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Paths of Civilization

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Bladesguy said:
I am worried people are overlooking the value of this option due to being distracted by the possibility of a hero, or another megaproject, when in actuality this is a amazing option! Reworking our subordinate management should majorly help our society! It will be costly sure, but if we invite a few more countries to the games we should be fine.
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Do you even know what this does besides "alter" how we manage our subordinates? It's essentially meaningless without that knowledge.
 
Is there any chance that the need for skilled commanders at all levels will give us another chance at the Amazon reforms?
 
[X] [Parl] Cement Production Subsidies (Main Increase Cement Production, Patricians disapprove)
[X] [React] Promote Industry (Sec Support Artisans)
[X] [React] Judge (Sec Enforce Justice)
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [React] Contact Freehills (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [Lesson] The importance of skilled commanders at all levels
[X] [Diplo] Begin Boundary Passage Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Diplo)
[X] [Culture] Gain a Cultural Hero (-15 Culture)
[X] [Mystic] Begin Great Library Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Mysticism)

Since we have a baby boom and a festival is not helpful right now, i'm not gonna bother farming or celebrating here. I also don't care about PSN choices honestly.
 
PrimalShadow said:
The Passage megaproject is neck-and-neck with None for the Diplomacy vote. If you don't want to be running too many megaprojects (Dam AND Library AND Passage), consider approval voting for "[Diplo] None" to help make sure that we don't get the Passage started.
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Ugh, I suppose I should. Okay then, here is my revised vote.

[X] [Parl] Cement Production Subsidies (Main Increase Cement Production, Patricians disapprove)

[X] [PSN] Main Plant Cash Crops - Textiles (-2 Centralization + Costs)

[X] [React] Celebrate (Sec Improve Annual Festival)
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)

[X] [Lesson] The bindings between superiors and subordinates

[X] [Diplo] Alter Subordinate Management (-10 Diplo, -1 Diplo per landed subordinate/turn)
[X] [Diplo] Nothing

[X] [Culture] Nothing
[X] [Culture] Upgrade a random value (-18 Culture)
[X] [Culture] Gain a Cultural Hero (-15 Culture)

[X] [Mystic] Begin Great Library Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Mysticism)

pbluekan said:
Do you even know what this does besides "alter" how we manage our subordinates? It's essentially meaningless without that knowledge.
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I am fairly sure that this implements the Rotate governors option we had back during the beginning of the Myranyn Reforms. I want it for the narrative effects rotating the governors should give us.
 
notgreat said:
It guarantees a minimum of 2 loyalty for our landed subordinates... In exchange for a ruinous amount of Diplo every turn.
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It also gives us a precedent to dislodge the hereditary land concept by instituting management rotation. A precedent which can be expanded upon, but as you can see from the diplo costs, people won't like it.

Funny how the people in power never like term limits.
 
It looks like the GA will not run through next turn.

We are 3 below max Wealth right now, and we are going to spend 10 more (2*2 on diplomacy and 6 on Cement). So that puts us 13 under max.
We are currently 10 under max Econ right now, are going to spend 2 more (on Cement), and then gain 21 (from Farming), putting us 9 over cap. That means 9 overflow into Wealth... putting us 4 below cap. So no Gilded Age, which means no Prestige Purchases and no +6~7 city wealth, but also no -1 Stability.

I guess it is a mixed bag.
 
It seems like it takes AN longer to update whenever we are in a golden age/gilded age turn, so I have an intrinsic dislike for them even though they are awesome for our civilization.
 
notgreat said:
It guarantees a minimum of 2 loyalty for our landed subordinates... In exchange for a ruinous amount of Diplo every turn. (Currently -10 Diplo per turn)
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I feel like that per turn cost might drop once it's been entrenched a good time beyond living memory... But it also might not so it feel like too much of a risk right now. I do wish we could afford it though.
 
PrimalShadow said:
The Passage megaproject is neck-and-neck with None for the Diplomacy vote. If you don't want to be running too many megaprojects (Dam AND Library AND Passage), consider approval voting for "[Diplo] None" to help make sure that we don't get the Passage started.
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Another thing you could do is approval vote for other options. Like Diplo Hero. It's a compromise in that it's cheaper, so if your objection is that running Boundary Passage will lose us two cities rather than the expense, you might consider voting for it.
 
Idea one:

[X] [Parl] Cement Production Subsidies (Main Increase Cement Production, Patricians disapprove)
[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)
[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ) x2
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [PSN] Sec Expand Forest (-1 Centralization + Costs)

Idea two:

[X] [Parl] Cement Production Subsidies (Main Increase Cement Production, Patricians disapprove)
[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [React] Contact Freehills (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [PSN] Sec Expand Econ (-1 Centralization + Costs)

Idea three:

[X] [Parl] Cement Production Subsidies (Main Increase Cement Production, Patricians disapprove)
[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)
[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ) x2
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [PSN] Sec Expand Econ (-1 Centralization + Costs)

[X] [Lesson] The importance of skilled commanders at all levels
[X] [Diplo] Nothing
[X] [Diplo] Boost all subordinate loyalty (-15 Diplo)
[X] [Culture] Begin Classical Law Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Culture)
[X] [Mystic] Gain a new trait slot for Mylathadysm (-12 Mysticism)

Approval voting in the Boost to sub loyalty, since that was what I actually wanted to do but accidentally voted for Nothing but am okay with that too given everything else I want to do.
 
Glassware said:
Another thing you could do is approval vote for other options. Like Diplo Hero. It's a compromise in that it's cheaper, so if your objection is that running Boundary Passage will lose us two cities rather than the expense, you might consider voting for it.
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Speaking of which; I did actually decide to approval vote for Diplo Hero. Thought you'd want to know.
 
Okay, analysis since I'm so late that rushing out a vote won't really change much unless I sway people to it;.


The per turn math is really pretty now!
Mechanical highlights:
-Repeat Forests has the amusing mechanical effect of refunding exactly as much EE as it consumes, which means that mechanically, it produces as much usable land as it uses up. Narratively the expanding forestry is terraforming marginal land into at least as much usable land, so we're having trees walking out across the landscape. So basically we're planting trees, using the resultant wood to make black soil, then dropping more trees on the new black soil.

Highlands Cap (Vassal-March) - Protects against incursion from the Highlanders in the east, can provide military advances and supports Txolla (L: 4/5, D: 3/5)

We has a hat!

Academia Nut said:
The initial session of parliament took quite some time to get everything squared away as various arguments over responsibilities and control were hashed out. As it was, the various patrician families representing a wide variety of factions and cliques took on the majority of the responsibility for making sure that the kingdom actually ran, while Alyxunmyn retained all the traditional rights of warmaking and the like while surrendering some of the direct edict powers traditional for kings. Still, the Dragon King retained some of his claws, and retained significant veto power.
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So, we got somewhat lucky here, as the Hero King during the transition protected a great deal of his exclusive powers even as, from the sound of it, the power to Proclaim Glory and Enforce Justice(i.e. write laws) was now open to the Patricians.

The first question posed to him was a suggested change to the laws regarding the distribution of land. With the return of the levies and the support they had received, many new families had formed all at once. More over, many of the new mills built to sidestep the labour issues caused by the war were still going strong, so there was expected to be a glut of manpower within the next generation.
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And so for the first time in history, unemployment becomes possible, because we invested so hard in labor saving that all the saved labor coming home was rather annoyed.

Somewhat fortunately it seemed that the gods were pleased by the People wrapping up their conflicts, and already the rains and harvests were looking especially promising.
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And it seems we met the Harmony in Man = Harmony in Nature prediction.

Many prominent families had brought a change to the law before parliament, to better ensure that future generations would be guaranteed land to farm. It had broad support in the assembly, and Alyxunmyn was generally for accepting it, but the assembly representatives for the priests were rather opposed. They had brought forth an alternate proposal to set aside more land for forestry, which was mostly acceptable to most of the factions in the assembly as a compromise position. There were however many urban families who were more than a little annoyed, as the forests were perceived as receiving almost inordinate attention anyway. A few did acknowledge that with some plans to make more warships would require more wood eventually, as wood the need for charcoal.

Actually, speaking of charcoal, there was a minority opinion that increased cement production for use in the dam would be of use. Inquiring about the general disposition of that project, Alyxunmyn found that its budget had been left in a minimal state for the war. Seasonal work was being done to keep water out of the holes that had already been dug, and stone was being worked on, but things had slowed to a crawl for the duration of the fighting. It wasn't the most popular of proposals, but most agreed that getting the dam completed quickly would be of benefit to all, and increasing cement production would help there and in other places.
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And so we see how Parliment works: The highest Factions get the power to propose Reaction votes and we must follow at least one of them if we don't want riots.
This means the balance of faction powers becomes more important, we really want to drag the Urban Poor and Priests up to get some kind of decent representation of our options again...noting that the Patricians can deliberately silence factions using their power.

So the options:
[] [Parl] Fair Land Allocation Act (Main Distribute Land, Patricians and Yeomen approve)

Very nice costume for "give us permanent power and reduce the power of the state". An understandable, if not necessarily desirable outcome for us.
Faction wise:
-Patricians - We can distribute the land to the Yeomen, then buy the land from the Yeomen for favors whenever they are in a pinch(lessons from Rome)
-Yeomen - We get land! Woot! This is our road to becoming Patricians!
-Traders/Guilds - Well, they're offering to give money for this, but the treasuries are full?
-Priests - You know they'd never plant a single tree if they had their way right?
-Urban Poor - Does it matter? Its not ours.

[] [Parl] Dryad Housing Act (Main Expand Forest, Priests +1 Faction Power, Yeoman approve, Patricians disapprove)

This is actually a bad idea, since by doing this we finish the Yeomen quest too early and they'd be giving a new quest which will expire on the same turn as the Guilds. Not healthy for our action availability.

Also note the +1 power to priests would over red our RA when the priest quest completes. As Expand Forest is a Priest action they'd also complete their quest early after you include the Repeat Forest and the Yeomen probably also taking a Forest action.

Faction wise:
-Patricians - This is not distribute land. We're important here. You can't prioritize someone else man.
-Yeomen - We are still very erect! This progresses our quest!
-Traders - Well this isn't spending money
-Guilds - Well, the ironworks does need more fuel, but don't we have plenty of trees already?
-Priests - Trees! This progresses our quest!

[] [Parl] Cement Production Subsidies (Main Increase Cement Production, Patricians disapprove)

This gives us the Cement Upgrade bonus to the Dam before it finishes. Last call for permanent bonuses, because we aren't retroactively adding it!
Faction wise:
-Patricians - This is not distribute land. We're important here. You can't prioritize someone else man. Normally we'd be all for better Dams but you can't delay our priorities!
-Yeomen - This doesn't progress our quest or give us more power. We don't care.
-Traders - This is spending money, we disapprove on principle. Money is made to be rolled on.
-Guilds - More manufactories! Bigger Dams, Bigger Mills, Bigger ironworks! It does use up some of the fuel we'd need for ironworks but eh, there's a lot of trees, we hardly need more.
-Priests - We disapprove of using up more trees on principle.
-Urban Poor - Does this mean walls and block housing can be built even taller now?

[] [Parl] Veto all (-1 Stability, Patricians and Yeomen disapprove, extra reaction action)

"Fuck ya all I know better"


Because of his high admin skill, Alyxunmyn gains three Sec reactions instead of one Main. Pick three choices (or four if you veto parliament)

You know, if we ever make Excellent the norm for King admins that's basically a bonus action!

[] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)

Progress towards the Urban Poor quest. We want one of this. Maybe two.

[] [React] Settle (Sec New Settlement - Internal Reorg)

Trying to fail the Urban Poor quest so we can't keep Division of Power.

[] [React] Promote Industry (Sec Support Artisans)

Useful given our super high tech costs, but we got incoming Tech to make it pointless save for innovations..

[] [React] Celebrate (Sec Improve Annual Festival)

We're maxed on Stability that Festivals can grant.

[] [React] Brag (Sec Salt Gift)

This actually HAS a use, the Harmurri are pretty damaged by the war, and Freehills are getting beaten to shit. They both could use a wealth infusion.

We're about to spend a shitload of wealth though.

[] [React] Exercise (Sec Build Gymnasium)

Harmless. Not urgent.

[] [React] Judge (Sec Enforce Justice)

Gives us Stability leeway, but costs us Centralization leeway. Would block the Hunt Troublemakers/Enforce Justice combo next turn.

[] [React] Praise the Gods (Sec Build Temple)

Over red RA as soon as the priest quest completes. Which it will because this is another priest quest action.

[] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[] [React] Contact Freehills (Sec Diplomatic Mission)

Overall pretty important to know. AN had been hinting at the need for this.

Perhaps most interesting though for Alyxunmyn was the changes he was noting in the culture. There had been - still was to a degree - a large amount of resentment towards the elites for the amount of wealth they retained during the war while hundreds of thousands had suffered. Alyxunmyn himself had avoided most of the criticism, and had worked out a long time ago that if you let frustrated people complain and poke fun at you and you brushed it off and smiled along with them, any anger towards you tended to dissipate with amazing alacrity. Perhaps old Yshuyn the Mad had been onto something. In any case the plays that were popular in the cities were frequently either the ones written by that great king, or were clearly inspired by his works. Alyxunmyn made sure to quietly patronize some of the ones he felt would help secure his position among the populace, the ones where he was seen as this distance figure of reverence while remaining humble, the one who could solve your problems if only you could get past the circling cloud of wicked advisors or overcome your timidity to approach one so grand. They were useful stories.

To assuage some of his guilt over his actions in the war, he also quietly propped up a rather unpopular production criticizing how he had deployed his warriors. The anonymous author who had been working with that troupe was clearly someone of some skill and knowledge of the way the troops were deployed, and while that meant that they were almost certainly from another patrician family upset by his ascent, that didn't necessarily mean they were wrong.
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Trouble still building. That looks like the narrative for Excellent Diplomacy diffusing a trouble roll.


Lessons were learned in the war. But what?
[] [Lesson] The bindings between superiors and subordinates

Evolves Lord's Loyalty. This would likely help with the colonies splitting away, and level 2 traits are usually much better than level 1 traits.

[] [Lesson] The bonds between warriors

This is a powerfuly reflection on Symphony, but a potentially dangerous one. United bonds of cameraderie is very powerful for maintaining order of battle and discipline, but united warriors also have this distressing tendency of taking over the government too easily.

[] [Lesson] The importance of maintaining training

Swords and Ploughshares evolution. Might make Levies less painful in the future or possibly expand the Ploughshares bonus Martial to include Wealth?

[] [Lesson] The glory of a good death

Evolves Honorable Death. Our oldest, never evolved trait. Possibly to some kind of Matyrdom. The opportunity to evolve this is rare.
But incentives to find good ways to die is...iffy.

[] [Lesson] The importance of skilled commanders at all levels

Either evolves Life of Arete(assuming these are all trait evolutions) or else gives us the Sergeants technology from the current body of war veteran commoners.
Evolving this would also be rare.

Gilded Age Diplo Bonus
[] [Diplo] Boost all subordinate loyalty (-15 Diplo)

This is quite cheap, and gives us less worries about the Western colonies, since Loyalty 4 would take 10+ turns to decay even with bad luck, giving us time to react to their issues.

[] [Diplo] Gain a Diplo Hero (-15 Diplo)
[] [Diplo] Gain a Diplo Genius (-20 Diplo)

Potentially good, potentially bad.
A Diplomacy Hero might very well spawn in the Patricians, which would give us such a headache!

[] [Diplo] Alter Subordinate Management (-10 Diplo, -1 Diplo per landed subordinate/turn)

This is amazing, because it institutes term limits in governors, and makes it harder to rebel. It's still hideously expensive until we find some Diplo source.

If we weren't paying out the nose to prevent slavery, pay for iron and subsidize mines this would be great as we overflow in to deal with it

[] [Diplo] Begin Boundary Passage Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Diplo)

This blows the Urban Poor quest. Otherwise would have been a good idea.

[] [Diplo] Materials Tech (-12 Tech)

Spends tech we need to preserve.
Probably some kind of boat or road building related tech?

Gilded Age Culture Bonus
[] [Culture] Gain a Cultural Hero (-15 Culture)
[] [Culture] Gain a Cultural Genius (-20 Culture)

Never had one of these before. This would also be a great time to get one since we have major cultural glue problems. Significant synergy with Proclaim Glory, Festivals and The Law.

[] [Culture] Upgrade a random value (-18 Culture)

Roll the jackpot. Probably not ideal at present. It's both expensive and new values are disruptive at a time we're juggling firebombs.

[] [Culture] Begin Classical Law Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Culture)

Starts Law early. We DO want to start a megaproject to take advantage of Megaproject support, but we can't afford two megaprojects at once. We also wanted to do the Great Library before the Law IIRC.

[] [Culture] Material Tech (-12 Tech)

Spends tech we need to preserve.
Probably some kind of ceramic tech.

[] [Culture] Nothing

Gilded Age Mysticism Bonus
[] [Mystic] Gain a Mystic Hero (-15 Mysticism)
[] [Mystic] Gain a Mystic Genius (-20 Mysticism)
[] [Mystic] Gain a Prophet (-15 Mysticism)

Interesting that Prophets are independent of Mystic Geniuses and Heroes. However we don't need Tech or religious reform right now.
This would be a VERY BAD time for a Prophet too.

[] [Mystic] Gain a new Spiritual Value slot (-15 Mysticism)

Nothing to put in the slot that we'd like.

[] [Mystic] Unlock Philosopher Kings for further advancement (-20 Mysticism)

...lets build the Great Library first mkay?

[] [Mystic] Gain a new trait slot for Mylathadysm (-12 Mysticism)

This is actually pretty good. Religious trait slots are rare and powerful. In the current climate I think we can enshrine something interesting for limiting noble privilege?
Might be dangerous too.

[] [Mystic] Begin Great Library Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Mysticism)

Perfect time for this.

[] [Mystic] Materials Tech (-12 Tech)

I'm guessing this would be the crucible steel next step.
But it could also be a whole array of alchemical options.

Of course, not all was well. It sounded like Freehills was having major trouble in all along their western borders, where the People knew little because there had never been much reason to go past the Trelli strait aside from curiosity, and there had always been more important things to do. It sounded like the Tin Tribes opposed to the Freehills were trying to conquer back the foothills around their more mountainous terrain while Saffron Islanders attacked in numbers from the sea. The Freehills hadn't officially asked for help yet - they could be very proud about such things - but they certainly might.
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Huh, @Academia Nut, is that a Pride In Independence value there?

In the south the Harmurri were still reeling from nearly being conquered by the Highlanders and were in a major state of flux. Either one of the warrior bands that had been able to resist the Highlanders long enough for the People to show up would unify the Harmurri, or they would implode into a right mess.
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Harmurri needs a Trade Mission. Possibly a Salt Gift to save them from total social collapse.

The Storm Ymaryn were apparently quite content to improve their infrastructure and make money shipping ore to the People, although it sounded like they were sending out more warriors drawn from northern steppe tribes into the south and west of their territory.
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Sounds like slave raiding to finance mine expansions. Iron ore must be stupidly lucrative with the subsidy.
Meanwhile, the Forhuch had reported back on their mission to the Salt Sea.

...

The bloody nomads the People had been fighting had wandered over there and claimed the title of "Protector of the Sacred Salt".
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...so much salt.

Oh well the next bunch will wipe them out. It's not very defensible.

Now that they had better access, the People had a better picture of the situation. There was a religious society that was apparently ancient and unchanging that lived in the mountains bordering the shores of the salt sea, and the nomads basically left them alone in exchange for access to the salt and sacred sites there. The Salt Sea itself was by all accounts essentially dead, but there were all sorts of rivers and streams that fed into it so people could live in the region - it was still either rough mountains or steppe all around though - so the priests had little ability to oppose the nomad tribes around them, but they didn't, they just offered up the title of "Protector" and offered significant benefits to the strongest group, and never contested it when the title changed hands. It sounded like the latest chieftain of the nomads had decided to play nice after his father had earned glory fighting against the People and then got out while the getting was good.
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So basically this is what the Spirit Talkers were trying to do back then. These guys succeeded, and they turned into a protected position JUST too difficult to oust by force, running off the Salt Sea wealth, Silk Road wealth and pilgrimage power, with a high level temple in the mountains.

Clever deal really, though they'd never be a big power.

And apparently if one Sailed across the Salt Sea or walked the steppes north of the mountains, there were even stranger lands beyond that, with various exotic goods coming across the sea. To the south of the mountains and deserts there was another mysterious land that the Harmurri spoke of as the source of cotton. This made Alyxunmyn think of all the various strange things that the People had only barely explored.
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That'd be India then.

They had only had very loose contact with the Khemetri in centuries - most word of what they were up to came through Freehills by way of Saffron Island traders, which meant that in recent years even that contact had dried up - and Amber Road continued to be an outpost in the middle of nowhere that brought in a trickle of rare goods from the far north from the various tribal groups. Those groups were pretty lucky that the People were disinclined to conquer them, given that many had no native metalworking capacity, and those that did were still mostly working in soft metals.
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...you know, I'm 90% sure our traders are selling iron weapons and tools to the nearby friendly tribes...this will be fun down the line.

Huh. Given that the Saffron Islanders were giving Freehills a hard time, they had to have iron, if only from trade. Alyxunmyn had never heard anything particularly impressive from the far west, so he wondered what might have happened out in that direction with iron equipped warriors with no compelling reason not to conquer up against small tribes armed with bronze at best and stone most of the rest of the time.

Huh.

That could be a problem now that Alyxunmyn had the full set of reports to think about it.
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*Adds to list of civilizations we collateral damaged*

And then my actual vote involves a lot of approval voting because this late in the game due to vote opening an hour after I went to bed...sigh.
[X] [Parl] Cement Production Subsidies (Main Increase Cement Production, Patricians disapprove)
[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)
[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ) x2
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [React] Contact Freehills (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [PSN] Main Plant Cash Crops - Textiles (-2 Centralization + Costs)
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Centralization + Costs)
[X] [Lesson] The importance of skilled commanders at all levels
[X] [Diplo] Boost all subordinate loyalty (-15 Diplo)
[X] [Diplo] Nothing
[X] [Culture] Gain a Cultural Hero (-15 Culture)
[X] [Culture] Gain a Cultural Genius (-20 Culture)
[X] [Culture] Nothing
[X] [Mystic] Begin Great Library Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Mysticism)

Approval voting to make sure we got everything lined up for the Urban Poor.
 
So, everyone seems to be in a tizzy about the Saffron Isles. Not that I think we have to go to war with them, but if we do...

More Warships [Guilds][Traders] - Many standard boats are no longer things need to worry about, but warships are something else entirely
*S: -3 Econ, -4 Wealth, -2 Martial; +1 Naval, additional effects
*M: -3 Econ, -8 Wealth, -3 Martial; +2 Naval, additional effects

If done as a faction repeat:

More Warships [Guilds][Traders] - Many standard boats are no longer things need to worry about, but warships are something else entirely
*M: -3 Econ, -4 Wealth, -2 Martial; +2 Naval, additional effects

That's some really cheap Naval. But wait, there's more! We have 3 Guild actions!

3xM: -9 Econ, -12 Wealth, -6 Martial; +6 Naval, additional effects

That's right. We could conceivably produce 6 Naval per turn, and it wouldn't even be that draining. Martial is easily covered by a Sec Raise Army for the most part. It would pump up the Guild power a huge amount, but when the alternative is fighting a war without Naval, that is tolerable. If the war starts up after we finish the Ironworks 4, the cost becomes:

3xM: -9 Econ, -6 Wealth, -3 Tech, -6 Martial; +6 Naval, additional effects

Saffron Isles ain't got shit on Ironworks :V


Obviously this is a bit silly and overkill. Point is, we can get pretty swole on Naval fast if we want to. Once we get Trader actions up, we can even do so without further empowering the Guilds.
 
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Who wants to bet that a large part of the reason for the Saffron Islanders invading the freehills is so that they can trade directly with us? :V
 
065tdsa said:
They probably hate Freehills for the same reason we hated Trelli. That damn strait.

We should probably make the bypass canal at some point, even if we need to kick the highlanders of the area first.
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On the bright side, if the Saffron Islanders manage to kick the Freehills out of Trelli, then they will be interested in that canal again!

@Academia Nut how many civs have we accidentally killed offscreen by this point?
 
Citino said:
Who wants to bet that a large part of the reason for the Saffron Islanders invading the freehills is so that they can trade directly with us? :V
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I uh, honestly wouldn't be that surprised.

If the Freehills had anything like Rule of Gold, which we think they do to finance their armies, then they like the yellow shiny a lot. Probably enough to charge a toll. Now as to why they may not be charging one to us? Pick from, we are really really friggin big, they kinda like us, they don't like the people on the other side.

So.... if there is a toll then I could totally see that being a big Saffron motivation.
 
BungieONI said:
I uh, honestly wouldn't be that surprised.

If the Freehills had anything like Rule of Gold, which we think they do to finance their armies, then they like the yellow shiny a lot. Probably enough to charge a toll. Now as to why they may not be charging one to us? Pick from, we are really really friggin big, they kinda like us, they don't like the people on the other side.

So.... if there is a toll then I could totally see that being a big Saffron motivation.
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Don't forget 'we don't really care to explore the med' as another reason why they don't charge us. Makes no sense to piss us off like the Trelli did when they realize we aren't exactly going to take advantage of it.
 
Citino said:
Don't forget 'we don't really care to explore the med' as another reason why they don't charge us. Makes no sense to piss us off like the Trelli did when they realize we aren't exactly going to take advantage of it.
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Mmm yeah. They may not know that we aren't that interested in the Not!Med, but they've probably figured out through observation that we just seem mostly eastern focused.
 
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