It was, just got added late into the voting cycle.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
I'd also like to vote for this very fine plan, but it's missing something like "everybody who comes out of the rift need to swear to uphold AMITY, Including Pain" (no more psycho-rituals without AMITY approval!)
generally FS's plan has a better emotional pitch "goketsu are conditionally VERY in favor of Pain, AMITY ascendant, do the hard thing and coperate"
- Location
- USA
[X] Action Plan: Not Actually A Fleshed Out Action Plan
I also want to vote for "Action Plan: No, but Yes", but am wary of the last bit where we ask Itachi to give up most of the concessions. Soften them in secret, sure, but I think a large part of them is to encourage the idea that killing someone in Akatsuki comes with a ruinous weregild.
Akatsuki is obligated to make sure everyone sees Leaf as being horribly punished, regardless of whether they think it deserved.
I also want to vote for "Action Plan: No, but Yes", but am wary of the last bit where we ask Itachi to give up most of the concessions. Soften them in secret, sure, but I think a large part of them is to encourage the idea that killing someone in Akatsuki comes with a ruinous weregild.
Akatsuki is obligated to make sure everyone sees Leaf as being horribly punished, regardless of whether they think it deserved.
- Location
- Washington, USA
[X] Action Plan: Not Actually A Fleshed Out Action Plan
Pro: Ami thrives in such conditions, might consider herself to now owe us a big favor.
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I dont think demanding that Fantasy Jesus swear fealty to a bunch of Kage (murderous dictators) is a great idea, especially in absentia - Itachi cant promise Nagato will do anything even if he wanted to, and honestly, if we are the ones resurrecting him? We can just leverage the life debt and make a good pitch and convince Pain of something of the sort, he would be happy to see AMITY thrive anyway.
In short, I think suggestions are better than demands here, and that we'll get further with cooperation in good will than ultimatums. Our interests seem kinda... aligned?
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That part is super good. Leaf is PISSED right now, and concessions will help cooperation. the Akatsuki taking Hazou instead of clan seals and enforced Jashinism should be somewhat more palatable, and is a sign to leaf that the Akatsuki are trying to play nice.
besides, with Asuma dead, I don't think anyone thinks Leaf is getting off scot-free.
The Akatsuki would be pledging to not let resurrect Pain without a pledge of AMITY support. which IS a promise they can make. (they would totally let Nagato renege on this, but I don't think he would)
Pain wouldn't be pledging to slaveishly obey the Kage, just to uphold AMITY and not to unilaterally do psycho-rituals without consent.
These seem like modestly reasonable asks, and if we get them our path to victory gets much, much easier.
At that point couldn't we'd be campaigning for :
Akatsuki makes it an AMITY venture under the guise of researching dimensionalism to avert the Dragonwar and recruits Hazou and Kagome from Leaf and some other sealmasters from other villages because the matter is of utmost importance?
I think that could fly. It even makes sense, and isnt really a lie, like Kisame demanding Shark Clan embassies, Itachi asking for dimensionalism research, Sasori for seals, the general reluctance to raze Leaf... it all supports the cause being true. Asking for Kagome too takes some suspicions off of Hazou and Itachi can say the research he found convinced him that Akatsuki needs our help and offer to waive some demands in return.
A pledge like the one you propose I think we can persuade them to make, and thats as good as we'll get because its not like anyone can stop them if they walk back their words so publically made or not it doesnt matter.
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
[X] Action Plan: Politely Decline
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Brilliantly.
Has it occurred to you that maybe he wants an apprenticeship with you for the free XP? Honestly, it doesn't have to be about you and your wants all the time! Won't someone please think of
Ya got that right, sister!
??
Here's the rules in brief:
- Consequences are represented by a certain number of shifts
- When all of those shifts have been healed, the Consequence goes away.
- You automatically heal a certain number of shifts per day based on your relevant stat
- You can heal extra shifts by resting
- A Medical Ninjutsu skill check can help to heal a physical Consequence
- A Medical Knowledge skill check can help to heal a physical Consequence, but can also add more if you flub the roll
Here's the rules in medium:
- Consequences are represented by (a certain number of shifts of damage) and (a TN to heal those shifts)
- The exact number of shifts for a consequence varies by QM decision. By default it is:
- Mild: 20 shifts
- Medium: 200 shifts
- Severe: 2000 shifts
- The exact TN for healing shifts for a consequence varies by QM decision. By default it is:
- Mild: TN 10
- Medium: TN 20
- Severe: TN 30
- The exact number of shifts for a consequence varies by QM decision. By default it is:
- When all of those shifts have been healed, the Consequence goes away.
- You automatically heal a certain number of shifts per day based on your relevant stat
- Physique is used to heal physical Consequences
- Resolve is used to heal mental Consequences
- Once per day, roll the relevant stat against the appropriate TN and see how many shifts you succeeded / failed by. If you succeeded, subtract those shifts from the amount that remains to heal. If you failed, add those shifts to the amount that remains to heal
- If you spend the day resting, you heal an additional 20 shifts
- A Medical Ninjutsu skill check can help to heal a physical Consequence. To use MN for healing:
- Make a Medical Ninjutsu check (to actually attempt the healing) and note how many shifts you succeeded / failed by. Call this number N.
- Make a Medical Knowledge check (to check that you attempted the right thing).
- If you passed, subtract 2N shifts from the damage that remains to heal
- If you failed, the number of shifts you failed the Medical Knowledge (not Medical Ninjutsu) roll by is added to the amount that remains to heal (you tried the wrong thing and made matters worse)
- A Medical Knowledge skill check can help to heal a Physical Consequence. (NB: This roll is separate from the one required to use MN.)
- If you succeed on the roll, subtract that many shifts from the amount that remains to heal.
- If you fail on the roll, add that many shifts to the amount that remains to heal
Dozens? I think you may need to go back and re-read. It's one check per day by default. At the very most, if you have a medic-nin tending you every day then it's 4 checks (one for self-healing, one for biological healing, a MK+MN check for magical healing).
The Clan Council meeting is probably over. Time has passed since Itachi took you outside Leaf. Tsunade will absolutely want to debrief you immediately, as will anyone else who cares about your welfare and watched or heard about you being marched into the forest by an S-ranker known to want you dead.
??? I don't understand the question...are you asking me if you'll get the bounty XP even if bad things happen as a result? Yes, you will.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
Aw, she really does care! :3
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
@Paperclipped wrote this up for signoff, it's signed off, I'm posting it:
In other words, they take a fixed 2 days to heal.
Seal research is definitely mentally taxing, but rote scribing and infusion (especially for seals that don't require SSA and where Hazou has enough veterancy that failure is ~impossible) is not taxing. Clan administration is not mentally taxing, for the most part.
For physical consequences, my heuristic would be "would doing this worsen your injuries?" Heuristics for mental consequences seems harder to adjudicate, I'll leave it to the QMs with spoon issues to describe their experiences of how they find certain tasks to be cognitively challenging when in a bad mental state.
Great question. SSA Consequences have double the typical number of shifts, and don't benefit from Resolve-based healing. However, many mentally strenuous things (including integrating SC hours!) can be done without voiding the natural healing bonus -- only sealing research is prohibited.
In other words, they take a fixed 2 days to heal.
Seal research wouldn't be physically taxing -- but the jog to the research facility five miles out probably would.
Seal research is definitely mentally taxing, but rote scribing and infusion (especially for seals that don't require SSA and where Hazou has enough veterancy that failure is ~impossible) is not taxing. Clan administration is not mentally taxing, for the most part.
For physical consequences, my heuristic would be "would doing this worsen your injuries?" Heuristics for mental consequences seems harder to adjudicate, I'll leave it to the QMs with spoon issues to describe their experiences of how they find certain tasks to be cognitively challenging when in a bad mental state.
Yep -- so if I reused the method I followed above, a Severe inflicted with 2 stress would be 4 under the "baseline", so -40% -> 1200 shifts. This makes sense to me, in that a Severe barely-inflicted wouldn't be as bad as one that comes from a devastating, barely-blocked blow.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Why does an S-ranker, who works with a group of S-rankers, give a crap about what a singular Leaf Clan thinks?
-.-'
Updated plan since now we know we'll have to debrief with Tsunade and I want to give pilot something to work with if she suspects us of treasonous intentions. Or maybe her accusing us of treason is the end of the next update and then we have to make another plan to respond to the accusations, idk. Feedback welcome.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Bruh, Itachi really joining the pile of characters forbidding the lore to us with a straight face?
*shakes head*
Kill 'em.
Note that operations =/= checks. Each check you make you have to roll dice, add it together, subtract TN, divide by three, add one and round down to get shifts, then you subtract Shifts from the Consequence appropriately and then you redo this several times a day if there are multiple checks that need to be made, and then updates often cover multiple days, so it adds up to a large amount of work for a single skill, which of course can be done via a spreadsheet formula or such but ideally a ruleset for a single skill would be simple enough not require such a spreadsheet to calculate outcomes, or glancing back at the rules to make sure eveything's nice and proper.
just feels like too much. Maybe its not, but it could be simpler without any loss of mechanical depth is what I was trying to say, I guess, and it feels quite rigid too. I have a bunch of feedback as to the actual mechanical balancing of the ruleset, too, but that will have to wait till I get some sleep because its nearly 5am rn where I live haha.
Compare this with the suggestion:
- Take a Medium from Taijutsu 41 at Physique 20.
- 240 x 41 / 20 = 492 hours
- Rest in bed at the clinic with minimal activity.
- A chuunin doctor checks his MedKnow 41 for a Treatment Plan vs TN 10 (Average) on the Medium as basic taijutsu wounds are as common as it gets and treating them is pretty much the first thing a medic's getting taught. He is not rushing nor meticulous, so he wont move up nor down the time ladder in the task. He rolls 41 + 0 (Dice) = 31 over TN = 11 Shifts = +55% Healing Rate.
- The MedNin 40 healer at the clinic is very busy and can only spare so much time. Healing is normally a TL 8 task (An Hour) but he rushes it as much as he can (3 steps down), so now its TL 5. He rolls 40 - 15 (3 AB) = 25, which on +0 dice is still +5 vs Physique 20, and that is 2 Shifts, or +20%.
- Healing Rate = 1.75 (1+0.55+0.2) x 2 (Rest) = 3.5x for that day, meaning 3.5 x 24 = 84h off the wound.
Its a very similar system but less numbers heavy, with clearly defined Time Ladder steps for actions and a perfectly granular progression. Its imo more simulationist as a result, because its less abstract and avoids many pitfalls of the current ruleset.
Like the healing from Resting, MedNin and MedKnow all being flat numbers uncaring and unrelated to the base duration and hence severity of the Consequence scaling off Physique.
Or genin mednin being harmful more often than being helpful due to the TNs being set arbitrarily as a fit for chuunin+ mednin only.
Or characters being exactly as easy to heal (or harm!) with mednin regardless of their Physique, which, it probably should be harder to heal the wounds sustained by Gai than a random civilian, or to harm the former's body.
Or doctors diagnosing the same wound with MedKnow over and over again daily instead of making a diagnosis once, then doing a treatment plan based on that (That just seems.. off. Sure, they'd redo it if it doesn't work, but if it does?)
Or immediate healing affecting two interdependent variables, which means there is always a golden combination to apply but it isnt obvious leading to arbitrarily suboptimal healing choices and leftover shifts that cant be spent due to cost progressions, which is a loss for granularity.
Etc etc
- 240 x 41 / 20 = 492 hours
- Rest in bed at the clinic with minimal activity.
- A chuunin doctor checks his MedKnow 41 for a Treatment Plan vs TN 10 (Average) on the Medium as basic taijutsu wounds are as common as it gets and treating them is pretty much the first thing a medic's getting taught. He is not rushing nor meticulous, so he wont move up nor down the time ladder in the task. He rolls 41 + 0 (Dice) = 31 over TN = 11 Shifts = +55% Healing Rate.
- The MedNin 40 healer at the clinic is very busy and can only spare so much time. Healing is normally a TL 8 task (An Hour) but he rushes it as much as he can (3 steps down), so now its TL 5. He rolls 40 - 15 (3 AB) = 25, which on +0 dice is still +5 vs Physique 20, and that is 2 Shifts, or +20%.
- Healing Rate = 1.75 (1+0.55+0.2) x 2 (Rest) = 3.5x for that day, meaning 3.5 x 24 = 84h off the wound.
Its a very similar system but less numbers heavy, with clearly defined Time Ladder steps for actions and a perfectly granular progression. Its imo more simulationist as a result, because its less abstract and avoids many pitfalls of the current ruleset.
Like the healing from Resting, MedNin and MedKnow all being flat numbers uncaring and unrelated to the base duration and hence severity of the Consequence scaling off Physique.
Or genin mednin being harmful more often than being helpful due to the TNs being set arbitrarily as a fit for chuunin+ mednin only.
Or characters being exactly as easy to heal (or harm!) with mednin regardless of their Physique, which, it probably should be harder to heal the wounds sustained by Gai than a random civilian, or to harm the former's body.
Or doctors diagnosing the same wound with MedKnow over and over again daily instead of making a diagnosis once, then doing a treatment plan based on that (That just seems.. off. Sure, they'd redo it if it doesn't work, but if it does?)
Or immediate healing affecting two interdependent variables, which means there is always a golden combination to apply but it isnt obvious leading to arbitrarily suboptimal healing choices and leftover shifts that cant be spent due to cost progressions, which is a loss for granularity.
Etc etc
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Heh.
Do not go to Bear.
Enma's speech making the rounds.
Akatsuki bait! Where is that custard recipe? Embarrassing Orochimaru stories - and their ethical manufacture- could be the difference between death and a chuckle, hair ruffle and push on our way. Great chapter!
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] Marry Ami for the Forbidden Lore. Divorce Ami when she refuses to give Hazou the Forbidden Lore.
The simple Yes and No plans are ambiguous. Itachi asked if it was our final answer, so yes could mean yes we are not joining.
[X] Action Plan: Not Actually A Fleshed Out Action Plan
@Buggy I think we need to and should reveal hazou's blindline ability to download the great seal to itachi to convince him to let us make a rune. and that we aren't just arrogant to think we can make a new sealing discipline. even then he might find it too risky to let hazou infuse a seal near him, sealing failures are dangerous yo.
[X] Action Plan: Not Actually A Fleshed Out Action Plan
...we could just tell her akatsuki will destroy leaf if we do that
i am actually against that. i trust pain more than amity. especially because AMITY is a vote of the kages or something, not a true democracy of all people.
@Buggy I think we need to and should reveal hazou's blindline ability to download the great seal to itachi to convince him to let us make a rune. and that we aren't just arrogant to think we can make a new sealing discipline. even then he might find it too risky to let hazou infuse a seal near him, sealing failures are dangerous yo.
We should go ask Mari/Ami/Shika why Itachi cares so bad about the Thinker clans.
- Location
- Yes.
Point out that our main goals were:
- To not get Itachi'd.
- To give a sufficiently-good reason to decline without being Itachi'd.
- To get as much information on Akatsuki's short- and long-term plans without being Itachi'd.