, Ghengis Khan is loyal to us because we're a lineal descendant of his and resurrected him from the dead, and even summoned Mongol warriors from out of time to be his friends. And his standard of "excessive evil, gone too far," well, he is literally Genghis Khan, we could be stacking up the skulls of our enemies in pyramids and saving the choicest skulls for drinking mugs and he'd say something like "well, talk shit, get hit." We could far more easily antagonize someone like Wendy Wower and Alan Bradley, who have some moral standards and who doesn't owe us their entire existence... but you put a '1' in that column for all three characters.

Likewise, I'm not sure how we'd even go about antagonizing Tom by "going too far."
 
The scale is garbage derived from imagining +11 actions going +12 different ways. But sometimes when I'm bored I like making tables in excel. Maybe a better way of defining chance of upsetting would be the likelihood of 1 bad day collapsing the house of cards? I'm not giving this as much thought as is probably warranted.
 
The scale is garbage derived from imagining +11 actions going +12 different ways. But sometimes when I'm bored I like making tables in excel. Maybe a better way of defining chance of upsetting would be the likelihood of 1 bad day collapsing the house of cards? I'm not giving this as much thought as is probably warranted.
Yeah, but the problem is that you've rated a whole lot of characters as "1s" who aren't on remotely the same level of "willingness to turn against us," and who don't have the same thresholds of "what would it take to turn them against us."

And, of course, the part where there's no clear metric.

Like, if you wanted to do this, you'd systematize it. Make a rubric. Let's see...



Chance of Antagonization

This assesses the likelihood that a hero will adopt a negative view of DEI, Dr. Doof, or both, such that they would be motivated to leave DEI or to attack us in some way- which of these things they would do would be a function of other numbers. CoA is determined by evaluating the following parameters on a 0-2 point scale and adding the results:

- Possession of dangerous secrets (on either side) that would undermine trust.
- Likelihood of us taking courses of action that would antagonize them.
- Likelihood of reconciliation if plausible secrets are revealed or likely courses of action are pursued.
- Likelihood that the hero will respond to broken trust by leaving or by attacking.
- Possession of a 'Plan B' for what to do after leaving the company
- Lack of special ties to Dr. Doofenshmirtz

...

For example, no secrets we possess or are likely to possess are likely to antagonize Ghengis Khan, and we're fairly sure he has no secrets that would remotely justify us firing him. ZERO. We are vanishingly unlikely to do anything that would specifically antagonize him. ZERO. Genghis Khan is relatively likely to at least consider talking things out with us in the event that we do something that upsets him. ONE. Genghis Khan has a long history of responding to betrayal with maximum overkill; ask Jamukha and the Khwarazam Shah how that turned out. TWO. Ghengis Khan has no obvious "Plan B" for what to do with his life if he weren't working for us, but he's an atomic-powered low level superhero, a tactical genius, and naturally gifted at wilderness survival, so he could probably figure something out. ONE. Genghis Khan feels closer personal ties to Dr. Doofenshmirtz than to any other man living. ZERO lack of special ties.

Total: 4/12. This is about as low as "likelihood of antagonism" can be without the character being a total milquetoast or a totally abject and fanatical follower.

...

Janus Lee has dangerous secrets in that he is apparently plotting to replace humanity with reptiloids of some kind. TWO. It is very unlikely that we will specifically start shit with him, but if Plan Reptiloid ever achieves fruition in the long term, we're gonna be trying to stop him, which would in turn antagonize him, technically... eventually. ONE, because it's a long term issue. It is vanishingly unlikely that Janus would forgive us or reconcile with us, unless we peacefully talked him out of the whole Reptiloid plan, which is not inconceivable I suppose? ONE. If Janus decides we are an enemy, he's gonna start gunning for us if he has the resources to do so, and if he doesn't, he'll leave. He's not gonna stand around waiting. TWO. He probably doesn't have much of a Plan B, because singlehandedly pursuing a massive genetics program to replace humanity is not the kind of thing you can do without resources. On the other hand, Janus has some very marketable skills. ONE. Janus feels no special ties to Dr. Doof that I know of. TWO.

Total: 9/12. This is so high that we should probably treat a clash with him as inevitable, once his own mad science schemes come to fruition.

...

Phineas and Ferb- well, they have no secrets that would offend us, but we killed Perry the Platypus and they'd be very hurt if they found out about that. TWO. It is moderately likely that we'll do something new that they're just not okay with, but Doof is actually a pretty good guy so it's far from certain. ONE. It is very likely that Phineas and Ferb would at least be willing to talk to us if we did something they don't like or if they found out about Perry, and Doof feels genuine grief and remorse about killing Perry, and P&F are naturally quite forgiving people ready to believe the best of others, so we'd have a good chance of talking them into forgiving us. ZERO. If we did break their trust, and they couldn't get over it, they'd definitely leave. TWO. They have no trouble figuring out how to make their own fun or find something else to do with their time. TWO. And they frankly have no special ties to us other than the Mysterious Force, so TWO.

Total: 9/12. This is for very different reasons... but we should probably treat a confrontation with Phineas and Ferb over Perry's death as dramatically inevitable, sooner or later.

...

Wendy Wower- We have no villainous secrets that would necessarily drive her away, but she's not entirely unscrupulous and we've done some shit now and then. ONE. We're very unlikely to do anything that would seriously offend her, and we've already taken the precaution of giving her credit for a major advance instead of stealing it, and we're likely to keep giving credit in the future. ZERO. If we do offend Wendy, she'll probably at least be open to giving us a chance to make amends. ONE. If we offend her, she's very likely to respond by leaving the toxic work environment, much as she did at the end of her partnership with Trengrove. TWO. She has no clear 'Plan B,' though her reputation as an AI researcher would probably carry her into some kind of employment. ONE. She feels real gratitude to Dr. Doof for having her genius appreciated. ONE.

Total: 6/12. Wendy is unlikely to turn against us, but isn't what you'd call super-loyal.
 
Went trawling through the Doofquest Cards, and I'm gonna toss out some older names we may have forgotten about to consider for the last slot in the black ops team:

Spydah (can be Lizzy's friend?); Candella (one of Jumba's/5 star martial); Warren Peace(we're one of the only people who know what actually happened at the Gala, so Warren would be a bit of a pity hire); Motor Ed (for car-related actions and extreme-driving the super car); The Glooms (for Occult Firepower); Go-Go Tomago (we haven't seen hide nor hair of her); and last but definitively least, Frugal Lucre (do we need a Steward-specialist on a black ops team?)

Nothing against Red Feather, but she doesn't seem to fit the otherwise chaotic and hammy nature of Technor, Mez and Juniper.

Edit: Actually, you know who I'd really want as a black ops Hero Unit? Old Norm Head. Fitted to a new body that's not blatantly associated with DEI, of course.
 
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Didn't the Glooms wind up with Xanatos?

I'd like to send Frugal off to Glomgold. I feel like he'd fit in better over there. Wait, I have a dim recollection of him ending up with Glom.
 
Janus Lee has dangerous secrets in that he is apparently plotting to replace humanity with reptiloids of some kind. TWO. It is very unlikely that we will specifically start shit with him, but if Plan Reptiloid ever achieves fruition in the long term, we're gonna be trying to stop him, which would in turn antagonize him, technically... eventually. ONE, because it's a long term issue. It is vanishingly unlikely that Janus would forgive us or reconcile with us, unless we peacefully talked him out of the whole Reptiloid plan, which is not inconceivable I suppose? ONE. If Janus decides we are an enemy, he's gonna start gunning for us if he has the resources to do so, and if he doesn't, he'll leave. He's not gonna stand around waiting. TWO. He probably doesn't have much of a Plan B, because singlehandedly pursuing a massive genetics program to replace humanity is not the kind of thing you can do without resources. On the other hand, Janus has some very marketable skills. ONE. Janus feels no special ties to Dr. Doof that I know of. TWO.

Total: 9/12. This is so high that we should probably treat a clash with him as inevitable, once his own mad science schemes come to fruition.
I very much appreciate such a rubric, but the specific argumentation in Janus's case is flawed, In canon he was plotting to replace humanity with reptimanity, but in Doofquest he is only confirmed to have "an unspecified transhumanist agenda, that may or may not involve reptiles or other improvements to the human genome" also working with Jumba may allow him to go about his transhumanist dreams in a manner that does not inevitably lead to conflict with DEI, such as "cure genetic diseases"
 
Didn't the Glooms wind up with Xanatos?

I'd like to send Frugal off to Glomgold. I feel like he'd fit in better over there. Wait, I have a dim recollection of him ending up with Glom.
Xanatos hires them on a mercenary basis, not fulltime employment. At least, he hadn't hired them fulltime the last time they showed up.
 
[X] Plan: Bad Idea
-[x] Martial: Technor
-[x] Diplomacy: Technor
-[x] Stewardship: Technor
-[x] Intrigue: Technor
-[x] Learning: Technor
-[x] Occult: Technor

There, I assigned one hero to each category.
 
Last seen working for Xanatos during Twelfth Night.
That's true, but it seemed like a fairly short-term mercenary hire from what we saw, we don't know he's in David's permanent employ.

I do agree that Red Feather is a poor fit for the hammy Technor black ops group. Vladimir Keitawa remains my top choice but there are definitely a lot of other good options in the cards, including a lot of the ones you mentioned.
 
You know what, I believe most people are already planning for Doof realizing that Norm/CJ are potentially sapient, this next turn might be a good chance for Doof to talk to the Old Norm Head as well.

The Old Norm Head, appears to be more sapient than Norm was, albeit in a more "constantly critiquing Doof" kind of way.

Considering Monogram's constant critique of Doof came up as a bonus to stats, perhaps digging up the Old Norm Head would bring a similar benefit, without the Monogram-ness.

Do Some Introspection About Norm
Spend time with Princess Java
Dig up the Old Norm Head
Chat with Mirage


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cBPHuI1xTs

If he doesn't want to join us, It lets us deal with the "some AI might not want to join us" thing earlier on in the process, and if he does want to join us, could be the AI rights figurehead, as he hasn't done anything illegal unlike Technor.

Plus, imagine Wendy's reaction when we had a sapient Normbot prototype just in a storage closet somewhere from decades earlier. "Oh yeah, I forgot about that"
 
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Janus Lee has dangerous secrets in that he is apparently plotting to replace humanity with reptiloids of some kind. TWO. It is very unlikely that we will specifically start shit with him, but if Plan Reptiloid ever achieves fruition in the long term, we're gonna be trying to stop him, which would in turn antagonize him, technically... eventually.
I'm pretty sure he, initially at least, wanted people to voluntarily upgrade themselves, which I don't think we'd have a problem with.

But in general, I really like this system. Consider doing it for other hero units?
 
I thought the deal with Janus was he only went all lizardry when an experiment he did on himself went wrong and he went crazy?
 
I'll throw up a post shilling for Ed a little bit because he's my favorite pick, particularly now that Janus is on the council and we can finally expect to take our dangling vehicle actions. Here's his card:

🎭 MOTOR ED
Kim Possible
Martial: ✪✪
Diplomacy: ✪
Stewardship: ✪
Intrigue: ✪
Learning: ✪✪✪✪
Hard-rocking mechanical genius that's too wild to chain down. He'll never drop the mullet. Seriously.

He has 4-star Learning, but he's really specialized in vehicles, so in practice we can expect him to be an Learning Hero like Wendy, a decent score backed up by a humongous bonus to his own specialty.

Some characteristics of his beyond the stats:
- Wild and Destructive (has no problems breaking the law);
- Drakken's cousin;
- A (very) unrequited crush on Shego;
- Canonically can work on spacecraft;
- Skilled enough race car driver to drive said hypersonic modified spacecraft (his bonus to vehicles probably applies to driving them);
- Can reverse-engineer advanced robotics on any kind of vehicle (i.e. a wheelchair) just from seeing it used in combat;
- Skilled tactician and decent hand-to-hand fighter;
- His only goal is to build and drive fast vehicles (loyalty is likely easy to manage);
- Does air guitar solos when excited (one of his biggest maluses)
 
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Janus Lee has dangerous secrets in that he is apparently plotting to replace humanity with reptiloids of some kind. TWO. It is very unlikely that we will specifically start shit with him, but if Plan Reptiloid ever achieves fruition in the long term, we're gonna be trying to stop him, which would in turn antagonize him, technically... eventually. ONE, because it's a long term issue. It is vanishingly unlikely that Janus would forgive us or reconcile with us, unless we peacefully talked him out of the whole Reptiloid plan, which is not inconceivable I suppose? ONE. If Janus decides we are an enemy, he's gonna start gunning for us if he has the resources to do so, and if he doesn't, he'll leave. He's not gonna stand around waiting. TWO. He probably doesn't have much of a Plan B, because singlehandedly pursuing a massive genetics program to replace humanity is not the kind of thing you can do without resources. On the other hand, Janus has some very marketable skills. ONE. Janus feels no special ties to Dr. Doof that I know of. TWO.

Total: 9/12. This is so high that we should probably treat a clash with him as inevitable, once his own mad science schemes come to fruition.
It's quite simple.

Janus turns Doof into a lizard.
Doof trains to be a wizard.

Then we will become a lizard wizard and can start planning to steal Toffee's magic immortality.

I'll throw up a post shilling for Ed a little bit because he's my favorite pick, particularly now that Janus is on the council and we can finally expect to take our dangling vehicle actions. Here's his card:

🎭 MOTOR ED
[TR]
[TD]
Kim Possible
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Martial: ✪✪
Diplomacy: ✪
Stewardship: ✪
Intrigue: ✪
Learning: ✪✪✪✪[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
Hard-rocking mechanical genius that's too wild to chain down. He'll never drop the mullet. Seriously.

He has 4-star Learning, but he's really specialized in vehicles, so in practice we can expect him to be an Learning Hero like Wendy, a decent score backed up by a humongous bonus to his own specialty.

Some characteristics of his beyond the stats:
- Wild and Destructive (has no problems breaking the law);
- Drakken's cousin;
- A (very) unrequited crush on Shego;
- Canonically can work on spacecraft;
- Skilled enough race car driver to drive said hypersonic modified spacecraft;
- Can reverse-engineer advanced robotics on any kind of vehicle (i.e. a wheelchair) just from seeing it used in combat;
- Skilled tactician and decent hand-to-hand fighter
Not sure for Black ops.

But hiring him for joining a potential future Jumba/Janus heroball could be interesting, as he is a wild and destructive scientist like Jumba (and Janus?) and shares a learning specialty with Janus.
 
Not sure for Black ops.

But hiring him for joining a potential future Jumba/Janus heroball could be interesting, as he is a wild and destructive scientist like Jumba (and Janus?) and shares a learning specialty with Janus.
While there is a lot of synergy there as both Jumba and Janus are crazy-but-brilliant supervillains in love with their tech, and I could see him amusingly arguing with Jumba over their appreciation for different styles of Rock'n'Roll, Ed is more directly destructive compared to Janus and Jumba's more secondhand brand of chaos.
 
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Sry for dropping off the grid for a bit, but my "weekend PC" decided to shit the bed for a bit, so I was stuck with my phone and I´d rather not write big recaps on that atuocorrupting thing.

So, let me see...

Kitsune quirked an eyebrow. "How convenient." She tilts her head, expression inscrutable. "Are you familiar with the name Oberon?"

Max's face went slack as all available focus went to remembering the recent past. "Oh yeah. He was like, your last Emperor Thing."

"Of a kind. He ruled for over a millenia. Ancient and omnipotent."

"Hold on. I'm still with you, but you're gonna have to use smaller words."

"His power is to that within your wand as yours is to an ordinary mortal."

"Cool got it, super strong. How'd he die then?"

"He was stabbed through the heart by David Xanatos, and his head was cut from his shoulders. Killed by a mortal man with an iron spear."

Max came up short. "Oh. That's pretty heavy."

...You can say that again, pal...

So that´s how Xanatos "Won" despite supposedly being widowed and left a single parent for a quarter-Fae son - *by killing the sonufabitch who most likely did the deed (if Fox actually did die and this story isn´t just some elaborate smokescreen) and make his Queen call off the attack on NYC* (although I am still left wondering how the fuck David managed to patch up the kind of Masquerade breach "The Gathering" would realistically qualify as.

That means that we (as questers) know the following things to have diverged from Canon:

- Goliath and Eliza died in a fight against Demona, which she pinned on Tony friggin Dracon because *of course she is being blame-shifty again*
- This caused the Manhattan clan to fracture a bit, with Brooklyn starting to tail Demona in the hopes of tempering her psycho tendencies unsuccessfully
- Without the Manhattan Clan coming to his aid, Xanatos´ fight to protect his family from Oberon went noticeably worse, to the point that Fox supposedly *died* and Xanatos outright *decapitated* Oberon in a fit of grief and drive off the Fae to reform under Titanias rule.
- Despite everything, David managed to keep a lid on the Masquerade and proceeded to solidify his grip over the upper East coast while fighting off Demona and Thailog
- The "Upheaval" happens and this Gargoyles timeline is awkwardly fused together with myriad other "Bad Guy won" timelines from more modern Disney properties.

...Yeah, despite everything goign wrong for him, David *deserves* to have Won there - both because it cuts him some slack and because it leaves us with a very approachable prspective future true ally on the East Coast

Point of contact with the Magus Bazaar established!
Patrician of the Magus Bazaar is Max Russo- a 17 year old boy and blatant puppet.
Two main factions vie for control of the Bazaar- the Morganian sorcerers, represented by the musclebound Marrok, and the traditional protectors of magical kind, represented by Luong Lao Shi.

EDIT: I closed the vote by mistake. The vote is still open!

Dang, I hoped that Kitsune rolling well would give us an actual in to the Magical Underground instead of "only" an overview of the political climate - not that I am complaining though.

So the "Ruler" of Magical NYC is an obvious puppet - any guesses as to whom, guys (dunno if I´d like or dislike David being it)?

Also, there is some kind of "cold" war goign on between the Evil Western magicians of the Morganites (that idiot Horvarth is one of them, right?) and more Eastern "traditionalist practicioners".

Honestly, I´d prefer supporting Lao Shi because I just don´t like Horvaths kind.
 
Frugal Lucre (do we need a Steward-specialist on a black ops team?)
Even if we did, literally anyone is better than this annoying arse. Not just because he is dreadfully unsuited for combat, but also because he has a personality and preference that would make people want to toss him in the baking soda volcano.
 
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