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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Oneiros said:
Since Kei and Noburi are both stagnant in combat currently does any one have opinions on where we should go to clear them of it?
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Noburi might be covered by his apprenticeship, Kei is supposed to handle hers with the Hyenas, though maybe she could go fight Capybaras instead if that's more stomachable. What I'm not sure about is how to deal with her leadership stagnancy... maybe Velorien will bless her with an unlock via her uncomfortable-to-write persuasive letters
 
Velorien said:
PONWOG Kei got the rest of the team to sanity-check Envelope B. There would be no reason not to seek all the optimisation she could get, and her girlfriends' lives were potentially at stake.
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So, can we know what locations the Hazōpilot suggested, or do we vote on them in our next Action Plan, or how does that work?

DanZapman said:
Rasengan
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17 votes to 1 vote: the 1 carries because he has Rasengan.

Shrooms said:
Embrace treason

Though uh probably not the best look once we come back lol
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I mean, we're out to research weapons to kill Akatsuki. We need all the research time we can get. I don't really see how Naruto can blame us for teaching our fellow researcher a technique for researching faster. By the way, did we even get around to asking Naruto about teaching Kagome SC? Even if he already said no, I think we should do it.

faflec said:
It was, we just haven't gotten around to the second part (get Noburi SC) yet.
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Does he have enough chakra now? If so, yeah we should teach it to him unless it takes too much time away from research.

faflec said:
So what you're saying is that we should have written secret love letters to Ritsuo.
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@Velorien, can we Declare that we did this?

Noumero said:
Not very believable. Hinata, though? Missed opportunity to assassinate a political rival and go through the Hyuuga with a Jashinist scythe. SMH.
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Should have written love letters to the Hyūga elders. Hinata would kiss us for getting rid of them. (Probably.)
 
[x] Shadow Clone for Kagome
  • Teach Kagome Shadow Clone.
  • Reasoning:
    • Kagome knows that the rest of the Gouketsu are using SC to greatly enhance their training, and that his OPSEC issues make it unlikely the Hokage would ever approve teaching him. This doubtlessly contributes to his feelings about being left behind: that in the long-term, he'd have increasingly less ability to contribute, approaching zero.
    • SC likely won't be useful for him over the course of this mission. But teaching it to him now locks him into WHOOSH in the long-term, which would hopefully improve his mindset.
    • In addition, doing it nowis likely cheapest, in terms of political capital spent.
      • If we kill the Akatsuki, Naruto won't think twice of what we've done.
      • If, however, we ask permission to teach Kagome in the wake of the Akatsuki's deaths, it'll likely be another negotiations, with Naruto bringing out cost-benefit analyses that'd inevitably conclude it shouldn't be done.
      • Throwing our post-Akatsuki weight around to override him at that juncture is likely to cost more political capital than just doing it now and informing Naruto afterwards.
  • Wait for the rest of the Gouketsu to exfiltrate.
  • Work on Capacitor and then (time permitting) Icarus in the meantime.
    • Use DoB, no prep, reroll for safety.
    • Read Sealing Notes with SCs on rest days.
 
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I wonder if we can make OPSEC Minatoseals. Like, canon had a whole suite of seals that could mess with what you could say, but mfd's worldbuilding classified that as "advanced biosealing" and had to rule that there was no way for any institutions to reliably do that. But like, what about the special sauce sealing style that lives right in your chakra system?

One of the biggest concerns that always comes up about giving Kagome nice things is that he can't keep secrets and can't learn to keep secrets. I don't mind going ahead and giving him nice things despite that, I think, but it would be a very good olive branch to Naruto on the topic when we return, and put Kagome in a much better position to receive greater secrets, if he accepted Minatoseals that prevented him from speaking about restricted topics in the same way that he relies on the rest of Team Uplift to catch him when they're in the same room.

Or, hmm, maybe just strip out the middleman and try for Minatoseal telepathy. Then, even without Kagome having a minder, there would always be someone "available" ready to send Kagome a cautionary message if the conversation reaches restricted topics. And there are also plenty of other reasons to want telepathic bonds, of course, this way wouldn't just be an imposition on Kagome for the sake of getting Naruto to trust him with nice things. He'd be able to tell instantaneously whenever any of the rest of us are in danger, just off the top of my head.
 
MarsIronPI said:
So, can we know what locations the Hazōpilot suggested, or do we vote on them in our next Action Plan, or how does that work?
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We're thinking of folding your visits to them into the trip you make to join up with Mari and the others.

faflec said:
So what you're saying is that we should have written secret love letters to Ritsuo.
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MarsIronPI said:
@Velorien, can we Declare that we did this?
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Not retroactively (you were already pushing it with the prearranged code words), but it would have been amazing if you'd thought of it at the time.
 
Why are we teaching SC to Kagome? It's going to take him years to level Resolve and SC high enough that he can multi-thread research with it. And Kagome FOOMing just costs us more chakra --something that is already in short supply.
 
If we do succeed at killing Akatsuki, we plausibly will have the political capital to get away with having taught Noburi and Kagome SC—i.e. to earn forgiveness. But if we would have the political capital to earn forgiveness, why wouldn't we also have the political capital to get permission to do the same? And wouldn't permission be cheaper? In other words, wouldn't it cost us less to teach them SC later with permission, than to teach them SC now and get forgiveness for it later? (If you disagree, please explain exactly why. AFAICT no one has done this yet.)

And if killing Akatsuki doesn't earn us enough political capital to earn forgiveness, then teaching them SC now could get us in quite a lot of trouble.

So unless we gain compelling short-term benefits from teaching Kagome and Noburi SC now (almost certainly not the case IIUC), I just don't think it's a good idea.

(If we don't think we can kill Akatsuki, or otherwise don't plan on ever returning to Leaf, then sure, let's give them SC, treason all the way. But I don't think we've reached that point yet.)
 
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Teaching SC to Kagome right now is pretty useless. It'll take years before he can benefit, and that's assuming he makes it a priority. Kagome's priority should be his sealing stats right now.

It is, at best, a distraction that we don't need right now.
 
Teaching Kagome SC loops him into FOOM in the long-term, which is likely to immediately improve his mental state (as he'll feel less like he's doomed to fall into irrelevance as the FOOMing Gouketsu hopelessly outpace him) and rapport with Hazou, which are non-trivially useful for the success of this mission.

acidshill said:
And wouldn't permission be cheaper?
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No. We already had near-infinite political capital with Naruto, and yet we still got the same spiel about how teaching it to Kagome just wasn't a priority and didn't pass cost-benefit analyses. The only way this actually happens isn't if we "get permission", it's if we aggressively spend our political capital on making it clear that we want to teach him, pushing Naruto on the matter to an extent that would verge on treason.

Doing it now is the politically cheapest way to do it. Naruto is going to wave it away with no second thoughts if we admit what we've done in the aftermath of the Akatsuki's destruction. If, however, we ask him for permission in the aftermath of the Akatsuki's destruction, I vividly see him repeating the same "responsible cost-benefit analysis is against this" spiel. Because, like, nothing's changed on that matter.
 
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RandomOTP said:
Why are we teaching SC to Kagome?
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Basically so that we never need approval for Kagome to learn SC in the future. That's it really. One level in the technique works fine, assuming he can cast it.

We have a blank check to do whatever right now so long as it isn't political nuclear waste or so morally repugnant that it's unconscionable, so we might as well use it to shore up some loose ends.
 
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Also, while I have never actually been serious about the idea that Kagome's SCs would be separately-instantiated versions of his constituent people, Kogami Yuna piloting one clone and Captain Kaga Miyu piloting another one, in the extremely slim outcome where that is true it could be quite the coup for our efforts. Many of the alt-Kagomes are sealmasters, and hail from other worlds where different ideas and innovations have taken shape over the course of the ninja world. We saw Kogami Yuna use interesting novel sealing ideas in her scene, if we could get her on board who knows what else she could guide us towards?

This on top of other value to be tapped from what would essentially amount to extradimensional travelers visiting the EN non-destructively, of course. Even giving this outcome 10% chance of happening strikes me as wildly optimistic, but if it does happen then we'll be so glad to have taken that shot.
 
MMKII said:
Basically so that we never need approval for Kagome to learn SC in the future. That's it really. One level in the technique works fine, assuming he can cast it.

We have a blank check to do whatever right now so long as it isn't political nuclear waste or so morally repugnant that it's unconscionable, so we might as well use it to shore up some loose ends.
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If it's just one level, I'm cautiously okay with it. I thought we were trying to get him to level SC to a point where he could FOOM or multithread.
 
It's still useful for Kagome to even have 1- minute clones or 10-minute clones because, much as we forget, SC is just fucking busted in general
 
Testing seals with a 1-minute head start from the failure's epicenter might let him survive something where he would have otherwise died. Like, for example, if we have to steal the rift from Oro and replace it with the Bladehorror portal.
 
Noumero said:
Teaching Kagome SC loops him into FOOM in the long-term, which is likely to immediately improve his mental state (as he'll feel less like he's doomed to fall into irrelevance as the FOOMing Gouketsu hopelessly outpace him) and rapport with Hazou, which are non-trivially useful for the success of this mission.
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Okay, that's a solid point.

Noumero said:
Doing it now is the politically cheapest way to do it. Naruto is going to wave it away with no second thoughts if we admit what we've done in the aftermath of the Akatsuki's destruction. If, however, we ask him for permission in the aftermath of the Akatsuki's destruction, I vividly see him repeating the same "responsible cost-benefit analysis is against this" spiel. Because, like, nothing's changed on that matter.
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I would hope that Naruto would be more decision-theoretically sensible than this, but it does seem plausible. And Chapter 666 did update me quite a bit towards Naruto being a pussy when push comes to shove...
 
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