- Pronouns
- He/Him
No update tonight, too busy.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Motoko
Herald of Iron to The People
- Location
- Canada, ontario
It's K, don't worry about it.
Don't suppose you'd be willing to do a vote reset? As mentioned above, the "heroic admin applies to mid-turn ordering" is a massive change to the value of the "everyone" choice.
That being said, thanks for writing, and good luck with whatever you need to do.
- Location
- Australia
Someone brought up the possibility of our people sacrificing their copper tools.
- Location
- Hell
It was speculation...that we can solve now actually
@Academia Nut Would Metal Tools be included in the Grand Sacrifice?
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Well you've convinced me. I don't know what your actual vote is, and only half remember my old one, but here you go buddy.
[X] notgreat
My vote is:
[] Random Admin tech upgrade
[] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[] Grand Sacrifice (-3 Econ, +2 Stability)
[] Everyone can come on in! (-4 Stability, chance of further loss, +11-15 Econ, further effects, chance of over crowding, Upper Valleyhome attains True City status)
It drops stability to a low -1 or -2, but Policy:Restoration combined with heroic bonuses (along with AN's confirmation that heroic skills apply to province actions) means that we get out of that really fast. It gives a truly ridiculous amount of economy, and gives us significant advances in several distinct areas, and our restoration options give nice bonus effects due to the heroic skills we have.
Omegahugger's vote is similar but goes for +1 stability instead of the admin tech upgrade. I figure that the tech is better since Policy: Restoration will deal with the stability loss very nicely if Greater Good doesn't kick in, and the tech might help us deal with the city or the March better. This way also guarantees that Restore Order is available if Greater Good doesn't trigger, whereas Omegahugger's will be at 0 stability if we get -4 instead of -5.
That being said, it's not likely to win since the -0.5 stability option got a massive lead while everyone thought that the -4.5 option was able to lead to instant-death due to bad admin rolls. With that clarified, IMO we should've had a vote reset.
- Location
- Hell
Okay, this is weird, but it feels like every vote for notgreat seems to have lowered Grand Sacrifice and I'm like
But he's voting for it???
...I should try and get some sleep.
But he's voting for it???
...I should try and get some sleep.
[X] Random Admin tech upgrade
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] Grand Sacrifice (-3 Econ, +2 Stability)
[X] Everyone can come on in! (-4 Stability, chance of further loss, +11-15 Econ, further effects, chance of over crowding, Upper Valleyhome attains True City status)
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] Grand Sacrifice (-3 Econ, +2 Stability)
[X] Everyone can come on in! (-4 Stability, chance of further loss, +11-15 Econ, further effects, chance of over crowding, Upper Valleyhome attains True City status)
- Location
- Philippines
Hmm going all in on making a city is very tempting but it will lead to even more intigration issues though so I guess if welcome everyone wins we should take
Main New trails
Main Grand sacrifice
Either this or
Main new trails
Sec restore order
Sec Aquaducts-the march
Main New trails
Main Grand sacrifice
Either this or
Main new trails
Sec restore order
Sec Aquaducts-the march
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Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I missed that one, and i'd believe it, but do you have a link just for me to be sure?
Also, since we've got at least until the morning...I'll switch for now in the interests of making it a little more possible to be a competition, and decide in the morning which to go with in the end.
[] Random Admin tech upgrade
[] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[] Grand Sacrifice (-3 Econ, +2 Stability)
[] Everyone can come on in! (-4 Stability, chance of further loss, +11-15 Econ, further effects, chance of over crowding, Upper Valleyhome attains True City status)
Edit: Rechanged my mind, didn't feel like posting a new vote, so just un-Xing this oneso my earlier vote counts again
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Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
[X] Random Admin tech upgrade
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] Grand Sacrifice (-3 Econ, +2 Stability)
[X] Everyone can come on in! (-4 Stability, chance of further loss, +11-15 Econ, further effects, chance of over crowding, Upper Valleyhome attains True City status)
Yolo status I guess
Hopefully we don't die
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] Grand Sacrifice (-3 Econ, +2 Stability)
[X] Everyone can come on in! (-4 Stability, chance of further loss, +11-15 Econ, further effects, chance of over crowding, Upper Valleyhome attains True City status)
Yolo status I guess
Hopefully we don't die
- Location
- The willow crowned hill
- Pronouns
- She/They
[X] Random Admin tech upgrade
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] Grand Sacrifice (-3 Econ, +2 Stability)
[X] Everyone can come on in! (-4 Stability, chance of further loss, +11-15 Econ, further effects, chance of over crowding, Upper Valleyhome attains True City status)
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] Grand Sacrifice (-3 Econ, +2 Stability)
[X] Everyone can come on in! (-4 Stability, chance of further loss, +11-15 Econ, further effects, chance of over crowding, Upper Valleyhome attains True City status)
Ancient Scholar
Amateur Editor/Beta
- Location
- United States
[X] New Trails (-1 Econ, +1 Diplo, +1 Centralization, other effects)
No, we do {S} Policy Change- Restoration.
The provinces then get 2 mains to choose between Restoration of Order, Improved Festival, and Grand Sacrifice. (Possibly also Enforce Law, but that doesn't seem to fit) I highly suspect they will take the former two to take advantage of our hero's stats. We likely will also need to make a new province to deal with the near-overcrowding situation we'll be at (as well as getting the extra action), and have a secondary action free to salt gift or do infrastructure or whatever needs to be done. We could go {M} New Trails if we get lucky and automatically make a new province. If not, we'll do it the turn immediately after as we'll be in an excellent condition then with plenty of econ, stability, and actions to spare. We could also spend that action on a {S} New Trails since that has the same "other effects" listed just without the diplo gain.
"Are province actions affected by our king's stats?"
---
I mean, the whole reason I'm voting for it now is we got confirmation that it won't kill us. Which was really something we weren't expecting.
Specifically:
"if we pick Maggie, does her heroic admin proc for the other mid-turn orderings (I.E. do we use her roll to decide which stability-affecting actions go first)?"
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- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
I'm sorry, what? The Romans were incredibly progressive and forwards thinking. They made multiple advances, from tangibles such as sewers and concrete, to behavioral like military tactics and social structures. Roman roads still exist TODAY because of clever engineering and innovation, I'm not sure why you think they couldn't conceive of technological progress.
One thing that I think we all should remember is the fact that the quest isn't all about the maths and number crunch of stability increase and drops and the like but also about the underlying narrative of the options presented. That is all that should be said really.
- Location
- Australia
[X] Random Admin tech upgrade
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] Grand Sacrifice (-3 Econ, +2 Stability)
[X] Everyone can come on in! (-4 Stability, chance of further loss, +11-15 Econ, further effects, chance of over crowding, Upper Valleyhome attains True City status)
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] Grand Sacrifice (-3 Econ, +2 Stability)
[X] Everyone can come on in! (-4 Stability, chance of further loss, +11-15 Econ, further effects, chance of over crowding, Upper Valleyhome attains True City status)
- Location
- United States
They also used other civilizations' ideas whenever they could. They were definitely innovative.
Oh sure. Note how only 2 of my arguments involved the math directly.
This also makes a great narrative: The People welcome in a massive refugee wave on the tail end of their golden age, causing uncertainty and chaos. Then, our heroic Queen rapidly restores confidence in the people while making the first True City anyone has ever seen, uniting the people and stamping out corruption simultaneously.
edit: Here's what I'm initially thinking for the next two turns if my plan wins (and GG doesn't trigger):
T1: {M} New Province {S} Policy- Restoration {S} New Trails
T2: {M} Aqueduct {S} Salt Gift {S} ??? (Trade Mission or whatever comes up as needed)
T2.5: free switch to a new policy. (Progress, Expansion, or Infrastructure depending on how things are looking)
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You should note that I never point to anyone specific and I would never intend to.
Personally, I am not voting on this round because I am content whichever way the proverbial winds blows. I am mostly here for the ride.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
As to grand sacrifice, yes, there will be metal objects thrown into a fire/pit/the sea, but the People aren't going to huck all of their new copper tools away. That's straight up stupid and goes counter to what the update said: they acknowledge the utility of metal items, they just don't think that they should be the ones disturbing the resting places of the weapons of the gods.
- Location
- Hell
Oh so it is them specifically? As in, they did something that banned them from mining?
Hmm, so basically Enforce Law is most effective when high, most dangerous when low.
Depends on whether the naughty chiefs have enough backing to raise an army.
God I miss Restore Harmony
Others already commented on this, but it seems a Festival on the turn after next under a Diplo/Admin master should help with the provincial drift.
How sensible
...so basically whenever there was a minor drought nobody noticed because our clerks just rolled the cost into the food penalty for criminals and other half-exiles as a punishment.
The normal Ymaryn notice nothing because their food is at normal levels.
The criminals notice nothing because they're being punished anyway, and assume it's the way of things.
See Gwygotha as an example. She was female, but was so off base that everyone thought it over and came to the conclusion that she had a male soul somewhere inside the dozens of souls.
Magwyna on the other hand is...very normal aside from her skill.
Born in Valleyhome to a common stonemason, then apprenticed to clerks and helped as a diplomat, then elected Artisan chief by the artisans.
Traveled to Southshore and married a common potter, and gave birth to multiple children, of which she buried two young.
Humble and did not seek power on her own, but ironically her detractors pushed her to do so.
Pretty much as close to an everyman hero for the People as it gets...in Valleyhome.
In the Stallion Tribes, women were not involved in masonry, and there wasn't enough to manage to have substantial numbers of clerks. They certainly wouldn't be sent on diplomatic missions.
-Thus, her achievements were doubted. It sounds fake. Obviously a good and proper woman couldn't do all those things. Look around you, they're all busy raising families!
In the Stallion Tribes, people did not travel to other provinces often, lacking the trails to do so, while boats were too costly for individuals to travel much. People, especially the women tended to be tied to their families, and traveled with their families.
-Thus her travels show her to be footloose and she clearly must have bought her travel by using sex, despite being married.
Urgh, channeling dubious political views to get their perspective feels icky.
Ah, so kami and O-kami. Spirits of the land and fields with Great Spirits of nations and conceps.
Based on Attrikwyn's arguments and past issues, I think it sounds like they might be on the verge of losing Humility, and most likely already acquired the Nomad Family value, while on the verge of picking up Martial Glory if they hadn't already
That would be their priest caste?
Since they'd have good healthcare, disproportionate access to nutrition at the expense of lower classes, without suffering the attrition of the warrior caste.
FYI, organized religion tends to become less tolerant over time, because it contains a power structure and thus incentive to retain power and shunt blame more strongly.
On the other hand religious reform towards a core religious text would help maintain a more consistent core belief system over time, mitigating cultural drift in periphery provinces. Albeit at the cost of religious differences becoming fracture points instead of local variation.
Process requires scientific method alas. Double blind experiments are a very recent idea.
@Academia Nut
Can you clarify if Expansion or Trade Policy would also offer a switch out if they reach their stat cap?
Also important factor: Silver is poisonous too. It's antibacterial, but that's mostly because it's poisonous and bacteria don't do well by being tiny.
Admittedly you'd have to ingest quite a large amount for it ot be deadly.
Wetted cloth helps with preventing infection in caregivers, but as it can be non-symptomatic carriers in adults, the disease will continue to spread, while maintaining wet cloth at your nose will cause fungal based infections.
There was basically no cure for it in this era as a result.
Only antibiotics help at all, and that's only before you're symptomatic. Pretty much the proven cure then, socially is:
-Be well fed
-Be clean
-And then just wait for the population to develop a resistance over generations once it kills off every child who isn't.
Actually, if we built a local aqueduct for them we're unlikely to be able to cut off the water, as both the source and the structure will be in their territory.
This IS true however. They'd run into a lot of problems, but I doubt it'd be definitive ones, if we do it in Stonepen first, they'd likely try to copy it though.
Good synergy with a later Festival to hammer the point in?
This too, though I'd point out they already have a decent mason caste, due to building towers and walls everywhere.
I'd point out that for instance, despite having a largely continuous culture and history(if not government) for 4000 years, China has significant needs for archeology to discover things about that timespan.
Cultural drift happens, even if you're continuous. Crywl's generation would be quite confused at our making Purity, Humility and Charity as cornerstones of our culture. Gwygotha would have been just as confused about the Humility, and our now maniacal devotion to the land.
Mmm, Great Library probably requires developing Paper and Ink though. Writing on clay tablets is too slow, and charcoal on boards doesn't keep.
But it's a worthy goal!
I think it's our first experience with a disease carrier type infection. Quarantines won't work even. You have to straight out close borders.
It's like Pestilence looked at us getting cocky and pulled out one of the special surprises.
That's a pretty good turnaround time for healers. Sacred Warding's effect?
It's valuable.
And cursed
Mixed. We sacrifice things by burning, but we also specifically sacrifice pottery, which cannot burn.
So a mix.
*facepalm*
The problem is Stallion Tribes cultural divergence.
-Local sexism is a symptom of the cultural divergence in our northern provinces.
-Regionally sexism is not significant enough to matter.
Hence why you see Valleyhome, Redshore and Southshore not seeing why her being female is a problem, while Stallion Tribes, Northshore and Stonepen consider it as a horrible thing.
The actual problem is cultural differences. The sexism thing is merely a symptom.
Which, as explicitly stated before, is pretty much tapped out. Study Health will not return results, because the only way to prove metal is not evil with Study Health requires methodology that do not exist. Even if you identify a cause for it, they'd say one thing can be caused by more than one thing.
Correlation = Causation means that "Hmm, widespread use of copper tools coincides with widespread increase in disease".
Really, if you want to break it, do a bunch more Surveys and find more mine sites.
And hopefully don't find an arsenic or lead mine because that'd just convince more people that it's evil.
Not effective on airbourne pathogens unless using silk. Current fibers do not have a thread density sufficient to obstruct bacteria.
Or you know, they already have copper tools, so building boats is way cheaper for them.
That's the factor yeah.
Toxic fumes are even more likely to convince people that it's cursed however. But there are other means of sacrifice.
We already sacrifice pottery.