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Could you elaborate? Why is Itachi genjutsu'ing us; what is his goal?
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
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- naruto rational rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Actually he is cooking up Uplift rn. He's built things to increase how fast he can pursue Uplift. That's pretty much it.
And on planning ahead with the extraction (and why we're put in a pretty bad position even if we succeed):
1. Itachi's will ask Naruto at some point if he ordered Hazo to go against Akasuki (or something like it). And since Naruto's been shown to completely flub the resolve roll against his intimidation, Naruto's will certainly reveal he did so. We should expect that Naruto's to either be dead or missing very soon. Leaf's Hokage will probably be replaced with an Akasuki friendly Hokage in response.
2. Oro's doing dimensionalism research. When Itachi quickly finds out, Oro's will be either dead or missing.
3. Goketsu clan will be burned to the ground and the ground salted. I'd expect at a minimum the entire clan to get the noose for being the clan of traitors. Honoka, Sasha, Haku, along with anyone we associate with or care about. Just as a warning to others of what happens when you try to go against Akasuki or their orders. Remember guys, this is a ninja death world.
4. Ino will almost certainly be taken as hostage if any breakout attempt succeeds.
5. Leaf will be defacto conquered by Akasuki, and probably have a puppet government installed. (The Hokage just left) and probably two (or maybe all three) of Leaf's S rank ninja (out of three) will no longer reside in Leaf.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
@Sir Stompy So is the only significant difference between your two plans asking Kei if it's a good idea to extract everyone from Leaf?
Also, does anyone have the balls/ovaries/tentacles to ask jashin for some luck getting the crew out?
It was a joke about the unending and constantly mutating arguments for increased contact with Itachi, at which point Hazo would (imho) reach a Bad End.
To answer your question however, imagine what and Itachi-infected voter would say. Itachi's goals remain the same, he doesn't give a shit about us except for the fact that we control Hazo.
Isn't this an even greater indictment on not extracting?
You have a list of inevitable events that will impact us worse the more (and longer) we don't extract. Seems pretty clear.
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Basically yeah I think, @faflec is that right?
I think there are some minor differences. Like mine writes a coded letter to Mari instead of spending the FP on an Invoke.
I'll put Jashin in the next version. Was going to put one out soon.
I don't see why? If we chat with Itachi, Itachi confirms Hazo's not doing anything all that bad, itachi chills, peaces out and notes he'll be back to check up on Hazo in a few months. If we extract, in a very showy fashion, Itachi has to be seen as putting the hammer down and will dig around in Leaf very intently.
Just have seen very little curiosity on what happens after the extraction mission is all.
Oh. Huh. He can't comply with the stupid deal I just made with him. Why don't I just kill him right now, something I already said I should be doing? I literally asked for his head 30 minutes ago.
I'll note that you didn't answer the question but deflected. Why would Itachi make a deal, that will be judged (by him) as impossible to comply with? He's both made the deal and is the judge on the deal!
If your position is that the deal was literally impossible to comply with that's fine and you can hold that opinion. But that's pretty doomer and silly imo. And doesn't narratively make much sense. You have to answer why Itachi has this strange fetish of giving out deals that people can't comply with, and then wasting his valuable time trying to track them down to kill them, instead of you know, just killing them there on the spot.
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- Location
- Yes.
More or less. The big differences are asking Kei if it's a good idea; the letters to Naruto/Itachi; and the coded letter to Mari.
I'm a dumbass and thought you meant Itachi would genjutsu Hazou, not one of us.
Itachi's instinctive reaction would probably be to get the fuck out of the genjutsu and kill Hazou for Out-contamination. Assuming he can't do that, however, he would probably get the genjutsu'd user to focus on prep days for various anti-Akatsuki endeavours, especially those he thinks won't work. He'd avoid WMDs like superchillers, and not push unpopular things like be pro-Akatsuki or defect to Akatsuki or trigger a runic sealing failure or stuff that we-the-hivemind wouldn't do or would be catastrophic to the setting.
If Itachi were truly powerful he'd probably try and get access to one of the QMs so that they get genjutsu'd or otherwise affected into rewriting the setting in his favor.
Why aren't we extracting Oro? And having him help us. He's researching dimensionalism and will have to be missing soon.
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In what universe does Oro need our fucking help with going missing.
In what universe should we not ask for his help?
Nah, Itachi is probably not confronting Oro in Leaf. Regardless, Oro doesn't need the help.
Itachi is too much of a coward to attempt this alone. When Oro has backup from other essies and prepared ground? No chance.
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- Yes.
Buddy, I'm addressing your comment on extracting Orochimaru, not your comment on him helping us.
A Goketsu classic.
Jokes aside, I don't see why you are limiting the discussion onto some hypothetical based on whether the "agreement" was impossible to obey or not. That doesn't matter. What matters is that in Itachi's eyes our current actions are a ticket to crucifixion with extreme prejudice. If nothing else, we are actively researching anti-Akatsuki superweapons, or researching the tools we need to research anti-Akatsuki superweapons.
If you think Itachi is going to be bound by semantics or legalism and will go "Aw, shucks, what can you do?" to the incredibly many messages' worth of fairy speak that is being peddled around, you have to be joking.
He can ask Naruto? Hey Naruto did you give Hazo's dimensionalism notes to anyone? Oh. You did? I wonder who that could be... the only other seal master in Leaf?
He's not alone? (They travel in packs right?)
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Noumero
Omit Needless Words
- If the buyer explains to you at length that he's going to use the gun you sell him to kill the President, and then you enthusiastically collaborate with him in an attempt to pick the best gun for the job, and then you sell it to him, then yes, you are responsible.
- If the book you wrote was commissioned by a major world power with the express purpose of being used to train engineers who'd build the nuclear bomb and the missile guidance system for it, and you optimized the book's contents to be as conductive to this purpose as possible (including studying the geography of the region they plan to bomb and adding helpful suggestions regarding the best targets), then yes, you are responsible.
- "Being responsible" isn't "being recognized as responsible by the civilizational mechanisms such that you get all the benefits/penalties for being responsible". (If I kill someone and I'm never convicted, am I responsible for the murder?)
- If the sealing notes you wrote concern original sealing projects that were commissioned by the Tower with the express purpose of being used to kill Akatsuki members and impede their use of the rift, and you're open-sourcing them specifically in order to make Leaf's clans more able to deploy these seals to kill the Akatsuki, then yes, you are responsible.
Yes? Yes, obviously. If I live in a country in which murder is banned, but my boss orders me to kill a guy and I do it, have I broken the law? If I promise someone to come to their birthday party, but the police detain me and put me in jail, have I broken the promise?
So if someone stalks you for days, figures out your daily routine, determines the best position to snipe you from, then finds a homicidal sociopath fresh out of prison, gives him all this information, and promises to give him a sniper rifle tomorrow and pay $100,000 for killing you, you are not going to report this guy to the police until after you see the assassin trying to shoot you?
- When reporting the Itachi/Hazou conversation to Tsunade way back when, try to downplay the rift's importance as much as possible.
- Don't tell Tsunade or Naruto about runecrafting, so that they don't get any ideas about using it against the Akatsuki. Definitely don't proactively bring up ideas about using it against the Akatsuki to deny them the rift.
- Try to convince Naruto, at every instance, that opposing the Akatsuki is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it.
- If ordered to share dimensionalism with Orochimaru, do your best to refuse. If push comes to shove, report to Itachi if you're being forced to do it.
Honest question: is it your opinion, given everything that you know about Hazou's capabilities and plans, that it would not be to Itachi's long-term benefit if he killed Hazou as soon as possible?
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- He/Him
The one in which we don't want to be entirely beholden to whatever he tells us to do at all times.
Edits to my plan, gonna cook it more tonight. Still want to figure our which seals to send Mari.
Itachi asked Hazo to not act against Akatsuki. Not to be a literal agent actively working on behalf of Akatsuki against Leaf. There's a very important difference here. But I'm once again asking for you to tell me. Could Hazo have complied with the deal? Without you know, being an literal Akatsuki shill after they literally robbed from Hazo? That sounds like a stretch for even Itachi to believe to happen when he's making the deal.
If I'm reading you right:
Itachi: Here is the deal: Don't do anything to harm us or research dimensionalism.
Hazo: Okay
Itachi: Oh, whoops, ackshually it meant you had to be a double agent for Akatsuki, how could you not have known? After I literally robbed you, and for you to refused to join us. You had to be actively working to help Akatsuki. It was obvious. Guess you gotta die now.
Once again. If Itachi knew everything. (That Hazo is run by a bunch of 21st century people playing a quest) than Itachi would be God? But he doesn't? He's been given the opportunity multiple times to stop Hazo and been in a position to do so. (chop off his hands) He didn't. This is because, as it's been shown, multiple times now, in this story, Itachi is only mainly concerned about Hazo's dimensionalism research.
I do think we would have been in a much better situation with respect to claiming we haven't violated the deal. If we had let hazou's true internal motivations/intent be more undecided or even unstated for retroactive declarations. (Ex: hokage orders, I follow to not do treason. Let's hold off on specific anti-akatsuki weapons, first I increase my power. Am I planning to oppose akatsuki or just use my increased power for more leverage against leaf and akatsuki? I'll figure that out later.)
[X] Action Plan: To Out Or Not To Out
Someone already quoted Hazo directly saying that the point of his research with light was to kill Akatsuki. The logic doesn't hold water.
From the same message:
Okay, you are joking.
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- Location
- Yes.
My plan now prays to Lord Jashin.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Action Plan: To Out Or Not To Out
What's more important? That the extraction succeeds or that the extractions chances are dogwater, but we can at least know we wouldn't have a S rank baddy on our side?
It just seems like a good idea to have at least one S rank on our side for the escape. He's been shown to follow through on deals before. And we were cooperating with him before this (he was doing the rift portion)
It just seems like a good idea to have at least one S rank on our side for the escape. He's been shown to follow through on deals before. And we were cooperating with him before this (he was doing the rift portion)
And what exactly would you call this?