- Pronouns
- He/Him
If he already stole the rift and wants to find and kill the only other person with runes he might
I don't think that's what's happening here though
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
I don't think that's what's happening here though
Would prefer to hold off for a bit, we can clear up to 17k rn and then if we still might see combat we could buy up to 17001 so we qualify for another unstag. If we get the 18k unstag I would be fine dumping all the TH XP
boo600
Ego sum egredietur tempestas.
- Location
- Texas
- Pronouns
- He/Him/Hungry
Fuck. Yes.
Yesyesyes.
Damn, Noburi's social stats and Toad Sage Advice pulled their weight!
KAMIDAMN IT ORO!
Uuuugh. Uncles. You try and include them in your social life, but they always end up making everyone hate you/costing you potential allies.
Hmph. So, he maxes out at 3 Noburi, two of which pop in a hit and who can't use the whole Drain/sense jutsu tree he's got. Shame, and not so great for FOOM. On the other hand, between Jutsu, Technique hacking, and Mednin, three could make a huge deal of difference - and since he can shrug off the Consequences and just drink his own chakra…
Hey, can't the shadow clones themselves cast the SC Jutsu? In here, it's no, right? He can't just give them more and more water to drink and churn out more clones, right?
So if we build hype, we get more xp?
…do you have a wishlist?
Hmm.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest (STORY ONLY)
This is the Story Only thread for the "Marked for Death, A Rational Naruto Quest" story. Unless...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
Pain is currently dead.
Oro is an S-ranker in multiple ways, and his stealth is unlikely to be penetrated by any non-S ninja.
He took down Hidan in moments when they fought at the battle of the Kage, and Hidan is likely hunting us anyways. Also, Oro considers him an imbecile. At best (from Oro's view), he contributes an immortal and some cultists.
Kakuzu is dead.
Deidara lacks subtlety to the point that i'd expect them to keep him and his explosives far away from the rift site and the fortress they're building. Also, Oro described him as having combat skills that are 'mediocre for a Jonin;' he's mainly dangerous for his flight and nukes.
Sasori is a sealsmaster, and Oro must expect him to have turned that fortress into a death trap. He doesn't know about runes, though, and Oro may have come up with some frightening spacetime explosives or canon-tier immortality.
Then there's Itachi, Kisame, and Konan. All three, he described as being able to overpower a Jinchūriki in single combat. Kisame, he describes as basically Jiraiya, but with an Artifact of the Old Gods as a weapon and Oro-plus sensory abilities (and the club is counted as a second member of Akatsuki). Konan has absurd sensory abilities and the most absurd seal-related powers Oro's ever seen, including the ability to detonate them remotely and Mass-produce them.
And he describes Utachi as the most dangerous of them all, because of the fucking Sharingan. And he is attentive to the secrets of the world, with combat precognition and Essence sight.
Konan is likely to stay in Rain. But Sasori as a sealsmaster and puppeteer in a fortress he's a part of setting up is absurdly dangerous, and I don't think Oro would consider himself likely to win against Kisame. And Itachi, if he's not Hazō-hunting… well, Oro considers his victory a done deal.
Half of Akatsuki, he'd shrug off. The other half, even one on one, he'd be cautious and worried. Even with runes (if Konan really is limited to just paper), facing multiple? No. Not unless they all dumbly stride into the chakra-void, and Oro can just tear apart the rift. And no one's that lucky when S-rankers are involved.
But.
He may not be alone. If he has minions, or a stealth rune and a chakra capacitor of his own to release shadow clones from? He may think he could pull of some bullshit, if he gets lucky, and he's immortal if not.
That being said… no. Not if I've read him correct. This is an attempt to get Hazō moving, in research and positioning.
Note that chakra doesn't rebalance when SC is cast. So he can cast SC 3 times to make 6 clones it's less efficient -- vastly so unfortunately. But he just can't make more than 2 clones per cast, that's fine. He's only limited by chakra and Resolve. One he buys SC 30 he can start FOOMing (assuming Leaf is intact and we can buy chakra)
I maintain that going full FOOM is a pretty bad build choice for Noburi: he has a strong build on the cusp of greatness, let's stay the course and stick the landing. By the time FOOM pays off, uplift will have already won or lost the setting.
Trying to rush Resolve in as a third 60s stat would cripple his pyramid going forward.
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Nah I'd have him leave it at 49 and SC at 40. Going to 69 is a mistake (we were naive).
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It has paid for itself so many times tho, not even talking xp
But yes Nobs can get by with SC 40 and normal resolve
It wasn't a mistake (funny number). Also it saved Hazo's life a bunch of times.
I was more thinking of Kei, Hazou needed that Resolve 60 for the extra Mild, Kei would have been fine at 49 or 59.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think it is still worth it for Kei given how early she got it. This late in the game it doesn't make as much sense for Nobs.
Also a shame we never got to acknowledge that he was keeping up with kei and Hazou even without it up till now
- Location
- Washington, USA
If Akai has CR 40 and two purchases of ACE, I think that would mean a capacity of 441? Not confident in my understanding of the system's math, but this seems important enough to try anyway. Clone starts out with 1 chakra, Noburi Prime transfuses 440 from the barrel, clone spends 425 on creating eleven additional clones, leaving 16.
If Noburi Prime isn't included in the redistribution, he's still got 2 personal chakra left, same as he did before creating the first clone, so sixteen chakra gets distributed among twelve clones, enough for them all to have at least one left.
if Prime IS included, then it's eighteen chakra distributed among thirteen people, which is actually even better.
We know shadow clones can make more shadow clones because Naruto's done it on-screen.
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Rihaku
The Internet
Without the backing of Leaf, do we have any way to meaningfully resist Orochimaru if he defects against Hazou & Co? Even if we win the joint assault, Orochimaru may decide to monopolize the rift or that Hazou's existence is EV-negative for a prospective immortal like himself (see Oro's earlier speech re: Kakuzu's 'immortality' on his risk-assessment paradigm).
Going in with shadow clones can idiot-proof the initial meet to large degree, but cooperating with him will almost certainly necessitate physical contact at which point he has countless vectors of coercion or enslavement (S-rank jounin aura, taking hostages, bioseals etc). Are we hoping that his sentiment for Jiraiya and Hazou's presumptive status as Jiraiya's heir will suffice to hold back the sociopathy?
All of which is to say, if an assault on the rift must happen, we would very much prefer to have Leaf on-side not just for firepower against Akatsuki but because Tsunade's emotional hold on Orochimaru is much more reliable than any other means of constraining him.
Going in with shadow clones can idiot-proof the initial meet to large degree, but cooperating with him will almost certainly necessitate physical contact at which point he has countless vectors of coercion or enslavement (S-rank jounin aura, taking hostages, bioseals etc). Are we hoping that his sentiment for Jiraiya and Hazou's presumptive status as Jiraiya's heir will suffice to hold back the sociopathy?
All of which is to say, if an assault on the rift must happen, we would very much prefer to have Leaf on-side not just for firepower against Akatsuki but because Tsunade's emotional hold on Orochimaru is much more reliable than any other means of constraining him.
- Location
- France
[X] Interlude: Orochimaru Goes Missing (Again)
I want our research rolls before I decide what to actually do. Do we actually have good stuff to bring to the table ?
Probably not, the chapter wasn't *that* long... I guess the lightning storm is good for attacking fixed positions ? And the rift-opener will be useful when we run ?
I really hope we have either Ninja Radar or ranged Explosiver.
I want our research rolls before I decide what to actually do. Do we actually have good stuff to bring to the table ?
Probably not, the chapter wasn't *that* long... I guess the lightning storm is good for attacking fixed positions ? And the rift-opener will be useful when we run ?
I really hope we have either Ninja Radar or ranged Explosiver.
Well he was keeping up with Hazou because Hazou sank 5k XP into research stats, and Kei because she bought Shadow element. But we still can for sure. I think he deadass hits harder than Kei now.
I think these are all good points, and I agree and want to take Leaf with us partially as insurance against Orochimaru.
But I think he won't hurry to take hostages against us either. We haven't ever acted against his interests, and he's greatly benefitted from cooperating with us. We aren't remotely a threat to him (or so we hope he thinks), and he respects ambition in junior ninja.
As evidence, see him not crushing Kabuto, and speaking approvingly whenever we demonstrated a willingness to seek power. I don't think he'll hurry to sour relations when the prospect of collaboration is still on the table.
Now this is nothing remotely like a guarantee or even particularly strong evidence. If it's convenient he'll install a suicide switch on Hazou, I'm sure. On the other hand, if we act carefully around him I think we can keep things from devolving.
Strong agree.
His biggest incentive to off Hazou/uplift is to gain total control over runesmithing. we could try to set up a 7th path deadman switch to release the information, but making such a system impractical for Orochimaru to subvert is difficult and doing so without a dangerously high false-positive risk is even harder.
If he deals fairy, I suspect he'll either fuck off with the rift on his own, or invite us to join him(which is extremely dangerous to our lives and agency).
I'd *like* to arrange for Oro to get killed by Akatsuki, and let us sweep up the leftovers, but I'm not seeing a way to do it that isn't insanely risky. Best I've got is to let him try to solo them and hope he fails, then make our attempt afterwards, but that's..... pretty risky.
boo600
Ego sum egredietur tempestas.
- Location
- Texas
- Pronouns
- He/Him/Hungry
…wait, sudden realization.
Did we share our sudden discovery on the Great Seal and how it interacts with spacetime effects on the Seventh Path?
Because on the one hand, that's genuinely ancient lore we discovered. We found a mistake the Sage made, and comprehended the Great Seal in a way Oro may have not done.
But it's also a point of weakness - there's no way he doesn't know about the Skytowers; it's the talk of the Path! It gives him a way to end our summoning contacts instantly - or a huge source of blackmail - and while he may not fin us threatening or particularly useful at the moment, that could change in the future.
So.
Edit: No one's posted yet, but I had one more thought. Conjura was using her teleportation abilities freely on the Path - and those are just as dangerous as seals to the Great Seal. If any clans use anything similar?
So on the bright side, it would have for sure happened anyways before we sped it up. On the downside, the first whipping boy is the victim of a genocide we'd rather not make an enemy of the greater Seventh Path.
Did we share our sudden discovery on the Great Seal and how it interacts with spacetime effects on the Seventh Path?
Because on the one hand, that's genuinely ancient lore we discovered. We found a mistake the Sage made, and comprehended the Great Seal in a way Oro may have not done.
But it's also a point of weakness - there's no way he doesn't know about the Skytowers; it's the talk of the Path! It gives him a way to end our summoning contacts instantly - or a huge source of blackmail - and while he may not fin us threatening or particularly useful at the moment, that could change in the future.
So.
Edit: No one's posted yet, but I had one more thought. Conjura was using her teleportation abilities freely on the Path - and those are just as dangerous as seals to the Great Seal. If any clans use anything similar?
So on the bright side, it would have for sure happened anyways before we sped it up. On the downside, the first whipping boy is the victim of a genocide we'd rather not make an enemy of the greater Seventh Path.
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[ ] (If RE2.0 research is complete) Buy BoC30, and sink all remaining xp into CR. Tell Oro we're heading to location 3, and please let the toad go. Instead, head to the rift site, blow the shit out of everything, and summon Cannai, taking a severe if needed.
Tragically, a conventional fortification is a good counter to our explosive assassination plan, so I'm not actually voting for this. (And because voting an action plan before we see research results would be quite bad form)
Edit, or is it? If our explosives hit hard enough to one-shot a durability ??? fortification, does everyone inside it have to save save against the full value of the explosives?
If so, the fort does us a favour by trapping the enemy in a relatively small set of zones, and blocking line of sight from most of them. We just set up to blow the whole castle up all at once, and sic Cannai on anything that crawls out.
Tragically, a conventional fortification is a good counter to our explosive assassination plan, so I'm not actually voting for this. (And because voting an action plan before we see research results would be quite bad form)
Edit, or is it? If our explosives hit hard enough to one-shot a durability ??? fortification, does everyone inside it have to save save against the full value of the explosives?
If so, the fort does us a favour by trapping the enemy in a relatively small set of zones, and blocking line of sight from most of them. We just set up to blow the whole castle up all at once, and sic Cannai on anything that crawls out.
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redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Yeah I'm gonna be real with ya'll, I don't think Oro is planning on stealing the gate for himself. Not any more than we are, anyways, as in he might run off with it to keep it out of Akatsuki's hands if he doesn't think Leaf can protect it properly, but he'd eventually return with a few revived S-rankers.
I just don't see any reason for him to want to run off with it when he could have full access as leaf's top scientist and hero who saved the world. All this planning for Oro turning traitor is based on... what? Bad vibes? What's the actual line of reasoning here? That he's going to brainwash a bunch of S-rankers before bringing them back and personally take over the world? Sounds like too much of a hassle, honestly, for the man who wants to do science more than bothering with annoying underlings. That he's going to fuck off and be a hermit in the woods, use the portal to try and overcome death and live forever? Well he did the hermit thing already and chose to come back to leaf, as long as we don't try to block his access to the portal I don't see how that equation changes.
Am I missing something or are ya'll just being really cautious?
I just don't see any reason for him to want to run off with it when he could have full access as leaf's top scientist and hero who saved the world. All this planning for Oro turning traitor is based on... what? Bad vibes? What's the actual line of reasoning here? That he's going to brainwash a bunch of S-rankers before bringing them back and personally take over the world? Sounds like too much of a hassle, honestly, for the man who wants to do science more than bothering with annoying underlings. That he's going to fuck off and be a hermit in the woods, use the portal to try and overcome death and live forever? Well he did the hermit thing already and chose to come back to leaf, as long as we don't try to block his access to the portal I don't see how that equation changes.
Am I missing something or are ya'll just being really cautious?
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Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Could we set up a dead man's switch that leaks runecrafting to Leaf/the EN, to remove the incentive for Orochimaru to off us? Rough idea:
- Pick a random cave in the wilderness. Collapse its entrance, so that you can only enter/find it via tunneling jutsu.
- In it, put a few long-lasting runes, 100-300 substrate, the jutsu scrolls for BoC and Earthshaping, and whatever notes on runes we have that could serve as study materials/primers on Earth Infusion.
- Pay a civilian to, in a month's time, send a letter with the cave's locaton to Shikamaru and/or Mist's AMI.
- Alternatively, have Cannai swear to spread the cave's location across the Seventh Path if we die.
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Spector29
It Only Gets Worse From Here
My understanding of the "Oro is going to steal the Rift" position is that people are worried that Leaf will direct us/him/ANBU to revive S-Rankers like previous Hokage who absolutely would try to rein in his autonomy, which Orochimaru could "easily" prevent at this stage by simply stealing the Rift, fucking off to Literally Anywhere Else, and only reviving the people he feels like he needs to.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Unless it's a jutsu that you invented, jutsu scrolls can only be made if the jutsu is at level 20. So we could do this for Earthshaping, but not BoC
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Jiraiya gave him the pardon in the first place, Hiruzen wouldn't countermand that at this point, old man just wants to retire and maybe help leaf if a world-ending scrap comes up, but I'm sure he's done leading. The Hyuuga guy whose name I forget is never getting close to leadership again, and Oro is fairly comfortable pushing around Asuma at this point, who would also likely be glad to step back and let somebody else lead.
Given the memory reducing effect of the afterlife, I doubt you could go back much further to recover the 4th Hokage, Minato Namikazi. But even if you did, both he and Jiraiya would be happy to back Naruto's current reign. Going back even further to the first or second Hokages seems very, very unlikely... but yeah I guess those are a couple of badasses who might be willing to put Orochimaru in his place. Everybody else at this point would just back Naruto as the rightful leader.
So the real question is if Naruto would rein in Orochimaru if he had more power in his corner, and honestly, I'm not sure he would. At this point I'm sure the two of them have learned to work with/around each other, and if Orochimaru saves the day and brings back Jiraiya and possibly even his dad, I don't think Naruto would turn around and restrict Oro for that. Hell, he might even be MORE lenient about Orochimaru's various (technically legal) atrocities, out of sheer gratitude even if he personally objects to the practice. He's been putting up with them this long, right?
I guess what's more important than what Naruto would actually do is what Orochimaru believes Naruto will do.