DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest

[Murazor]

It's a good thing this setting isn't solely Gargoyles, then. Any other Disney products do something with this?

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Not that I've been able to find.

For that matter, I haven't been able to find anything of note that would suggest automatic instant doom connecting the Longinus with any of the objects in Notre Dame's treasury, like the Crown of Thorns or one of the nails of the crucifixion.

I have been looking at Kundry, a mad witch cursed with immortality from Wagner's Parsifal opera, which features the Holy Lance very prominently, because frankly that character is giving me strong Demona vibes, but I haven't been able to link the dots if there is a clear connection there.

 

[MasterG]

It's a good thing this setting isn't solely Gargoyles, then. Any other Disney products do something with this?

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The only thing that I remember that made an allusion to the Spear of Destiny and was connected to Gargoyles that could fit into this description would be the Atlantean Spear from Disney's Atlantis the Lost Empire.

Supposedly, there was going to be a crossover between Gargoyles and the planned Atlantis series that would have had the Gargoyle species somehow be connected to the Atlanteans, with Demona trying to steal a self-repairing Gargoyle statue powered by an Atlantean Crystal.

That seems to be one of the only possibilities for a Disney-centric Longinus

 

[Murazor]

That seems to be one of the only possibilities for a Disney-centric Longinus

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The Team Atlantis Gungnir got called Spear of Destiny for some reason, but it has been shot down in the discord. Explicitly.

 

[MasterG]

The Team Atlantis Gungnir got called Spear of Destiny for some reason, but it has been shot down in the discord. Explicitly.

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Uh, I thought it was weird that nobody had mentioned it yet but I guess that explains it. Thanks for clearing that up!

 

[nwish425]

Well yeah. I'm sceptical any of the holy artifacts are actually from where they say they are (or any artifact in general). What they are like in the real world is irrelevant, since fiction tends to have "sacred artifacts" be very much a real deal with real power.

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There are many legitimate artifacts in the Catholic Church's possession, like the remains of saints which are generally dug up and moved to a chapel to be venerated and preserved. The same goes for items of importance to said saint, such an items they cared deeply about or cloth from their clothes.

 

[Murazor]

Well, in any case, other things of interest:

-Spydah is now working for Xanatos and likely has 33 Intrigue, which is extremely respectable.
-The Pack may or may not keep working for Demona when the dust from this settles, but they are probably not kindly disposed towards us.
-Kitsune is now in the same room as Puck. Hopefully, things will develop in a way that won't torpedo our relations with Xanatos.
-Demona rolls Intrigue 34, which is pretty solid, and has somebody with Intrigue 28, which is still solid (exactly the same Intrigue as Mirage, actually). Signs point towards this being the Iago personality of Coldstone.
-Huntsmaster appears to have a couple of Martial relevant traits, presumably related to conflict with non-human enemies.
-Not sure if the +30 in Demona's personal Martial rolls is supposed to be a trait or represent Brooklyn. Could be either, I think.
-Xanatos still has some additional support coming in. Could be MacBeth, could be the Canmores, could be a third party... Definitely not Horvath, since it is confirmed that he is still being confounded by all that modern city planning.

 

[JmonsterNEO]

POINT OF REFERENCE FOR HOW BS THESE THINGS CAN BE IN POPULAR CULTURE!!!!

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And that was from one of the nails that pierced Christ's body. Demona's got the spear that killed him. And I specifically referenced Hellsing Ultimate Abridged.

It will be a deep pain. And hey! It'll get worse too!.

 

[bigking321]

Demona's got the spear that killed him.

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Incorrect actually. He died a little before then. The spear was thrust into him to check if he was dead or not.

They were going to break his legs to ensure death by nightfall but he died before that point and the spear was to make sure he wasn't just passed out or faking.

Is that why the spear keeps showing up in fiction? People think it killed christ and has special powers because of it?

I never made that connection before. I just thought the spear being there at all was why people gave it significance.

 

[Lord Ultimus]

Incorrect actually. He died a little before then. The spear was thrust into him to check if he was dead or not.

They were going to break his legs to ensure death by nightfall but he died before that point and the spear was to make sure he wasn't just passed out or faking.

Is that why the spear keeps showing up in fiction? People think it killed christ and has special powers because of it?

I never made that connection before. I just thought the spear being there at all was why people gave it significance.

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It's more that it wounded him. Like, this weapon pierced God, depending on your interpretation of Christ. If it wasn't special before, it certainly is now.

 

[TheGleeman]

It's more that it wounded him. Like, this weapon pierced God, depending on your interpretation of Christ. If it wasn't special before, it certainly is now.

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Tbf, by incarnating into The Son, He got depowered a lot - so while still rather impressive, the Lance nicking Jesus might have simply amounted to Achilles getting stabbed in his heel.

 

[Sinsystems]

On the subject of the Huntsclan, if we are lucky they will notice Toffee or something and start causing him problems rather than us or anyone we actually like.

 

[MrHobbit]

Tbf, by incarnating into The Son, He got depowered a lot - so while still rather impressive, the Lance nicking Jesus might have simply amounted to Achilles getting stabbed in his heel.

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That, I don't think any Denomination believes that. Certainly not the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox, or Trinitarians in general... Or non Trinitarians because they generally don't think that God incarnated in the Son. There might be some obscure Protestant group?

It's special because it is a Relic of the Crucifixion. The Roman Catholic Church has three classifications. The First Class is anything directly involved in Christ's life, or the bodies of the Saints. Second Class relics include items that Saints used. Third Class relics include anything that has touched the previous two classes, like say a piece of cloth. Bone fragments of Saints are often implanted altars for Catholics and Eastern Orthodox. I can't say anything about Lutherans, Oriental Orthodox, or the Church of the East, but I suspect that it is the case.

 

[Argidoll]

By the way, does anyone know where that list of DVV Space properties is? I know it was posted a few hundred pages ago but I don't remember unique key words to isolate the post. I remembered and rewatched a Disney series that I think would make a pretty interesting optional inclusion for the general DVV Space module (meaning not our Gridlocked-Space fusion) and want to check if it is already in or not.

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Here's the general DVV google drive.

 

[sunsunsunsunsun]

Tbf, by incarnating into The Son, He got depowered a lot - so while still rather impressive, the Lance nicking Jesus might have simply amounted to Achilles getting stabbed in his heel.

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That, I don't think any Denomination believes that. Certainly not the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox, or Trinitarians in general... Or non Trinitarians because they generally don't think that God incarnated in the Son. There might be some obscure Protestant group?

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It also just doesn't make sense! He's "God". If he doesn't want to be depowered during his incarnation thing, he doesn't have to be, he claims to have created all that is, which means he made the rules for incarnating. That just doesn't make any sense.

 

[Lord Ultimus]

That, I don't think any Denomination believes that. Certainly not the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox, or Trinitarians in general... Or non Trinitarians because they generally don't think that God incarnated in the Son. There might be some obscure Protestant group?

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Look up "the Arian Controversy", it got complicated.

It also just doesn't make sense! He's "God". If he doesn't want to be depowered during his incarnation thing, he doesn't have to be, he claims to have created all that is, which means he made the rules for incarnating. That just doesn't make any sense.

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Who says he didn't want to be depowered during his incarnation?

But like I said, it's been debated over literally thousands of years, and finding answers is better found with a priest or a professor of theology and not on an internet thread about a Disney Channel cartoon.

 

[MrHobbit]

Look up "the Arian Controversy", it got complicated.

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I am aware of the Arians, they did not believe that Jesus was God, so Gleeman's statement wouldn't even apply. They are included in the Non Trinitarians.

But yes, you are correct that this isn't the place to discuss these topics.

 

[Simon_Jester]

Tbf, by incarnating into The Son, He got depowered a lot - so while still rather impressive, the Lance nicking Jesus might have simply amounted to Achilles getting stabbed in his heel.

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It's not about power levels or whatever. It's about symbolism.

The Lance of Longinus is, mythically speaking, the weapon that made God bleed. Magic runs on myth as much or more than logic, and that's a really strong myth.

 

[BlueWerewolf25]

I just wanna throw out that while we know that Actual Satan exists, the QMs are not willing (and probably never will) to confirm if Actual God exists at this time.

 

[Arathnorn]

I just wanna throw out that while we know that Actual Satan exists, the QMs are not willing (and probably never will) to confirm if Actual God exists at this time.

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'Actual Satan' got punked by a teenager and has an 'Abandon All Hope' doormat. I think it's fair to say we're not making any serious theological statements on that end either.

 

[Simon_Jester]

I just wanna throw out that while we know that Actual Satan exists, the QMs are not willing (and probably never will) to confirm if Actual God exists at this time.

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Yeah, but even if Actual God doesn't exist in-setting, billions of people believe he exists.

Again, magic runs on myth, as much or more so than on logic.

 

[TheLordofAwesome]

Question, since it is technically a Disney product now, does the Indiana Jones franchise exist in the Gridlock setting? If so, does that mean there are other holy artifacts just laying around that Nazis may or may not have touched at some point? 🤔

 

[nwish425]

Question, since it is technically a Disney product now, does the Indiana Jones franchise exist in the Gridlock setting? If so, does that mean there are other holy artifacts just laying around that Nazis may or may not have touched at some point? 🤔

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If so they're probably in the ocean somewhere in toes boats of theirs...

Looking for them could be worthwhile even if Indiana Jones isn't part of the setting, all kinds of things in those after all.

 

[TheGleeman]

It's not about power levels or whatever. It's about symbolism.

The Lance of Longinus is, mythically speaking, the weapon that made God bleed. Magic runs on myth as much or more than logic, and that's a really strong myth.

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Three words: "Wounded Gazelle Gambit"

It wouldn´t surprise me if He *let* himself be "wounded" for the sheer Wow-effect of a mere Mortal "having wounded God" and possibly having converted to Christianity afterwards (in actual Christian scripture, the Legionaire remains unnamed and only gets venerated as "St. Longinus" in apocryphical textes).

Remember, in ACTUAL Christian lore Satan isn´t the Big Bad and Ruler of Hell - in the end he is a *prisoner* there like anyone else and there is no equivalent/counterpart to Him ("You shalt have no other Gods before Me", remember?). God is the Alpha and Omega after all and He is in control of every facet of Existence - the Good, the Bad and the Ugly.

...Before I continue ranting and say things that will upset more religous people, let´s just say, that I have a very negative on Religion in general and Him in particular for (in my opinion) taking advantage of an *Omniscient Morality License* He seems to posess in scripture.

Going back to my initial point, I consider it very possible that He let himself be hit by "Longinus" and therefore it not being that big a deal in actuality.

 

[Simon_Jester]

Three words: "Wounded Gazelle Gambit"

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I mean, the entire point of the story is that the guy died; this wasn't about somehow feigning injury.

It wouldn´t surprise me if He *let* himself be "wounded" for the sheer Wow-effect of a mere Mortal "having wounded God" and possibly having converted to Christianity afterwards

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I mean. A big part of the point, within the internal logic of the Christian belief system that describes all these events and without which there is no "Lance of Longinus" to even talk about is that Christ isn't obviously an embodiment of God just from casual inspection. So what 'wow' factor? Doesn't make any sense. It's only a mystically significant event if you already accept the religion's narrative, unlike other miracles appearing in the Gospels.

Remember, in ACTUAL Christian lore Satan isn´t the Big Bad and Ruler of Hell - in the end he is a *prisoner* there like anyone else and there is no equivalent/counterpart to Him ("You shalt have no other Gods before Me", remember?). God is the Alpha and Omega after all and He is in control of every facet of Existence - the Good, the Bad and the Ugly.

...Before I continue ranting and say things that will upset more religous people, let´s just say, that I have a very negative on Religion in general and Him in particular for (in my opinion) taking advantage of an *Omniscient Morality License* He seems to posess in scripture.

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OK, but if you're talking about Christian legends and why something is magically significant due to significance of Christianity, you need to pause and remember that you are talking about the internal logic of that religion's beliefs. You can have whatever complaints you like about Christianity and I'm not arguing with any of that right now, but you have to at least understand the underlying ruleset.

It's sort of like how if you're going to discuss the Harry Potter novels, you have to accept that within the internal logic of the story, magic exists. It's not all just a figment of their imagination.

The Lance of Longinus cannot be understood to have mystical significance except within the context of the Christian belief framework surrounding the Crucifixion. The context of that framework makes some interpretations credible, and others nonsensical, and that's that.

 

[Cjdavis103]

Utterly irrelevant. I'm talking from a doylist point of view regarding the entire Event since after meeting Marco. This has effectively been a long drawn out interlude about Xanatos's forces fighting Demona's.

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We've provided valuable support and even more now that She's up close and personal with the god dam hol

Tbf, by incarnating into The Son, He got depowered a lot - so while still rather impressive, the Lance nicking Jesus might have simply amounted to Achilles getting stabbed in his heel.

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said nerfed version waved a hand and stoped a storm and created infinite bread and fish for fun. Big J ain't exactly a pushover even discounting the connection upstairs.

the three holy relics typically are very very broken. The remains of the Cross, the cup he used at the last supper and caught his blood and the Spear are typically regarded as the three biggest relics in Christianity. So in popular media they are like wise extremely powerful if magic is a thing.

even if the lance didn't kill him the thing with magic is it runs off of meaning. So if people over two thousand years all believe it's super important it's probably super important.