Paths of Civilization

Thomasfoolery · Jul 3, 2017

Reader of all said:
So the only vote that is still being decided is the red banner vote anyone else want to chime in?

Well this

Academia Nut said:
The Red Banner could use some work, but its not too bad at the moment. The TS are probably going to stay out of this one, but who knows, they might see an opportunity later.

Convinced me that it wouldn't be a huge deal to send them out again, and a quick win which they would make more likely would be very helpful.

tryrar · Jul 3, 2017

[X] [Main] New Trails
[X] [Main] New Trails x2
[X] [Secondary] Expand Forests
[X] [Policy] Offensive

[X] [RB] West, through the hills

[X] [Wonder] Library
-[X] [Wonder] Valleyhome

pblur · Jul 3, 2017

[X] [RB] West, through the hills

StarkDemise · Jul 3, 2017

[X] [Main] New Trails
[X] [Main] New Trails x2
[X] [Secondary] Expand Forests
[X] [Policy] Offensive

[X] [RB] West, through the hills

[X] [Wonder] Library
-[X] [Wonder] Valleyhome

Candesce · Jul 3, 2017

[X] [RB] West, through the hills

Thinking about it, this is one war I'd prefer ended as soon as possible. We're short enough on actions as is, and forcing the Highlanders to back down ought to get us extra refugees.

tryrar · Jul 3, 2017

On a side note, I'm actually surprised and impressed everyone followed through on the double main trails plan we had with little dissension. I actually half expected to have to argue why we need to do trails for the people who only skimmed the convo of the last couple turns to get them to vote for it.

BungieONI · Jul 3, 2017

*reclines in throne, finger tapping the arm*

Hmm I am quite unsure of the merc vote.

*goes back to re-read the update and stare through the Window*

Rakuhn · Jul 3, 2017

[X] [RB] West, through the hills

Citino · Jul 3, 2017

Negaverse: Xohyssiri: Endings

The Ymaryn army encircled the city, dull silver metal gleaming under the noon sunlight. Their infernal war machine rhythmically struck the gate, again and again, each blow slowly cracking the defenses of a city that had stood since time immemorial. The king grips his scepter, the wood nearly cracking under the pressure.

It had all gone so wrong, so quickly. The old stories spoke of a time when the Xohyssiri empire had encompassed land beyond imagining, a time where all had trembled in awe and fear of the might of the Xohyr, quick to offer tribute lest they attract the attention of the mighty empire.

Those same stories mentioned how the peaceful Ymaryn had always remained aloof from the affairs of the world, disinterested in the constant wars of the lowlands that their neighbors seemed so fond of. While it was known that the Ymaryn were fierce fighters, it had always been thought they were too soft to ever wage a true war of conquest.

It had become quite evident that the view of the Ymaryn as the 'peaceful hill folk' was absurdly wrong. Their conquest of the northwest part of Xohyssiri had not seemed to sate them in the slightest, their warriors cutting through any resistance offered with almost absurd ease. Only the weather had slowed them to a significant degree, but even that had never truly halted their advance under their King's banner. Ever onward they marched, until they had reached Xohyr itself, and laid seige to the great city.

The situation had only been worsened by the continued persistence of the Swamp Folk, their own armies doing disgustingly well against both the remaining Xohyssiri warriors as well as the few Thunder Horse that remained in vassalage. With Xohyssiri armies being defeated in both the east and the west, morale had dropped to lows never thought possible.

And now, the Ymaryn stood at the outer gates of Xohyr itself, their new fangled 'hammer' battering away at the gates. The king still felt a sense disbelief at the amount of iron, bronze, and wood that had been used to create the contraption, but it was clearly demonstrating its worth. Turning away, the King of the Xohyssiri departed the battlements, a sense of despair engulfing him. When the gates finally opened, there was no gallant call to arms, no attempt to rally the warriors to push back the Ymaryn horde. There was only fear and despair, as the walls that had never once fallen were finally breeched.

The Ymaryn and their lowland vassals were quick to shatter what resistance there was, with much of the outer city being looted by vengeful lowlanders, men who had nurtured a hatred for might Xohyssiri since they had first been forced to send their people to the bloody alter of the Xohyssiri gods. Men, both young and old, were put to the sword, women were taken away as spoils along with the vast wealth of the outer city's merchants.

After a time, it seemed as though the siege would simply be extended, the hammer brought forth to shatter the Skull Wall's defenses. But a change came over the Ymaryn warriors, as they set to destroying everything they could reach. Entire neighborhoods were set aflame, those who did not surrender either burned alive or were put to the sword. Flames swept through the lower city, even as the inner city was being demolished by the Ymaryn. Grand buildings that had stood for centuries were engulfed in the flames, until nothing but a burned out husk of a city remained.

GAME OVER

Molovele said:
...Holy shit. What? We're dead?

...

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Karagus said:
That is fucking bullshit, AF. Not only did the Ymaryn have the resources to actually fight a war, not only did they have superior equipment and tactics, not only did they go from peace loving hillbillies that never fight anyone to warmongers that scares the shit out of everyone, not only did they get a heroic martial to lead them, they can somehow develop siegecraft in what is pretty much their first campaign?

Do I even need to explain how that just doesn't make sense historically? Getting iron early? Ok, probably due to good luck on their part. But all that other bullshit? There was literally no way for us to win other than to not fight them, which is what we did. And then they decide to just randomly attack for no reason? Why?

SivTic said:
Karagus said:

That is fucking bullshit, AF. Not only did the Ymaryn have the resources to actually fight a war, not only did they have superior equipment and tactics, not only did they go from peace loving hillbillies that never fight anyone to warmongers that scares the shit out of everyone, not only did they get a heroic martial to lead them, they can somehow develop siegecraft in what is pretty much their first campaign?

Do I even need to explain how that just doesn't make sense historically? Getting iron early? Ok, probably due to good luck on their part. But all that other bullshit? There was literally no way for us to win other than to not fight them, which is what we did. And then they decide to just randomly attack for no reason? Why?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Savior_Whale said:
Yeah, I'm going to second that. This is such bullshit, it's not even funny. Why did the decide now was a good time to go to war? It makes sense for the swamp folk, since the rains make it so they do quite well while everyone else suffers constant hits, but the Ymaryn are hill dwellers. Not only that, they use step farms, which means their econ has to be in the toilet just as badly as everyone else's is. So why now.

Academia Fruit said:
Well, there are two main reason they went out and fought right now.

1. They aren't actually being that hurt by this. Between their high centralization, their original forest megaproject, their newly completed tier two megaproject, and the fact that they started this crisis with triple heroes and have pretty much had one hero leading them after another, they've done amazingly well. Their trait that lets them steal econ from others help a lot too, since it means they can fund a bunch of stuff they couldn't otherwise have. (Also, the trait that let's them vamp econ is called Cosmopolitan Acceptance. Pretty much lets then not just steal econ, but also tech from other civs. It's really powerful, but it's also pretty hard to get and maintain since it means you have to accept others even when it hurts you.)

2. They are currently having some political issues due to being so large, and having under-invested in their non-core territories. The conqueror king was actually from a nomad tribe they were hiring. Their heir got killed helping the nomads, and their northern territory managed to squeeze him into office while the core territories were bickering. And, well, nomads going to nomad.

You guys got to feel the suffering of the Ymaryn for a few turns. The reason the Ymaryn are so good at war is due to the nomads after all. Turns out living on the steppes makes you really, really interested in having an anti-nomad defense force at all times. And said force also tends to be pretty good against everyone else.

McHatin said:
Ouch. Still, why us though?

Also, wtf is up with their hero generation rate? Triple heroes? How?!

Academia Fruit said:
Moloch Calls.

And yeah, it's really weird sometimes. Probably helps that they are an oligarchical kingdom, so they can technically elect anyone. I mean, they elected a nomad to be king, and they hate nomads even more than they hated you guys. Even weirder is that they tend to get admin heroes.

Like, a lot of admin heroes.

Pikachu1972 said:
THAT FUCKING TRAIT!!!

Pluto said:
I hate that trait. I hate it so much.

Susana said:
So it wasn't just the swamp folk who were shrugging this weather off. Kinda sucks that politics of another faction is what killed us in the end. Though it's pretty ironic that it was the one faction we were pretty certain wouldn't go to war with us for no reason that surprise offed us.

Fuck you too Moloch Calls.

bplur said:
So the only way to have avoided this would have been to never pick up Moloch Calls? That fucking trait...

isgreat said:
How badly did we critfail our war roll though? I thought last update mentioned they weren't going to have their full army on hand due to the TS and HK threatening their iron mines. Even with battering rams we should have been able to hold them back. And why did they go from 'pillage the city' to 'burn, kill destroy'?

Academia Fruit said:
Their king had just gotten word from home that the HK had launched an attack. They failed, but it was close enough that he had to hurry back. So rather than demand your surrender, he went the nomad way and burned the city to the ground.

Metal doesn't burn, after all.

And yeah, your rolls sucked, and combined with a minor crit on the Ymaryn hero king's part... yep.

Dutchy said:
So our hope that the HK and TS would force the Ymaryn back on the defense is what destroyed us... Wow, that's really got to suck for the HK, since it means that rather than the 3v1 that they wanted, it's now a 2v1.

Academia Fruit said:
1v1. TS backed out at the last minute. Probably had something to do with you guys suddenly not existing anymore.

VocalBeginning said:
Well, at least we can enjoy the suffering of those HK bastards. They annoyed us for far too long anyways.

notgreat · Jul 3, 2017

I think that the RB should definitely be used here (we want to make sure the HK lose the war and submit quickly), so while I think that from the Lowlands is a slightly better plan I'm fine with either. Approval voting for the win.

[X] [Wonder] Library
-[X] [Wonder] Valleyhome

[X] [RB] East, go through the lowlands into the hills
[X] [RB] West, through the hills

[X] [Main] New Trails
[X] [Main] New Trails x2
[X] [Secondary] Expand Forests
[X] [Policy] Offensive

tryrar said:
On a side note, I'm actually surprised and impressed everyone followed through on the double main trails plan we had with little dissension. I actually half expected to have to argue why we need to do trails for the people who only skimmed the convo of the last couple turns to get them to vote for it.

Yeah, I'm a little bit sad that we're at a somewhat low stability but oh well. Those trails have been an item on the list a long time and it's finally starting to hit the level of a major problem. With the free switch, it's a no-brainer.

BungieONI · Jul 3, 2017

Academia Nut said:
e west would fight out of Hatvalley, which had a long trip from core territories but more local support, but would be going through narrow mountain passes into heavily fortified settlements, which was perhaps where the Red Banner would be best deployed.

Right, I was remembering something like this, I feel okay following his advice.

[X] [Main] New Trails
[X] [Main] New Trails x2
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land
[X] [Policy] Offensive

[X] [Wonder] Library
-[X] [Wonder] Valleyhome

[X] [RB] West, through the hills

Citino · Jul 3, 2017

[X] [Main] New Trails
[X] [Main] New Trails x2
[X] [Secondary] Expand Forests
[X] [Policy] Offensive

[X] [RB] West, through the hills

[X] [Wonder] Library
-[X] [Wonder] Valleyhome

Raichu1972 · Jul 3, 2017

[X] [Main] New Trails
[X] [Main] New Trails x2
[X] [Secondary] Expand Forests
[X] [Policy] Offensive

[X] [RB] West, through the hills

[X] [Wonder] Library
-[X] [Wonder] Valleyhome

fictionfan · Jul 3, 2017

Candesce said:
[X] [RB] West, through the hills

Thinking about it, this is one war I'd prefer ended as soon as possible. We're short enough on actions as is, and forcing the Highlanders to back down ought to get us extra refugees.

Our stability is currently not high.

Manget · Jul 3, 2017

[X] [Main] New Trails
[X] [Main] New Trails x2
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land
[X] [Policy] Offensive

[X] [Wonder] Library
-[X] [Wonder] Valleyhome

[X] [RB] West, through the hills

BungieONI · Jul 3, 2017

Citino said:
Negaverse: Xohyr: Endings

The Ymaryn army encircled the city, dull silver metal gleaming under the noon sunlight. Their infernal war machine rhythmically struck the gate, again and again, each blow slowly cracking the defenses of a city that had stood since time immemorial. The king grips his scepter, the wood nearly cracking under the pressure.

It had all gone so wrong, so quickly. The old stories spoke of a time when the Xohyssiri empire had encompassed land beyond imagining, a time where all had trembled in awe and fear of the might of the Xohyr, quick to offer tribute lest they attract the attention of the mighty empire.

Those same stories mentioned how the peaceful Ymaryn had always remained aloof from the affairs of the world, disinterested in the constant wars of the lowlands that their neighbors seemed so fond of. While it was known that the Ymaryn were fierce fighters, it had always been thought they were too soft to ever wage a true war of conquest.

It had become quite evident that the view of the Ymaryn as the 'peaceful hill folk' was absurdly wrong. Their conquest of the northwest part of Xohyssiri had not seemed to sate them in the slightest, their warriors cutting through any resistance offered with almost absurd ease. Only the weather had slowed them to a significant degree, but even that had never truly halted their advance under their King's banner. Ever onward they marched, until they had reached Xohyr itself, and laid seige to the great city.

The situation had only been worsened by the continued persistence of the Swamp Folk, their own armies doing disgustingly well against both the remaining Xohyssiri warriors as well as the few Thunder Horse that remained in vassalage. With Xohyssiri armies being defeated in both the east and the west, morale had dropped to lows never thought possible.

And now, the Ymaryn stood at the outer gates of Xohyr itself, their new fangled 'hammer' battering away at the gates. The king still felt a sense disbelief at the amount of iron, bronze, and wood that had been used to create the contraption, but it was clearly demonstrating its worth. Turning away, the King of the Xohyssiri departed the battlements, a sense of despair engulfing him. When the gates finally opened, there was no gallant call to arms, no attempt to rally the warriors to push back the Ymaryn horde. There was only fear and despair, as the walls that had never once fallen were finally breeched.

The Ymaryn and their lowland vassals were quick to shatter what resistance there was, with much of the outer city being looted by vengeful lowlanders, men who had nurtured a hatred for might Xohyssiri since they had first been forced to send their people to the bloody alter of the Xohyssiri gods. Men, both young and old, were put to the sword, women were taken away as spoils along with the vast wealth of the outer city's merchants.

After a time, it seemed as though the siege would simply be extended, the hammer brought forth to shatter the Skull Wall's defenses. But a change came over the Ymaryn warriors, as they set to destroying everything they could reach. Entire neighborhoods were set aflame, those who did not surrender either burned alive or were put to the sword. Flames swept through the lower city, even as the inner city was being demolished by the Ymaryn. Grand buildings that had stood for centuries were engulfed in the flames, until nothing but a burned out husk of a city remained.

GAME OVER

Pretty good!

In fact awesome. *hearty applause*

And with that...

We Are the Last of the Second.

No more civs survive from our generation.

I loved to hate you Xohyssiri but I respected the hell out of you for surviving so long. For more than 800 years you lived. You will be remembered.

*salutes with goblet*

We need a song.

NotteBoy97 · Jul 3, 2017

Academia Nut said:
Your lowland vassals are currently cleaning up the situation in the east and would appreciate help but do not need it.

Hey @Academia Nut what kind of help is this talking about? Like will expanding forest in the lowlands count as help?

[X] [Main] New Trails
[X] [Main] New Trails x2
[X] [Secondary] Expand Forests- Lowland Vassals
[X] [Policy] Offensive

[X] [RB] West, through the hills

[X] [Wonder] Library
-[X] [Wonder] Valleyhome

Abby Normal · Jul 3, 2017

I admit i skimmed a lot of the discussion since i missed a lot of pages, but i'm confused why everyones going for the library instead of a temple given that we're going to have the downsides (the north being more self-sufficient, and not needing to go to the main temple, which helps with the cultural stuff) from it via the the stallions making their own temple in a couple turns anyway, without the positives (showing the norththat the south cares and that the polity as a whole works for them, having a more broad set of priests set up a temple to push cultural/religious norms instead of letting them diverge) we'd gain from doing it now...

Susano · Jul 3, 2017

BungieONI said:
No more civs survive from our generation.

Ehhh...

There is a rather clear continuation line Original Lowlander Civilization => Western Confederacy (free Lowlanders not under Xoh control) => Highland (centralized Western Confederacy). So the Highlanders are the Lowlanders, really... wait...

Raichu1972 · Jul 3, 2017

Abby Normal said:
I admit i skimmed a lot of the discussion since i missed a lot of pages, but i'm confused why everyones going for the library instead of a temple given that we're going to have the downsides (the north being more self-sufficient, and not needing to go to the main temple, which helps with the cultural stuff) from it via the the stallions making their own temple in a couple turns anyway, without the positives (showing the norththat the south cares and that the polity as a whole works for them, having a more broad set of priests set up a temple to push cultural/religious norms instead of letting them diverge) we'd gain from doing it now...

I think it's a combination of people wanting a Library in Valleyhome for ages, not wanting the temple to diverge too much from southern values, and not being sure that a double main trails will be enough to prevent the Stallions from leaving if they get too much infrastructure.

Xantalos · Jul 3, 2017

Susano said:
Ehhh...

There is a rather clear continuation line Original Lowlander Civilization => Western Confederacy (free Lowlanders not under Xoh control) => Highland (centralized Western Confederacy). So the Highlanders are the Lowlanders, really... wait...

Well, sorta. The lowlanders were about our age, but they imploded into the Western Confederacy and the Dead Priests, also known as the Xoh. So the Xoh were a civ break behind us in terms of age, but the Highlanders are two.

Cocky whelps.

Susano · Jul 3, 2017

Xantalos said:
Well, sorta. The lowlanders were about our age, but they imploded into the Western Confederacy and the Dead Priests, also known as the Xoh. So the Xoh were a civ break behind us in terms of age, but the Highlanders are two.

I'm pretty sure the Xoh were simply a new civilization. Meanwhile, the Highland is a reformation of a remnant of the Original Lowland Civilization. I mean, basically, they just changed their name two times.

Ghostdevil · Jul 3, 2017

Susano said:
I'm pretty sure the Xoh were simply a new civilization. Meanwhile, the Highland is a reformation of a remnant of the Original Lowland Civilization. I mean, basically, they just changed their name two times.

No they were remains of the Original Low landers, while the Highlanders are the successor state to the Western Confederacy who themselves were one of the two surviving successor states of the Original Lowland civ

Abby Normal · Jul 3, 2017

Raichu1972 said:
I think it's a combination of people wanting a Library in Valleyhome for ages, not wanting the temple to diverge too much from southern values, and not being sure that a double main trails will be enough to prevent the Stallions from leaving if they get too much infrastructure.

I mean, the "wanting a library for ages" bit makes sense, i almost instinctively went for that at first, but we have word of AN that a northern temple would help with the value divergence problem?

Academia Nut said:
Ehhh... yes and no. Yes in that it would reinforce 'standard' culture, no in that they wouldn't have to go down south to visit the temple. Although that will be solved by the Stallions anyway over the next few turns...

Reader of all · Jul 3, 2017

You know Phygriff is probably our most divisive king in a while you either love him or you hate him

Abby Normal said:
I mean, the "wanting a library for ages" bit makes sense, i almost instinctively went for that at first, but we have word of AN that a northern temple would help with the value divergence problem?

Well I for one want to integrate the stallions next turn to build their canal and temple.

Paths of Civilization

Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

Please sir, may I have some Meows?

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

High Clerk of the Ymaryn

Turtle-Speed Writing

The Devil of Ghosts

High Clerk of the Ymaryn