I do not really understand why do you think 'collapse a polity' and 'people are really damn happy with their country' are comparable.
And yes, I've seen the link. We are not stagnant, and while we do have our fair share of societal problems, high Stability can only be a boon in dealing with them.
I do not really understand why do you think 'collapse a polity' and 'people are really damn happy with their country' are comparable.
And yes, I've seen the link. We are not stagnant, and while we do have our fair share of societal problems, high Stability can only be a boon in dealing with them.
@Killer_Whale, I'm not sure why you keep rating my votes as "Insightful". If you want me to do an analysis, just say it. The reason I don't write analysis so often nowadays is because I have a new 9-5 job that's taking up a lot of my time.
But since you insist...
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of "zamin over analyses everything".
To sum up this last turn:
"Welcome! Welcome to our humble city! Please, feel free to sample our wares."
[X] Begin work on the Garden (-1 Econ, +1 Stability, starts megaproject)
[X] Xohyssiri
So having completed the Saltern, we're continuing to spam out wonders like the Communist lovechild of Civ 6's China and Brazil. We also decided to pay a visit to the Xohyssiri to see if they still have their BONE WALL OF DOOM and figure out what they've been up to for the last... couple hundred years? Not sure of the timing, to be honest, but the last time we saw them the Spirit Talkers were still a thing.
The People were somewhat surprised by the swiftness of their own construction, so with the need for fresh water also something on their mind, the king approved a project that some had talked about around campfires for some time, which was to make a canal that flowed into a city to provide fresh water directly, instead of requiring to walk a significant way to the river or a well. It would also better help flush the drainage ditches and a few other considerations. Upper Valleyhome had long been considered a good place to start, as while it was at the top of a local high point it was still well below well watered hills with a pre-existing reservoir and irrigation network. There would be a fair amount of earth moving required, but it was a relatively simple task all things considered to get a small canal down from those hills and into the city. What would be more complicated would be rearranging things to ensure that there would be proper waterflow throughout the settlement, which would require... basically every structure to be demolished and relocated, but since everything was already laid out on a grid and old buildings were often torn down and replaced anyway, the task was really more about accelerating the replacement schedule and moving things about during that time. Streets would be widened, more boulevards put in place, and channels to carry fresh and waste water would be laid underneath brick lined streets. It would take time, but the project had multiple provinces for backing. While some of it was just for the prestige of it all, a big part was that the chiefs recognized that Valleyhome was a good test case to see if they could extend the concept to other large settlements.
- Ah, so the construction itself isn't a big problem for us. It's the fact that we're testing out a new design to bring water through our settlements. All our provinces are interested in seeing if this is something they can install in their own settlements, which is why they're so happy to help.
- Also, it seems that our obsessive communism is once again an advantage here. Since our people don't actually own their own land, there's no protests from land-owners whenever we need to demolish some buildings. This means that any old buildings can be torn down and replaced with better versions as time goes by and the city expands, which is good for our long term growth.
- From what I can tell, completing the Gardens gives us a basic aqueduct and proto-sewer system, both of which will definitely come in handy for any of our settlements. I wonder if we get a new "Build Aqueduct" option once this completes?
Meanwhile, the king summoned forth the healers from the Xohyssiri and said to them, "We thank you for your teaching us of your skills, and of speaking of your people. While we are still wary of your ways, let it not be said that we will turn anyone away simply for being strange. As such we shall be outfitting a major trade caravan to speak with your people, and if you wish to accompany them to return to your people that is acceptable to both me and the People."
Of the surviving healers, time having culled their numbers, there was some consideration as technically they had been given as part of the gift and it wasn't precisely proper to return a gift, but some of them making the return trip could be seen of as continuing to aid the People by aiding them, and they could consult with the people in charge back home once they got there. So some joined up with the caravan, while those who wished to stay remained behind.
- The Xohyssiri healers seem to have settled in alright, though age has taken a toll on their numbers.
- I'm actually quite pleased that some of them decided to stay with us even when they were given the option to go home. Of course, considering their age, they might have decided that going on a long journey would have been too stressful
It took many seasons for the caravan dispatched to work its way back to the People, but the traders brought with them fantastical stories of the Xohyssiri. Mostly that while they weren't nearly as bad as rumours and legends suggested, they were still a thoroughly unpleasant lot, who yes, did have a wall studded with skulls around the centre of the city, which was at least as big as Valleyhome, if not larger. There were, however, two additional layers of wall around the city: one around a vast sprawl of lower class and slave housing, and another, much lower wall that spread out to encapsulate the farmland around the city. This second one was primarily to make any chariot raids a much bigger pain than to really keep out dedicated attackers, but since chariot raids were the main threat it worked quite well at its job. While morbidly decorated at the gates, these newer walls were significantly less gruesome than the ancient structure that was still maintained with fresh blood and skulls, but thankfully no longer really expanded.
- So their capital is about as big as ours, though far less organized. The Bone Wall is still both impressive and terrifying
- They seem to have 3 layers: the "inner" city which is protected by the Bone Wall, the "slums" which is where the slaves and poor people live, and the "farms" where they grow the food needed to feed their city
- Their farms are protected by a small wall meant to stop chariots from getting through. It's an interesting idea, one that we should probably try with our border provinces at some point
The spirits they paid tribute to in sacrifices both mundane and human were also about as bad as trade stories described, with more than a few traders considering that the Xohyssiri should get better gods once they were well away from the place, although there were a few that the People felt had some redeeming values, although most of those weren't the major ones that had big temple complexes... although perhaps the fact that they didn't have major temples that offered up at least one human sacrifice once a year had something to do with why the People didn't mind them so much. The one the People had the least issue with was definitely Tuultox, a spirit with the lower body of a snake and the upper body of a woman whose venom could serve as both disease and cure, something the more spiritually apt knew was true of most medicines, with the dosage and application making the difference. While they didn't exactly approve of some of the bloodier aspects, Tuultox also didn't demand active human sacrifice so for one of the major ones that put her leagues ahead of the rest.
In case you don't remember what the Dead Priests gods are like:
Major Spirits of the Xohyssiri/Dead Priests
Thunderbird - A rainbow winged eagle who brings rain and destruction, Thunderbird shaped the world with the beating of his wings, bringing forth all things good and evil. He requires blood both so that he will not hunt on his own and thus bring ruinous weather with his flight, and to strengthen him when he battles more destructive demons and gods
Choxosyn - Head of a lion, body of a man, and legs of a bull, Choxosyn is the demon god of conquest who requires a steady supply of virgin maidens sent to him to keep him preoccupied with fulfilling his immediate lusts, so that he will not head out into the world to shake the ground with his passage or draw Thunderbird's ire. Enemy warriors can instead be sacrificed to him in order to gain his favour when on conquest
Tuultox - Serpentine goddess of disease and healing, her venoms can bring both death and life, depending upon her whims. Invoked by both prostitutes and pregnant mothers for protection, with the deaths of either considered to be her feast of blood
Teossoxyn - A demon who dwells within the north star, he is entirely random and destructive, and can only be satiated with the blood of loyal warriors, although not necessarily their deaths
Not a very pleasant lot, are they? Funny thing is, most of these seem to be parallels of other civilizations' gods, only with the whole BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD thing turned up to eleven.
Our people feel that the only decent god the Xohyssiri have is Tuultox, the lamia goddess of disease and healing - mainly because she's the only one who doesn't demand active human sacrifice.
More practically, the People had to acknowledge that for all its gruesome character and unpleasant smell, the city of the Xohyssiri was prosperous and a major hub for trade, with numerous rare and exotic goods brought to an enormous square where they were exchanged and swapped. While not unique, the large loads of dye and precious metal had certainly made for a vigorous trade, netting rare cloths, beautiful artwork, and a few daggers of 'Eastern copper', a strange variation on copper that was used by a few of the Eastern Thunder Horse that held an edge much better than regular copper, and was a bit more golden in colour than copper. While still not terribly useful for making weapons, the knives made from the material were good enough to make a useful replacement for stone or wood variants, and the Xohyssiri occasionally picked them up off the battlefield. And then of course there was the big product: ceramics. The Xohyssiri had ceramics that exceeded anything the People made in terms of shape, patterning, and quality of glaze.
Overall, while the People weren't entirely certain about any sort of continued relationship with the Xohyssiri, continued trade with them could probably be beneficial, and perhaps by talking to them they might introduce them to some non-psychotic spirits to worship, although there was some unease over the possibility of someone offering a heart up to Crow in the future. Also, fighting would probably block the route again in the future, but for the moment there would probably be good things coming up from the south for a time, and the People might learn a thing or two from the Dead Priests.
- So the Xohyssiri are kinda like the Venice of this era - a major trading hub where you can find stuff from all over the world (or at least the parts of the world that happen to be nearby). Pity about those slums, though. That's bound to make them more vulnerable to fire and disease (which also helps to explain why they've done some research on medicine).
- 'Eastern Copper', huh? I thought it was bronze at first, but some people are saying it might be brass instead. Either way, someone is doing metal and it's not us.
- The Xohyssiri's local specialty seems to be ceramics, of all things. They're more advanced then us in that field. Is it because they use different materials, or are our ovens just not up to par?
- To sum up, our people aren't exactly the Xohyssiri's biggest fans (the whole human sacrifice thing kinda put a damper on our relationship), but they are at least willing to consider doing more trading in the future. Of course, if the Lowlands starts going to war again, we won't be able to reach them anyway, so...
Yeesh, that's a lot of Diplomacy. Our Economy and Martial seem to be fairly stable, though.
We're maxed out on Stability and Legitimacy, which seem to be a good thing. Not sure why Stability is green, but I'm hoping it's a good sign. @Academia Nut, could you confirm what the green Stability means for us?
Centralization is still borderline. Hopefully we can get it down soon so that we can start building trails and linking up with the March.
All our Cultural stats seem healthy. I'm not sure what higher Prestige gets us, but I'm happy we have it anyway.
Legacies
+2 Centralization Tolerance
+1 Hierarchy Tolerance Rush Builders: Extended projects cost more per turn but complete faster
This looks new. Very useful for our wonder spamming civ, don't you think?
Everything else seems the same.
----------------------------
CHOICES
Lots of choices once again this turn. Let's go through a few of the more interesting ones.
Grand Sacrifice - Communal sacrifice is a great way to bring the People together, and to also even out class distinctions. NOTE: Because the People do not use human sacrifice, the Econ costs are especially harsh. Max Stability: Legitimacy
*S: -2 Econ, +1 Stability
*M: -3 Econ, +2 Stability
Improve Annual Festival - A festival for every season, but their expansion can help put the People at ease and teach good practices.
* M: -2 Econ, +1 Stability, +1 Art chance for additional effects
* 2M: -3 Econ, +1 Stability, +3 Art, chance for additional effects
* Max Stability: Legitimacy - 1
Restoration of Order - The people are uncertain, and into that uncertainty bad behaviour can flow. Send in the warriors to reassure people and root out corruption and dissent, restoring the proper function of the People. Max Stability: 0 or Legitimacy, whichever is lower
* S: Gain -1 to 2 Stability
* M: Roll twice, take best result
* modified by Administrative skill
These are all unavailable to us for the moment because for once we have a good Stability buffer.
Salt Gift - With the saltern, the People have access to tremendous amounts of salt, which can be used to awe outsiders
*S: -5 Diplomacy, random amount of Diplomacy, Art, and Prestige generated
*M: -5 Diplomacy, random amount of Diplomacy, Art, and Prestige generated (min. 1 of each) and the possibility of Mysticism generation
Our new action, unlocked by the Saltern Megaproject. Burns a lot of Diplomacy for boosts to Diplomacy, Art, Prestige and maybe even Mysticism, which is pretty amazing. Fortunately, our Saltern passively gives us one Diplomacy per turn, so we can afford to use this multiple times if we're patient enough. According to AN, this is the Stone Age equivalent of driving into your neighbor's house and dropping a ton of gold on his garden.
Let's do this to everyone at least once.
Copper Mine - A source of copper is known within the People's territory, and it can be expanded to produce not just small amounts of the ore for art purposes, but into a full fledged mine. The effects are unpleasant but the People think they can contain the worst of it.
*S: -3 Econ, +5 Econ next turn, other effects
*M: +3 Econ, other effects
One of the two big bandwagons of this turn. People want metal and they want it now, dammit.
Trade Mission - Sending a major caravan to another large group can bring new opportunities and find out more about the outside world
* S: -1 Diplo, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of of turn;
* M: -1 Diplo, -1 Econ, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of turn, +1-2 Diplo next turn
The second bandwagon. This is people going "Let's try to influence all our neighbors before they stabilize and start up the war again". Has a limited window of opportunity, though it does push back the mine for another turn.
Honestly, it's a bit of a tricky choice for me. On one hand, I really want to get metal now. On the other, veekie and a few other people have argued that we have a small window of opportunity before the Highlanders and Thunder Speakers start stabilizing again, so this is our last chance to safely send those trade missions.
While I originally voted for Copper Mine, now that I've thought about it further I've decided to switch to the trade missions instead.
[X] [Kick] The Garden
[X] [Main] New Settlement - Southern Shores
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Western Thunder Horse/Thunder Speakers
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Highland Kingdom
Finish off that Mega Project, plop down a settlement on prime beach estate, and send our traders to swindle our neighbors for everything they've got.
Honestly, it's a bit of a tricky choice for me. On one hand, I really want to get metal now. On the other, veekie and a few other people have argued that we have a small window of opportunity before the Highlanders and Thunder Speakers start stabilizing again, so this is our last chance to safely send those trade missions.
Awesome analysis as always zamin. Hope the job is going well, hopefully no pointy haired managers to get in the way?
The only thing I question is exactly how limited our window is. May-hap it will open again?
Let's take a look at the reasons to do it now:
We have a degrading bonus due to saving everyone's lives from cholera. A reason to start trade I agree. [1]
We can speculate that there will be values transference if we head to the HK, while they are Lawing things up. I agree there is a chance of this occurring but I consider it slim. [2]
Things are not exploding right now so we can get some gains out of them if we reach out before folks stabilize. [3]
We will get access to poppy seeds and cotton. @veekie is concerned that we will suddenly lose the knowledge of what it looks like. This seems suspect to me? Shall we ask the almighty QM? Personally I think that even if we lose it now, we can still get it back later, for the reason that a medicinal herb, especially a painkiller, is valuable. With salt gift it makes sense to me that they may trade their own valuable things to us, like poppy, without our asking. [4]
@Academia Nut have the Dead Priest healers we received, who told us of Poppy, written it's description down? Have they somehow recorded the knowledge of what it looks like so we can ask for it when we visit the Highlanders or Southern Hill People? Is it reasonable to expect that the southern hill people, for example, will give us Poppy for rolling up and dropping a frack load of salt on their lawn even if we don't ask for it specifically?
Reasons to not do it now:
@Motoko will have a Scanners head-splosion from delaying metal another turn. I don't think the thread wants to be scrubbing boiled brain yuck out of their noses for the next week, hmmm? [1b]
More seriously metal helps with our infrastructure and that is of course a core part of our civ. We can expect to see run on effects to grabbing it for the next couple of centuries. It specifically helps the Megaprojects we are doing right now. Finishing those quickly would let us do other things. Like planting trees. [2b]
The crux of my concern is claiming that "this is our last chance to safely send a trade mission" is being not entirely accurate. I think it is more accurate to say "this is our last chance for the next 3 to 5 turns to safely send a trade mission". The Lowlands will always go to war, but I think we should also internalize the flip side of that cosmic truth, that the Lowlands will always become temporarily peaceful. [3b]
So looking at these reasons [4] is up in the air for me and I'm just gonna discard it as a consideration until we get an answer. [3b] counters [3] for my thinking, we will get another chance to poke them in several turns when the wheel of war turns back to peace.
[2] is a good chance to take. [2b] is unconnected to [2] and works on a completely different track, and finishing the Megaproject we have lined up without pushing our econ to 2 or 3 seems prudent. [1] Not a whole lot to refute here, but I will state that we should remember that more crises of a similar nature will occur down there and we could get a similar bonus later. [1b] is for my own personal mental health, boiled brain is not pleasant going down.
The calculus here tilts me towards metal now and either trading next turn or just leaving them to their own devices. Those devices might annoy the giggity out of us but anything that threatens us would take enough effort to put the aggressor at risk of getting kidney shanked by one of their other enemies.
Wrong way round.
We've done Study forest ONCE. Not that we have one use left.
Okay, basic problem:
An Azurite mine will never produce any advance towards bronze. Just in case people are under that misconception(I hope not). It is a mine of Copper, with Sulfates and Carbonates.
Bronze materials:
-Arsenic - Obtainable in silver ores. Coexists with some copper ores(not Azurite/Malachite). Poisonous material.
-Tin - Obtainable in completely different regions, and of significant rarity. We may not have any Tin in our territory at all.
Brass materials:
-Zinc - It doesn't breakthrough into alloys on it's own, since metallic zinc isn't obtainable yet. You pretty much get brass by accidentally mixing zinc ore in.
-Lead - Obtainable in silver ores. Results in a weaker metal than usual.
If you want to get access to either Brass or Arsenic Bronze, you're going to need to send a trade mission rather than try to climb a tech tree which we're lacking an entire branch of.
If you're doing the copper mine to enhance our New Trails, projects and Megaprojects, do go on. It's eminently practical and efficient. Just different priorities.
I didn't know there was different types of cooper. Is there a difference between Azurite cooper and cooper that is used in Bronze? And how do you know which one we have?
I didn't know there was different types of cooper. Is there a difference between Azurite cooper and cooper that is used in Bronze? And how do you know which one we have?
It's not a difference in copper but a difference in the ore the copper is smelted from. Some ores contain impurities that make them bronze, but typically an arsenic+copper bronze rather than the tin+copper bronze that we're used to.
We know which one we have because of descriptions of the soils it was found in and the fact that our people have yet to go "I smelted this ore but it ended up different than the copper we buy from the MW." Admittedly, we have yet to start smelting, though.
We know which one we have because of descriptions of the soils it was found in and the fact that our people have yet to go "I smelted this ore but it ended up different than the copper we buy from the MW." Admittedly, we have yet to start smelting, though.
We don't actually know for sure- the azurite shows the copper on the surface isn't mixed with arsenic, but it's entirely possible the copper deeper beneath the earth has arsenic in it.
Tin is very much a long shot, though, we are probably going to have to trade for it unless we're insanely lucky.
Quick question but does anyone think we might have to wall south Shore to protect it from the pirate raiders because I remember that people were saying that it was good that we walled up redshore since it helps prevent raiders.
We don't actually know for sure- the azurite shows the copper on the surface isn't mixed with arsenic, but it's entirely possible the copper deeper beneath the earth has arsenic in it.
ya that's true and what I was aiming for @ the end.
It's still likely, though. Mines don't tend to be super different in ore variety.
Edit: & no. The raiders are the SHP and only appear when the SHP is being dumb. & We'd be better off making watchtowers because a wall protects only a single settlement and we'll probably enter an Expansion Policy which will see more than 1 settlement established. The watchtowers will provide info on boats out to sea (both enemy and fishing boats that look troubled) & incursions from the lowlands, if any. This lets our people mobilize.
*Shrugs* Zinc is actually found with copper pretty often too and that would give us brass. It's all down to luck of the draw.
We won't know until we start mining, which is why a lot of us were keen to do so.
To be clear, it's more a question of which elements are mixed with the copper, and it's very common for various stuff to be mixed with it, which is why smelting is a thing. We're not hoping for arsenic or zinc ore, per se, so much as hoping our copper is already mixed with something good. It is probablly a matter of luck of the dice though.
I didn't know there was different types of cooper. Is there a difference between Azurite cooper and cooper that is used in Bronze? And how do you know which one we have?
Let me work it out for you(Materials and geology yay! ):
Azurite is a Carbon Carbonate ore: this is the formula
Cu3(CO3)2(OH)2
Cu is the copper and the (CO3)2(OH)2 mess is the carbonate Snarky correction: it's a carbonate + hydroxide mess. It is a naturally very very deep blue ore, and when we found the blue quarry we called it the blue quarry because of it's intense blue color.
<- Azurite
Later we found that the stone in the blue quarry was actually green and we confirmed we had Azurite instead of Lapis lazuli or some thing similar. The confrimation comes from the fact that Azurite is slightly unstable in air and spontaneously decays into green Malacite.
Azurite usually forms from interactions with Copper Sulfates(of which there are about a dozen) and Sodium Carbonate. Not likely to include Tin.
I am less familiar with the ores of copper which contain large amounts of arsenic, but it is generally accepted that copper has a common contamination of less than 1% Arsenic. Far below the Arsenic Copper alloying threshold that makes Arsenic-Bronze.
Like folks above have said while I typed this out it is possible that our Mine has arsenic and copper in it but it is less likely. Our mine probably goes
Upper layer of Azurite and Malacite
\/
Copper Sulfates & other stuff.
Boss: Alright, we've just installed that new software today. It should speed up our work.
Co-worker: I'm not sure how to use it, though. Is there a tutorial or something?
Me: Hey, this is kinda similar to what we had in my last job.
Boss: Great! That means that you can handle this for us, right?
Me: Um-
Co-worker: Oh, thanks! We need at least two videos to show our clients by the end of the week. I'll send you the script now.
Me: But-
Co-worker: By the way, you can handle the voice-overs, right? Make sure to send it to me when you're done. Oh, and the first video needs to be about 20 minutes long. You can handle that, right?
Boss: Alright, we've just installed that new software today. It should speed up our work.
Co-worker: I'm not sure how to use it, though. Is there a tutorial or something?
Me: Hey, this is kinda similar to what we had in my last job.
Boss: Great! That means that you can handle this for us, right?
Me: Um-
Co-worker: Oh, thanks! We need at least two videos to show our clients by the end of the week. I'll send you the script now.
Me: But-
Co-worker: By the way, you can handle the voice-overs, right? Make sure to send it to me when you're done. Oh, and the first video needs to be about 20 minutes long. You can handle that, right?
It seems possible, if not something the governors would do lightly. They'd probably want to have a specific purpose or objective behind it.
So probably not a random Salt Gift, but if set to Trade with say, tech gain as an objective they might Salt Gift on their own to buy a technnology that another faction is explicitly keeping a secret. Or a Salt Gift to buy off Nomad raiders.
Or maybe if we hit the Diplomacy cap and well..."hey, we need to make more room for salt the stores are full".
If you don't choose, it will be distributed evenly, but you can specify neighbours to go to if you want.
Hmm, presumably distributing it evenly produces the least ill will and the most chance to gain something good, but lower chances of getting something specific.
And if we're gifting to a distant faction, we probably want to gift everyone along the route too.
So it'd generate Fun effects if it stays there long enough. I wonder what...
Well, when you're using stone tools and don't have access to the more sophisticated engineering of the Romans, and have never done it before, its really takes a while. Plus its not just an aqueduct.
Really, the inflow of water is challenging mainly because it takes a a specific trick to get it to flow uphill...the real problem is dealing with the outflow, now that we have a national policy of "don't put your waste in the river".
Huh. Is 'kick and then restore in the same turn' equal to 'keep'?
Also, I do not want to spend Stability after getting at 3 too much, at least until we learn what does this green mean.
I do not really understand why do you think 'collapse a polity' and 'people are really damn happy with their country' are comparable.
And yes, I've seen the link. We are not stagnant, and while we do have our fair share of societal problems, high Stability can only be a boon in dealing with them.
- Ah, so the construction itself isn't a big problem for us. It's the fact that we're testing out a new design to bring water through our settlements. All our provinces are interested in seeing if this is something they can install in their own settlements, which is why they're so happy to help.
- Also, it seems that our obsessive communism is once again an advantage here. Since our people don't actually own their own land, there's no protests from land-owners whenever we need to demolish some buildings. This means that any old buildings can be torn down and replaced with better versions as time goes by and the city expands, which is good for our long term growth.
It's very good for reducing(not eliminating alas) the issues of neighborhood based class stratification that naturally occurs as the wealthy and influential families take control of their areas and evict the undesirables over time.
I wonder, if we didn't have communal property, would something like this have potentially cost Stability as property needs to be repossessed? Or just extra costs to buy them off?
Meanwhile future historians weep because we've systematically destroyed the stuff they're looking for about daily lives. Instead of building on top of the old city as the dirt piles up. Hell, we don't even have garbage dumps, we burn it all!
- From what I can tell, completing the Gardens gives us a basic aqueduct and proto-sewer system, both of which will definitely come in handy for any of our settlements. I wonder if we get a new "Build Aqueduct" option once this completes?
- I'm actually quite pleased that some of them decided to stay with us even when they were given the option to go home. Of course, considering their age, they might have decided that going on a long journey would have been too stressful
- Their farms are protected by a small wall meant to stop chariots from getting through. It's an interesting idea, one that we should probably try with our border provinces at some point
Speaking of which, we could probably standardize having city walls and towers if we leave Policy on Defense for 4 turns. If we could muster that kind of motivation anyway.
- So the Xohyssiri are kinda like the Venice of this era - a major trading hub where you can find stuff from all over the world (or at least the parts of the world that happen to be nearby). Pity about those slums, though. That's bound to make them more vulnerable to fire and disease (which also helps to explain why they've done some research on medicine).
- The Xohyssiri's local specialty seems to be ceramics, of all things. They're more advanced then us in that field. Is it because they use different materials, or are our ovens just not up to par?
As far as I can tell, we've invested into Art only when strictly necessary. This naturally leads to our ceramics being behind. We promote practical pieces and volume of production. Disposable ceramic chamber pots, bricks, furnaces, etc.
Whereas the Xohyssiri have the following castes demanding art and luxuries:
-Priests
-Cavalry-Nobles
-Warrior-Farmers
Which incentivizes them to make more.
Also clay is more available in the lowlands than in our parts. Simple geography makes it easier to develop.
*Shrugs* Zinc is actually found with copper pretty often too and that would give us brass. It's all down to luck of the draw.
We won't know until we start mining, which is why a lot of us were keen to do so.
To be clear, it's more a question of which elements are mixed with the copper, and it's very common for various stuff to be mixed with it, which is why smelting is a thing. We're not hoping for arsenic or zinc ore, per se, so much as hoping our copper is already mixed with something good. It is probablly a matter of luck of the dice though.
Brass would be cool I guess, though tbh it's not the most useful of metals other than for casting, which I guess would let us make tubes, statues, or, coolest yet, bells. acc. to veekie we don't even need zinc we can just use lead and pray our people don't use it in cooking utensils.
@veekieSpaghetti isn't any good w/o sauce. (aka I don't want sauce it's just that that was def spaghetti and u should chill it)
Also, "wonders" needn't == megaproject.
The Garden seems more like it will give us sewers than aqueducts, tbh. Or at least as likely.
Giving the Salt to more than one group is likely to return a maximum in stats, (leaning toward diplo + prestige) but not "something good" in the sense of tech/mysticism.
To be fair, it's mostly my own fault. I'm that over achieving idiot who agrees to take on a dozen projects and finds himself desperately juggling them all at the same time. Luckily, most of them are fairly straightforwards.
<- Azurite
