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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Ooh, I have an germ of an idea for how to get a message to Mari without arousing suspicion: if we can think of a pretext to send messages to various people, Itachi won't get suspicious and neither will Noburi. Then included in our message to Mari (which should have some non-exfil content as well) we can include exfil instructions.

Edit:
Or send a cypher message to Mari via Noburi telling him that it's asking about secret finance projects because now we need money for something out where we are.
 
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Some leopards slaughtered a dog pack. We don't know if the ones at the den had attacked dogs. And given this den was babysitting children I wouldn't put high odds on it. Compared to the earlier bands of leopards we had seen.
Upon recollection, this den did attack us first. But according to the action plan Hazou intended to ambush and kill them even if they hadn't. And the den attacked us after a dog tunneled to spy on them, I don't know whether you consider that aspect a mitigating factor.

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well i should say i wouldn't put high odds on this den attacking dogs recently. or even after the normal leopard raids had ramped up which got cannai worried. whether at least one has at some point in their life attacked an innocent dog, i'm not sure. especially the powerful one which indicates combat experience. but decent odds at least one of the leopards had not attacked an innocent dog in all of their life too.
 
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@Heleor
There's my 2 plans. I don't know if you missed them or considered them unviable, so I pinged you to be safe.
[] Action Plan: No dimensionalism here
[] Action Plan: Outrageous distraction
 
@MarsIronPI
and if my other post isn't convincing. I can list more examples in case the different circumstances are significant to you. Like hazou killing the liberator ninja who arrested our team, for Mari's manslaughter of her fan/stalker. With no attempt to talk things out first.
 
MarsIronPI said:
I wasn't following the thread when the decision was made, but would someone please tell me why we decided against joining Akatsuki?
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Right so, these were my main reasons for not joining Akatuski.

1) These assholes talk a big game about world peace but if you look at their actions and not their words they empower psychopaths like Hidan, Sasori, and Deidara, and they make subzero effort to rein them in.

2) They were going to put Hazou into a box and confiscate his Scroll when we were desperately needed to coordinate at the Conclave.

Recall that the Conclave was entirely stalled out, and frankly not going to succeed until Hazou stepped in and got that meeting between Pantsaa and Conjura. That was the turning point, and it simply would not have happened without Hazou.

3) We had no guarantees that Sasori wouldn't decide to dissect Hazou instead.
 
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roobee said:
@Heleor
There's my 2 plans. I don't know if you missed them or considered them unviable, so I pinged you to be safe.
[] Action Plan: No dimensionalism here
[] Action Plan: Outrageous distraction
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Thanks! (In the future, it would be useful to link the plans involved so I don't have to hunt them down).

There's a few issues with your plans that I find unviable, but the biggest is that it doesn't follow a plan format and just looks like a big blob of text. I believe the QMs mentioned they dislike those types of plans before (?). Either way, it does make it harder to read them and optimize/critique them.
 
MarsIronPI said:
Sorry for the long post. I just caught up and had time to reply. Is it better in general to split long reply posts like these?
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Suleverf said:
Yeah posts of that type replying to many disparate individual points should be avoided. It's known as spaghetti posting and can possibly attract mod attention under Rule 4 when done excessively.
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Expanding on that a little bit:

Quoting squishy in another thread:


Spaghetti posting is typified by the quoting of individual sentences and sometimes even sentence fragments. It's often used as a rhetorical tool that attempts to undermine an opponent's argument by unreasonable addressing individual components, rather than the argument as a whole. That's a form of bad faith debating, and represents a violation of Rule 4 - don't be disruptive."
[...]
It's not unusual to find 'line edit' reviews of new chapters in User Fiction, quoting individual sentences or pieces of dialogue and making a short comment. These posts are essentially innocent of any wrongdoing, it's just the way the user engages with the work. Infracting someone for that, or banning it entirely, would be a bridge too far. However, the way that the quote tags format in XenForo means that posts like these take up a lot of real estate on screens, despite their relatively low word counts.
[...]
In summary:

1. If you spaghetti post in an argument, discussion or debate, you will be opening yourself to staff intervention, including infractions or other punishments.
2. If you spaghetti post innocently [EJ addition: line-item reviews of new creative work was the given example of 'innocently'], make use of the spoiler tag to reduce the amount of page space you're taking up.
​

@MarsIronPI your original post was responding to a number of different people, which wouldn't count as spaghetti posting if you were responding to only one thing from each person. If you respond to multiple line-item points from a given person then maybe / maybe not it would count.

No one in MfD has ever cared about this issue and as I understand it the point of the rule is to prevent bad faith debating, so if you're debating in good faith then you shouldn't be infracted. That's my understanding, but obviously a given mod might think differently and bap you simply for the form of your post.
 
Sir Stompy said:
He might value his rep on the 7th Path, but he hasn't promised us safe conduct, and in fact, he promised to kill us if we did what we're doing. So I'm quite confident he'd be willing to kill us there.
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When did he promise to kill us if we tried to develop weapons to kill him/other members of the Akatsuki?

We have, as far as I'm aware, kept our promises not to research dimensionalism.

If he asks is if we've spent serious time and energy researching methods to kill the Akatsuki we could probably just say 'ninja'.
 
FaintlySorcerous said:
When did he promise to kill us if we tried to develop weapons to kill him/other members of the Akatsuki?

We have, as far as I'm aware, kept our promises not to research dimensionalism.

If he asks is if we've spent serious time and energy researching methods to kill the Akatsuki we could probably just say 'ninja'.
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Noumero said:
@CitizenTen, the actual terms of the deal ultimatums Itachi delivered were:
Velorien said:
You may stay in Leaf and continue your work of Uplift. So long as you do not interfere with our plans, we will not interfere with yours.
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Velorien said:
Akatsuki will not tolerate any action that may interfere with Nagato's rescue.
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Planning to kill them as part of a conspiracy involving Naruto and Orochimaru, which involved handing over our dimensionalism notes to Orochimaru, with the ultimate goals of stealing the rift from under their noses, preventing them from rescuing Pain, and killing them all, is very much interfering with their plans. And the stated penalty is–
eaglejarl said:
"Fine. Remember the rules and that breaking them means your death as a minimum.
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We can't even claim to have technically not strayed outside the boundaries Itachi set us. We've more than earned death in his eyes.
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Nebulus said:
Why, maybe we could make 4D+ seals! We can now "perceive" more than what our eyes can see thanks to DotO, as well as comprehend different dimensions to some extent. Well, if it's gonna be anything like runes, we'll need to see an example of 4D seals.
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Note that the extra perception applies only while using the Disciple of the Beyond stunt, i.e. when your mind is in the Out.

CitizenTen said:
With that information:
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Note that I am not writing the next chapter and you definitely should not rely on @Velorien to make rule judgements the same way I do, especially in cases where I said "Probably."

RoadWild said:
@eaglejarl @Paperclipped @Velorien
Hey, just letting you guys know that the hint on the Disciple of the Beyond stunt on Hazo's character sheet states it causes a Mild Physical consequences, instead of Mental
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Fixed, thanks.

Heleor said:
There's a few issues with your plans that I find unviable, but the biggest is that it doesn't follow a plan format and just looks like a big blob of text. I believe the QMs mentioned they dislike those types of plans before (?). Either way, it does make it harder to read them and optimize/critique them.
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Speaking only for myself here: So long as it's readable, I'm okay with plans being simple text instead of bullet lists. Bullet lists are a pain in the neck for the plan writer to implement, which is an advantage for straight text. OTOH, bullet lists have the advantage of clear structure and seem to help with word count reduction.

If anyone wants to use plain text plans, I do insist that they have decent spag. That means I shouldn't be tripping over multiple typos / grammar errors, everything should be properly punctuated and capitalized, etc. Basically, I shouldn't have to work to read the plan.
 
I managed to better identify the pattern!
"restateing somthing I said to me, without commentary, leaving me unclear on what you want beyond telling me something I clearly already know".

Witch actually mostly wasn't what you were doing, I was just misunderstanding you!Sorry!
The was a little of that pattern going around from a few people, and it got to me. I appreciate you being chill.

MarsIronPI said:
I think that what happened is that I understood you to be saying "Let Mari pick, but we should advocate for her doing these," to which I said "Some of these are bad ideas, and I don't think we should include any ideas for wordcount purposes."
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Makes sense! I missundertood you a bit.
MarsIronPI said:
Sorry for causing you to use your time like this. No, it wasn't really useful, except for coming to an agreement of opinion.
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If your understanding/opinion changed, then it was useful.
MarsIronPI said:
Thank you very much. I look forward to continuing our interactions. I'll try to be more careful about this kind of thing.
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Looking to it! Sorry for going off on you a bit.
(and generic reminder not to overcorrect)

MarsIronPI said:
Wait when?
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Most recently on-screen, about 2 chapters ago, when Hazou was teasing Kei about her allegedly salacious mail.
We've also been sending Natuto vapid weekly checkins with no real content.

More generally, we've been useing "summoner, deliver this letter" heavily since the first week the clan was founded and we noticed we have 2 summoners, and Noburi is our only link to Leaf right now.

Edit: hell, if it makes it less sus, have Kei give Noburi the letter marked for Mari along with her next batch of salacious mail.
Like, it might be slightly weird, but a different, normal, kind of weird. And there are a lot of things Kei could want Mari's private advice on, where Hazou might be likely to just pass things verbally through Noburi.
 
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eaglejarl said:
Note that I am not writing the next chapter and you definitely should not rely on @Velorien to make rule judgements the same way I do, especially in cases where I said "Probably."
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I do understand. it was a joke plan originally. I'm not holding my breath here. But I do think the plan has real, actual merit and would be completely awesome to read. And if we all die during the extraction, we get to wonder if it was so crazy it would have worked.


In response to @Sir Stompy , we didn't break the agreement? If Oro's doing Dimensionalism research that's not our problem? We gave up the notes because we were ordered explicitly by our Hokage. Also giving someone a book is not really "taking direct action against our interests". It's a bunch of notes that we gave to scary snake man because Orange Man might hurt us.


Hazo's taken no direct action against Akatsuki interests. Hazo can't be held directly responsible for all of Leaf's actions here. If Naruto and Oro are doing Dimensonalism research, sucks for them? Hazo's sqeaky clean. He agreed to not do dimensionalism research and not do anything that threatens their direct interests. Currently he's done both.


Has he been planning otherwise? Sure? But he hasn't actually done anything? That's the key. If you're daydreaming about all the ways you're gonna murder/ take revenge on someone, do you go to jail? No. Hazo can freely admit both he's not a fan of Akasuki, doesn't like them, but has taken no direct action against their interests.

He's kept his word.

Is it gamble? Sure? But so is everything else we're planning. But it should be roughly in line with what Itachi's expecting. After all, Hazo harboring no ill will would be absolutely crazy to expect after Itachi just stole everything.


Itachi: I murdered your Hokage stole all your stuff. Promise me you won't take direct action against me and won't research dimensionalism.
Hazo: Okay.

Later:
Itachi: Now, don't lie to me, have you researched dimensionalism?
Hazo: To be completely honest, I hate you with every fever of my being and want you dead. But a promise is a promise. I didn't break our agreement.
Itachi: I mean. Close enough.
 
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I wonder if it'd be possible to gain a 'Summoning Scroll Seal' discipline.

Similarly, if we could make the Seal-canceling, Rune- canceling and Scroll- canceling (or unmaking) Rune that'd be another huge paradigm shift.
 
Left-Hand Mutant said:
[X] Action Plan: Take The Fam And Go
Wordcount: ~350
  • Tell Noburi we'll disassemble camp and return in a little over two weeks.
  • Sanity/Optimize with K/K/S
    • Discuss and optimize the plan. follow Kei's advice.
    • Will Pantsa abandon Kei if we do this?
      • How can we alleviate that risk?
    • Discuss the precautions (oaths, restricted locations, Boss permissions) we're going to need to take on the Seventh Path to remove that as an avenue of communication from Leaf.
      • Once the letter to Mari is sent, start enacting those protocols.
  • ~30 hours later, send a ciphered message to Mari. (have Kei send it alongside her other mail?)
    • "We're going missing. anyone not with us is potential leverage. in the next few days, exfiltrate team Uplift and whoever else you find it wise to include."
      • More people/resources are good, but only if they don't blow the exfiltration.
      • Burning bridges and cutting ties is good, but clan Goketsu and uplift projects collapsing is bad. Looking like we care about anything left behind is also bad. It's a balancing act, figure it out.
      • Some possible optional suggestions of ways to extract value and cut ties. use your judgement, and don't risk ruining the exfiltration.
        • exfiltrate people (Goketsu ninja/Tenten/Ino /etc)
        • loot the Uzumaki clan vault, especially of seals.
        • loot anything else of value that won't immediately blow your exfiltration.
        • steal the Monkey Scroll
      • Steal/Destroy any sensitive seals / jutsu scrolls.
        • We don't want to empower Akasuki or reveal our abilities.
        • Include notes from Kagome on how to remove/destroy any sensitive materials in the Black Archive(Kagome's Bedroom)
      • Once you're confident you've made a clean getaway, give Noburi the password "Firefly" and send him to the Toad Sages.
        • (Toad Sages: check Noburi for signs of combat/genjutsu)
          • (Toad Sages: if he has the password and everything seems normal, direct them to the Chakra Cave in Wind, otherwise, direct them to our old camp in Snow)
  • Start heading toward that chakra-pool-cave in Wind
  • Dogs
    • Let Cannai know what's up
    • Ask for an Elite bodyguard dog
    • Offer contracts to all the dogs from the last raid.
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made some minor changes. highlighted are:
Kei sends the letter to Mari, as the same time as she send other mail. she's been sending private letters frequently, so this is less suspicious.
various rephrases to make the plan more clear and emphisise key points.
 
CitizenTen said:
In response to @Sir Stompy , we didn't break the agreement?
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Hazo received orders to research weapons to kill Akatsuki and did so. Given the terms Itachi laid down were:

You may stay in Leaf and continue your work of Uplift. So long as you do not interfere with our plans, we will not interfere with yours.
...
Akatsuki will not tolerate any action that may interfere with Nagato's rescue.
...
"Fine. Remember the rules and that breaking them means your death as a minimum.
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If you believe that both Itachi and Hazo would not consider researching weapons to kill Akatsuki to be interference or that Hazo could hide this from Itachi, then okay, language is subjective and all, but the terms Itachi used do not give me the impression that he draws a meaningful distinction between "planned to interfere and intended to act on it" and "actually took physical action to interfere".
 
Paperclipped said:
I wish I could have some way to contact you to tell you to return, but if I can do it, Akatsuki can do it.
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.....Snake is a short skywalk over the water away from Toad.
And it's... very impractical for the Akatsuki to interrogate or threaten Orochimaru.

I say we reach out. Drop off a message for him at the edge of Snake letting him know that we'll take his calls, don't tell anyone right now, but please connect Natuto to us when the Rift Battle is about to start.

While we're at it, ask what his price is for the notes on his rift-moving runes.
 
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