BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Hmm...Oh snap!
You might be supplanting Citino as Prophet of the Thread.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
You might be supplanting Citino as Prophet of the Thread.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
The near future is mostly me going back to sleep... I woke up in the middle of the night here.
One thing that got lost in the debate on corruption is how odd the innovation was represented. Normally one would have the refugees being innovation with them. This time it just looked like sheer serendipity, it's not like there was something about the PoV character's past or present position that made her more likely to have a eureka moment.
It boils down to: why would refugees give us trip-hammers when they come from a civ that does not even have mills?
It boils down to: why would refugees give us trip-hammers when they come from a civ that does not even have mills?
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Which I guess is why AN was having trouble parsing the entrails.
About the only thing was that she spent a lot of time pounding iron with a hammer, so yeah serendipity. As it is in quite a few important inventions serendipity was what made them.
And full analysis:
Diplomacy 14 [+2] -> 12 [+2]
-Integrate Vassal -4
-Greenshore +1
-King of the Hill +1
Expected.
Economy 11 (+1) [-2+5] -> 15 [-2+5]
-Refugees +5
-New Trails -2
-Cashout +1
Rolled high-ish on getting refugees.
Econ Expansion 8 (+1) [+2-5] -> 4 (+1) [+2-5]
-Refugees -5
-New Trails +2
-??? -1
Huh, a point went missing somewhere in the transition.
Martial 10 {14} -> 10 {15}
Hello Red Martial-From-Econ. Been a while.
It'd be gone soon enough
Wealth 11 [+5-1] -> 10 [+5-1]
-Ballista Research -3
-??? +2
Where did that money come from?
Stability 2 (hopeful) -> 0 (neutral)
-Refugees -1
-Extra Refugees -1
Ow, right in the schnozz.
Centralization 3 -> 5
-New Trails +2
Still white, the cap is higher than we thought. Which is good, we still need way more roads.
Art 11 -> 8
-Ballista Research -3
Normal enough
Mysticism 15 [+1] -> 15 [+1]
-Ballista research -3
Interestingly @Academia Nut we didn't get a refund from the Library on the Ballista investment?
No change I noticed.
No Legacies gained from Triple Colony. It's probably the Trelli. We'll find out if we keep our colonies I guess.
And I bet they already have the Triple Trade Post too.
And the Triple Mercenaries.
...Oh right they're just following what Phygrif did on his way to Xohyr.
At least as a Colony they'd start culture converting, if we build up the links between us.
The Txolla didn't tell us this was a batch from a new place, and she was too broken down to dare to ask when we explained the laws to her.
Nobody checked that she understood either.
Cheap Regulations to fix this would be to apply oral testing to the refugees to make sure they understood, not just nodded. Actually teaching them the language would be more involved and far more costly.
Solution 1: Festivals after the laws are revised
Probably should have realized that when we picked the Palace sites too. If we built the Palace there it'd only have moved the aqueduct timetable up by 2 turns or so.
Done is done I guess
Here the system is just too complicated for first generation migrants. Normally it's not this bad, because she missed being taught our customs...but then we see some level of malice involved.
You don't need to do anything. Just not do your job properly. She's supposed to be adopted into an existing family or association structure, but she was low value, so nobody particularly wanted to.
Solution 2: Invent lawyers to handle the complexities of the law and mediate between the law and the people.
We have some laws that don't work anymore in the new circumstances. Everyone breaks them.
The law makes no allowances for the new circumstances. Recall the older laws on murder where Talk Shit Get Hit is a legitimate mitigating factor. We have no laws on "theres no work you are qualified for because you're an unskilled laborer who isn't particularly strong"
This is a natural consequence of Best of the Best as well.
There is nothing for Worst of the Worst.
Solution 3: Revise the laws so they reflect the new economy.
The allocations done properly should ensure everyone has minimum wage, but while we HAVE minimum wage, it's being revised on a schedule that's not reflective of how fast the market value shifts.
And while Royal Audience is available as redress, you have to actually know that the process exists. Which she doesn't, because she missed the introductory speech because she didn't speak the language.
...wait a minute, was this the same inn that Rulwyna II managed?
Solution 4: A Census would allow us to revise minimum wage in the Law
Here we have the monthly inspections for prostitutes and the tax collectors...both of who are taking bribes. The shaman(as we see later) overlooks her not taking the proper protections, did not check to see what happened to the children who resulted. The tax collector is skimming off the top to lower her assessed taxes but taking extra for herself.
Which means that when the tallies are checked, the clerks see a frivolous woman who wastes her money rather than someone barely making ends meet.
Solution 5: Fix problems 3 & 4, then Restore Order.
Not much to say here, but the inequalities of the Worst of the Worst means that it's a quality of life improvement to dump your unwanted children at the shrines.
We already have various forms of contraception, but she doesn't know to use them...or a more ominous thought, she doesn't use them because we give extra rations and reduced work to pregnant women, which means for the months she's pregnant she doesn't need to do the labor allocations or the sex work.
Solution 6: This is just caused by all the above problems. Solve them and it goes away. At least the children WILL be adopted in our culture. Thank the lack of Hereditary traits.
Problem 8: Conversion to iron age economy generates large amounts of unskilled labor in an elitist society who'd find it shaming to do unskilled labor.
Solution 7: Reform laws to account for existence of currency
Solution 8: Hammer mills converts it from an unskilled job to a skilled job. This will be accelerated because non-slave cultures will look for ways to get rid of manual work.
You must be willing.
It doesn't say anything about being in a situation where it's the only way to make money.
Who are apparently not doing too well, along with the boat designers. Sigh.
On the bright side, Naha here seems to have caught his eye, so she might be moving up in the world a little.
I'm sure we'd find some other mindless manual labor to dump unskilled people into shortly though.
They got the SPEED, they don't have the control yet.
Now for the hugeass action section. Not copying them unless there's an important highlight
-Art Patronage is now seriously expensive to main, and less efficient(3 in 5 out for secondary, but 5 in 7 out for main), but will likely breakthrough in pottery rapidly to go for the Dominance if we wanted.
I call this the City Popper. The Other Effects should be progress towards early black powder, and ALSO the ability to terraform shitty terrain. Convert an entire forest into fertilizer! This is very useful to cover for the 3 Econ cost projects of course.
-Chariots are going to be outdated soon, and they're really expensive, but they do generate a shitload of martial we have no idea where to put.
-We can no longer get innovations for basic docks(probably capped out all of those thanks to Greenshore spam), but Main docks give innovation rolls now.
-Glassworks math is still weird, but it generates quite a lot of Wealth. A Main should put us pretty close to clear glass.
-Main Mills no longer cost Art, but they generate 4 LTE out of wealth. They're a very good option for a trade power to take.
-Walls have changed so that we automatically have Light walls already, they're no longer worth tracking. They're still quite costly in time and Econ however.
-Watchtowers are surprisingly unchanged.
-Passive Policy is basically super inconvenient to take. I think generally we don't WANT to take any except Infrastructure, Innovation or Defence.
Otherwise unchanged though.
We now actually NEED two True Cities, because a lot more actions cost 2 Econ now.
Secondary Forest generates 1 LTE with 2 Cities.
Main Forest is LTE neutral, but produces forest slots quickly.
The Other Effects is also interesting.
This is actually quite useful to deliberately create 3 True Cities and then convert them to Free Cities for the Passive Policy actions...but this Policy would probably be biased towards their interests, so Sacred Forest would go Mysticism unless Mysticism is maxed, then they'd probably do Innovation or Forestry, and Redshore would probably be doing Trade and switch to Innovation or Infrastructure(to generate Salterns).
This is a pretty powerful mechanic of course, but Free Cities are their own costs.
They can get complicated.
-Festivals are same as before.
We probably need to research bigger boats for Mains to change.
-Northern Blackriver is an amazing site, rich in land and minerals.
-Far Northeastern Redhills meanwhile is barely arable, but good mining site
-South of Cataracts is typical Lowlands, ridiculously rich soil, but no minerals of mention.
Main settelemnts seem to go from planting a village to planting a town. Good if you need Econ expansions or want more provinces, but generally not that much better.
-New Trails doesn't seem to show how much they add to the cap, but based on precedent, taking Mains adds 2 to the cap progress. We'll hit diminishing returns eventually, but take it enough without wasting Centralization and I think we could make Centralization 7 WHITE. The description still says our roads are missing a LOT.
-Poppies, oddly enough, don't generate a new Trade Good at Secondary. Maybe we'd take it some day.
-Proclaim Glory now gives +2 Stability on a Main. Amazing! But legitimacy spent is hard to raise and holy shit it easts a lot of Art. If we have a skilled administrator, Secondary Restore Order + Secondary Proclaim Glory should add 2 Stability more cheaply. Or a main on each would give +2 to +5 Stability, which is the pull out of crash combo.
We definitely need to raise our caps to be able to digest these new warrior actions.
-Restore Order Mains now can add +1 Stability on top of the roll, which is nice.
-Salt Gift Mains now does a Mansa Musa to the target economy if targeted. Reminder that the base Wealth cap for small states is 8.
-Study actions are much more costly overall, but that's to be expected...except Study Stars now returns even more Mysticism. Clearly trying to bribe us into doing it.
-Support Subordinate is cheaper than Influence, but it's a lot more action efficient now and the Loyalty boost is revealed. The Northern Trade Post is now viable, because we can send enough dudes to survive with a single Main and a company.
-Trade Missions got more expensive as Secondary, but more rewarding on Main. You can potentially double your stat point investment with a Main Trade Mission.
-Salterns can now be completed in a single secondary action. We get one every 3 turns of Infrastruture minor policy. They are now LTE negative.
-Aqueducts are a little odder, but the numbers look like a typo in Progress number. One secondary for each, or a Main for Redshore/Blackmouth. Unfortunate, because Redshore and Blackmouth needs them the most. They are now LTE neutral for most sites, and LTE negative for Redshore and Blackmouth.
-Libraries can be done in a single secondary. We'd need them too, mysticism costs have grown substantially.
Colossal Walls are expensive as hell, since they take 3 Main actions to build. We now know why the Stallions are building the Aqueduct, Dragon Graveyard is becoming a True City, so they put in the aqueduct...then put up Massive Walls.
They also let us vent Martial so we can take Blackbirds or Carrion Eaters for innovations.
Major Holy Sites: Rainbow Trail (0/3), Sacred Forest (Temple 0/6), Holy Sea (0/3), Horse Valley (0/3), White Circle (0/3), Warrior's Rest (0/3), Star Mirror (0/3), Sunrise Grove (0/3), Skyforest (0/3), Bloodgrove (0/3), Spiritwell (0/3), Moonwell (0/3), Sparkling Cave (0/3)
Temple sites are now doable in a single secondary action. Upgrading Sacred Forest Temple takes a single Main. Hopefully we have the freedom to build these next turn
Megaprojects are now FAR faster.
-Census and Games can be one turned on Megaproject policy.
-We now know that Grand Docks need 2 Forest slots. We probably can build this pretty soon if we wanted.
Provinces for Projects: Redvalley (Valleyhome+Redhills), Sacred Shore (Redshore+Sacred Forest), Stoneshore (Stonepen + Northshore), Hatshore (Southshore+ Hatriver), Blackiron Province (Blackriver+Ironshore)
And we have the province breakdown!
-Redvalley - This seems to make Valleyhome oversized geographically. Valleyhome is already almost as big as Sacred Shore on it's own. But it's the capital province.
-Sacred Shore - Redshore being combined with Sacred Forest is administratively convenient, by putting the source of wood with the source of boats.
-Hatshore - *Wears hat* Expected this. Might change with Integrating Hatvalley?
-Blackiron - We revealed this previous
Diplomacy 14 [+2] -> 12 [+2]
-Integrate Vassal -4
-Greenshore +1
-King of the Hill +1
Expected.
Economy 11 (+1) [-2+5] -> 15 [-2+5]
-Refugees +5
-New Trails -2
-Cashout +1
Rolled high-ish on getting refugees.
Econ Expansion 8 (+1) [+2-5] -> 4 (+1) [+2-5]
-Refugees -5
-New Trails +2
-??? -1
Huh, a point went missing somewhere in the transition.
Martial 10 {14} -> 10 {15}
Hello Red Martial-From-Econ. Been a while.
It'd be gone soon enough
Wealth 11 [+5-1] -> 10 [+5-1]
-Ballista Research -3
-??? +2
Where did that money come from?
Stability 2 (hopeful) -> 0 (neutral)
-Refugees -1
-Extra Refugees -1
Ow, right in the schnozz.
Centralization 3 -> 5
-New Trails +2
Still white, the cap is higher than we thought. Which is good, we still need way more roads.
Art 11 -> 8
-Ballista Research -3
Normal enough
Mysticism 15 [+1] -> 15 [+1]
-Ballista research -3
Interestingly @Academia Nut we didn't get a refund from the Library on the Ballista investment?
Trade Status
| Resource | Status | Rivals |
| Luxuries | ||
| Amber | Known only | |
| Fine Pottery | Minor | |
| Fine Dye | Dominating | Trelli |
| Fine Textiles | None | Swamp Folk, Trelli |
| Furs | Known only | |
| Gems | Dominating | Trelli, Tin Tribes, Khem (in) |
| Glass | Dominating | |
| Gold | Significant + minor trading (in) | Metal Workers, Khem->Trelli |
| Incense | None | Khem->Trelli |
| Mercury | Dominating | None |
| Silver | Significant (in, needing) | MW, Trelli (in) |
| Salt | Dominating | Trelli |
| Spices | None | (SI+Khem)->Trelli |
| Wine | Dominating | Trelli |
| Strategic | ||
| Copper | Leading | Highlanders, Thunder Horse, MW, Trelli |
| Bronze | Minor | Trelli |
| Slaves | Forbidden | MW (in), Trelli, TT |
| Tin | Minor + Significant Trading | MW (in), TH (in), HK (in), Tin Tribes, Trelli->Khem |
| Iron | Non-traded dominant | None |
| Cultural | ||
| Pilgrimage | Major Competition | Thunder Speakers |
No change I noticed.
Evolved to:
The Txolla are not very happy about being converted and blocked from offensive wars, but now they're dependent on us fully again so they can't do anything about it.
No Legacies gained from Triple Colony. It's probably the Trelli. We'll find out if we keep our colonies I guess.
And I bet they already have the Triple Trade Post too.
And the Triple Mercenaries.
We're working on it, but it's a complex design!
PTSD-chan why you do this. We asked for refugees, not slaves.
...Oh right they're just following what Phygrif did on his way to Xohyr.
At least as a Colony they'd start culture converting, if we build up the links between us.
Problem 1: Communications problem.
The Txolla didn't tell us this was a batch from a new place, and she was too broken down to dare to ask when we explained the laws to her.
Nobody checked that she understood either.
Cheap Regulations to fix this would be to apply oral testing to the refugees to make sure they understood, not just nodded. Actually teaching them the language would be more involved and far more costly.
Solution 1: Festivals after the laws are revised
Transferred to Redshore I think, which we see a True City forming regardless of our opinions on the matter.
Probably should have realized that when we picked the Palace sites too. If we built the Palace there it'd only have moved the aqueduct timetable up by 2 turns or so.
Done is done I guess
Problem 2: System complexity
Here the system is just too complicated for first generation migrants. Normally it's not this bad, because she missed being taught our customs...but then we see some level of malice involved.
You don't need to do anything. Just not do your job properly. She's supposed to be adopted into an existing family or association structure, but she was low value, so nobody particularly wanted to.
Solution 2: Invent lawyers to handle the complexities of the law and mediate between the law and the people.
Problem 3: A law broken by everyone is useless. A law that MUST be broken by everyone is one that encourages further lawbreaking
We have some laws that don't work anymore in the new circumstances. Everyone breaks them.
The law makes no allowances for the new circumstances. Recall the older laws on murder where Talk Shit Get Hit is a legitimate mitigating factor. We have no laws on "theres no work you are qualified for because you're an unskilled laborer who isn't particularly strong"
This is a natural consequence of Best of the Best as well.
There is nothing for Worst of the Worst.
Solution 3: Revise the laws so they reflect the new economy.
Problem 4: Income and Prices are not accurate to market realities.
The allocations done properly should ensure everyone has minimum wage, but while we HAVE minimum wage, it's being revised on a schedule that's not reflective of how fast the market value shifts.
And while Royal Audience is available as redress, you have to actually know that the process exists. Which she doesn't, because she missed the introductory speech because she didn't speak the language.
...wait a minute, was this the same inn that Rulwyna II managed?
Solution 4: A Census would allow us to revise minimum wage in the Law
Problem 5: Corruption is breeding in the wake of Problems 3 & 4. The systematic pretense that the law is still functioning REQUIRES systematic corruption to paper over the problems.
Here we have the monthly inspections for prostitutes and the tax collectors...both of who are taking bribes. The shaman(as we see later) overlooks her not taking the proper protections, did not check to see what happened to the children who resulted. The tax collector is skimming off the top to lower her assessed taxes but taking extra for herself.
Which means that when the tallies are checked, the clerks see a frivolous woman who wastes her money rather than someone barely making ends meet.
Solution 5: Fix problems 3 & 4, then Restore Order.
Problem 6: Child abandonment as a side effect of the massive baby boom.
Not much to say here, but the inequalities of the Worst of the Worst means that it's a quality of life improvement to dump your unwanted children at the shrines.
We already have various forms of contraception, but she doesn't know to use them...or a more ominous thought, she doesn't use them because we give extra rations and reduced work to pregnant women, which means for the months she's pregnant she doesn't need to do the labor allocations or the sex work.
Solution 6: This is just caused by all the above problems. Solve them and it goes away. At least the children WILL be adopted in our culture. Thank the lack of Hereditary traits.
Problem 7: Manual labor allocation requirement is outdated in current economy, requiring breaking the laws to rebalance. Fundamentally is Problem 3
Problem 8: Conversion to iron age economy generates large amounts of unskilled labor in an elitist society who'd find it shaming to do unskilled labor.
Solution 7: Reform laws to account for existence of currency
Solution 8: Hammer mills converts it from an unskilled job to a skilled job. This will be accelerated because non-slave cultures will look for ways to get rid of manual work.
This is our prostitution laws working, just not as well as intended.
You must be willing.
It doesn't say anything about being in a situation where it's the only way to make money.
That's our ballista scientists!
Who are apparently not doing too well, along with the boat designers. Sigh.
On the bright side, Naha here seems to have caught his eye, so she might be moving up in the world a little.
The Eureka moment when you realize that a failed ballista is a perfectly fine hammer mill. Which will solve Problem 8 partially.
I'm sure we'd find some other mindless manual labor to dump unskilled people into shortly though.
The good thing here is, they have the catamarans down.
They got the SPEED, they don't have the control yet.
Now for the hugeass action section. Not copying them unless there's an important highlight
-Art Patronage is now seriously expensive to main, and less efficient(3 in 5 out for secondary, but 5 in 7 out for main), but will likely breakthrough in pottery rapidly to go for the Dominance if we wanted.
-Black Soil allows us to convert a Forest slot and 2 Econ into 6 Econ Expansions. This is VERY interesting, once we get through the megaproject rush period, because the 2 Econ will be refunded by cities, allowing us to create 8 LTE with a single Main.
I call this the City Popper. The Other Effects should be progress towards early black powder, and ALSO the ability to terraform shitty terrain. Convert an entire forest into fertilizer! This is very useful to cover for the 3 Econ cost projects of course.
-Chariots are going to be outdated soon, and they're really expensive, but they do generate a shitload of martial we have no idea where to put.
-We can no longer get innovations for basic docks(probably capped out all of those thanks to Greenshore spam), but Main docks give innovation rolls now.
-Glassworks math is still weird, but it generates quite a lot of Wealth. A Main should put us pretty close to clear glass.
-Main Mills no longer cost Art, but they generate 4 LTE out of wealth. They're a very good option for a trade power to take.
-Walls have changed so that we automatically have Light walls already, they're no longer worth tracking. They're still quite costly in time and Econ however.
-Watchtowers are surprisingly unchanged.
-Passive Policy is basically super inconvenient to take. I think generally we don't WANT to take any except Infrastructure, Innovation or Defence.
-Distribute Land noew reveals the maximum extent we can go before the Centralization floor increases. From what we can so it progresses the same way as New Trails, we'll never face problems with the cap if we always use Trails to raise Centralization.
Otherwise unchanged though.
Margins are kind of tight now. We need a third Aqueduct soon to give us wriggle room.
We now actually NEED two True Cities, because a lot more actions cost 2 Econ now.
Forests are now labeled properly.
Secondary Forest generates 1 LTE with 2 Cities.
Main Forest is LTE neutral, but produces forest slots quickly.
The Other Effects is also interesting.
Snails/Vines need more cities to support the Main, but it otherwise just shifts Econ to Wealth and Dye/Wine dominance.
Free action now, since it has everything it needs to become a Colony, but we currently benefit from the status quo.
Free Cities now actually do something!
This is actually quite useful to deliberately create 3 True Cities and then convert them to Free Cities for the Passive Policy actions...but this Policy would probably be biased towards their interests, so Sacred Forest would go Mysticism unless Mysticism is maxed, then they'd probably do Innovation or Forestry, and Redshore would probably be doing Trade and switch to Innovation or Infrastructure(to generate Salterns).
This is a pretty powerful mechanic of course, but Free Cities are their own costs.
They can get complicated.
Influence now can directly boost Loyalty expensively on a Main, which is very nice.
Integrates now can be accelerated. Handy, but rarely relevant.
-Festivals are same as before.
Interestingly, we can not take Mains for our religious elite units. We might be transitioning them to a different sort if taken enough?
Main boats don't seem to do anything other than pay out faster.
We probably need to research bigger boats for Mains to change.
New Settlements now have their quality revealed:
-Northern Blackriver is an amazing site, rich in land and minerals.
-Far Northeastern Redhills meanwhile is barely arable, but good mining site
-South of Cataracts is typical Lowlands, ridiculously rich soil, but no minerals of mention.
Main settelemnts seem to go from planting a village to planting a town. Good if you need Econ expansions or want more provinces, but generally not that much better.
-New Trails doesn't seem to show how much they add to the cap, but based on precedent, taking Mains adds 2 to the cap progress. We'll hit diminishing returns eventually, but take it enough without wasting Centralization and I think we could make Centralization 7 WHITE. The description still says our roads are missing a LOT.
-Poppies, oddly enough, don't generate a new Trade Good at Secondary. Maybe we'd take it some day.
-Proclaim Glory now gives +2 Stability on a Main. Amazing! But legitimacy spent is hard to raise and holy shit it easts a lot of Art. If we have a skilled administrator, Secondary Restore Order + Secondary Proclaim Glory should add 2 Stability more cheaply. Or a main on each would give +2 to +5 Stability, which is the pull out of crash combo.
More Warriors has evolved to be able to directly spawn a mercenary company on a double main.
We definitely need to raise our caps to be able to digest these new warrior actions.
-Restore Order Mains now can add +1 Stability on top of the roll, which is nice.
-Salt Gift Mains now does a Mansa Musa to the target economy if targeted. Reminder that the base Wealth cap for small states is 8.
-Study actions are much more costly overall, but that's to be expected...except Study Stars now returns even more Mysticism. Clearly trying to bribe us into doing it.
-Support Subordinate is cheaper than Influence, but it's a lot more action efficient now and the Loyalty boost is revealed. The Northern Trade Post is now viable, because we can send enough dudes to survive with a single Main and a company.
-Trade Missions got more expensive as Secondary, but more rewarding on Main. You can potentially double your stat point investment with a Main Trade Mission.
-Salterns can now be completed in a single secondary action. We get one every 3 turns of Infrastruture minor policy. They are now LTE negative.
-Aqueducts are a little odder, but the numbers look like a typo in Progress number. One secondary for each, or a Main for Redshore/Blackmouth. Unfortunate, because Redshore and Blackmouth needs them the most. They are now LTE neutral for most sites, and LTE negative for Redshore and Blackmouth.
-Libraries can be done in a single secondary. We'd need them too, mysticism costs have grown substantially.
This is AMAZING.
Colossal Walls are expensive as hell, since they take 3 Main actions to build. We now know why the Stallions are building the Aqueduct, Dragon Graveyard is becoming a True City, so they put in the aqueduct...then put up Massive Walls.
They also let us vent Martial so we can take Blackbirds or Carrion Eaters for innovations.
Mostly as expected here. Once we finally get around to them.
Major Holy Sites: Rainbow Trail (0/3), Sacred Forest (Temple 0/6), Holy Sea (0/3), Horse Valley (0/3), White Circle (0/3), Warrior's Rest (0/3), Star Mirror (0/3), Sunrise Grove (0/3), Skyforest (0/3), Bloodgrove (0/3), Spiritwell (0/3), Moonwell (0/3), Sparkling Cave (0/3)
Temple sites are now doable in a single secondary action. Upgrading Sacred Forest Temple takes a single Main. Hopefully we have the freedom to build these next turn
Megaprojects are now FAR faster.
-Census and Games can be one turned on Megaproject policy.
-We now know that Grand Docks need 2 Forest slots. We probably can build this pretty soon if we wanted.
Provinces for Projects: Redvalley (Valleyhome+Redhills), Sacred Shore (Redshore+Sacred Forest), Stoneshore (Stonepen + Northshore), Hatshore (Southshore+ Hatriver), Blackiron Province (Blackriver+Ironshore)
And we have the province breakdown!
-Redvalley - This seems to make Valleyhome oversized geographically. Valleyhome is already almost as big as Sacred Shore on it's own. But it's the capital province.
-Sacred Shore - Redshore being combined with Sacred Forest is administratively convenient, by putting the source of wood with the source of boats.
-Hatshore - *Wears hat* Expected this. Might change with Integrating Hatvalley?
-Blackiron - We revealed this previous
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
You know what? I'm changing from Hatvalley propagation to Enforce Justice. Not because I think it will help poor Naha - there's about a 50/50 chance - but because I want the Stability room to KICK the Law project hard.
I'm very disappointed with how our People are behaving, and they must work their tails off to remedy their greed and exploitation. Time to start slapping the imps!
[X] [Main] Census
[X] [Secondary] New Settlement - south of cataracts
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
I'm very disappointed with how our People are behaving, and they must work their tails off to remedy their greed and exploitation. Time to start slapping the imps!
[X] [Main] Census
[X] [Secondary] New Settlement - south of cataracts
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
- Location
- Australia
Greenshore and KotH already gave their Diplomacy when we started the turn. The +2 Diplomacy we got here was from the roads we built.
If I had to guess it was either from Economy overflow or from our passive Wealth generation.
Not sure why you like them so much. They're walls. Not a big deal. The Martial vent is very costly in terms of Econ. A better Martial vent is Support Subordinate as it sends 2 Martial per Secondary instead of 1 and only costs 2 Economy per Secondary rather than 3.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Thank you veekie!
I like the name City Popper!
Maybe the cashout had a Expansion cost? I don't even remember what the cashout was from. Or... maybe Redshore ate it?
This may be the other effects of tying everyone together? We get a tax infusion by connecting people up and being able to look over shoulders?
Gonna need to work on that Dam and the Canal after the Law.
I have a theory that we might start seeing innovation in walls if we do passive defense and active defense together. I would also suggest that once we get the Dam done at least we switch to this so we can prep for any future Hordes.
I like the name City Popper!
Paper progress perhaps?
The base number of them may be too small to provide all the required teachers for a Main's worth of new ones. That's the first bad thing that comes to my mind.
[X] [Main] Census
[X] [Secondary] New Settlement - south of cataracts
[X] [Secondary] Integrate Colony - Hatvalley - Propagate
[X] [Secondary] New Settlement - south of cataracts
[X] [Secondary] Integrate Colony - Hatvalley - Propagate
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
*whack whack!* *blood spray* *squeal of the People!*
For sure the spirits are mad at them.
For sure.
[X] [Main] Census
[X] [Secondary] New Settlement - south of cataracts
[X] [Secondary] Integrate Colony - Hatvalley - Propagate
Census is obvious.
I think settling the cataracts is very important geopolitically. If the Stallion Tribes secede that would be unfortunate and very damaging, but the only way they can expand without going to war with either Westwall or the Core (a war they would loose) is to settle the steppes, which aren't very good terrain for settling. It would take a thousand years for them to become a credible threat to the Ymaryn core territories. If they don't get eaten by nomads first.
If Txolla breaks away they'll quickly use our advances in warfare, our iron and sustainable farming techniques to overrun the entirety of the lowlands, and we have no idea how big those are. They have good chances of founding a massive Empire from here down to Not-Egypt if they play their cards right.
And then they'll turn around to try and eat their former overlords.
We must bind them to ourselves as strongly as possible, and that is only possible with a waterway. The Highland Kingdom must not be allowed to settle the Cataracts before us.
Hatvalley needs to be pushed out further so we can add their silvermines to the core, increase their dependency on us and deal with a major failure point for our civ.
Hopefully we'll get midturns to increase stability.
[X] [Secondary] New Settlement - south of cataracts
[X] [Secondary] Integrate Colony - Hatvalley - Propagate
Census is obvious.
I think settling the cataracts is very important geopolitically. If the Stallion Tribes secede that would be unfortunate and very damaging, but the only way they can expand without going to war with either Westwall or the Core (a war they would loose) is to settle the steppes, which aren't very good terrain for settling. It would take a thousand years for them to become a credible threat to the Ymaryn core territories. If they don't get eaten by nomads first.
If Txolla breaks away they'll quickly use our advances in warfare, our iron and sustainable farming techniques to overrun the entirety of the lowlands, and we have no idea how big those are. They have good chances of founding a massive Empire from here down to Not-Egypt if they play their cards right.
And then they'll turn around to try and eat their former overlords.
We must bind them to ourselves as strongly as possible, and that is only possible with a waterway. The Highland Kingdom must not be allowed to settle the Cataracts before us.
Hatvalley needs to be pushed out further so we can add their silvermines to the core, increase their dependency on us and deal with a major failure point for our civ.
Hopefully we'll get midturns to increase stability.
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ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
And more darkly, why would refugees bring innovation when we did such a lousy job of integrating them? Thus, engineer gets an idea from the woman forced into prostitution.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Considering past mid turns when we were low on stability we should get a stability option.
Also welcome! I don't recall having seen you post before, are you new to the quest?
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
To be fair, this woman's probably in the absolute bottom percentile - that it happened at all is unfortunate, but I doubt every single refugee is in quite as dire straits as she is.
I could see a malus being applied to the innovation roll, to model the portion of refugees doing so poorly though.
Anyways, voting!
[X] [Main] The Census
Because I know what the name of the project is, and refuse to do the currently leading "Census." This will also help with the immigration issues we have constantly.
[X] [Secondary] Support Subordinate -Txolla
[X] [Secondary] Improve Annual Festival
Yeah, this isn't going to win. However, it gets rid of 2 Martial, stopping us from having a martial implosion, in addition to throwing a festival so people will in general stop being dicks and maybe helping increase the loyalty of our vassal back up. Since we currently don't have laws that would truly stop this, or even the means of measuring stuff to create the laws that would stop this (The Census), the next best thing is to make people happy enough to not kick the people low on the totem pole around as much. As such, I believe it is the most effective use of our actions.
I expect Txolla to start settling the Cataracts, and with heightened loyalty we can probably start integrating them, so I don't feel the need to settle their manually. I also don't believe Enforce Justice will solve most of the problems, because most of these problems exist so easily because our government is incapable of handling the problems until we get the census, let alone the laws needed to deal with this issue that enforce justice would need to actually act upon in the first place. There would be few actual gains there.
[X] [Main] The Census
Because I know what the name of the project is, and refuse to do the currently leading "Census." This will also help with the immigration issues we have constantly.
[X] [Secondary] Support Subordinate -Txolla
[X] [Secondary] Improve Annual Festival
Yeah, this isn't going to win. However, it gets rid of 2 Martial, stopping us from having a martial implosion, in addition to throwing a festival so people will in general stop being dicks and maybe helping increase the loyalty of our vassal back up. Since we currently don't have laws that would truly stop this, or even the means of measuring stuff to create the laws that would stop this (The Census), the next best thing is to make people happy enough to not kick the people low on the totem pole around as much. As such, I believe it is the most effective use of our actions.
I expect Txolla to start settling the Cataracts, and with heightened loyalty we can probably start integrating them, so I don't feel the need to settle their manually. I also don't believe Enforce Justice will solve most of the problems, because most of these problems exist so easily because our government is incapable of handling the problems until we get the census, let alone the laws needed to deal with this issue that enforce justice would need to actually act upon in the first place. There would be few actual gains there.
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Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Influence Subordinate is also something we need to do to PTSD-chan to prevent the constant clash of ideals. More to the point, doing it with the Stallion Tribes will avoid a lot of the problems that people are worried about with them. Once we have The Law updated, we need to crank our Stability up to max to grab a Golden Age, and then start using Influence Subordinate on them. The narrative synergy of that sequence is tremendous.
- Location
- Staring into the void
Inserted tally
Okay, I think that I need to being some perspective to this whole thing. There are a couple of factors that most people seem to not be considering.
First: This was basically a crit fail on our innovation rolls. This is maybe one step above literally the worst possible it can get. Usually we do much better at this.
Second: Even with the fact that we did have an incredibly low roll, thr out come is still not that bad. This? This is a low income worker supplementing her position with prostitution. It's not good mind you, but she is being fed, we are preventing disease, and she does have options, even if she doesn't understand them. This is what happens in the Trelli if a newcomer gets lucky. Mostly, they end up in chattel slavery, and so will their kids and all future descendants. At our absolute worst we're still better than our neighbor's best.
Keep the faith, keep building society. It's still working, there are just kinks to iron out.
First: This was basically a crit fail on our innovation rolls. This is maybe one step above literally the worst possible it can get. Usually we do much better at this.
Second: Even with the fact that we did have an incredibly low roll, thr out come is still not that bad. This? This is a low income worker supplementing her position with prostitution. It's not good mind you, but she is being fed, we are preventing disease, and she does have options, even if she doesn't understand them. This is what happens in the Trelli if a newcomer gets lucky. Mostly, they end up in chattel slavery, and so will their kids and all future descendants. At our absolute worst we're still better than our neighbor's best.
Keep the faith, keep building society. It's still working, there are just kinks to iron out.
- Location
- Australia
This kind of thinking sometimes leads to the fallacy that what we have is good enough, or that we can do little by trying to strive ever further. Be careful with your words.
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ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
Agreed. But, Stability will give us the ability to crack the whip over the People and kick the Law megaproject. At this point I feel like they deserve that treatment.
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