Paths of Civilization

Abby Normal · Jul 29, 2017

Analysis and Diffcheckers -- "Epic Age V"

Diff Checker (Civ Sheet)
Diff Checker (Civ Sheet BBCode)

Academia Nut said:
General
Diplomacy 16 [+1]
Economy 16 [-2+12]
-Sustainable Forests 10/11
-Econ Expansion 6 [+2-12]
Martial 8 (+4) {13}
Wealth 14 [+5-5]

Martial 12 (+2) -> 8 (+4)
So 4 war losses, but another +2 veterancy to pay out next turn. Definitely a costly turnaround, but at least our medics keep a lot of the casualties from being fatalities...
Wealth 12 -> 14
Also apparently we gained 2 wealth from looting, sweet

Also @Academia Nut we should have [+5 - 4] as our wealth ticker now, since one of the Khemetri mercs folded into the others.

Academia Nut said:
Cultural
Culture 6
Mysticism 13 (+1) [+1]
Tech 4
Prestige 64

Prestige 61 -> 64:
Another 3 prestige...at this rate we'll have 80 by the time this damn turn is over. We already have 7 more than when this war over prestige started, for Crow's sake!

Academia Nut said:
Stability
Stability -1 (anxious)
Legitimacy 3 (max)

Stab 2 -> -1:
2 - 2 (Kicked war missions) - 1 (Divine Stewards Penalty) = -1
Ouch, so having extra sub-turns from stronger war missions has a downside... the Divine Stewards penalty can trigger each subturn :/ So we need to be extra careful of our stab now.

Academia Nut said:
Periphery States (8/9+3) (Loyalty [L], Dependence [D])
Stallion Tribes (March) - Eliminates raids from the north and mitigates raids from the east, can provide military advances and supports the Western Wall (L: 5/5, D: 2/5)
Western Wall (Colony) - Expands to produce new provinces and find new resources, and can take be brought into wars to the north and west (L: 5/5, D: 1/5)
Gulvalley (Colony) - Expands to produce new provinces and find new resources, and can take be brought into wars to the south, south-east, and south-west (L: 5/5, D: 3/5) THREATENED WAR LOSS
Greenshore Colony (Colony) - Settles the territory on the west coast of the sea (L: 5/5, D:4/4)
Red Banner Company (Mercenary Company) - Can be hired to other kingdoms for wealth, or maintained to boost Martial capacity (L: 5/5)
Heaven's Hawks (March) - Eliminates raids from the north-east, can provide military advances and supports the Stallion Tribes (L:4/5, D: 2/5)
Txolla (Vassal-Colony) - Foreign territory under your control, follows you in war but has own agenda, restricted to expansion through settlement (L: 5/5, D: 4/5)
Tinriver Trading Post (Trading Post) - Increases trade power for all Tin Tribe products, provides a market for an extra saltern (L: 5/5, D: 4/4)

Txolla is no longer in danger and is back up to 5 loyalty! Yes! ...Of course, now Gulvalley is in danger of being lost, and from what AN said, if we didn't have a major advantage in both equipment and our divine stewards fighting-on-home-territory bonus we'd have already lost both them and Red Banner (Speaking of @Academia Nut should Red Banner also be in red with threatened war loss?)

Academia Nut said:
Legacy Gained!
The King Still Stands: Whenever someone uses the Take the Crown CB on you or you are engaged in a struggle for King of the Hill, every full turn they fail to knock you out they lose 1 Stability

Oooh, interesting... not as wide-reaching as i'd hoped/expected, but i suppose those are the wars we need to be most worried about anyway? Not super useful right now, since the Khemetri can burn Religious Authority instead of stab, but if we do manage to kill their god king hero with our demon savant general genius... then it'll just be more pain for them each turn

Academia Nut said:
She had always been a strange child, a disturbed child, prone to strange episodes and fits.

*thinks back to discussion of Joan d'arc* wait...

Academia Nut said:
She had always been a strange child, a disturbed child, prone to strange episodes and fits. She sometimes claimed to see things that others couldn't, or would fall into fey moods where she wouldn't talk to anyone and would instead trace out strange designs that only she could see. If given something like clay or wax to trace with, she produced vaguely unsettling images of ill portent. Her family had tried to help her be 'normal' for many years, but ultimately priests called by the shaman had come to take her to the Temple of the Dragon where she could be given aid for her condition.

Yesssssss. I mean...i suppose it would have been better in terms of what this will tell the People about women in war if she were less...seemingly insane, but still, i finally got my Daughter of the North martial hero

Academia Nut said:
She fit in there even worse.

Away from family and with the priests and shamans trying to teach her things she struggled to understand, her fits became increasingly violent in character. Fortunately her older brother soon started to visit, and this pool of familiarity helped calm her. Eventually the priests decided to just let her wander under escort through the sacred channels, to trace out the bones of the dragons buried in the earth and stumble into trances full of glossolalia. What these moments meant remained elusive, but the priests kept track of it.

And then one day her brother came to her, now more a young woman than a girl, and she told him that he had a crow on his shoulder and even though she kept telling the crow to go away, it wouldn't leave. When her brother left on the caravan she had one of her worst fits yet, and then fell into a quiet, numb fugue.

Huh...can't tell if this means she has heroic/excellent mysticism too, or if thats just to fit the Joan d'arc bit with visions of death...

Academia Nut said:
When the remains of the caravan returned from being turned back by the now hostile Thunder Horse, she began to laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh. It grew increasingly broken as her hysterics overtook her, her voice breaking into a harsh crackle and hiss. Finally she went limp in the arms of the priests struggling to keep her from hurting herself worse than she already was, the last sounds past her lips a ravaged laugh more like that of a crow's caw than anything human.

The next day, she was gone from her room.

Man, her origin story is actually really sad too

Academia Nut said:
A moon later a Heaven's Hawk warband was nearly sent screaming into the night when a blood drenched spectre appeared from the blackness, bearing the head of a Thunder Horse commander and his sword. Dropping the only items she had at the feet of the terrified guards, she then went to a tent and began to finger paint in blood a representation of the dragon skull that was the pride of the Dragon Graveyard and the Temple of the Dragon. Eventually she began to hiss, unable to speak fully and looking for attention. One brave warrior got in close enough to her to hear her whisper in a ravaged voice, "The crows listen better now." She then blinked a few times and then collapsed, a puppet with her strings cut.

...Really badass as well, of course =D Also... "his sword". @Academia Nut do the TH have full-on proper swords now? Do we?

Academia Nut said:
The next day, when the warriors went to engage the enemy, not only were they without their leader but strange young woman whispered directions into the ear of the commander, telling him where the crows were flying and landing. From this mad, otherworldly advice his band went wheeling about like maniacs and managed to completely cut the enemy to ribbons with minimal losses.

Thus was Yenyna the Dragon General born.

Huh...that was easier than i'd have expected to take control...

Academia Nut said:
Clearly cohabiting her body with a particularly dangerous spirit, the wild eyed woman's moods and fits remained mercurial outside of battle, but once it came time to engage the enemy she fell into a trance and whispered directions. If pressed into an actual fit herself, she was a hissing and snarling monster like that of the creature on her banner. Unrefined at first, she did take lessons from the warriors that followed her, and, as the Hawks and Stallions cut through Thunder Speaker territory faster than the messengers could get the word of their successes out, she became quite adept with blade and spear.

Wow, the Thunder Speakers cannot catch a break... @Academia Nut i don't suppose their rampage did any damage to their temple(s), or their suitability as a pilgrimage site?

Academia Nut said:
By the time the northern tribes finished bulling their way through the Thunder Horse's western territories and boring out the supply trains supporting the fighting over Txolla, she was also competent at horse riding and the overall commander for the combined army. One part general, one part talisman, one part avenging spirit of fury, she was the eerie and untouchable torch that the army rallied around.

Oooh, horseback riding... @Academia Nut i don't suppose anyone has started fighting on horse back yet? Or is it still only scouts, couriers, and transportation for ground troops?

Academia Nut said:
The Thunder Horse king had nearly shoved the forces sent to relieve the Txolla back across the Great River when suddenly he found out that his entire supply line had been wiped out so fast the first news he got was his camp lookouts calling out in alarm as chariots and horse riders bearing banners of a white stitched with black thread in the shape of a dragon skull. Fortunately for him, he had not got as far as he had militarily by being stupid and was thus able to rally defences and extricate himself and enough of his warriors to not suffer complete defeat. Knowing that his position was untenable, he abandoned his position and began the process of falling back, out of Txollan territory. Additionally, news was also filtering up about the possibility that the Swamp Folk had decided to pounce upon the Thunder Horse while they were busy with the People.

Aww, we didn't get another hero kill

Hopefully the dice are just saving that for the Khemetri... But wow, that went really quickly...and the swamp folk are actually being useful, yay!

Academia Nut said:
The Thunder Horse wish to call for terms
[] [TH] Accept token tribute (+1 Wealth, +1 Stability, +1 Prestige, end of war)
[] [TH] Demand significant tribute (+4 Wealth, +4 Prestige, end of war)
[] [TH] Reject demands, they need to be dealt with more thoroughly

Huh, i'm surprised there's not a "release thunder speakers" option...i guess that would require more war score? And yeah, i think 1 stab is worth 3 wealth and 3 prestige, especially right now. We're almost certainly going to lose at least one more stab to refugees, defectors (see AN Quotes), divine stewards, and/or kicking in this war, so stab is vital.

Academia Nut said:
Crossing the Great River, Yenyna took her forces into the teeth of the defences of the Highlanders. While less successful with far less room to maneuver, her mad insights still gave her an edge, and one settlement established to defend a pass was taken with minimal bloodshed when she ordered a small canal dug from a nearby river, diverting the flow to begin undercutting their walls, causing them to open their gates in surrender before warriors could actually going in through a breech. That was a level of crazy that was hard to deal with.

Haha, don't even need to bring up the siege ram XD

Academia Nut said:
Unfortunately, while the People had pushed the Highlanders back, the kingdom's core was hard and dense and they were not easily dislodged, especially from their positions in the west. This meant that the warriors in Gulvalley and Lower Hatvalley went nearly entirely unsupported for the entire time.

That said...the downside to our priority choices...

Academia Nut said:
When messengers finally got through to Gulvalley the forces there had been almost entirely pushed back into walled settlements. One of the Trelli mercenary companies had been so badly mauled that the survivors were folded into the other two, and the Red Banner only still existed because what was left of the local warriors had joined under their command. The Hathatyn south-west was almost entirely occupied by the Khemetri and had been utterly ravaged by the fighting. Still, the strongpoints held out, and if relief forces could be brought in soon then they might be able to be relieved...

Ouch! According to AN (see the quote section), they got a ridiculous number of crits, and if we didn't have a major advantage (from equipment and home advantage) we'd have outright lost both Gulvalley and the Red banner company already D= Still, at least the walled cities are still holding... (Also, i'm amused that for all that the dice shat on them, the Hathatyn have gotten a pretty great legacy, since they got to have their name used for Not!Anatolia even centuries after they died. I kind of hope we keep that forever, to honor them)

Academia Nut said:
The Highlanders have been pushed back by still hold out, attempt peace?
[] [HK] Attempt a White Peace (Good chance of being accepted, +1 Stability if accepted)
[] [HK] Attempt to humiliate (Chance of being accepted, +1 Prestige and +1 Stability if accepted)
[] [HK] Attempt to extract tribute (Small chance of being accepted, +2 Prestige and +2 Wealth if accepted)
[] [HK] They need to be taught a lesson, keep fighting

Alas, we've not done as well..still, the stability is again far more important than anything else, and per AN, if we're gonna be in a position to kick their ass soon, then we'll have a CB anyway (see AN Quotes)
Also for anyone worried, white piece gives us our land back:

Academia Nut said:
It means that everything goes back to the way it was at the start of the war, no territory changes hands, and there are no significant reparations/tributes.

So yeah, i say we do white peace

Academia Nut said:
Currently performing two extra war missions for the rest of the turn, pull up further reserves?
[] [Berserk] No
[] [Berserk] 1 Stability
[] [Berserk] 2 Stability
[] [Berserk] 3 Stability (requires Token Tribute from TH)

AN: You want Jeanne D'Arc, you get the Ymaryn Jeanne D'Arc. Also, still not to the mid-turn, but definitely by next turn.

Oh shit, the kick works for hte whole turn...which currently means at least 3 or 4 instances? ...we need to kick nextturn in our initial action, it gives us more bang for our buck. With that in mind, and with the likelihood of refugees, and the risk of more divine stewards hits, and the need to have stab for a potentially really long many turn war, im gonna suggest no kicking right now. Definitely no more than 1, though, and if need be i'll approval vote for it. Also, looks like we get ~4 war sub-turns now...

Academia Nut said:
It can, but it is not guaranteed since you are at war. Essentially the legacy works via people going "Oh shit, their reputation of invincibility is true!", so people fleeing to you would represent defectors a bit more than straight refugees.

Huh, interesting...i hope that triggers then, since defectors would likely be much more likely to have useful info...if nothing else it would be a good way to learn the basics about the Khemetri...

Academia Nut said:
Both. You got three doubles this phase, so I stitched them together into the genius general starting in the north and carving an arc around to the Highlanders. The Khemetri meanwhile also got a boatload of crits on their Heroic Martial king. The material advantage and bonuses for fighting on own territory are why there's still a chance to relieve Gulvalley and recover the Red Banner from annihilation.

Wow...we finally got good rolls in hero-involved war! woo!

So, we need to keep in mind that our success this turn was not "normal" for a genius, it was a lucky one. Likewise, the Khemetri almost destroying the whole southern front in one sub-turn was not normal...though we should plan for them getting it again, without us getting lucky again :/

On the bright side, we now know that their hero is their king...and we know that Yenyna started off her career by assassinating a commander...so let's cross our fingers that she can convince the crow on their God King's shoulders that Dragons are better than Gods... =D

Academia Nut said:
There will be a cooldown of at least one turn before a Treachery CB becomes available for 2 to 3 turns.

So if we're in a position to fight the HK, we'll have a CB. And if we're still stuck in the war with the Khemetri 3-4+ turns from now, then we wouldn't have wanted to waste time fighting the HK now anyway

[X] [TH] Accept token tribute (+1 Wealth, +1 Stability, +1 Prestige, end of war)
[X] [HK] Attempt a White Peace (Good chance of being accepted, +1 Stability if accepted)
[X] [Berserk] No

veekie · Jul 29, 2017

bluefur87 said:
Nope.

We got a Martial Genius, which is like a hero, only better.

We're very good at this yandere thing huh...

Finite · Jul 29, 2017

[x] [TH] Accept token tribute (+1 Wealth, +1 Stability, +1 Prestige, end of war)
[x] [HK] Attempt a White Peace (Good chance of being accepted, +1 Stability if accepted)

Need to come back for HK both for betrayal and logistics, we couldn't allow them to remain strategically located between HV & TX

hYGP · Jul 29, 2017

@Academia Nut Just to satisfy our curiosity, would Alexander the Great be considered a Martial Genius, or are there tiers above Genius?

Citino · Jul 29, 2017

BlueFlamingWings said:
Huh, I guess according to the tag we're officially an empire.

I'm surprised we didn't get anything for that.

We can technically be considered an empire, but most empires are really just states that rule over a diverse group of people more than a prestige thing.

It just happens to be that Empires tend to also be powerful, because to rule over a diverse group, you need to usually be fairly large and stable.

Rakuhn · Jul 29, 2017

If the Trelli didn't practice chattel slavery, I'd feel bad for them for losing a mercenary company.

Raise Army -
*M: -3 Econ, -4 Wealth, +7 Martial, +1 Culture, potential additional effects
Found Mercenary Company -
*S: -8 Martial, -1 Wealth per turn in your employ, +1 Wealth per turn if hired out to another group, or 0 Wealth per turn and adds directly to Martial score

So a loss of six non-martial stats, a main action, and a secondary action. Probably a loss of loyalty from the other two mercenary companies too. And in return, they received 3 wealth.

In other good news, the Trelli's forces have probably been weakened enough that we don't have to be concerned about them selling their services to the Khem.

Abby Normal · Jul 29, 2017

veekie said:
[x] [TH] Accept token tribute (+1 Wealth, +1 Stability, +1 Prestige, end of war)
[x] [HK] Attempt a White Peace (Good chance of being accepted, +1 Stability if accepted)
[x] [Berserk] 1 Stability

...did we just get a Martial Hero called Yanyan-na?

Also missed an update entirely. Hopefully someone captured the stat sheet while I catch up, because backsolve will be an utter bitch.

Here you go:

Abby Normal said:
Analysis and Diffcheckers -- "Epic Age IV"

DocMatoi · Jul 29, 2017

BlueFlamingWings said:
Huh, I guess according to the tag we're officially an empire.

I'm surprised we didn't get anything for that.

The main qualifier for being an empire is 'a disparate group of entities, usually states, answer to a single authority' provinces, subordinates, and the king, anyone?

BungieONI · Jul 29, 2017

Citino said:
Honestly, you kinda have to facepalm at both of them deciding to attack. They tried to attack a Great Power because they thought it would be too busy fighting another Great Power, only to find out what the difference in power is between a normal civ and one considered a Great Power.

It's kinda like a situation in Xianxia where you have two high realm cultivators causally re-configuring the landscape for fun. Annnnnd then these two bosso mid realmers try to get in on one of them and then... Whoops your broken over a knee at Mach 3.

McLuvin · Jul 29, 2017

At the end of this Epic Age there will be a change in the winds of the world.

The Highlanders, cowering in their hills, skulking in their treacherous shadows, will be brought under our heel.

The Trelli, slavers, pirates and heretics all, will be forced to kneel at the base of the Ymaryn throne.

The Khemetri, proud and arrogant, will see their empire shatter and collapse around them. Their Hathatyn Colony ours.

This Epic Age will only end in one way. A Ymaryn Empire! One that stretches from the southernmost hills of the Highlands to the Northern Steppe. An Empire that spans the world from Trelli and the Mountains of the West Cost of the Sea of Yllython to the banks of the Great Lowland River to the East.

That is the only way this Age will end.
And over this Empire we will rule for a thousand years.
A Golden Age of peace, where none will dare fight us.

The Golden Ymaryn Empire.....

PyrrosWarrior · Jul 29, 2017

BlueFlamingWings said:
Huh, I guess according to the tag we're officially an empire.

I'm surprised we didn't get anything for that.

It was added because of a humorous comment along made by a user along those lines rather than because we are officially an empire by WoG, though we might as well be called so.

Malevolo · Jul 29, 2017

[x] [TH] Accept token tribute (+1 Wealth, +1 Stability, +1 Prestige, end of war)
[x] [HK] Attempt a White Peace (Good chance of being accepted, +1 Stability if accepted)
[x] [Berserk] No

HK you had your chance, we avoided setling next to you, but no, you had to backstab us, you know what? Even xohyr had more honor than you, filth, you will be burned, your steles broken, your language forbbiden, so you have to hope that the khem breaks us, because if they do not, xohyr will be childrens play

Golgotha · Jul 30, 2017

[X] [TH] Accept token tribute (+1 Wealth, +1 Stability, +1 Prestige, end of war)
[X] [HK] Attempt a White Peace (Good chance of being accepted, +1 Stability if accepted)
[X] [Berserk] No

No need to be greedy here. Time to focus all (sustainable) firepower on that superstar destroyer.

PyroTechno · Jul 30, 2017

[X] [TH] Accept token tribute (+1 Wealth, +1 Stability, +1 Prestige, end of war)
[X] [HK] Attempt a White Peace (Good chance of being accepted, +1 Stability if accepted)
[X] [Berserk] No

We shall increase Stability, and then when the Khemetri are dead, we shall return and deal with the backstabbers. By "deal with" I do of course mean something incredibly violent.

I like this plan. I'm glad I was a part of it. Let's do this.

veekie · Jul 30, 2017

Abby Normal said:
Here you go:

Bless you!

Andres · Jul 30, 2017

[X] [TH] Accept token tribute (+1 Wealth, +1 Stability, +1 Prestige, end of war)
[X] [HK] Attempt a White Peace (Good chance of being accepted, +1 Stability if accepted)
[X] [Berserk] 1 Stability

So are we SURE magic isn't real!?

VoidZero · Jul 30, 2017

veekie said:
We're very good at this yandere thing huh...

Considering the voter base, it should not come as a surprise. I mean look at some more vocal users about their antics.

Present parties excluding of course.

Painfulldarksoul · Jul 30, 2017

[X] [TH] Accept token tribute (+1 Wealth, +1 Stability, +1 Prestige, end of war)
[X] [HK] Attempt a White Peace (Good chance of being accepted, +1 Stability if accepted)
[X] [Berserk] 1 Stability

TotallyNotEvil · Jul 30, 2017

[X] [TH] Accept token tribute (+1 Wealth, +1 Stability, +1 Prestige, end of war)
[X] [HK] Attempt to humiliate (Chance of being accepted, +1 Prestige and +1 Stability if accepted)
[X] [Berserk] No

Susano · Jul 30, 2017

Also, seeing how our Jeanne D'aenerys led the Stallions and Heaven Hawks.

Andres · Jul 30, 2017

Shit, the Khemetri's successes activated Divine Stewards' con. We're down to Stability -1 instead of Stability 0. I hope the white peace is accepted so we can at least get back to Neutral.

CatOnTheWeb · Jul 30, 2017

So when this is over, and we've recovered some, I vote to make another Merc Company, one that always deploys alongside the Red Banner in war's they're not hired out for. That way, less chance of them dying.

The king Chad · Jul 30, 2017

[X] [TH] Accept token tribute (+1 Wealth, +1 Stability, +1 Prestige, end of war)
[X] [HK] Attempt to humiliate (Chance of being accepted, +1 Prestige and +1 Stability if accepted)
[X] [Berserk] 2 Stability

BungieONI · Jul 30, 2017

Tally!

Vote Tally : Original - Paths of Civilization | Page 3534 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.9.1
Task: TH
[65][TH] Accept token tribute (+1 Wealth, +1 Stability, +1 Prestige, end of war)
[1][TH] Demand significant tribute (+4 Wealth, +4 Prestige, end of war)

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: HK
[54][HK] Attempt a White Peace (Good chance of being accepted, +1 Stability if accepted)
[6][HK] Attempt to humiliate (Chance of being accepted, +1 Prestige and +1 Stability if accepted)
[6][HK] They need to be taught a lesson, keep fighting

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Berserk
[35][Berserk] 1 Stability
[21][Berserk] No
[7][Berserk] 2 Stability
[1][Berserk] 3 Stability (requires Token Tribute from TH)

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: WB
[1][WB] Gain the The King Still Stands Legacy
[1][WB] Upgrade We Have Reserves
[1][WB] Gain a new Honour Code slot

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Hero
[1][Hero] Gain a Genius general

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: War
[1][War] Western Lowlands (Highlanders + Thunder Horse)
[1][War] Txolla (Thunder Horse)

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Kick
[1][Kick] 3 Stability
[1][Kick] 4 Stability
Total No. of Voters: 68

@thatguy's vote is kinda borking things but ehh *shrug*.

OliWhail · Jul 30, 2017

Kiba said:
-1 Assume we lose territory, and HK doesn't accept white peace

Why would we assume that? HK is most likely to accept, meaning we don't lose territory there and get +1 Stab from peaceful resolution.

Timewinders said:
He is a God-King. Defiling his corpse would reduce their religious authority, which they rely on, significantly.

Hm. Maybe we should grind him up and add him to one of the Black Soil pits?

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