- Location
- Staring into the void
If the Saffron Isles have taken over the not!Med, have they conquered the Khem?
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
- Pronouns
- They/Them
We need to find out what happened to the Khem, yeah. AN says the Saffron Islands hit the Mediterranean uncontested, even though the Khem should've had iron. I'm guessing when the plague hit they took the Khem's Mediterranean territories.
Lots of Diplomatic missions, which is why I'm supporting Diplo Hero or Diplo Genius. We need to get on top of this new international situation.
The Trelli strait is pretty narrow right? I wonder if it could be chained.
[X] [Parl] Cement Production Subsidies (Main Increase Cement Production, Patricians disapprove)
[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [React] Contact Freehills (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Centralization + Costs)
[X] [Lesson] The bindings between superiors and subordinates
[X] [Diplo] Boost all subordinate loyalty (-15 Diplo)
[X] [Diplo] Nothing
[X] [Culture] Nothing
[X] [Mystic] None
[X] [Parl] Cement Production Subsidies (Main Increase Cement Production, Patricians disapprove)
[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [React] Contact Freehills (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Centralization + Costs)
[X] [Lesson] The bindings between superiors and subordinates
[X] [Diplo] Boost all subordinate loyalty (-15 Diplo)
[X] [Diplo] Nothing
[X] [Culture] Nothing
[X] [Mystic] None
- Location
- The Middle of the Howling Wilderness
That seems like something we should try to find out! We probably won't be able to squeeze a sailing mission into our next Main turn, but perhaps at the midturn or the turn after next?
Personally, I think the Khem are still around. We know they only abandoned their colonies after the Horseman's Plague, so they hadn't been conquered at that point. Plus, they had iron, so they wouldn't have been the easy pickings that the western Mediterranean tribes would have been.
Mhm. A Diplo hero would be quite valuable.... I'm a little concerned that we're spending too many stats on our Golden Age bonuses though.
- Location
- Canada
[X] [Parl] Cement Production Subsidies (Main Increase Cement Production, Patricians disapprove)
[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)
[X] [React] Settle (Sec New Settlement - Internal Reorg)
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [React] Contact Freehills (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
People gonna 'farm'. Plus Alyx needs to get to know his wife(s).
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Forest (-2 Centralization + Costs)
[X] [PSN] Main Plant Cash Crops - Textiles (-2 Centralization + Costs)
[X] [Lesson] The importance of maintaining training
[X] [Lesson] The importance of skilled commanders at all levels
[X] [Diplo] Begin Boundary Passage Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Diplo)
[X] [Diplo] Nothing
[X] [Culture] Gain a Cultural Hero (-15 Culture)
[X] [Mystic] Gain a new Spiritual Value slot (-15 Mysticism)
[X] [Mystic] None
CUL-TURE HE-RO!
They will write our history.
CUL-TURE HE-RO!
They can sing for you and me.
CUL-TURE HE-RO!
They're works will be how we are seen.
CUL-TURE HE-RO!
Da-ta-ta-ta-da-ta-ta
(I can't think of another line that fits the meter)
Edit: Just learned of Baby boom, some changes were made
[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)
[X] [React] Settle (Sec New Settlement - Internal Reorg)
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [React] Contact Freehills (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
People gonna 'farm'. Plus Alyx needs to get to know his wife(s).
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Forest (-2 Centralization + Costs)
[X] [PSN] Main Plant Cash Crops - Textiles (-2 Centralization + Costs)
[X] [Lesson] The importance of maintaining training
[X] [Lesson] The importance of skilled commanders at all levels
[X] [Diplo] Begin Boundary Passage Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Diplo)
[X] [Diplo] Nothing
[X] [Culture] Gain a Cultural Hero (-15 Culture)
[X] [Mystic] Gain a new Spiritual Value slot (-15 Mysticism)
[X] [Mystic] None
CUL-TURE HE-RO!
They will write our history.
CUL-TURE HE-RO!
They can sing for you and me.
CUL-TURE HE-RO!
They're works will be how we are seen.
CUL-TURE HE-RO!
Da-ta-ta-ta-da-ta-ta
(I can't think of another line that fits the meter)
Edit: Just learned of Baby boom, some changes were made
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
It's possible, I'll admit, but I do think that we can handle it if need be-the primary concern is overflow into Tech, and we can reasonably quickly regenerate lost stats thanks to stat drips and refunds.
Point of order: we could play defensive and let The King Still Stands hollow them out.
That said, I'm not sure they'd want to fight us. It sounds like they're having a good time conquering unsuspecting tribes. Would they really want to give that up to engage in a struggle with a superpower? We need to keep them in mind, sure, but let's not assume anything. We just learned about them.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm really not at all convinced we can do that. Don't we have to stop them from conquering our subordinates or face stability hits?
They need prestige to keep all of their many, many subordinates in line, probably.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
The minute they take a permanent land holding they lose said holding. They would be able to hurt our subordinates but they wouldn't be able to properly take them.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
They want the Straits (back? They're Trelli successors, do they have some kind of reclamation CB?). We don't want them to have the straits. Thus, we'll have to fight. I'd prefer to broker peace between them and Freehills if possible and invite them to the Games to be friends, of course.
I just had a fun idea.
We are going to be Freeing two cities next turn. That leaves the Guilds with five (!) Main actions, one of which we've taken over. I imagine the Guilds are going to put it to good use building the Ironworks... but once that is done, depending on how the Guilds use those action, we should consider hijacking ALL of them. Remember, factions gain 1 power/turn if more than a third of their actions are hijacked, but it doesn't matter how much they are over a third. This way, we immediately neuter their ability to mess with us, for the relatively cheap cost of 1 power per turn.
Obviously, we don't do this unless we think the Guilds are likely to act against our interests, since they can use the actions far better than we can, as Mains instead of Secondaries.
We are going to be Freeing two cities next turn. That leaves the Guilds with five (!) Main actions, one of which we've taken over. I imagine the Guilds are going to put it to good use building the Ironworks... but once that is done, depending on how the Guilds use those action, we should consider hijacking ALL of them. Remember, factions gain 1 power/turn if more than a third of their actions are hijacked, but it doesn't matter how much they are over a third. This way, we immediately neuter their ability to mess with us, for the relatively cheap cost of 1 power per turn.
Obviously, we don't do this unless we think the Guilds are likely to act against our interests, since they can use the actions far better than we can, as Mains instead of Secondaries.
Menolith
Poster #965953
- Location
- Up North
Well, we didn't want to fight the Khemetri and I don't think they really wanted to get into the slugfest either.
The Sun King just couldn't deal with the prestige loss and we refused to kneel, so Bloodvalley happened anyway. There might be a similar situation with the Islanders where both parties would be happier without making any contact at all.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
They're unrelated to the Trelli culturally. The Trelli set up some plantations in their territory but never conquered them all. After the Trelli got kicked out they took over enough trade connections to the Tin Tribes through the south-western (not!Adriatic Sea and river routes) paths to maintain connection to the iron trade, and from there subsequently developed their native ship building capacity (with some hints from limited and second hand contact with you) to dominate the western-Med iron trade. It sounds like they have their own iron working capacity, even if everyone prefers the People's goods when they can get them.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
New! Friends!
Boy, I'm sad we haven't had time to go say hi before now. They sound like interesting people. And I bet growing up on a bunch of islands then shooting up to a superpower has done neat things culturally.
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That was obvious enough though?
History is an extended back and forth between the following:
-The Crown, the Crown Council nobility and the Bureaucracy always moved to take land back from the nobility where possible. However, this was always hugely unpopular with the upper nobility, more commonly, land was reclaimed from the lower nobility to the state via various strategems when the upper nobility didn't snap it up first.
-The upper nobility always moved to take land from the Crown, often by offering bribes and incentives. This was more successful against weak kings, which our system had sort of made very rare.
-The upper nobility always moved to take land from the lower nobility, frequently from conquest and inter-vassal warfare.
-The upper nobility steadily lost land to the lower nobility through inheritance as families expanded and holdings were spread out.
Ultimate long term result of this struggle: European Bordergore, where jurisdiction had nothing to do with administrative effectiveness or natural borders so much as where and how the various nobility gripped on.
China avoided this fate ironically through regular nomad invasions, where the nobility was simply wiped out and their land repossesed by a powerful conquerer, which allowed either the conquerer, or whoever drives them off to reclaim the land and then slowly fragment by doling it out again. They wound up having land split into relatively simple administrative districts instead.
Hence, the river does not, in itself, enable block housing, because disease management was critical to doing so.
The two necessary elements of Block Housing then is:
-Disease resistance(we needed all three because we had stricter hygiene laws, but you can expect the Khemetri to need at least two)
--Aqueducts
--Baths
--Sacred Warding
-Food availability to city population
--Panem
--Food production natural wonder(Lowlands, Nile, China's Great Rivers)
--Bulk Transport(Harbors, canals, but later on railways should do similar things)
Is it though? It means that we prioritize health enough that we can deliberately overload infrastructure for public health purposes.
Aqueducts beyond city support level aren't too different from Baths beyond aqueduct support level. In aqueducts, the added cost reflects the technical difficulty of building larger and more extensive plumbing networks.
In baths the added cost reflects the costs of either manually bringing in additional water for their uses(which considering how much Baths cost, is substantially reflected by a doubling) or work efficacy losses from industries making use of waste water outflow
Like, I dont want to be a dick, but you really remind me of the people who were explaining to me how we were totally capable of casually stomping the Trelli back before our first disastrous war against them.
It would of course be nice if your analysis were spot on, but AN wouldnt hype these dudes so much if they were a bunch of babies.
Reminder that we absolutely COULD have done it, both times, if we had done the smart thing and gone straight for their city instead of "Hmm, I could punch them in the head or punch them in the foot, Imma punch the foot.", and then left us prosecuting a long land war with no surprise rather than a surprise attack on their capital before they realized they needed to defend themselves.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Incidentally, I hope Freehills has that place better defended than the Trelli did, because we really can't afford to have them lose it.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
@Academia Nut has the Sacred Warding begun to spread a bit with our religious dominance?
If not, I expect it to play a massive role in keeping disease down in our cities. Outbreaks of smallpox were not uncommon for thousands of years.
If not, I expect it to play a massive role in keeping disease down in our cities. Outbreaks of smallpox were not uncommon for thousands of years.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
They don't quite understand where it came from, or the full idea, but nomad groups have a weaker version from talking with the People, as well as general variolation (taking pus from an infected person and applying it to others and hoping you get a weaker strain of smallpox, rather than using cowpox). How far it has spread is hard to tell. The Storm Ymaryn have kept most of the process, although their less robust religious and bureaucratic infrastructure has degraded its infrastructure. So long as their core is still intact the Khemetri are probably still doing it and it could have spread from them.
Sea Wolves
- Location
- The Middle of the Howling Wilderness
Figure i'll try my hand at this whole "Negaverse" thing...
[X][Colo] Increase taxes on the Western Colonies to sustain the war effort (+5 Econ, + 3 Wealth, chance of loyalty losses, ????)
[X] [React] More Men! (Raise Army)
The messages raced from the Palace, out to the docks of Knossos, and thence on swift courier-boats to all the cities of the Islanders: The war would continue, your forces would drive back the armies of Freehills until your armies were at the gates of the Golden City itself. The streets of Knossos were filled with the sounds of rumbling carts carrying supplies down to waiting warships, of soldiers sparing and carousing, and, constantly, the ring of hammer on anvil as your smiths worked to outfit sailor and warrior alike with blade and spear.
To support this new offensive, messages flow east with the swift khamsin winds, to the fields of the Barbarian Peninsula, and the Gold Coast, and the Great Island, ordering the landlords and mine-masters and slavekeepers of the Western Colonies to send grain and wood and iron. These bounties return on great ships to Malia, Thera, Phaistos, and Great Knossos, where your artisans shape them into ships, and spears and all the panoply of war.
There is some grumbling in among the patriarchs of the colonies, but even these new, more onerous demands don't even hold a candle to the seemingly endless bounty of the West.
So equipped, the warriors launch into their attacks on Freehills with renewed vigor. While still not as heavily armed and armored as the Freehill's heavy infantry, the men of the Isles outnumber then heavily, and you find that their brutally effective formations fare poorly on rough terrain, allowing you to score several important victories. In the east, raids by your ships on Freehill's colonies inflict a devastating defeat on their local garrisons, and your marines loot and burn several fortified settlements near the coast. In the North, armies of the Saffron Isles drive back the Republican forces in a brutal, grinding campaign through the hilly terrain of Freehill's western territories. Even their damnable Warmaster cannot seem to stop your advance, though several times he manages to maneuver the slow-moving Freehill armies skillfully enough that your own troops must face them on his terms. There, you discover that their spear-blocks are still as lethally effective as they've always been.
While your armies are making progress against the damnable eastern Republic, the casualties and expenses continue to mount, and some among the Revered Elders have begun to suggest that forcing the easterners to the table would be prudent. Still, the bellicose faction amongst your highest council believes that true victory to be close at hand.
What to do about the war?
[War] Keep pressing them! Glorious victory approaches!
[War] Hold on to and fortify your current gains
[War] Negotiate a treaty
(AN: I'm sorry if your Negaverse counterpart doesn't sound like you... or... the opposite of you? This is my first negaverse omake, and I'm kinda rushing it
)
Sea Wolves
[X][War] Press deeper into Freehill territory[X][Colo] Increase taxes on the Western Colonies to sustain the war effort (+5 Econ, + 3 Wealth, chance of loyalty losses, ????)
[X] [React] More Men! (Raise Army)
The messages raced from the Palace, out to the docks of Knossos, and thence on swift courier-boats to all the cities of the Islanders: The war would continue, your forces would drive back the armies of Freehills until your armies were at the gates of the Golden City itself. The streets of Knossos were filled with the sounds of rumbling carts carrying supplies down to waiting warships, of soldiers sparing and carousing, and, constantly, the ring of hammer on anvil as your smiths worked to outfit sailor and warrior alike with blade and spear.
To support this new offensive, messages flow east with the swift khamsin winds, to the fields of the Barbarian Peninsula, and the Gold Coast, and the Great Island, ordering the landlords and mine-masters and slavekeepers of the Western Colonies to send grain and wood and iron. These bounties return on great ships to Malia, Thera, Phaistos, and Great Knossos, where your artisans shape them into ships, and spears and all the panoply of war.
There is some grumbling in among the patriarchs of the colonies, but even these new, more onerous demands don't even hold a candle to the seemingly endless bounty of the West.
So equipped, the warriors launch into their attacks on Freehills with renewed vigor. While still not as heavily armed and armored as the Freehill's heavy infantry, the men of the Isles outnumber then heavily, and you find that their brutally effective formations fare poorly on rough terrain, allowing you to score several important victories. In the east, raids by your ships on Freehill's colonies inflict a devastating defeat on their local garrisons, and your marines loot and burn several fortified settlements near the coast. In the North, armies of the Saffron Isles drive back the Republican forces in a brutal, grinding campaign through the hilly terrain of Freehill's western territories. Even their damnable Warmaster cannot seem to stop your advance, though several times he manages to maneuver the slow-moving Freehill armies skillfully enough that your own troops must face them on his terms. There, you discover that their spear-blocks are still as lethally effective as they've always been.
While your armies are making progress against the damnable eastern Republic, the casualties and expenses continue to mount, and some among the Revered Elders have begun to suggest that forcing the easterners to the table would be prudent. Still, the bellicose faction amongst your highest council believes that true victory to be close at hand.
What to do about the war?
[War] Keep pressing them! Glorious victory approaches!
[War] Hold on to and fortify your current gains
[War] Negotiate a treaty
notbad said:
CalzoneMan said:
16bit_Sam said:
Abby Abnormal said:
veekster said:
University Legume said:
BungieKAMI said:
University Legume said:
WyvernTautology said:
University Legume said:... You'll seeWyvernTautology said:
Tableware said:
Pikachu1453 said:
Orca said:
(AN: I'm sorry if your Negaverse counterpart doesn't sound like you... or... the opposite of you? This is my first negaverse omake, and I'm kinda rushing it
)
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VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
=_= A mystic focused state that works themselves into nomadic ecosystem by displacing or merging their less developed/organized faith? Looks like these Salt Mountain people intents to form symbiotic relationship with Nomadic culture group as a whole rather than spending effort to fighting various tribes. Troublesome, nomads with external memory and faith advisers will be annoying to fight against.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
I completely forgot we gave it to them.
- Location
- Sleeping Somewhere
Guys can we try to not have 4 megaprojects running at once? Please? I know megaprojects are great but really. Ahh well. On to my vote.
[X] [Parl] Cement Production Subsidies (Main Increase Cement Production, Patricians disapprove)
[X] [PSN] Main Plant Cash Crops - Textiles (-2 Centralization + Costs)
[X] [React] Celebrate (Sec Improve Annual Festival)
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)
Celebrate to further improve our stability, contact the Harmurri to check if they are going to implode on us, and farm to round it all out.
[X] [Lesson] The bindings between superiors and subordinates
For me, it is between this and "The importance of skilled commanders at all levels". I however I am choosing this because subordinate loyalty is something we have had a huge problem with and I think evolving this trait further will help immensely.
[X] [Diplo] Alter Subordinate Management (-10 Diplo, -1 Diplo per landed subordinate/turn)
I am worried people are overlooking the value of this option due to being distracted by the possibility of a hero, or another megaproject, when in actuality this is a amazing option! Reworking our subordinate management should majorly help our society! It will be costly sure, but if we invite a few more countries to the games we should be fine.
[X] [Culture] Nothing
[X] [Culture] Upgrade a random value (-18 Culture)
[X] [Culture] Gain a Cultural Hero (-15 Culture)
I want to start the Library before we start the law megaproject.
[X] [Mystic] Begin Great Library Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Mysticism)
This is something we need to get done, so I am will to put the value slot on hold for it. (as usual...)
[X] [Parl] Cement Production Subsidies (Main Increase Cement Production, Patricians disapprove)
[X] [PSN] Main Plant Cash Crops - Textiles (-2 Centralization + Costs)
[X] [React] Celebrate (Sec Improve Annual Festival)
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)
Celebrate to further improve our stability, contact the Harmurri to check if they are going to implode on us, and farm to round it all out.
[X] [Lesson] The bindings between superiors and subordinates
For me, it is between this and "The importance of skilled commanders at all levels". I however I am choosing this because subordinate loyalty is something we have had a huge problem with and I think evolving this trait further will help immensely.
[X] [Diplo] Alter Subordinate Management (-10 Diplo, -1 Diplo per landed subordinate/turn)
I am worried people are overlooking the value of this option due to being distracted by the possibility of a hero, or another megaproject, when in actuality this is a amazing option! Reworking our subordinate management should majorly help our society! It will be costly sure, but if we invite a few more countries to the games we should be fine.
[X] [Culture] Nothing
[X] [Culture] Upgrade a random value (-18 Culture)
[X] [Culture] Gain a Cultural Hero (-15 Culture)
I want to start the Library before we start the law megaproject.
[X] [Mystic] Begin Great Library Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Mysticism)
This is something we need to get done, so I am will to put the value slot on hold for it. (as usual...)
I wouldn't worry too much about our settled rivals. Since players plan to free up cities, we'll get a higher number of total cities than ever. And many bigger than before, what with the guilds and urban poor growing in power due to the urban bias and productive quests.
So we'll likely spit out the black plague in a couple of centuries.
So we'll likely spit out the black plague in a couple of centuries.
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The Passage megaproject is neck-and-neck with None for the Diplomacy vote. If you don't want to be running too many megaprojects (Dam AND Library AND Passage), consider approval voting for "[Diplo] None" to help make sure that we don't get the Passage started.