- Pronouns
- He/Him
No update tonight, too busy.
It's K, don't worry about it.
Don't suppose you'd be willing to do a vote reset? As mentioned above, the "heroic admin applies to mid-turn ordering" is a massive change to the value of the "everyone" choice.
Someone brought up the possibility of our people sacrificing their copper tools.
It was speculation...that we can solve now actuallySomeone brought up the possibility of our people sacrificing their copper tools.
Well you've convinced me. I don't know what your actual vote is, and only half remember my old one, but here you go buddy.To display in one place the arguments for taking the maximum refugee wave:
My vote is:Well you've convinced me. I don't know what your actual vote is, and only half remember my old one, but here you go buddy.
[X] Random Admin tech upgrade
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] Grand Sacrifice (-3 Econ, +2 Stability)
[X] Everyone can come on in! (-4 Stability, chance of further loss, +11-15 Econ, further effects, chance of over crowding, Upper Valleyhome attains True City status)
I missed that one, and i'd believe it, but do you have a link just for me to be sure?(along with AN's confirmation that heroic skills apply to province actions
No, we do {S} Policy Change- Restoration.
"Are province actions affected by our king's stats?"I missed that one, and i'd believe it, but do you have a link just for me to be sure?
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I mean, the whole reason I'm voting for it now is we got confirmation that it won't kill us. Which was really something we weren't expecting.
I'm sorry, what? The Romans were incredibly progressive and forwards thinking. They made multiple advances, from tangibles such as sewers and concrete, to behavioral like military tactics and social structures. Roman roads still exist TODAY because of clever engineering and innovation, I'm not sure why you think they couldn't conceive of technological progress.The Romans probably don't conceive of anything like technological progress. Everything was virtually the same before and after they died.
I'm sorry, what? The Romans were incredibly progressive and forwards thinking. They made multiple advances, from tangibles such as sewers and concrete, to behavioral like military tactics and social structures. Roman roads still exist TODAY because of clever engineering and innovation, I'm not sure why you think they couldn't conceive of technological progress.
Oh sure. Note how only 2 of my arguments involved the math directly.One thing that I think we all should remember is the fact that the quest isn't all about the maths and number crunch of stability increase and drops and the like but also about the underlying narrative of the options presented. That is all that should be said really.
You should note that I never point to anyone specific and I would never intend to.Oh sure. Note how only 2 of my arguments involved the math directly.
Oh so it is them specifically? As in, they did something that banned them from mining?As to grand sacrifice, yes, there will be metal objects thrown into a fire/pit/the sea, but the People aren't going to huck all of their new copper tools away. That's straight up stupid and goes counter to what the update said: they acknowledge the utility of metal items, they just don't think that they should be the ones disturbing the resting places of the weapons of the gods.
Your lack of Boats disturbs me.
I mean, they are another way to bring them closer to hit them with our culture, so we should fit it in there somehow.
OTOH, Proclaim Glory is Stability...mm. Festivals maybe? They do not fit all that well narratively and are...hm.
@Academia Nut ,
2. Is Enforce Law covered by Administrative or Martial stats?
3. Are Festivals covered by Administrative, Diplomatic or Mystic stat?
4. What other actions, besides Proclaim Glory, can convince people that they can trust their leader? Because the speculated feeling of neglect kind of means they are not convinced, despite Legitimacy being maxed...
Hmm, so basically Enforce Law is most effective when high, most dangerous when low.2.) Admin or Admin+Martial, depending on how things have developed.
Others already commented on this, but it seems a Festival on the turn after next under a Diplo/Admin master should help with the provincial drift.3.) Admin + Diplo3. Are Festivals covered by Administrative, Diplomatic or Mystic stat?
4. What other actions, besides Proclaim Glory, can convince people that they can trust their leader?
4.) Technically anything that raises Stability, but showing attention to those feeling neglected can have some effect
How sensibleShe thinks about it for a bit before she says: "Have a bunch of unremarkable women leaders"
...so basically whenever there was a minor drought nobody noticed because our clerks just rolled the cost into the food penalty for criminals and other half-exiles as a punishment.Basically yeah. Not every year is a good year, but the People have mostly smoothed things out and everyone else lets the problems fall on their undesirables so there hasn't been major social disruption in a while.
See Gwygotha as an example. She was female, but was so off base that everyone thought it over and came to the conclusion that she had a male soul somewhere inside the dozens of souls.There is some potential for backfire via the "exception that proves the rule" effect, but yes, having a female reign over a golden age would help considerably at putting the idea of "female rulers = good" into people's minds. Whether or not that means all women is a bit murkier.
Ah, so kami and O-kami. Spirits of the land and fields with Great Spirits of nations and conceps.The People's worship is... hmmm... probably best to think of it as being closer to Shintoism than the pop culture idea of classical polytheism. There are all sorts of spirits, spirits for everything, but some are obviously more important and powerful than others, and over the years the language has subtly shifted to distinguish between greater and lesser spirits, and I am translating this conception of "greater spirits" to be called "gods".
Based on Attrikwyn's arguments and past issues, I think it sounds like they might be on the verge of losing Humility, and most likely already acquired the Nomad Family value, while on the verge of picking up Martial Glory if they hadn't alreadyTo an extent, I am just letting you know where the political fault lines are, so that if something bad were to happen then it would not come as a surprise where provinces might go in a hypothetical civil war.
That would be their priest caste?Average life expectancy after twenty in comparison to your neighbours tends to be five to ten years longer. More militarized groups will have the life expectancy of their leadership castes be depressed by the expectation of being able to fight causing high losses outside of peak fighting years between 25 and 40, while the Xohyssiri have comparable leadership lifespans to you.
FYI, organized religion tends to become less tolerant over time, because it contains a power structure and thus incentive to retain power and shunt blame more strongly.Hmm. Given our propensity to elevate our well-regarded kings of the past into divinity, and our ancestor worship as well as the fact our not!shintoism has a lot of room for spirits/gods to coexist- if we could eventually set up a system where we actively enshrine a good ruler as becoming a god/spirit in death. Or tie specific spiritual significance to the seat of King.
It seems like it would fit with the whole emphasis our religion has in following the teachings of Crow and learning from parables.
Considering we're sitting on buckets full of mysticism and shintoism seems like a fairly resilient and potentially tolerant religion from what I understand at least-trying to run a mega project to codify and make it into an organized religion might be ideal in the near future.
Process requires scientific method alas. Double blind experiments are a very recent idea.Most positive thing I can think of is they have the sick in the same room as some metal and give them various treatments and the sick get better. Then they do treatments of the sick with no metal in the room, and there you go metal is probably unconnected to the cough. Both of these are unlikely to occur, at least I think so
@Academia NutYes, you would get the chance to switch out if that were the case.
Also important factor: Silver is poisonous too. It's antibacterial, but that's mostly because it's poisonous and bacteria don't do well by being tiny.Not really...
Copper is biostatic, and anti-bacterial in a similar fashion.
The real problem of Observance is that it champions "Correlation implies Causation". We pulled up metal, everyone got sick, ergo metal makes people sick.
Trying for silver because it is anti-bacterial and we use it in pipes or something(which sounds kinda silly because of rarity) and sickness goes away might disprove it. Using silver, like colloidal silver drops, to heal is so far out of our intentional bailiwick with the Belief that it would basically never happen because of this thought process for our shamans "Silver is a metal. *reference Weapons of the Gods*. It must be poison!"
What would do it would be pulling up silver, and no one gets sick. That is direct disproof of the Weapons of the Gods.
Wetted cloth helps with preventing infection in caregivers, but as it can be non-symptomatic carriers in adults, the disease will continue to spread, while maintaining wet cloth at your nose will cause fungal based infections.Hmm. Maybe we're looking at it the wrong way, we can't vaccinate people, and we can't quarantine the disease totally- but if it's airborne that means it's inhaled right?
Maybe making Carrion Eaters/Midwifes wear honey soaked cloths covering their mouths and noses might potentially help? I mean, that's basically the only idea I have as for how we could treat whooping cough without the enormous leap to vaccination.
Actually, if we built a local aqueduct for them we're unlikely to be able to cut off the water, as both the source and the structure will be in their territory.1) It's a demonstration of the value of Ymaryn civilization that is continuous, and not something the northern provinces can do on their own. This both makes it of very obvious value, and also means a breakaway means losing the benefits - we'd be able to cut off the flow of water if things actually went hot, and they'd know that.
This IS true however. They'd run into a lot of problems, but I doubt it'd be definitive ones, if we do it in Stonepen first, they'd likely try to copy it though.2) Making use of aqueducts shows off one of the weaknesses of Stallion culture. Finishing the Gardens talked about how we had to reorganize people's homes to get full use out of it; consider how that will go in a society where people have claim to the land they're currently on. It takes one of the big weaknesses of Stallion culture and shoves their faces in it, and leaves the rest of the Ymaryn utterly and obviously blameless for the resulting problems.
This too, though I'd point out they already have a decent mason caste, due to building towers and walls everywhere.3) It's artisan work. One of the problems with the Stallions is their disrespect of non-military advancement tracks. Having an ever-present reminder of the value of artisans is thus likely to shift their culture in useful ways.
I'd point out that for instance, despite having a largely continuous culture and history(if not government) for 4000 years, China has significant needs for archeology to discover things about that timespan.Do you ever find it funny how we keep thinking of future archaeologists as being the same as current IRL ones?
Assuming our civilization doesn't die, our habits will be known and somewhat normal.
Mmm, Great Library probably requires developing Paper and Ink though. Writing on clay tablets is too slow, and charcoal on boards doesn't keep.We'll have to make up for it by having a freakishly comprehensive bureaucratic recordkeeping system.
*On A Tour*
Future!Xohyssiri Ambassador: My, what is that impressive building over there? Your nation's capitol building? A central marketplace?
Tour Guide: Ah, no, that's where we keep records.
Ambassador: Records? Of what, peoples' crimes? Other nations secrets?
TG: Well, that and also 7000 years worth of harvest records and statewide censes; the legally mandatory diaries of all our Kings; every work of literature or science that has entered or been created in our borders; and the drawings of children submitted at the yearly Education Festival, Law Festival, Tax Festival, and Kid-Safe Orgy Festival Alternative Event ever since public art education was instated in 1740 ACA.
Ambassador: W-what...
TG: You haven't heard of harvest records before? They're a good way of keeping track of seasonal shifts and tax evasion.
I think it's our first experience with a disease carrier type infection. Quarantines won't work even. You have to straight out close borders.Regarding pertussis, it's a bitch. Immunity is partial to begin with, and fades pretty quick. On top of that, even if the immunity stops somebody from displaying the disease, they have a nasty habit of still acting as a carrier. This is not like smallpox.
That's a pretty good turnaround time for healers. Sacred Warding's effect?In most places the local shaman would try to visit within the day, although there are obviously times when they get busy and would end up taking longer because they have some other ritual to do or other people to look over.
It's valuable.They sacrifice things of value. Why would they try to sacrifice something that is cursed
Mixed. We sacrifice things by burning, but we also specifically sacrifice pottery, which cannot burn.
*facepalm*It's not based on sexism!!
It IS based on sexism!!
Different points.
Which, as explicitly stated before, is pretty much tapped out. Study Health will not return results, because the only way to prove metal is not evil with Study Health requires methodology that do not exist. Even if you identify a cause for it, they'd say one thing can be caused by more than one thing.Missed the point: the vote/issue is: "do we do Study Health or not." Health, not Metal.
Not effective on airbourne pathogens unless using silk. Current fibers do not have a thread density sufficient to obstruct bacteria.
Or you know, they already have copper tools, so building boats is way cheaper for them.or that they can go to someone's house and take it
or that they weren't poor before becoming bandits, ie they were influential and politics change
or that they were fishers and fishers have boats cus they fish
That's the factor yeah.You're missing the point. I don't expect all of our copper tools to be destroyed, I expect the belief to become further entrenched.
Toxic fumes are even more likely to convince people that it's cursed however. But there are other means of sacrifice.My argument was not that it wouldn't work because it wouldn't burn.
My argument was that it wouldn't burn, it would melt. In which process it might release toxic fumes as we aren't necessarily working with pure copper. Those toxic fumes would cause them to realize that trying to sacrifice tools might not be the best idea.