Remove ads

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Voting is open
Reader mode
Kyreneryk said:
Pinging also @eaglejarl @Velorien
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
(this is already answered I think, but generally if you're doing this, don't rely on the reply-ping to get me -- I often sweep up questions by searching for my username in the thread, so you should also @ me)

Kyreneryk said:
What happens to the turn orders?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think this would be ruled ad-hoc by the QM running the combat. Speaking for myself...
  1. If Kei and Hazou were coordinating in triggering their MARS-chains, I wouldn't put any time gap between the runes popping, since they wouldn't be in "turn order" when triggering and could intentionally pull their MARS at the same time (modulo the random delay of the MARS, yada yada). The target would just need to dodge both arrays back to back.
  2. If Kei and Hazou weren't coordinating, e.g. because they were triggering the MARS chains while a combat happened to them, then there would be a noticeable time-gap between the triggers. In this case, I would say that the target was surprised for Kei's, but then entered initiative and would get their turns before Hazou's.

faflec said:
If we set up the rune such that we are aiming at a bottlenecked zone (by which I mean, several or all adjacent zones are considered to be "invalid" by the line-of-effect rule), can the rune detonate those invalid zones?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think this is too imprecise for me to take a stab at answering -- can you give a specific example that would illustrate what you mean?
 
@eaglejarl, @Velorien, @Paperclipped: In Hazou and Kagome's assessment, how difficult would it be to distinguish one rift scar from another? For example, if the bladehorrors rift scar and the afterlife rift scar were put in front of them side-by-side, would they be able to determine which is which, given that they'd examined the afterlife rift scar in great detail and know its properties? In other words: do rift scars have any unique "signature properties", as far as their tools can tell?

The purpose of this question is to determine whether Hazou thinks that we can steal the O'Uzu rift and replace it with a different rift without Sasori immediately noticing the switch. (Optionally, with us creating a rune specifically for creating a random rift scar that looks like the O'Uzu rift scar. If such a thing as a "rift signature" exists but is a "shallow" property that doesn't actually tell you where the rift leads, this might be tractable.)
 
Last edited:
Paperclipped said:
I think this is too imprecise for me to take a stab at answering -- can you give a specific example that would illustrate what you mean?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I can try and stab at it;

Imagine a square grid of zones numbered 1-9 from top-left to bottom right. Zones 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, and 9 are invalid because of something blocking line of effect, leaving only the center zones as 'valid' targets (2, 5, and 8). If we aim for the center (zone 5), can the rune potentially drift to hit zones 4 and 6, or can they only hit 'valid' targets like zones 2 and 8?
 
Spector29 said:
Imagine a square grid of zones numbered 1-9 from top-left to bottom right. Zones 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, and 9 are invalid because of something blocking line of effect, leaving only the center zones as 'valid' targets (2, 5, and 8). If we aim for the center (zone 5), can the rune potentially drift to hit zones 4 and 6, or can they only hit 'valid' targets like zones 2 and 8?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean an actual scenario. What is the terrain? What's blocking the line of effect?
 
RandomOTP said:
Made a couple, though I think we should use Earth Bullet before we tackle Living Roots. We'll never use Earth Bullet, so there's no problem if we flub the rolls without any veterancy. Whereas we actually use Living Roots (rarely, but we do), so it's important we don't flub the rolls too badly.


Swift Living Roots

TypeManeuverStrain
ElementEarth
Effect1 - Aspect Bonus10, 30, 60, etc
DurationMinute60
Durabilityn/a
Range-2 (caster)
Casting SpeedSupplemental+75
AOE1 target (caster)
AdvantageSkill Bonus: Alertness+30
AdvantageAffects Initiative+30
DisadvantageSpecial:
Jutsu performance significantly degraded if caster moves		-20
Total Strain175+(10, 30, 60...)
Casting Cost35+(2, 6, 12…)

Living Roots, but Supplemental


Reactive Living Roots

TypeManeuverStrain
ElementEarth
Effect1 - Aspect Bonus10, 30, 60, etc
DurationMinute60
Durabilityn/a
Range-2 (caster)
Casting SpeedStandard0
AOE1 target (caster)
AdvantageReflexive+20
AdvantageSkill Bonus: Alertness+30
AdvantageAffects Initiative+30
DisadvantageSpecial:
Jutsu performance significantly degraded if caster moves		-20
Total Strain120+(10, 30, 60...)
Casting Cost24+(2, 6, 12…)

Living Roots, but a reflexive standard.


Rapid Living Roots

TypeManeuverStrain
ElementEarth
Effect1 - Aspect Bonus10, 30, 60, etc
DurationMinute60
Durabilityn/a
Range-2 (caster)
Casting SpeedSupplemental+75
AOE1 target (caster)
AdvantageReflexive+30
AdvantageSkill Bonus: Alertness+30
AdvantageAffects Initiative+30
DisadvantageSpecial:
Jutsu performance significantly degraded if caster moves		-20
Total Strain205+(10, 30, 60...)
Casting Cost41+(2, 6, 12…)

Living Roots, but Reflexive Supplemental



Strong Living Roots

TypeManeuverStrain
ElementEarth
Effect1 - Aspect Bonus10, 30, 60, etc
DurationMinute60
Durabilityn/a
Range-2 (caster)
Casting Speedstandard
AOE1 target (caster)
AdvantageSkill Bonus: Alertness+30
AdvantageAffects Initiative+30
DisadvantageSpecial:
Jutsu performance mildly degraded if caster moves		-10
Total Strain110+(10, 30, 60...)
Casting Cost22+(2, 6, 12…)

Living Roots, but a reduced penalty when moving. Default is 3*AB, and the penalty is merely 2*AB, rather than the OG 1*AB


Enduring Living Roots

TypeManeuverStrain
ElementEarth
Effect1 - Aspect Bonus10, 30, 60, etc
DurationMinute60
Durabilityn/a
Range-2 (caster)
Casting Speedstandard
AOE1 target (caster)
AdvantageSkill Bonus: Alertness+30
AdvantageAffects Initiative+30
Total Strain120+(10, 30, 60...)
Casting Cost24+(2, 6, 12…)

Living Roots, but without the movement-based penalty. Boost remains 3*AB, regardless of movement.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Thank you! These are great, and we end up with a technique that's worth running consistently in dangerous terrain in a way that it isn't currently (especially when invested in for that easy half cost (you know, after TH and Athletics and...))

I agree on doing an unused jutsu first! I wrote an effort post on suggested priorities/strategy to prep for ES TH (which I should attach to my signature, honestly). "Random technique we don't care about screwing up (earth bullet), technique with some similar aspects to ES that we'd get benefit from improving (MEW), technique we don't have leveled but is already good and we'd definitely level if it got better, living roots, (maybe something else), Earthshaping." Was the approximate order I think.

I also pitched raising Chakra to 400, since that both helps for Cannai summoning, and being able to put an extra shift of success to let's us research faster/better, and likely but not assuredly improves Minato Sealing, and Chakra is currently the bottleneck for research, and... Know what sucks? Chakra to 38, plus ace, is a Chakra value of 399. And we really need that AB increase.



[X] Training Plan Hazou: Using Notes, prepping for the Big Dog and Yellow Flash
Sealing 53 -> 54 (40 notes XP and 68 XP)
Chakra 30 -> 31 (60XP)

[X] Training Plan Hazou: Local Max
 
[X] Sealing SOP: Runemaster 2.0
  • Always do a difficulty check (spend 1 FP) to test difficulty prior to making an infusion attempt.
  • Always use DoB tracks if available, offtrack easier projects if they are not.
  • Rerolls to Hazou's intuition, default is -9 or worse. Unless he's working on something he's confident won't fail even then.
    • If >3 FP, reroll for extra progress on Medium or higher Runes and Jounin or higher seals.
  • Buy to:
    • 1 FP if single-tracking.
    • 2 FP if dual-tracking.
    • 3 FP if Hazou thinks a project will likely fail on a -6 or worse.
    • 4 FP if prepping a project intended to be rerolled on a -3 or worse.
    • If planning to difficulty check during the cycle, buy enough FP that there will be the above left during rolls for the cycle.
  • Abort projects if Hazou thinks they will likely fail on a -3 or worse after using full prep and DoB, not counting invokes.
  • After the first roll, adjust prep days, rerolls, invokes, and DoB usage based on Hazou's intuition.
  • Seals:
    • Trivial/Genin: Neither prep nor DoB.
    • Chuunin: One of 5 days prep or DoB.
      • With notes or significant veterancy: 3 days prep, no DoB, or no prep w/ DoB
    • Jounin: Both full prep and DoB, reroll -3 or worse.
      • With notes or significant veterancy: reroll as normal.
    • Jiraiya: Don't research.
      • With notes or significant veterancy: Both full prep and DoB, Invoke, reroll -3 or worse.
  • Runes:
    • Trivial: Neither prep nor DoB.
    • Easy: One of full prep or DoB
    • Medium: Both full prep and DoB.
    • Hard: Don't research, attempt to find easier version.
      • With veterancy: Both full prep and DoB, reroll -3 or worse, Invoke.
 
Last edited:
Sir Stompy said:
Made the following edits to the SOP in light of recent rules changes, I'd appreciate your votes for it. Needs at least 50% of the votes the winning plan gets to go into effect.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
[X] Sealing SOP: Runemaster 2.0


We'll burn through FP quick, but a DoB, prep, and invokes at least get us some pretty big numbers. And DOB plus an invoke plus a single prep day (that counts as two) seems effective. Does it make sense to clarify no Extra prep days on roles, if new checks start with a prep check?
 
Last edited:
eaglejarl said:
PSA: Mechanics change related to seal/rune research



Doylist: We're having trouble managing the deluge of prep days. It's heavily impacting the spoons of all the QMs except for the bizarrely indefatigable @Paperclipped, who I am absolutely positive is in fact a normal human being and not a benevolent superintelligence or dragon.

In order to save our sanity and investment in the quest, we're going to make a change to the mechanics. We're doing our best to make this fair to the players and even provide a slight advantage in exchange for the slight nerf. The change is as follows:

Doing a difficulty check is no longer a regular prep day. Instead, it represents a significant effort at getting everything ready and all basic details handled in advance – the equivalent of laying all the ingredients measured and carefully arranged on the counter before starting to bake. This requires spending 1 FP. If you immediately continue into the research then that FP becomes an Invoke and you get the benefit of 2 prep days for the one difficulty-check day, meaning +2 on the Sealing/Primordial Sealing and Calligraphy/Earthshaping rolls. (This extra day does count against the total prep days you can do, so you aren't getting a larger overall bonus, you are simply moving through the research faster.)

Obviously, you are free to start the research without doing a difficulty check but you don't get the difficulty check result or bonus prep day without using the above mechanic.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Question: Does the invoke apply to both the calligraphy and research roll?
 
CitizenTen said:
Wait. Isn't moving the rift very slow due to the runes? How are we gonna run away?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We don't know the details of how Oro's rift-moving runes work. He has one to unanchor the rift, one to repel it, and one to attract it. So at very least, if using his approach, we'd have to be at the rift site for long enough to infuse the rift-unanchoring-rune and the rift-repelling rune.
My best guess is that they probably have a range single-digit kilometers, given that that's typical for rune effects, so presumably he plans to puts a rift-attracting rune (2*range) away from the rift, put a rift-repelling rune next to the rift, and have the repeller send it into range of the attractor.
We just don't know how fast the rift will actually move under these conditions, but at any rate it's not limited by runic drag speed unless I've totally misunderstood the situation, since the runes won't need to move with it.
(But we'd better make sure they don't have long durations, since leaving them there after the job is done would be very bad!)
 
I noticed that most of the research results of chapter 681 are still TBD while newer chapter research results have been worked on and in certain cases fully finalized. Is there a reason why this is happening in reverse order? Or did something get skipped by mistake?
 
Noumero said:
We don't need a rift to work with, specifically, we need a rift scar, no? Can't we make a Microrift Rune variant that opens a really unstable rift that closes back within milliseconds, such that there's basically no time for anything dangerous to slip out?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Sir Stompy said:
Is that what Hazou prepped?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A "rift scar" is just a rift that has decayed down to a very small size. See, the ongoing airflow into/out of the afterlife rift.
eaglejarl said:
The tiny but existent negative air pressure from the first rift
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
(which admittedly Hazou doesn't know about in-character, but he does know the above fact about rift scars)

So, Hazou prepped a rune that would make a very small rift (for a rune).

Sir Stompy said:
Why is Hazou so worried about this? Rifts are a common side effect of sealing failures and sealmasters know how to counter them. The Rift will be tiny and we can have a clone on standby to block it with a MEW the instant it opens (per SOP for rifts) We'll be literal miles away in our physical bodies if we need to run.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Rifts are not a common side effect of sealing failures so much as a notably distinct class of effect in a domain that otherwise lacks structure, and most sealmasters get killed if they encounter one. That said, most sealmasters open rifts much larger than a hypothetical Microrift, and don't have shadow clones or Kagome-safety-training, so Hazou thinks he's got pretty good odds on the Microrift rune; at least 95% of survival, probably higher. He's willing to roll the dice if you vote it in (though would definitely need to keep it secret from Kagome), but he doesn't think it'll ever be safe to poke random holes in reality.

Sir Stompy said:
Jiriaya was almost completely completely unbothered by the notion.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Check the context -- Jiraiya was saying that Kagome's safety measures would not actually make Jiraiya more safe, since if the result of a sealing failure is handle-able by human means, Jiraiya can handle it.

Sir Stompy said:
Rifts can't realistically often kill everyone for miles around because then Hidden Villages could not exist with sealmasters.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Consider: selection bias. Also, you know that at least Cloud and Rock have sealing facilities away from the main village.

Noumero said:
For example, if the bladehorrors rift scar and the afterlife rift scar were put in front of them side-by-side, would they be able to determine which is which, given that they'd examined the afterlife rift scar in great detail and know its properties?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes, they would.

Noumero said:
@eaglejarl, @Velorien, @Paperclipped: In Hazou and Kagome's assessment, how difficult would it be to distinguish one rift scar from another? [...] In other words: do rift scars have any unique "signature properties", as far as their tools can tell?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They do, but with Hazou and Kagome's tools, it's not obvious unless they're specifically looking for it.

Noumero said:
The purpose of this question is to determine whether Hazou thinks that we can steal the O'Uzu rift and replace it with a different rift without Sasori immediately noticing the switch.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Unless Sasori's tools for interacting with rifts are better than Hazou and Kagome's, it would not be noticed immediately, but it would be noticed eventually (though of course, Hazou can't predict whether Sasori would infer "the rift has been switched" instead of any number of other possible inferences such as "the rift has decayed into a new state").
 
Velorien said:
A "rift scar" is just a rift that has decayed down to a very small size. See, the ongoing airflow into/out of the afterlife rift.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Um. What? Did we know this? Has this been mentioned before? (Like, we knew there was airflow across one of the scars, but I assumed that just meant the scar was slightly leaky across its whole surface, not that there was a tiny area where the rift was still fully open.) How does this interact with being able to move objects across the rift scar - shouldn't the tiny open rift carve a hole through anything that interacts with it?

Ok, in light of this, my opinions about the safety of Microrift have changed quite a bit. I still think it's a good idea, but I think order of operations should be something like:
  • Use Microrift to open one rift. Use an Earth Clone, not a Shadow Clone, to avoid contamination that might spread through the shadow clone link. Set up appropriate defenses first. (Actually, maybe research landmine REs first, then have an array of those pointed at the site before we open the rift.)
  • If the rift appears the slightest bit dangerous, wait for it to close (to scar size, since that's apparently what that means) before approaching.
  • Research a rune that permanently closes any rifts in a wide area.
    • Do this before any other runes and before using Microrift again.
  • Research a landmine version of the rift-closing rune.
  • For future research, have the landmine rift-closing rune set up and ready in case the rift goes somewhere bad.
I'm actually quite excited about the possibility of opening rifts to random locations - it sounds like a very fast way to sample what's around in our general area of the cosmos. Granted, it might also get us eaten by extradimensional horrors, but we accepted that risk when we first picked up a brush to learn sealing.


It occurs to me that we haven't actually tried what seems to me to be the simple option for testing rifts, which would also be very useful indeed by itself, which is opening a rift to another location on the Human Path. It might just not be possible - maybe rifts have to connect to a different path - but if it was possible, it would be very useful indeed for a number of different purposes (research, travel, moving runes, etc.). Hence:

Homoitineric Rift Rune
Rune

Opens a Rift from a Path to a defined location on the same Path. Optionally, this may require the use of two copies of the rune which are linked, but ideally it should require only appropriate targeting data.

(If it's not clear, the name derives from the Latin homo (same) and iter (path, journey). I'm aware it's a somewhat ugly construction and am not attached to the name if we decide to make it!)

Edit: Apparently this was explained in the results for Null Rift and it turns out it's not possible - RC failure on my part.
 
Last edited:
Noumero said:
@eaglejarl, @Velorien, @Paperclipped: In Hazou and Kagome's assessment, how difficult would it be to distinguish one rift scar from another? For example, if the bladehorrors rift scar and the afterlife rift scar were put in front of them side-by-side, would they be able to determine which is which, given that they'd examined the afterlife rift scar in great detail and know its properties? In other words: do rift scars have any unique "signature properties", as far as their tools can tell?

The purpose of this question is to determine whether Hazou thinks that we can steal the O'Uzu rift and replace it with a different rift without Sasori immediately noticing the switch. (Optionally, with us creating a rune specifically for creating a random rift scar that looks like the O'Uzu rift scar. If such a thing as a "rift signature" exists but is a "shallow" property that doesn't actually tell you where the rift leads, this might be tractable.)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We were brainstorming ages back about pulling a switcheroo with the Bladehorror rift scar, but any rift scar would suffice. It's not clear to me that they would leap to the conclusion of "Someone has switched the rift with another one" instead of "Oh no! The rift is collapsing!", "Oh no! The rift is changing!", or "Oh no! Our notoriously difficult-to-pin-down magic system is doing something unexpected! Too many Tuesdays have gone by!!" etc. even if they do detect a difference?
 
Kyreneryk said:
Homoitineric Rift Rune
Rune

Opens a Rift from a Path to a defined location on the same Path. Optionally, this may require the use of two copies of the rune which are linked, but ideally it should require only appropriate targeting data
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Paperclipped said:
A rift is by definition a hole between two dimensions, meaning that Hazō has no idea how to create a rift from one Path to the same Path. He cannot rule out the possibility of a portal effect from one point on the Human Path to another but that would be distinct from a rift.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is shrimply not possible.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting is open
Remove ads
Back
Top