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DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest

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Another thing about the Huntsclan in regards to the idea of having them fight Toffee. There is a decent chance they'll decide to add the entire population of Mewni to their kill list, since they're human adjacent and from an inherently magical alternate dimension.
 
This isn't the place for thorough discussion about a faith very dear to me.

I can understand the inclusion as it's in the gargoyles source.

If someone can call me back after the speculation is done, that would be great. I'm taking a break from the thread for a bit. I'm not sure I would be who I want to be if I were to participate in that discussion.
 
Gonna say, Gleeman's post kinda reads a little close to disparaging a religious faith. I'm not going really weigh in on the discussion given this isn't the place for religious discussion, so I'm backing out of this one.
 
We accepted this as an unfortunate inevitability of writing this sort of story, and we apologize for the running theological debate that will be going down in the comments. The planning team includes a variety of perspectives and we will do our best to keep the plot respectful and inclusive to all of them. We'd appreciate if people could cool it with the burgeoning arguments, but I do not, if you will forgive me a moment of levity, expect a miracle.
 
The main problem with online theological debates is that it will attract someone with either big zealot energy or big edgy middle school atheist who thinks he smarter than everyone energy. It's just annoying to deal with.
 
Would holding the line, have prevented the huntsman from gaining too much Positive PR, and stop them from committing any warcrimes towards defeated gargoyles?

How about after this crisis, we do some damage control such as revealing the history of Demona, and how she grew to hate humans, and why Janna and her party had to abandon the huntsclan and the mob during battle, without revealing too much info about the Weapon of mass destruction that Demona tried to steal? Revealing that Demona convince or even artificially created a group of desperate gargoyles as a diversion just for her vendetta and deluded crusade against humanity to prevent the huntsmen from spreading the hatred of gargoyles too much, a sort of damage control getting Xanatos to help is a good idea.
 
Katahiraga said:
Would holding the line, have prevented the huntsman from gaining too much Positive PR, and stop them from committing any warcrimes towards defeated gargoyles?

How about after this crisis, we do some damage control such as revealing the history of Demona, and how she grew to hate humans, and why Janna and her party had to abandon the huntsclan and the mob during battle, without revealing too much info about the Weapon of mass destruction that Demona tried to steal? Revealing that Demona convince or even artificially created a group of desperate gargoyles as a diversion just for her vendetta and deluded crusade against humanity to prevent the huntsmen from spreading the hatred of gargoyles too much, a sort of damage control getting Xanatos to help is a good idea.
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If we give the gargoyle-led attempted genocide of humanity a face, that'll just be the face that the Huntsclan puts on their recruitment posters.
 
Torgamous said:
If we give the gargoyle-led attempted genocide of humanity a face, that'll just be the face that the Huntsclan puts on their recruitment posters.
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I meant reveal to the world how, Demona became Demona, and to get them to understand Why Janna's didn't so much as abandon the fight as prioritize taking down a tragic but ultimately dangerous terrorist mastermind, This prevents the huntsman from taking the whole credit, and we may actually convince the people that, Janna already knew that reinforcements were arriving, and at the same time stop or at the least weaken the Huntsman Propaganda by convincing them that if they do join, they shouldn't do so with hatred or at the least join them for nongenocidal intentions, as so much as join to protect others,

I mean if it goes well the huntsman may be defeated from the inside by the decent, sane and people with morals, that the huntsclan may actually be reform for the better once the huntsmaster is overthrown later.
 
The thing is, the Huntsclan aren't creating anything, here. There are already people who can only view other people as monsters, and can only view differences as signs of the monstrous. Those people will seek any excuse they can find to ... well, to have an excuse.

We could cast a spell to make everyone on this planet infinitely understanding of Demona's motives. There would still be people who would be all-too-ready to pick up a dagger and stab the nearest oddity in the heart. And standing there, blood on their hands and hate in their chest, they would look you in the eyes with their own wild, vengeful gaze, and claim that murder was the only reasonable thing to do.

Demona's invasion isn't the cause of the hatred. It's just the alibi.
 
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Katahiraga said:
I meant reveal to the world how, Demona became Demona, and to get them to understand Why Janna's didn't so much as abandon the fight as prioritize taking down a tragic but ultimately dangerous terrorist mastermind, This prevents the huntsman from taking the whole credit, and we may actually convince the people that, Janna already knew that reinforcements were arriving, and at the same time stop or at the least weaken the Huntsman Propaganda by convincing them that if they do join, they shouldn't do so with hatred or at the least join them for nongenocidal intentions, as so much as join to protect others,

I mean if it goes well the huntsman may be defeated from the inside by the decent, sane and people with morals, that the huntsclan may actually be reform for the better once the huntsmaster is overthrown later.
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Imagine if someone in October 2001 ran an ad campaign about how Osama bin Laden had his reasons for attacking America and we should try to be more sympathetic.

This is not a winning strategy.
 
AProcrastinator said:
The thing is, the Huntsclan aren't creating anything, here. There are already people who can only view other people as monsters, and can only view differences as signs of the monstrous. Those people will seek any excuse they can find to ... well, to have an excuse.

We could cast a spell to make everyone on this planet infinitely understanding of Demona's motives. There would still be people who would be all-too-ready to pick up a dagger and stab the nearest oddity in the heart. And standing there, blood on their hands, hate in their heart, they would look you in the eyes with their own wild, vengeful gaze, and claim that murder was the only reasonable thing to do.

Demona's invasion isn't the cause of the hatred. It's just the alibi.
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There are reasons why it will be advantageous to at the least guide how the huntsman recruiting effort works.

1. Getting the people to understand Demona will accomplish a few things
A. Either Demona will be blamed, and her army may be treated as unfortunate victims of her schemes, and by extensions gargoyles and other supernatural creatures won't experiences the full blowout of any hate from the normal people.

B. Demona will become sympathetic but still a dangerous threat,

Eitherway, Demona will probably receive the brunt of the hatred.

2. Yes the Huntsman thanks to the PR stunt will receive vile people full of hate, but thanks to their recruitment efforts, good decent people will be recruited to, which will make reforming the Huntsclan into a force of good, if enough decent people joined, the good PR is a double edged sword for the HuntsClan, by making themselves to be heroes, they open themselves to genuinely good heroic people who would want to join them to protect others, and that is a weakness we want to happen to bring them down from the inside and potentially reform them.



The bottom line is to not allow the Huntsclan to shape the story and narrative of what happen, otherwise they will milk the PR for all its worth unopposed, for example a public statement cogratulating them and treating them as heroic force of good, that will ensure a peaceful future or coexistence with other supernatural creatures, that way if they try denying it or reveal their true colors, it will only damage their image. This is a opportunity.
 
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Just have Xanatos work with the government to create an official public Exotic Integration bureau (division) or something and have them make a statement. The Feds are kings of PR, propaganda and cover-ups in this quest.

Don't go into detail regarding Demona's personal history. Just proclaim that there was a civil war among the gargoyles over revealing themselves and becoming true Americans. Let the cooperative gargoyles get citizenship with all the associated rights (can't just be murdered) and responsibilities (expected to follow the law). Then turn the friendly gargoyles into minor celebrities.

Possibly we can blame the whole incident on the Huntsclan efforts to secretly murder the gargoyles with some willing to beg Uncle Sam for legal protection and others wanting to just murder all the people that killed their family.
 
Katahiraga said:
The bottom line is to not allow the Huntsclan to shape the story and narrative of what happen, otherwise they will milk the PR for all its worth unopposed, for example a public statement cogratulating them and treating them as heroic force of good, that will ensure a peaceful future or coexistence with other supernatural creatures, that way if they try denying it or reveal their true colors, it will only damage their image. This is a opportunity.
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Calling the KKK a force for racial equality won't change the KKK, it'll just give them another defense against people calling them racist. Nobody wants to leave the Huntsclan to do their thing, but your proposed strategy will not work. It will at best cost us public approval for no effect, and at worst drive more people to the Huntsclan, where the organization with a lot of institutional knowledge on how to radicalize its members against magical creatures will be free to do that. Regardless of the effect on the Huntsclan, talking up how awesome the genocidal militia is will not endear us to the targets of their genocide, and for both moral and practical reasons we do want to be seen as a safe haven when people like Doom and Bellwether decide that the politically expedient thing to do is to jump on board the magic genocide train.
 
Katahiraga said:
Would holding the line, have prevented the huntsman from gaining too much Positive PR, and stop them from committing any warcrimes towards defeated gargoyles?
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I don't really think so, because holding the line meant that we were going to be held up with the Pack. All that would have done is place us in the same area as the huntsclan, where they're assisting us, and then we probably would have had to run at least some damage control since we're associated with them on TV.


As for how to fix the PR mess with the Huntsclan, I'm honestly not thinking too hard about that until the dust settles. I'm hoping we can work with Xanatos on it though. Assuming he doesn't get Syndrome'd.

I'm going to have to object to assisting or guiding the huntsclan in anyway because doing so, regardless of our motives, will associate us with the Huntsclan, and nobody is going to care why we did it so much as the fact we did so. Especially for Doom-like people who will absolutely use it to smear us.
 
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Torgamous said:
Calling the KKK a force for racial equality won't change the KKK, it'll just give them another defense against people calling them racist. Nobody wants to leave the Huntsclan to do their thing, but your proposed strategy will not work. It will at best cost us public approval for no effect, and at worst drive more people to the Huntsclan, where the organization with a lot of institutional knowledge on how to radicalize its members against magical creatures will be free to do that. Regardless of the effect on the Huntsclan, talking up how awesome the genocidal militia is will not endear us to the targets of their genocide, and for both moral and practical reasons we do want to be seen as a safe haven when people like Doom and Bellwether decide that the politically expedient thing to do is to jump on board the magic genocide train.
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I meant sabotage or instigate a coup't from within their ranks, by setting a trap where enough good people join their ranks, that they outnumber the evil, insane genocidal, ones than takeover the organization by deposing the huntsmaster thus destroying the fascist group and reforming it, basically since people see them as heroes, the huntsclan want to use that to their advantage which means they might potentially recruit actual decent people, and if their number swells enough that we can take advantage and instigate a coup't or they slip up and reveal their genocidal tendencies, they can be overthrown from the inside, in other words, use the positive PR against them and rely on the goodwill of the people to do the right thing and overthrow them from within, this public stunt has given them a weakness that can be exploited, they wanted to play or at least to pretend to be heroic so lets take advantage of it if we can't convince the people that they are bad guys.

I never said anything about talking up how awesome the genocidal militia is, I meant sabotaging their recruiting efforts so, the only people they recruit are heroic goodish types, instead of racist genocidal types, either they are force to play the good guy image, or sooner or later, they messed up and get overthrown, once the people they recruited realize, what kind of people they are, the leaders get deposed by us helping the recruits overthrow them.
 
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Katahiraga said:
I meant sabotage or instigate a coup't from within their ranks, by setting a trap where enough good people join their ranks, that they outnumber the evil, insane genocidal, ones than takeover the organization by deposing the huntsmaster thus destroying the fascist group and reforming it,
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I will point out that Doof's sum knowledge of the organization can be summed up roughly as "it exists".
even beyond that the organization exists on a global level. We absolutely can't manipulate recruitment on that level for all of their branches.
 
Katahiraga said:
in other words, use the positive PR against them and rely on the goodwill of the people to do the right thing and overthrow them from within, this public stunt has given them a weakness that can be exploited, they wanted to play or at least to pretend to be heroic so lets take advantage of it if we can't convince the people that they are bad guys.
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How do you think genocides happen? The groups responsible don't advertise themselves as bad guys, they always paint themselves as the good guys heroically defending their race. Feeding that narrative will not avert a genocide, it'll make us complicit in it.
 
Katahiraga said:
I meant sabotage or instigate a coup't from within their ranks, by setting a trap where enough good people join their ranks, that they outnumber the evil, insane genocidal, ones than takeover the organization by deposing the huntsmaster thus destroying the fascist group and reforming it,
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They aren't going to move a new recruit up the hierarchy and into a position of power without strong evidence that the new recruit follows the ideology of the group.
 
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nwish425 said:
The main problem with online theological debates is that it will attract someone with either big zealot energy or big edgy middle school atheist who thinks he smarter than everyone energy.
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Everything after the word "or" is redundant because "big zealot" describes the latter.
 
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