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DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest

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General_Urist said:
I still don't get why we're sending Tom, doesn't Kitsune already have the Occult stat covered decently?
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1. He's narratively appropriate and could trigger something with Marco
2. His occult stat is slightly higher than Kitsune's and he has a +20 trait to necromancy that could be triggered, considering it's been done in the relative area in the past.
(note: Kitsune is technically higher with loyalty in effect, plus she might hit +32 on occult sabatoge checks?)
3. He punches +44 for martial in combat

If the next question is why Kitsune:
1. Narratively appropriate b/c Janna
2. Rounds out Diplo and intrigue
3. Her Now you see me trait has a relatively high chance of triggering I'd say.
 
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Shade31415 said:
Demona checks those boxes, and if she somehow isn't here then it's something at least as bad if not worse.
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She does, but the average gargoyle foot soldier doesn't, and since Hego isn't literally a wizard (like Janna) or a primary target known to Demona (like Xanatos), Demona's very likely to dismiss him as largely irrelevant and leave him to the mooks; she has bigger fish to fry.

Murazor said:
Meh.

Still beats literally throwing away her weapon to engage her enemy in hand to hand combat...

Which Demona notoriously did when she was under mind control that supressed some of her more self-defeating impulses.
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...To be clear...

...She threw away her weapon to fight hand-to-hand...

...When under mind-altering medication magic to make her LESS self-defeating.

...I'm not so sure Hego's gonna have a problem here. :p

kfrar said:
Regarding Hego, we've been mocked for sticking him in PA hell. We don't need to send him on this particular mission to not do that.

Just stick him into the next Feldrake quest, say. Or have him pad out any other exploratory quest we do. Even if he doesn't add much in the way of stats, the experience will be good for him, and we've usually got a spare slot or two in our quest lineups anyway.

We don't need to choose between treating him as an A-Tier combatant that we use for literally everything or sticking him in Bueno Nacho all day.
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Arguably. But this impending quest is actually not such a bad choice for a well-intentioned but dim cape. It's baaaasically the plot of Avengers from the perspective of an uninvolved metahuman who happens to be in Manhattan: SUDDENLY ALIENS ATTACK NEW YORK!!! And their mooks are fight-able.

By contrast, a quest to Norway is likely to either involve more thinking (not his strong suit), or fewer easily punchable, straightforward Martial challenges.

Also, if Hego gets hurt on THIS quest, in-character it's not our fault! He was in Manhattan when aliens attacked; Shego's grudge is likely to be directed against Demona (good) or gargoyles in general (bad, but manageable and not ultimately our problem).

Whereas if he gets hurt on a mission we sent him on, that's going to reflect more directly on us.
 
General_Urist said:
I understand people want Khan available for other national actions, but given there seems to be effectively a WAR going on in New York City complete with people slinging missiles you'd think this would be the perfect thing to send Khan to resolve.

EDIT: I still don't get why we're sending Tom, doesn't Kitsune already have the Occult stat covered decently?
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Shade answered the Tom thing, so I'll answer the Khan thing. I feel it is important we have at least a little bit of Diplo alongside the others being the most narratively important to form a Marcnificent Few trait, if not now then in the future. We've already got a fair amount of Martial going that I am not too afraid of what pops up, especially since our group won't be the only one in NYC fighting Gargoyles.

With luck, maybe we'll even run in to Star if she's still there!

edit: and yes, I know it said that she's not going to be able to stay until Christmas. That's more of just a vain hope I threw out than a serious consideration for this group makeup.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
Arguably. But this impending quest is actually not such a bad choice for a well-intentioned but dim cape. It's baaaasically the plot of Avengers from the perspective of an uninvolved metahuman who happens to be in Manhattan: SUDDENLY ALIENS ATTACK NEW YORK!!! And their mooks are fight-able.

By contrast, a quest to Norway is likely to either involve more thinking (not his strong suit), or fewer easily punchable, straightforward Martial challenges.

Also, if Hego gets hurt on THIS quest, in-character it's not our fault! He was in Manhattan when aliens attacked; Shego's grudge is likely to be directed against Demona (good) or gargoyles in general (bad, but manageable and not ultimately our problem).

Whereas if he gets hurt on a mission we sent him on, that's going to reflect more directly on us.
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I've never argued to baby Hego! I've wanted to have him do more things for a long time, and if we didn't have a cap on the number of heroes we could send to New York I'd love to send him.

But we don't. We've got three people, and Hego, for all that I love him, is not our A-Team. And I feel like a red-text Crisis quest probably deserves that.

Lizzie's extra contribution to Martial and addition of any amount of Learning just feel like they'll be more valuable to me, and her ties to Janna give her solid odds of picking up narrative bonuses imo.

Plus, Hego did fine for himself exploring the wasteland. He got clowned on by an enemy nat 100 in the first martial roll, face-tanked it, and got right back up and in fighting shape in no time, both proving useful in combat and providing some bonuses to the exploration itself through his Stewardship. I see no reason he couldn't similarly punch or tank some enemies in Norway while occasionally contributing to non-martial efforts.
 
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Can I just ask what Hego brings mechanically to the quest that is better than Kitsune?

Tom and Lizzy are pretty much guaranteed at this point. Kitsune could maybe nudge Lizzy out but I don't think that's happening.

Hego has to contend with Tom for martial rolls, and Lizzy is literally two below him normally. Besides that, the fact we can only send three people when we normally have a max of 5 makes me think Cazador is going to be in the fifth slot, so he has to contend with him too.

Diplo wise Hego is below Tom, so he contributes nothing there, except lower it if Kitsune is not on the team.

He does give 3 points in stewardship so there's that.


He doesn't contribue to learning in any way. Same with intrigue.

I don't think I need to comment on occult. Not that we'd be using him for that.

Glory Daze is something that will almost certainly Trigger here. He definitely won't gain the plus three since I'm pretty sure none of the gargoyles subscribe to the golden days, and if anything he runs the very high risk of the minus ten depending on who these guys are.

So seriously, what does he bring to this quest besides a completely parallel narrative in what is pretty much the climax of Janna's arc?
 
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kfrar said:
I've never argued to baby Hego! I've wanted to have him do more things for a long time, and if we didn't have a cap on the number of heroes we could send to New York I'd love to send him.
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I'm not saying you should baby Hego, or want to. I'm just providing reasons why I think he'd be an adequate choice. With that said...

But we don't. We've got three people, and Hego, for all that I love him, is not our A-Team. And I feel like a red-text Crisis quest probably deserves that.

Lizzie's extra contribution to Martial and addition of any amount of Learning just feel like they'll be more valuable to me, and her ties to Janna give her solid odds of picking up narrative bonuses imo.
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Lizzie is definitely a responsible and reasonable choice! There are definitely good reasons to choose her! I have no fundamental objections!

It should also be said that at this point, Lizzie and Kitsune are both overwhelming front-runners compared to Hego.
 
Torgamous said:
Him doing so bad in the Wasteland started with him refusing to consider that he's anything other than the protagonist of a golden age superhero comic. Boldly confronting an evildoer rather than hiding, for example, and then scolding him for drug use. That's not because we've been coddling him, that's just who he is, and neither the narrative nor the people we've got in New York need someone nobody really knows getting the genre wrong that way. Janna's combat spells tend towards the absurdly lethal and Tom fights with literal hellfire, and neither of them deserve to have Hego moralizing at them about that, especially when they just found their friend and are busy fighting for their lives.
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No, him doing poorly in the wasteland is because his opponent got a fucking natural 100 on their opening roll. Hego then, in the next round he was in, proceeded to win in spite of the injury and the malus from Glory Daze.

Let's not miss why the end result happened because of the end result.
 
Mattman324 said:
No, him doing poorly in the wasteland is because his opponent got a fucking natural 100 on their opening roll. Hego then, in the next round he was in, proceeded to win in spite of the injury and the malus from Glory Daze.
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Okay, but I don't care about that. My focus on his performance in the Wasteland is how he behaved, not who won the fight, since we've got Tom here to win fights. I see his behavior as likely to be detrimental to the narratives of everyone else in the quest, and as per Shade's latest post Hego's narrative effect is the only effect he has.

Having said my piece about Hego, I will now be silly.
Simon_Jester said:
But this impending quest is actually not such a bad choice for a well-intentioned but dim cape. It's baaaasically the plot of Avengers from the perspective of an uninvolved metahuman who happens to be in Manhattan: SUDDENLY ALIENS ATTACK NEW YORK!!! And their mooks are fight-able.
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We, as in you and I not as in Doofenshmirtz, have been in Xanatos' position here. You know what it's like to be in the middle of fighting off an invasion of a city your company slightly secretly controls and then to have a classic superhero dropped on your lap. Do you really want to do that to Xanay? Can you live with that on your conscience?
 
[X] Tom
[X] Genghis Khan
[X] Kitsune

Because 2 narrative ties and one of our biggest guns.
 
Torgamous said:
We, as in you and I not as in Doofenshmirtz, have been in Xanatos' position here. You know what it's like to be in the middle of fighting off an invasion of a city your company slightly secretly controls and then to have a classic superhero dropped on your lap. Do you really want to do that to Xanay? Can you live with that on your conscience?
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Since a rivalry casting Xanatos as Lex Luthor and Hego as Superman would probably end quickly and in a very entertaining manner, I'm all for it.

:p
 
[X] Tom
[X] Kitsune
[X] Lizzy

Reasoning:
1) Narrative purposes. All of these people are connected to Janna in some way, which should give us some sort of narrative edge (not as potent or bonus-inducing as it would have been if a Toon got involved, but still)
2) I really want Hego to come in and save the day, but I've gotta be honest. We spent too much time coddling him. If we hadn't, then sending him on this wouldn't be as unrealistic. But now, all he provides is some half-decent martial that's going to be reduced by his Glory Daze malus
3) On that note, Lizzy does bring a neat balance to the team with her traits, as well as her Stewardship and Learning traits (might be unneeded, but you never know)
4) Kitsune is our Diplomacy and Intrigue unit for this quest if she isn't using her occult. When she is on these checks, Tom and Janna are both there to pick up any slack she may carry, with higher scores.
5) "Sending Kitsune to New York is a bad idea because she hates Puck." Bullshit. Flat out bullshit. Is she scared of him? Yes. Rightly so, dude's powerful. Does she hate him? Unlikely. There is no evidence to suggest that she actively hates the Fey. Besides, with Warding the Henhouse, she's more likely to put aside personal feelings in favor of a larger goal due to increased motivation
6) You guys wanted to boost Tom's loyalty? This is how we do it. If we don't send him on this quest, he will never forgive us
7) I want to assign Amur to Kitsune or Tom (Kitsune due to species relationships, a fox interacting with a dog (can't remember if foxes are more closely related to cats or dogs; hilarious either way); Tom due to Laser Puppies similarities)

As for actions:
Tom:
[ ] Find Star
Reasoning: easy to do; Marco probably has a clue and Tom now knows where he is, so that's where he'll go
Kitsune:
[ ] Work for odd apothecary
-[ ] Reach out to magical NYC/Investigate a hot spot/Xanatos option
Reasoning: plays with Kitsune's high diplomacy/intrigue stats
Lizzy:
[ ] Work for Doofenshmirtz
-[ ] Assault a rival/Perform supervillainy
--[ ] The Morganians
Reasoning: Lizzy's highest stats are Learning and Martial. Since there are no Learning actions in New York, that leaves Martial. I'd rather not piss off Xanatos by attacking him, thank you very much. Also, if we attack the Morganians, we piss off one party. If we attack the Bazar, we piss off multiple parties, most likely including the Morganians. I'd rather we not perform supervillainy due to it costing us points with some of our hero units and Uncle Sam, but I am not opposed to doing it if we have no other choice
 
mangawriter77 said:
Ugh, doy! You're right! We could have her use her Hang with Janna action! It literally takes her right to Janna! Why didn't I think of that to begin with?!
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Technically you wouldn't even need that. We are literally allowed to just burn Personals, regardless of whether the Personals go to New York, to put them on the quest. It just means that they effectively replace whatever their action was for the turn with "Go to New York." The action you assign the hero doesn't have to be for New York. It just has to be New York if you want it actually doing anything in the case of Personals, or applying the hero's bonus in the case of National Actions.
 
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