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Paths of Civilization

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Abby Normal said:
How important do our priests think it would be to have a long(ish) study stars chain going before we start Place to the Stars?

(You know, assuming we can get through the 3+ megaprojects and more between us and even thinking about building it without it changing in type again due to other tech advances :p)
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Having at least a century (five turns) in a row before the project would really help.

Andres110 said:
@Academia Nut, where does our admin advisor think we should build the palace and what annexes does he recommend we build?
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Advisor from Valleyhome, born to a lineage of clerks from Valleyhome: Valleyhome of course!

As for annexes, two libraries, a shrine or two, a storehouse or two, we could use some gardens and... huh, that's a pretty big cost tally. And I see the Spirit Chief is coming over to argue with me...

Abby Normal said:
1. How were/are the trails in our vassal, both before and after this generation's trail building?
-Do they use gravel roads? or at least our system of managed trails, which i think we manage better than most of our neighbors do, especially with our "wooden/stone steps in hills"?
-How do our roads compare, both to them and to other civs our People have visited (or fought in)?
2. If we turn them into a march or colony, then:
-Do we automatically teach them iron secrets, our advanced chariots and armor and other techs?
-Does that inherently help shift their culture towards ours?
-How much would they consider themselves Ymaryn at that point?
-How likely would they be to consider succession compared to our other provinces if we made them a march without using the influence subordinate action on them first?
3. How much if at all do we help them with the climate issues, and managing any forests or farms or whatnot that they have?
4. How effective would an untargeted double main influence subordinate be, both in absolute terms and in comparison to the effect a single secondary would have on any given subordinate?
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1. Their trails were shit, but they've start to improve them. They don't use gravel yet, but as they improve their trails they are finding its easier to bring in more bulk goods like gravel for improving trails, as well as more bronze tools for cutting into hills.
The People's trails are pretty good, but the Hathatyn definitely had a better system going before they collapsed. Or at least they had invested more into it. Sort of same for the Highlanders.

2. Once they become a periphery rather than a vassal they will have the right to obtain better equipment. Making them a periphery state involves cultural shift automatically. Depending on how much effort you have put into them they may or may not consider themselves a part of the People in truth. The less they have been integrated the more likely they are to consider themselves independent and capable of going their own way.

3. You're helping regulate things, and have shown them more of your techniques to improve their terrain so there is some progress on that front.

4. Untargeted would produce small shifts everywhere, but doing a series of untargeted supports would be less effective than giving each subordinate targeted support... although I suppose without a target there would be less favoritism as you can't really target them all at the same time.

Da Boyz said:
@Academia Nut does the fact that we a war truncate the length of our turns somewhat? Because while understandable if it's just a 5-10 year period its somewhat odd to think about these wars going on for decades on end.
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Wars are slow in this era, although once you start getting major start actors with access to plenty of iron or bronze you will see shorter, more intense wars happening.
 
Finally caught up. Note to self, do not leave this quest for a day lest you have to deal with 40+ more pages again :p

It's too bad we can't combine the shrine and garden annexes into one complex. We could truly be nature hippies then!

[X][Loc] Valleyhome
[X] Shrine
[X] Garden
[X] Library
[X] Storehouse
[X] Library x2
 
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Well, interesting update.

The Nomads seem quiet so I have hope! Might come next update, which is also a mid turn.


Academia Nut said:
Provinces – [Main] War Mission – Support Lowlanders, [Sec] More Blackbirds, [Sec] More Carrion Eaters, [Sec] Expand Econ
Stallions – [Main] Build Temple – Dragon Graveyard, [Main] Expand Econ
Western – [Main] New Settlement, [Main] Build Wall, [Sec] Expand Forests, [Sec] Expand Econ, [Sec] Survey
Greenshore – [Main] Trade Mission – Trelli, [Main] Aqueduct (4/8)
Hatvalley – [Main] New Settlement, [Main] Survey
Heaven's Hawk – [Main] New Settlement, [Main] Watchtowers
Lowland Minors – [Main] War Mission – Swamp Folk, [Main] New Trails
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Stallions built their temple and grabbed some econ. I think they are planning to recruit more in the near future.
Holy shit you have a total of 7 actions West Wall? Dang. You not smol for sure, now you is thiccc.
Hrmmm... I see what you are doing there Greenshore. You are getting jelly of Trelli. But! You are also starting our spread into the Not!Carpathians so I can only approve.
Hatvalley is looking for mines, which we have forest space for if it comes to taking ours instead of theirs. I desperately want it to be a silver mine so we can shake out of our silver supply issues or put them off for longer.
The HH have been taking a liking to our ideas. They'll need more watchtowers.
Thank Crow our Lowlands PTSD-chan has liked trails, I am assuming there is now some basic connections between Redhill and Far East Redhill and the rest of the Vassal. Hrmm... I need a better name for them. I shall call them Vassalina!

Academia Nut said:
Within the libraries of the People, there are several points of wisdom that have been enshrined as things that all leaders should remember for the future. One of those was "Bad things happen, deal with them".

Well, bad things were happening in the lowlands, and only the Red Banner had managed to keep the situation from completely deteriorating. Unfortunately, when the king had sent the heir to look over the situation, it had turned sour with unpleasant quickness. Apparently the Thunder Horse had been willing to mark the Tocholli River as their eastern border for the time being and had even offered to potentially hire the services of the Red Banner for dealing with the Swamp Folk, who they were also fighting with, but the heir had put his foot in his mouth and apparently then tried his damnedest to chew it off. What could have been a potential settlement between the two groups to ease tensions had turned into the Thunder Horse deciding to go at it further just because of how insulted they were.

Ugh... a new heir would need to be elected after that incident, but the last election had already been a political knife fight, which was why they had ended up with a semi-incompetent compromise candidate.
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Good advice.
I gotta say if the TH didn't kill this heir, I would have because fuck man that's pants on head with your ding dong out for the dogs levels of stupidity. I can only assume Crow possessed this schmuck and made him stupid to make our lives interesting.
I'm with Abby here, fuck the dice on this one.

*sigh*

Academia Nut said:
Frankly, half the reason that they were drawing up the plans for a new palace complex was that the current residence of the king was too small to hold all of the important people, their advisors, the people to keep all of those people fed and clean when they were spending the whole day arguing with each other, and going elsewhere was eating up administrative time with unnecessary walking for all involved. Just having a bigger residence that could house everyone and keep them close together and close to administrative experts would massively ease the headaches of governance. However, the council arguments over the design and location of the palace were already quite intense.
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So what this tells me is that a Great Hall + Living Quarters is a massive boost by itself. Good to know since action crunch is a bitch.
We want to help this facet be even better.

Academia Nut said:
For placement, the big argument was where to put the new palace. While Valleyhome was obvious, the other two candidates were Sacred Forest and Redshore. Given the pilgrimages of shamans and commoners to the temple in Sacred Forest, there were many who felt that it was already the heart of the People, and it had the connections to also serve as a significant center of government. Redshore, while not quite as grand or urban as the larger Valleyhome or Sacred Forest, had always been a major center of trade and industry, and given its access to the sea was probably the easiest for the majority of provinces to get delegates to. Also, while its geography meant that getting proper amounts of water to allow it to really expand remained a tricky proposition, once an aqueduct was put in it would have the best and easiest drainage of them all. Of course, everyone had their own opinion on the politics of it all, and the argumentation could get pretty vicious at times.
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Hmm, good arguments have been made that Redshore is the logistics hub, and logistics are stupid important but I really do not like the actions needed to keep the option from exploding in our face in the near term. We... don't really have them to spare. This seems like a case of taking the shit as it comes because we can't wiggle in the actions to dodge.
Sacred Forest would be nice but the transit would be problematic. Issues with the forest itself perhaps? It would be the most central, but probably end up taking the most extra work and over a lengthy period to.
Valleyhome is the standard option, and looking at the map is sorta central to all of our expansion directions. Not as much as Sacred Forest since it favors lowlands expansion but we can reach it from anywhere and it is the closest to a quick balance position we can get without more effort.

Bleh. I want to take Redshore but don't value the headache. Grand Docks after Dam *hugs @pblur* and cataract canal. Maybe.

Academia Nut said:
While the where was a fairly major question, perhaps even bigger was the question of what. Some of the plans that were being talked about by the architects and builders were quite ambitious, and that had many on the council worried about how they were going to pay for everything if some of the designs were implemented. Also, the bigger the whole thing was the longer it would take to build, and if they were going to be displacing many to have a good chunk of urban territory they would really want to settle design quickly. So far the smallest and most modest designs that seemed to have everything that they needed had a complex of residences for the king, the council, administrators to do all the business of government, guest rooms for visiting dignitaries and provincial chiefs, room for all of the family of the above, and room for all the support staff to keep all of the above from starving and/or dying of disease in their own filth. It was practically a small city just with that! Then there would be a large chamber set aside where the king could meet with everyone in peace and comfort and they could do the work of the kingdom properly. There would of course be the display of artwork and civic relics to remind the People and visitors of the power and importance of the place. Finally there would be an annex where a shrine to the gods would be kept, meaning that the king could get the minor religious duties out of the way without having to leave the palace - although there were a few proposals that omitted the shrine in favour of something else, typically a library.
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Okay first bit. We are concerned about paying for this thing if we take too long and since we are doing some displacing of population we should finish it quickly to avoid unrest. What we need as the basics are the Living Quarters, one of the largest sections, the Great Hall which actually does sound like a admin improvement of some kind with "the work of the kingdom" bit, and a shrine for advisement. It is recommended to have a shrine.


Academia Nut said:
Beyond that, the proposals tended to attach further annexes upon the palace, making it bigger and giving further capabilities. Some were just modest extensions of what was already going on, others were...

Well, there was a proposal to turn the palace into a library that had twice as much storage space as the existing libraries put together, pretty clearly put forth by an extremely overworked clerk. There was another proposal by someone paranoid about what Phygrif the Conqueror had done to Xohyr returning to bite them by making the palace into a near mountain of stone walls. Still, the various extensions and the like were easy to categorize.
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Lol. Funny responses are, as always, available.



Academia Nut said:
First, the Great Hall could be extended, made larger to accommodate more visitors, and to also appear more impressive to outsiders. Some proposals suggested making it big enough to serve as something of a community focus point, where a significant fraction of the populace could attend during major festivals, although that was probably overkill.

Second was extending out the shrine, making it into a proper temple to the gods, probably with Mathulmyn as the patron of the temple itself and Fythhagyna and Crow included somewhere in a prominent but not central role. Further proposals would extend it out further and increase the amount of religious authority of the palace, and thus the king. It would also increase the king's access to skilled advisors on spiritual matters.

Third, and almost certainly included somewhere, was a library annex. While the smallest proposals just made it a general administrative storage area and reference library for the king and advisors, larger proposals expanded it out to be at least as large as the library already crammed into Valleyhome or as part of the temple in Sacred Forest, with a few proposals where the palace was more library than palace! Given all the writing the government generated, a library was probably a necessity, and the bigger the more important records could be kept on immediate hand for the king to have easy access to.
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So Great Hall is a more moderate admin boost. Sounds like a boost to our appeals system too. Big bling bonus.

Having the temple be dedicated to our "please don't let the king be a moron" god is just good sense.

Hmmm... yeah our advisors are hinting that big libraries might be useful for the Census here, beyond the big admin capacity boost.


Academia Nut said:
Fourth was the proposal for garden complexes. These were frequently courtyards, often extensions of the Great Hall, and they were there for the purposes of beauty, health, and spiritual strength. There would probably be a few small gardens in quiet spots no matter the design chosen, but these proposals were significant efforts. Many priests proposed that gardens be included in order to ensure that the palace remained connected to nature, and also to ensure an at-hand supply of important plants that could be grown there.
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You know that overworked Ymaryn clerk joke we have? This would help fix it and medicinal plants on hand can be a life saver. Headache meds must be in ridiculous demand from our clerk population. This is probably a next step must have, meaning we can build it after this first round of annexes.


Academia Nut said:
Fifth were storehouses. The king's residence was already close to a number of central storehouses and granaries so it made sense, and there would of course be internal stores for the palace's consumption, but these proposals were for major areas to do nothing but store critical goods and administer their collection and distribution. These would certainly help with administration purposes, and help the city if it were ever cut off from food supplies by disaster or war.
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This is a logistics boost I think we should grab in the first wave of annexes. Specifically the part of "administer the collection and distribution". That is a core function of our economy, and is incredibly important in my estimation. It might be able to wait for a second wave of annexes which I will be pushing for after the tax but it is important.


Academia Nut said:
Sixth were proposals to have artisans brought in to live within the palace, producing warrior goods. This would ensure that the king would have the best equipment available and that the best warriors would always come to the palace for their gear, rather than potentially going elsewhere. Many of the association members also suggested that having such an annex would also help tie the king more closely to the artisans by having them live in association with each other.
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Having the king with his hand on the pulse of the artisans is a good thing. Keeps them from getting too crazy or something silly. This is also a first step on store houses of equipment which leads into standardized equipment I would imagine because such standard things are easier to store and maintain. Also puts us on the track to proto-manufactories and the basics of the basics of the basics of industrial tech. Several millennia down the line but this is one of several beginning steps. I think this might be useful in the second wave because it is helpful as I said and has synergy with the temple + library.


Academia Nut said:
Finally, there were walls. While there would have to be some degree of separation between the palace and the rest of the city for the purposes of security, some proposals went further, suggesting walls like those of city fortifications, or even walls of greater height and thickness than in any city yet built! While there was certainly a point of diminishing returns, especially if the walls effectively cut the palace off from the city and did not include extensive internal stores or its own arsenal, perhaps some additional defences would help against less spectacular threats than armies.
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*incoming ridiculousness*

CASTLES! WE CAN GET CASTLES EVENTUALLY!!!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

I'M COMING QUL-NA-QAR <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3!!!
WAIT FOR ME!
*ridiculousness over*

Ahem. This can wait till the second or third wave of annexes. It is always good to prepare for the possibility of being attacked, Thoughts like "If we are being attacked in Valleyhome we are dead already" are not ones I can agree with because I am stubborn and my basic grasp of military tactics and strategy means you prepare.


Academia Nut said:
Oh, and of course, there were the interactions that might emerge from having different annexes with each other. An arsenal, stores, and fortification all together would make the palace an impressive internal hard point. Especially large great halls that lead in part to gardens had the potential to be quite impressive, and what wonders might a large library, temple, and arsenal produce when all in close association with each other and with access to the king? It was a complex question with many proposals that the king and council would have to sort out.
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So arsenal + store + fortification means we turn it into a proto-CASTLE, ahem, not quite what we need. Large Great Halls(more than a single expansion?) + gardens are very prestigious and give us a double whammy for diplo actions and might make our justice system some improvements. Library + temple + arsenal sounds like a super admin and especially a research boost. I want a research hall and admin Palace which eventually becomes a castle. Frankenstein's Castle here we come!


[X] [Loc] Valleyhome
[X] Shrine
[X] Library
[X] Library x2
[X] Storehouse
I will make no bones about it, this location option will suck in the long term most likely, but as I understand our situation this is one of the better options for actually getting it all done without something bad happening.
Bleh.

All the admin all the way. I figure Storehouse will pay for itself in admin relief even with the extra action.

My next set I have on my wish list is a Arsenal, Fortifications, and Gardens.
 
[X] [Loc] Valleyhome
[X] Shrine
[X] Library
[X] Library x2
[X] Storehouse

What I think we really need.

[X] Arsenal

What I really want. :cry:
 
pbluekan said:
*Looks at our most important social value*
*Looks at our first Wonder*
*Looks at our biggest temple*

Are you sure we aren't?
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It was more a joke based on that earlier "Tree Palace" thing being joked about that we are sooo into nature that even our places of worship are just nature itself, hence the word of "truly" to imply that we are going full-on hardcore naturalist hippie. :p
 
Citino said:
[X] [Loc] Valleyhome
[X] Shrine
[X] Library
[X] Library x2
[X] Storehouse

What I think we really need.

[X] Arsenal

What I really want. :cry:
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*pets the sad vampire*

Shh shh, it will all be okay. I know it hurts to hear the call of Industrialization and CASTLES and have them left unanswered but we can build it soon!

I really really really desperately want it soon.

Sigh. But I think the earliest is in the second wave of annexes.

I don't think we will get steel, but it is the first step onto a lot of materials science innovations to do with metallurgy and artisans.

Also if it gets high enough there may be space included which eases the costs so we can get them easier!
 
Umi-san said:
10, since we plan it now and carry it out later

@pbluekan yeah, like technically we could as a mob agree to self-police and create plans and moratoriums. It's just that we don't.
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Authority
Directed Political Violence
-Forbidden by Law.

Law Itself
-Forbidden by Law.

Non-familial Patronage
-Pro-North faction
--Redshore makes it easier to administratrate the North via rivers!
-Pro-West faction
--Redshore makes it easier to administrate the West(Western Wall/Hatvalley) via coast
-Pro-Lowlands faction
--Valleyhome makes it easier to administrate the lowlands via land
-Fuck Hereditary Nobility faction
--We don't want to give them more power
---Uh...how?
-Fuck Theocracy faction
--We don't want to give them more power
---So we should not make Sacred Forest the capital
-Fuck Guild faction
--We don't want to give them more power
---So we should not make Valleyhome a Free City

Occupational Association
-Pro action saving faction
--We don't want to lock in another three action draining project on top of the two projects in the queue
--We don't want the palace to be an overburdened mess of extensions
-Pro economy saving faction
--We don't want to lock in another expensive project
--We want to build more extensions for cost efficiency
-Pro infrastructure faction
--We want extensive libraries to support the census
--We want Great Halls to support Festivals
--We want Shrines to support religious authority
--We want to build all the extensions actually, but everyone else would murder us, so we don't
-Pro logistics faction
--We want Redshore because shipping saves trouble for everything
--We want storage spaces to handle the Palace Economy burdens
-Informed Decision faction
--Dear Academia Nut....

Tradition
-The so-called veekiewagon
-We've always ruled from Valleyhome
-The lowlands are historically more on fire than anywhere else and thus need more attention.

Academia Nut said:
The two primary places are Horse Valley or Star Mirror.



The form has changed considerably, it would be more like a temple complex than say Stonehenge.
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Hmm.
Horse Valley:
-Excellent vantages, able to study a lot of the sky at once from canyon tops
-More focus on Sun and Moon occurances
-Animal herds and hawking would interfere with operations. One of them will have to go

Star Mirror:
-Natural large reflecting pool enormously increases the quality of stargazing
-Use of reflecting pool for stargazing encourages mathematics improvement to make measurements and denote positions.(you could put up markings around the rim of the pool to get more accurate star coordinates than the eyeballing from Horse Valley)
-Restricts future explorations of the water system


PrimalShadow said:
Lets see. Just breaking this down for ease-of-use, Valleyhome has:
(+) The skilled workers we need to staff our Palace,
(+) A long-standing culture suitable for the Palace,
(+) Infrastructure that can support the Palace,
(+) Proximity to the lowlands, and
(+) A likelihood of being even more of a center for the People than it already is as time goes on.
However, it is
(-) Far away from our furthest point


In contrast, Redshore is the opposite -
(-) lack of skilled workers,
(-) no particular culture advantage,
(-) none of the necessary infrastructure, and
(-) greater distance from the lowlands.
However, it is
(+) a trade hub, and
(+) is exceptionally connected.



I know quantity isn't the end-all-be-all here, but I'm really not seeing Redshore's very few advantages outweighing its very many dissadvantages.
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The thing is that the Redshore minuses are all going to be mitigated in a relatiely short span of time as population and politics transfer over(aside from Lowland distance), but the Valleyhome minuses towards logistics will get worse as time goes by and theres basically nothing we can do to improve logistics there until we get Steam Power.

Upfront costs vs long term costs.
Redshore will fulfill the Library needs with the current Palace extension spread anyway, so basically the REAL cost is the substantial expense of the Aqueduct.
 
Umi-san said:
as long as we treat them the way we are now treating the north it should be fine, shouldn't it? Besides, we need them as a March, or possibly just as a colony, to make that area take less effort.
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My logic was that they're a lot more culturally dissimilar and so woudl be far more likely to go "wait we can have iron now???", build up for a few turns, then break free and dominate the lowlands themselves. AN's response has tempered that fear, though i still think we should put some planning into integrating them.
Academia Nut said:
Having at least a century (five turns) in a row before the project would really help.
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...Well that's gonna be hard to manage vote discipline wise :p
Academia Nut said:
1. Their trails were shit, but they've start to improve them. They don't use gravel yet, but as they improve their trails they are finding its easier to bring in more bulk goods like gravel for improving trails, as well as more bronze tools for cutting into hills.
The People's trails are pretty good, but the Hathatyn definitely had a better system going before they collapsed. Or at least they had invested more into it. Sort of same for the Highlanders.
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I miss the days when refugees were in awe of our amazing trails... were their trails gravel or some other advancement, or "just" managed trails with heavier investment?
Academia Nut said:
2. Once they become a periphery rather than a vassal they will have the right to obtain better equipment. Making them a periphery state involves cultural shift automatically. Depending on how much effort you have put into them they may or may not consider themselves a part of the People in truth. The less they have been integrated the more likely they are to consider themselves independent and capable of going their own way.
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Oooh, good to know. So if we want them to consider themselves "part of the People in truth", we probably want to do at least a secondary and preferably a main influence subordinate targeted at them, and then do the double main integrate right away, instead of just the regular main integrate? Alternately, turn them into a march during a war like this one, so they're pressured by the war not to leave, giving us time to influence them?

Academia Nut said:
4. Untargeted would produce small shifts everywhere, but doing a series of untargeted supports would be less effective than giving each subordinate targeted support... although I suppose without a target there would be less favoritism as you can't really target them all at the same time.
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Hmm...can we do split targets? Like a double main - Lowlands, Stallion, Heaven's Hawk, Hatvalley? Or would we have to do that as 4 separate secondaries? And how would those two things compare in effectiveness?
Academia Nut said:
Wars are slow in this era, although once you start getting major start actors with access to plenty of iron or bronze you will see shorter, more intense wars happening.
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Man, with as big a game changer as "plenty of iron" makes, am i just overestimating how widespread iron is with our forces, or are we just really outnumbered or out skilled in war, because it sounds like we should be having a lot less trouble with these wars than we are...
 
BungieONI said:
*pets the sad vampire*

Shh shh, it will all be okay. I know it hurts to hear the call of Industrialization and CASTLES and have them left unanswered but we can build it soon!

I really really really desperately want it soon.

Sigh. But I think the earliest is in the second wave of annexes.

I don't think we will get steel, but it is the first step onto a lot of materials science innovations to do with metallurgy and artisans.

Also if it gets high enough there may be space included which eases the costs so we can get them easier!
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It's not even just the innovations we are missing out on if we don't take it, a royal armory is one of the things that reduces the chance for civil wars. By making it so the king has the best weapons are armor out of anyone, it makes the most ambitious and talented warriors desire to get into the king's personal army above any other ones. This means when a subject starts wondering if he can rebel, he would have to face the most elite forces in the kingdom who are directly loyal to the king.

This also synergizes with our Best of the Best trait, as it pushes both the best warriors into the royal factions, while also drawing the best artisans as well. The arsenal is an incredible stabilizing factor, and if we had more time and resources I would be pushing for it hard. As it is, 4 annexes is really the most I want us to take, so Arsenal has to wait.
 
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Academia Nut said:
There's enough inter-settlement commerce that it is the latter, with a few semi-state organized pilgrimage caravans along major routes. Generally if you want to go to Sacred Forest or Valleyhome you find your way to a main route and within a week or two you can find a group heading where you want to go, and then the same on the way back.
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Have we got roadside shelter buildings popping up yet?
 
veekie said:
The thing is that the Redshore minuses are all going to be mitigated in a relatiely short span of time as population and politics transfer over(aside from Lowland distance), but the Valleyhome minuses towards logistics will get worse as time goes by and theres basically nothing we can do to improve logistics there until we get Steam Power.
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The valleyhome minus toward logistics -i.e. place it's farthest from - only applies to the WW and GS, basically. If we expand further into the lowlands that becomes negated, because it becomes closer to the other farthest point. the ST & etc. have decent access through land.

The logistics in terms of reaching the ocean can be improved through infrastructural efforts, though the same applies to reaching the lowlands for Redshore.
Kiba said:
So, aside from the library and shrine, what options are on the table?
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great hall expansion, garden, storeroom are all doing okay-ish
 
Citino said:
It's not even just the innovations we are missing out on if we don't take it, a royal armory is one of the things that reduces the chance for civil wars. By making it so the king has the best weapons are armor out of anyone, it makes the most ambitious and talented warriors desire to get into the king's personal army above any other ones. This means when a subject starts wondering if he can rebel, he would have to face the most elite forces in the kingdom who are directly loyal to the king.

This also synergizes with our Best of the Best trait, as it pushes both the best warriors into the royal factions, while also drawing the best artisans as well. The arsenal is an incredible stabilizing factor, and if we had more time and resources I would be pushing for it hard. As it is, 4 annexes is really the most I want us to take, so Arsenal has to wait.
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Yeah, I forgot about this but this is another big thing. It leads eventually to organization of the army. Which is huge.

One of the biggest things AN has said that keeps us from civil war is that we do not have individuals with individual armies, they are all under the authority of the king. And I really want to keep with that trend.

In every honesty there is a large part of me that wants be able to brag "We fucking lasted for 10,000 years as one continuous civ. You have no idea of our skill or the shit we have seen." because being smug dicks who have a point like the Eldar is funny if used sparingly. I mean we sorta already do it with PROPER FARMING. I gotta express my smug somehow.
 
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Great Hall Expansion = ~44
Library = ~90
Library x2 = ~81 or something
Shrine = ~88 or something
Storehouse = ~55
Adhoc vote count started by Umi-san on Jul 9, 2017 at 9:33 PM, finished with 72108 posts and 97 votes.
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Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Umi-san on Jul 9, 2017 at 9:33 PM, finished with 72108 posts and 97 votes.
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Umi-san said:
Great Hall Expansion = 55
Library = 90
Library x2 = 81 or something
Storehouse = 55
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Remember to check the Newest votes option in the tally Umi to get the accurate vote count.

This is the NetTally version.

Vote Tally : Original - Paths of Civilization | Page 2858 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.9.1
[9] Great Hall Expansion x2
[8] Storehouse x2
[3] Fortifications
[2] Gardens x2
[1] Arsenal x2
[1] Fortifications x2
[1] Fortifications x3
[1] Fortifications x4
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Annex
[90][Annex] Library
[88][Annex] Shrine
[81][Annex] Library x2
[49][Annex] Storehouse
[44][Annex] Great Hall Expansion
[36][Annex] Gardens
[19][Annex] Arsenal
[16][Annex] Shrine x2
[5][Annex] Library x3
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Loc
[54][Loc] Valleyhome
[35][Loc] Redshore
[3][Loc] Sacred Forest
Total No. of Voters: 97
 
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