We don't have any writing, and neither of the descriptions indicate that any of what you've just said is the case. We already keep records (on stone tablets, that we bury) - if we want to record more than that, that's what the Library is for.
I'm 99% certain that we use clay tablets primarily, not stone. Engraving is ridiculously hard for the amount of records we produce. We basically have to be imprinting clay and hardening it ala cuneiform.
 
[X] Modify belief (WotG begins to become a Value rather than Debilitating Belief)
[X] [Main] Grand Sacrifice
[X] [Secondary] Expand Forest - Stallion Tribes
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Balanced
 
Economy -1->7

Iron Tools have us back to normal again at least.

Martial 5 {7} (+1)

Reminder: We don't have enough Martial yet, because the Nomad Son survived and will be getting a posse to tear us a new asshole.

Legitimacy 2->3 (max)

That went well.

Art 5->6
Mysticism 3->4

Iron mine Canal bonus.

Huh, where did this come from?

We now have daggers as a sidearm for close in fighting and true metal maces.

The first order of things to be crafted from the new iron mine had not been primarily weapons, but tools. Now, admittedly many of these tools could be used directly as weapons such as the large number of axes and picks and the like, but the king had thought that the situation would be resolved easily enough without needing to continue the bloody-minded cycle of destruction the weapons of the gods implied. There were many People who were not happy with this decision, but when it came to felling trees and breaking soil many were immediately thankful to the king, and the sheer speed at which the People were able to build with these new tools caught them by surprise. While hunger would stalk the north for years to come, the south would be able to support their cousins.
And here we have a profusion of axes. Which work great overall for cutting wood or man. Plus it's amazing what you could do with a shovel(which needed iron to be practical) compared to stone and wood tools.

Legacies Gained!
Early Iron Bringers: Materials advancement always a possibility during Golden Ages, regardless of available excesses
Iron Blooded: Expand Econ actions produce an extra +1 Econ
Project costs have been adjusted. Some have gone done, and some have gone up to represent that much more significant projects can now be completed
And heres the massive prize of Tools. Our Expand Economy has grown enormously more powerful.

Plus I think next Golden Age we'd be able to breakthrough into Steel(probably not much left after that for a while though).

And as for the mission sent out to hunt down the nomads went... the majority came back as the seasons turned against them, and one contingent simple disappeared into the steppes, no sign of what happened to them ever being found. There was a tremendous wailing and gnashing of teeth over the issue, the People incensed about the insults and destruction wrought, and there was a tremendous push by all of the furious, angry young men to get into the warriors, the sort of push the elites actually had a bit of a problem suppressing.
Bet the missing contingent found their targets and got killed.
Value Change!
Repeated mass war actions have changed the People's views on honour, war, and humility.
Nobility in Humility Lost!
Gained Quality of It's Own

The People are well served by having a large contingent of warriors, although these warriors are also drawn in part from the labouring classes, such that losses can negatively affect productivity
Pros: Gain +1/3 of Econ as bonus Martial
Cons: Damage to Martial can carry over to Econ (additional damage from Honour of Elites does not count)
This meanwhile is...bad for us. We are FAR more vulnerable to Economic damage now, even as we get an overclocked Martial score(max goes from 12 to 16).

We'd have to avoid war where possible, and win quickly and overwhelmingly when not.

About the only good news was that the steppes outside the People's territory had mostly been rendered devoid of human habitation from the mad brutality of the fighting, and likely would be that way for a generation or two before new tribes started to wander into the vacated areas.
Though again, the Nomad Heir might be back again with a new horde for a grudge match. Best to be secure on this.
Of course, as they started to open up, the People began to chuckle darkly at the fact that the Thunder Speakers had attempted to rebel against the Thunder Horse and were not doing particularly well.
Lowlands, clusterfucked, etc.
Anyone surprised at all?

After the Thunder Speakers didn't get any aid in their conflict they wouldn't.

Meanwhile the Xohyssiri were transforming themselves into a great trade hub within the lowlands, the place where everyone could come to trade and barter. This was all done under the shadow of their bloody temples and macabre inner wall, but they had discovered that it was far simpler to trade for slaves to sacrifice rather than going out and getting them on their own, and they had already been far less bloodthirsty for generations anyway.
Golden Age transition they made. I wonder what.

Weapons of the Gods
[] Abandon belief (removes WotG)

Easy one. Just drop the superstition and hope it stays gone.

[] Modify belief (WotG begins to become a Value rather than Debilitating Belief)

Reverse the superstition, believe metal is sacred instead of cursed. Probably would lead to rapid advances in metal, but with it's own issues.

[] Challenge belief (Begins event chain)

Starts us on the road to evolving Observance.
Well worth it, but we need a Stability buffer to make the decisions.
Build Wall - Long experience with retaining walls has lead to the idea of a settlement wall for protection, and with the ability to more easily work stone the walls grow ever higher (Redhills and Blackmouth heavily walled; Redshore, Northshore, and Stonepen capitals walled; Northshore and Stonepen partially walled elsewhere)
* S: -1 Econ, minor walls
* M: -2 Econ, major walls
Our walls have evolved in quality. Once we replace them.

Expand Economy - Encourage the growth of food producing activities such as farming, pastures, or fishing, depending on where focus is placed
*S: +2 Econ, potential additional effects
* 18 Econ remain before requiring new territory
Doubled yield! This is amazing with Policy actions of course. Two Expansion action on Policy will yield us enough to pay for the rest of it

Expand Forests - The People have knowledge of how to regrow and repair forests, which extends to bringing them to places they have never been, with considerable effort. With charcoal now in higher demand, can also provide a sustainable supply (1/4 currently locked up)
* S: -1 Econ, grows forest, +1 Econ next turn if in settled territory and controlled
* M: -1 Econ, grows forest, +2 Econ next turn if in settled and controlled territory
Much more forestry is needed to fuel the forges of industry. We need 3 more of this.

Expand Snail Cultivation - While now more reliably grown and harvested, the snail domestication has only managed to hold environmental changes at bay rather than increase production. More investment would increase cultivation
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Diplo
* M: -2 Econ, +3 Diplo, potential additional effects
Main Snail ratio improved

Expand Warriors - More men can be inducted into the ranks of the warriors every year and not face major food shortfalls
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Martial
* M: -2 Econ, +3 Martial, potential additional effects
Main Warrior ratio improved.

Saltern - Northshore Saltern Expansion (0/10). Each {S} committed consumes 2 Econ for 2 Progress. Completion gives additional Diplomacy and every 2 salterns or expansions increases the per turn Diplomacy by +1
We have unlocked a Saltern Expansion with Iron, since we no longer need to look for a good location if we have Iron shovels to move the land.
Aqueduct - Redshore (0/8), Lower Valleyhome (0/4), Stonepen (0/6), Blackmouth (0/8), Sacred Forest (0/4), Redhills (0/6). Each {S} committed consumes 2 Econ for 2 Progress. Completion adds +4 Econ Expansion and can allow for the formation of another True City

Aqueducts have changed as follows:
Redshore 12->8
Lower Valleyhome 6->4
Stonepen 8->6
Blackmouth 12->8
Sacred Forest 6->4
Redhills 8->6

We can now build one Aqueduct per turn if we wanted in most cities.
Aqueducts are now Econ-positive on completion.

Grand Palace - The king's palace is not just a dwelling but a place of government, a stockpile for the People's needs, and a symbol of strength to outsiders (5-7? action commitment, -1 Econ and Art per action)
New structure for a center of government. Makes the government more defensible, and it very likely improves the Centralization cap.
Great Temple - With the ability to cut larger and larger blocks of stone and still shape it precisely, fantastically larger complexes to the gods and spirits can be raised (5-7? action commitment, -1 Econ and Art per action)
This likely unlocks the next level of the religion techtree. Not much urgency yet I think. Unless it spawns automatic Mysticism income.

Great Dam - The river can run wild and dangerous when the rains come strong, but could it not be controlled by the same principles by which the water on the hills is channelled and contained, merely on a larger scale? (5-7? action commitment, -1 Econ per action)
Stone Age Dam is gone. Long live Iron Age Dam. This is FAR larger and built with stone instead of soil.

The Mountain - What greater display of strength can the People make than to pile stone upon stone so as to create an artificial mountain that all can see? [King] (8-14? Action commitment, -1 Econ per action)
...Pyramids? This sounds like a pure Prestige torpedo.
Place to the Stars - The shamans have noticed deeper patterns among the stars than they ever imagined, and setting up long term memories of where things should be could be intensely useful, if also labour intensive to get sufficiently durable markers in place (7-10? action commitment, -1 Econ per action, some Mysticism commitment)

Giant observatory, made of stone this time. Quite nifty.

Provinces for Projects: Valleyhome, Redshore, Stonepen, Sacred Forest, Northshore, Blackriver, Redhills, Southshore
Major Holy Sites: Rainbow Trail, Sacred Forest, Holy Sea, Horse Valley, White Circle, Warrior's Rest, Star Mirror, Sunrise Grove, Skyforest, Bloodgrove, Spiritwell

Bleeding Cliffs holy site is Bloodgrove
Eastern Redhills now has Spiritwell. Spoopy.


[X] Challenge belief (Begins event chain)
[X] [Main] Grand Sacrifice
[X] [Secondary] Restoration of Order
[X] [Secondary] Restoration of Order x2

Okay, this is keeping in mind that Nomad Heir might want a rematch, so I'd prefer to max out Martial first with Offense Policy, before going onto a Wall building frenzy so that the last trick won't happen again.
Additionally, Challenge Belief requires a Stability buffer if we want to make the right choices.

This leaves us with 4 Economy, which means our provinces can exactly afford to max out our Martial and then a bit.
Though Defense Policy is still good of course. Just that we'd suffer a very unpleasant rate of exchange if NomadSon returns and our Martial is 'only' 8
 
Palace and Temple are actually phenomenally good and useful.

Palace would give an administrative bonus as all the major paperwork would flow to it, and all the bureaucratic records would be in there. Not only that, but Palaces began as huge supply depots that could store enormous amounts of food that can be doled out in times of famine.

Temple helps to get written records of myths, legends, traditions and discovery stored and preserved. Meaning we'll recall for more of our history overtime, and it'll give Writing a kick. Because Priests were the ones who truly began to use words for abstract concepts and to simplify some ideas as they were the ones who kept writing down all the stories and myths, which forced them to come up with words that can represent concepts that were normally only verbal.
Library is a separate megaproject from the Temple, and our granaries are pretty much as old as our civ, as is our bureaucracy, so I am a bit dubious about Palace too.
 
Wait, so now our military consist of both a powerful elite core and a much larger, less well-trained/equipped horde? The Ymaryn just turned into a dinosaur-less Lizardmen army.

[X] Modify belief (WotG begins to become a Value rather than Debilitating Belief)
Now imagine the above description, only with the addendum "Wields the cursed weapons of the gods". I cannot vote for anything else, sorry.

Not sure what else to vote for... Unless a Megaproject bandwagon starts up, of course.

@Academia Nut What purpose does the Great Mountain mega project serve?
What purpose doesn't a giant man-made mountain serve?

Of course, the Blight War gave us the ability to expand forests and Garden the ability to build lesser gardens, so obviously the Great Mountain will allow the Ymaryn to create hills at will. You think we are hard enough to take down now? Imagine when every single battle on Ymaryn ground takes place uphill, even after we expand.
(Note: Omegahugger is only 96% pulling this out of his ass)
 
Library is a separate megaproject from the Temple, and our granaries are pretty much as old as our civ, as is our bureaucracy, so I am a bit dubious about Palace too.
Stockpiles and bureaucracy can and will always get better. Right now we store old records in literal strata, which makes digging out old records to check for inconsistencies and corruption to be a pain in the ass. Palace is a mean to deal with that because it stores all those records in one location which makes it so that you can check old docs without having to dig into the ground to find where someone buried the tax records from last decade.
 
[X] Challenge belief (Begins event chain)
[X] [Main] Grand Sacrifice
[X] [Secondary] Restoration of Order
[X] [Secondary] Restoration of Order x2

Veevagon!
 
The Grand Palace description literally says "Stockpile for the People's use."

And I'm simply telling you what kind of things Temples and Palaces were used for/what kind of need led to their creation in the first place.
Whoops, my bad on the Stockpile - I don't know how I missed that, I read it twice. Not enough sleep I guess.

I agree those are what the buildings might end up doing, but I don't think any of the writing-based stuff will happen until writing both exists and becomes ubiquitous enough to be used for anything than recording really really important stuff.
 
[X] Challenge belief (Begins event chain)
[X] [Main] Grand Sacrifice
[X] [Secondary] Restoration of Order
[X] [Secondary] Restoration of Order x2
 
No, they technically went in through Blackriver but avoided looting until after they had forded the river at a good place and then began cutting a swath through Northshore.

So entirely preventable if only we had watchtowers there huh.

It means someone openly challenges the belief and why it is held, rather than it fading away or transforming into something else. It is very disruptive but if successful can bring great things.
Stability crisis mode!
Greater Good don't fail us now!
1. The initial response that got you Lord's Loyalty began a process that is militarizing the People. Repeated aggression and mass swings made the idea of having large numbers of warriors more psychologically appealing than humility, especially with the elites trait and all of the chariot contruction being used. You'll have to ditch Honour of Elites first to make it possible to regain Humility.
Should have seen that coming. Alas. Oh well, more Heroes I guess.

I have to ask though @Academia Nut, how would we go about removing Quality of It's Own? Or fusing it into something else at least. The Con seems devastating to us considering our ablity to spend to 1 Econ from maximum...

Or is it that when we lose Martial to 1, we start losing Economy instead?
The other possibility was Iron Fist, a casus belli generator.
Ah, FAR less nice than doubled output on Expand Economy.
Hmmm... take a shitload of mass recruitment options and ignore elite units entirely, even to the point of potentially disbanding one of your sacred warrior groups. Also piss off your noble classes repeatedly as well I suppose.
Definitely going for evolution rather than destruction.
I find it hilarious that we now have both the quality, and quantity honor trait.
It's basically a enlightenment/early modern era army concept. Masses of militia with bows and spears as the backbone, with elite cavalry and special forces as shock elements.
Palace would give an administrative bonus as all the major paperwork would flow to it, and all the bureaucratic records would be in there. Not only that, but Palaces began as huge supply depots that could store enormous amounts of food that can be doled out in times of famine.
Mostly the administration. The idea of a palace, a structure DEDICATED to administration greatly eases holding court, with audience chambers, the architecture designed to hold meetings and the layout set for clerks to move and find records quickly.
Temple helps to get written records of myths, legends, traditions and discovery stored and preserved. Meaning we'll recall for more of our history overtime, and it'll give Writing a kick. Because Priests were the ones who truly began to use words for abstract concepts and to simplify some ideas as they were the ones who kept writing down all the stories and myths, which forced them to come up with words that can represent concepts that were normally only verbal.
Actually that sounds more like the Great Library result. I think Temple is more likely to produce a steady output of priests and shamans, who can spread out to provide their services. Like a Mysticism Saltern.
 
[X] Challenge belief (Begins event chain)
[X] [Main] Grand Sacrifice
[X] [Secondary] Restoration of Order
[X] [Secondary] Restoration of Order x2

Hm. Okay. Keeping provinces on offense should increase our martial alot. And if we increase stab a lot i guess we can try to challenge.
 
@Academia Nut is there any way we can get our "nice people" traits back?
Be at peace for an extended period. Thats how we managed to get Humility/Harmony/Cosmopolitan Acceptance: by staying out of fights. If you get into fights a lot you will develop values to either help you win them, gain a profit from them, or other military benefits

It's MUCH harder to say Love Thy Neighbor when your Neighbor just tried to kill your grandfather last decade
Given that a bad roll might leave us at -1 while dragging through -3, why not go for Festivals?
Restore Order actually has a chance of winning, and the odds are pretty good when Mained and paired with Grand Sacrifice.
Also more practically, need the Econ that Festival would eat for the Provinces to rebuild our martial.
 
[X] Challenge belief (Begins event chain)
[X] [Main] Grand Sacrifice
[X] [Secondary] Restoration of Order
[X] [Secondary] Restoration of Order x2

Changing vote. I think leaving military expansion on for 1 turn would be good, as we probably won't do it ourselves (believing Iron weapons to be enough).

We definitely have to expand forests soon, otherwise we'll deplete our forests to the point where it negatively affects our farming practices.
 
Given that a bad roll might leave us at -1 while dragging through -3, why not go for Festivals?
Because that's a ~6% chance whereas it has a 77.5% chance of giving at least +1 stability, 48.75% chance of +2? (Assuming 10% GG)

Also I still think that Policy - Restoration is better, but veekie's vote is close enough to my goal and is noticeably ahead in terms of votes, I guess I'll switch because it's better than the current leader.

[X] Challenge belief (Begins event chain)
[X] [Main] Grand Sacrifice
[X] [Secondary] Restoration of Order
[X] [Secondary] Restoration of Order x2
 
Mostly the administration. The idea of a palace, a structure DEDICATED to administration greatly eases holding court, with audience chambers, the architecture designed to hold meetings and the layout set for clerks to move and find records quickly.
For the records thing, remember writing with ink versus clay tablets will dramatically change how that works (assuming it's even feasible with tablets), so we definitely want to build the Library first.

[X] Challenge belief (Begins event chain)
[X] [Main] Grand Sacrifice
[X] [Secondary] Restoration of Order
[X] [Secondary] Restoration of Order x2

Upon further consideration a policy change seems unnecessary, given our new Martial cap.
 
correction: our anti-asshole trait
Humble people can still be assholes. Although more quiet assholes are inherently less annoying than the boisterous ones proud people tend to make.

And to answer your earlier question:
1. The initial response that got you Lord's Loyalty began a process that is militarizing the People. Repeated aggression and mass swings made the idea of having large numbers of warriors more psychologically appealing than humility, especially with the elites trait and all of the chariot contruction being used. You'll have to ditch Honour of Elites first to make it possible to regain Humility.
 
Because that's a ~6% chance whereas it has a 77.5% chance of giving at least +1 stability, 48.75% chance of +2? (Assuming 10% GG)

Also I still think that Policy - Restoration is better, but veekie's vote is close enough to my goal and is noticeably ahead in terms of votes, I guess I'll switch because it's better than the current leader.

[X] Challenge belief (Begins event chain)
[X] [Main] Grand Sacrifice
[X] [Secondary] Restoration of Order
[X] [Secondary] Restoration of Order x2
Fair enough.

[X] Challenge belief (Begins event chain)
[X] [Main] Grand Sacrifice
[X] [Secondary] Restoration of Order
[X] [Secondary] Restoration of Order x2


One day, festivals. One day.
 
I wonder, would constructing an actual Veekiewagon count as a Grand Project? And if so, how can we build one?
(the Xohi built a wall of skulls, so clearly some stupidly awesome things are capable of being made)
 
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