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That doesn't really factor in here imo. We have sufficient evidence to determine that the attackers knew she was coming in advance. This wasn't just a random encounter that wiped her team because the world is dangerous.
If there's a reason that this wasn't super-weird, it'll be because we (the player base) are missing context or information which is obvious to everyone. I'd be stunned/shocked if we float this idea to Mari/Kei and they go '...huh, yeah, that's a good point, I didn't think of that' given the level of perpetual paranoia that the average ninja has.

Either they're going to tell us, 'yeah, that is suspicious, and we do need to look into it, we thought that was obvious and why are you risking someone noticing we noticed' or they're going to have a good explanation.
Anyone else remember when Asuma traded plants to the Wakahisa that would essentially allow chakra to gold conversion amd he thought that this would likely weaken Mist more than strengthen it? Might be relevant soon.
This was because the effort required to produce the gold made it a boondoggle, IIRC. We literally produced a massive sapphire in - possibly the largest finished-and-cut sapphire to ever exist in the EN - in, what, an hour at most? Boondoggle that ain't.
 
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If there's a reason that this wasn't super-weird, it'll be because we (the player base) are missing context or information which is obvious to everyone. I'd be stunned/shocked if we float this idea to Mari/Kei and they go '...huh, yeah, that's a good point, I didn't think of that' given the level of perpetual paranoia that the average ninja has.

Either they're going to tell us, 'yeah, that is suspicious, and we do need to look into it, we thought that was obvious and why are you risking someone noticing we noticed' or they're going to have a good explanation.
I mean it's just as possible that the intel was leaked on accident and so on. It doesn't have to be conspiracy. I'm just saying it goes beyond "Akane got hit by a random encounter." This was pretty clearly premeditated by someone.
 
Would it matter if you stopped?
Is the you referring to Hazou, or Ino here? Stopped what exactly? It's not clear.
How do you break the cycle?
Same here, is the you Ino or Hazou? I assume the cycle of hatred is the cycle, but it could be clearer.
Discuss Ruka, reconciliation
Reconciling what exactly?
  • Goketsu/Hagoromo need to see each other as full people.
    • Reference the evolution of Noburi/Neji's relationship.
  • Assign Goketsu-Hagoromo teams long-term till'n'fills requiring cooperation. Neutral (Sarutobi? Inuzaka?) leaders.
  • Are there more flexible Hagoromo? We want to see their clan as complex, multifaceted
I'm wondering if Hazou should suggest trying to build ties with the younger generation of Hagoromo. Ritsuo is never going to be a fan, but we've had good luck with the game nights and the Hyuuga.

Also, the Hags have all the Sage lore in Leaf, that could be a good bonding point. We have some interesting tidbits from Dog and the other Seventh Path Clans.
 
I mean it's just as possible that the intel was leaked on accident and so on. It doesn't have to be conspiracy. I'm just saying it goes beyond "Akane got hit by a random encounter." This was pretty clearly premeditated by someone.

The fact that there isn't a strong motive to go after Akane outside of EM nukes. So either someone in leaf planned the op or someone leaked EM.
 
[X] Action Plan: Reflection
I feel like it's either something Hazou rejects (which costs us nothing) or it's something that gets us either more TYS (and thus sealing) OR understanding of summoning scrolls (which is insane veterancy for what we need to do to save Akane).
Ironically given our past conversations, I think a strong reason not to do this now is speed. Downloading a Sage-tier seal, on the two occasions we've done it, has always given us a Severe Mental Consequence. I remember doing the calculations when we Great Seal'd ourselves and figured that in the long run we gained more from SSA than we lost from FOOM over the recovery period, but that draw into relief that gaining TYS trades off short-term effectiveness for long-term power.

A Hazou with a Severe is not going to be as good at Sealing as a Hazou without, even if he gains TYS from the attempt. Calligraphy will also suffer without even any counterbalance. Hazou will spend in-universe months at a lower sealing ability before he actually benefits from the experience. And that's if everything goes right.

So even in the optimistic case, I wouldn't pursue this angle anytime soon. We're explicitly on a time limit where we have to figure out necromancy before the Akatsuki does, and that relies on us leveraging our high Sealing skill right now.
This was because the effort required to produce the gold made it a boondoggle, IIRC. We literally produced a massive sapphire in - possibly the largest finished-and-cut sapphire to ever exist in the EN - in, what, an hour at most? Boondoggle that ain't.
The impracticality of the jutsu is why it languished in Leaf without ever being used or banned: it would never be worth the investment. The Wakahisa are uniquely situated to make use of it, by contrast, and can expect to make a ton of money off of it. The reason Asuma believes it will weaken Mist is because he expects the Wakahisa to go full gold rush and devalue the price of gold in Mist, hurting their overall economy even as the Wakahisa enrich themselves. It's just making a shiny metal, after all, not producing value.

By rights, our gemstones would contain a similar worry. The value of a ruby can drop without limit as the supply increases, and if we went full ruby rush we could crash that market into the ground. It wouldn't be quite as bad because ryo aren't made of rubies, but it's still not welcome. This is why coming to Asuma with it is such a good play: the economic think tank can decide how much is too much, and no ruby rush will ever happen. The markets will change but not crash, and Leaf will not suffer.

The iron markets are in an even better position than the gemstone market, also. The value of iron is in its practicality, not its rarity, so an iron rush provides an objective quality of life increase to everyone in Leaf even as it crashes the iron markets. Unlike gold, Leaf's economy is not built on the expectation that iron will be scarce. Unlike gold or gemstones, there is reason to actively want tons more iron in the ecosystem. It should still be handled with care, but it's certainly no gold rush.
 
Is the you referring to Hazou, or Ino here? Stopped what exactly? It's not clear.
I think it's fairly clear that it's a reference to Hazo and his part in the cycle of hatred. When Vel checked it, he didn't flag this as difficult to parse, at least.
Same here, is the you Ino or Hazou? I assume the cycle of hatred is the cycle, but it could be clearer.
I mean...Ino isn't part of any cycle of hatred?

Eh, it's easy enough to fix these by making minor changes without impacting wordcount. Check the plan out - it's been updated.
Reconciling what exactly?
I'm talking about reconciling with the Hagoromo and the 'reconciliation' heading in the Asuma conversation below.
I'm wondering if Hazou should suggest trying to build ties with the younger generation of Hagoromo. Ritsuo is never going to be a fan, but we've had good luck with the game nights and the Hyuuga.
If all the younger Hags are bootneck conservatives, I don't want anything to do with them. Maybe it's the middle-aged people who are chill. We specifically ask 'are there more flexible Hagoromo' and Asuma will point us their way, hopefully.

Did we have luck with game nights with the Hyuuga, generally? Or just Neji?

Good news is that board games transcend generations.
Also, the Hags have all the Sage lore in Leaf, that could be a good bonding point. We have some interesting tidbits from Dog and the other Seventh Path Clans.
I think what you mean is, 'if there is Sage-related Lore in Leaf, then the Hagoromo are likely to have the largest quantity of it which is accessible to outsiders'. I expect that the Nara are the actual repository but that's clan secret shit.

The Hags are mostly (AFAIK) about the Will of Fire and Harashima/Tobirama, as opposed to the Sage.

Do we have citations supporting the idea that the Hags have Sage lore?
 
The fact that there isn't a strong motive to go after Akane outside of EM nukes. So either someone in leaf planned the op or someone leaked EM.
Well, they still may want Hazou's seals since he's a world famous sealmaster now

Or since she knows shadow clone but honestly her bingo book entry was wildly inaccurate last time we saw it so I'm not sure how known that is. I think it was brought up but eh
 
You know, if I was feeling particularly canon-brained right now, I'd be thinking of ROOT.

How would Danzo know that Akane is a key target? Who knows, it's Danzo. How would have have maintained his organization through multiple regimes and his official death? Who knows, it's Danzo. Why wouldn't he have taken other actions to ROOT's advantage that would be visible within the narrative to someone who knows to look for it? Who knows, it's Danzo.

But just on priors, if I was feeling canon-brained and you told me that a Leaf-nin was ambushed close to Leaf under suspicious circumstances, 100% I'd snap judgement blame Danzo.
 
The fact that there isn't a strong motive to go after Akane outside of EM nukes. So either someone in leaf planned the op or someone leaked EM.
Akane knew shadow clone and had the full Gōketsu sealing loadout, which I admit doesn't seem to make her an especially compelling target compared to any number of other leaf ninja. More plausibly, the enemy was planning to capture her and use her as a hostage against Hazō.
 
@FaintlySorcerous
If I may ask, could you turn "bring samples" -> "bring many impressive samples" or something along those lines. I'm really looking forward to him dropping a diamond stone as big as Asuma on the floor (if possible without damage), a pile of gold bars, etc and watching his jaw drop.

Also, could we let Asuma suggest limiting production? I really don't want to limit how much industrially useful stuff we make.
 
Aren't they his direct descendants?
Half the clans in the EN claim to be his descendents. We should take them all equally seriously. Which is to say, not at all.

Do we have citations supporting the idea that the Hags have Sage lore?

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Found a citation in Discord. Not about the Sage specifically, but in general lore is something handled by the Hagoromo.
 
If I may ask, could you turn "bring samples" -> "bring many impressive samples" or something along those lines. I'm really looking forward to him dropping a diamond stone as big as Asuma on the floor (if possible without damage), a pile of gold bars, etc and watching his jaw drop.
Finding tell extra words would be hard and while this might be funny, if shock and awe is the way to go, I expect Mari to recommend it.

This is going to be mind-blowing for Asuma as-is.
Also, could we let Asuma suggest limiting production? I really don't want to limit how much industrially useful stuff we make.
We're discussing it internally, not mentioning it to him. More to the point, failing to mention obvious stuff just makes us look stupid, either in having failed to think of it or thinking he's so dumb that he won't notice.

Better to look sharp and willing. We want to work with the man long-term.

I legitimately wouldn't be surprised to find that we're among the ten people he trusts most in Leaf. Let's keep that rolling.
 
Just a quick little musing about sealing speed and prep days, mostly confirming what we already know:

Adding one prep day to a normal SSA cycle turns it from a 3-day cycle to a 4-day cycle. This means that your speed (rolls/day speed) is 3/4 of what it once was. This means that in order to break even the prep day must make you 4/3 as fast.

In other words, the +2 from the prep day must be equal to at least 1/3 of the total progress that cycle, which means a prep day breaks even on speed when you (on expectation) beat the sealing TN by no more than 6. Remember that we're talking points here, not shifts: in terms of shifts, one prep day is only worth it if you're getting no more than two shifts per roll.

At our levels, this means the seal must be extremely hard. At eff 74 Sealing this threshold corresponds to a TN of 68, a very difficult seal indeed. It also means that in a situation where a prep day is worth it, we would risk sealing failure if we do not reroll -9/-12 rolls.

(Incidentally, going by the unveiled inner workings of sealing, we can expect that a TN 68 seal with no veterancy to reduce its Complexity will need 68 shifts to complete. Thus, winning by only two shifts on such a seal would produce the post-research Hazou feedback of "Hazou made barely any progress on the seal" as we would have only completed 1/34 of the progress bar.)

Two prep days would turn a 3-day cycle into a 5-day cycle, requiring you go 5/3 as fast to break even. The +4 from prep would need to be equal to 2/3 of the total progress that cycle, also placing the threshold at 6-over-TN.

Three prep days is a 6-day cycle and 6/3 as fast. The +6 bonus would need to equal 3/3 of the total progress that cycle, again landing at 6-over-TN. At this point, the pattern is clear.

This does not mean, to be clear, that more prep days doesn't change anything generally. It just means that at 6-over-TN, the equation completely balances out no matter how many prep days you add. It means that even if we weren't already doing prep days for the sake of safety, they would be worth it for the sake of speed. (Or at least, would become worth it at TN 69+)

It should also be noted that prep days also affect Calligraphy, which doesn't benefit from speed at all but benefits more in terms of safety, especially since the callig TN can be very swingy. I am confident saying that by the time prep days stop being slow, it will have long since become worth it to go full prep days just to pad the calligraphy roll.

To close, I also wanna ask how this looks for non-SSA sealmasters. One day of prep turns a 1-day cycle into a 2-day cycle, requiring you go twice as fast to break even. The +2 from prep would need to be equal to the total progress that cycle, breaking even at 2-over-TN. This also generalizes out, and suggests that Kagome's equilibrium point (not that he would ever do any project without full prep days) is only four points away from Hazou's despite Hazou's base cycle being three times Kagome's in length. Of course, the same stipulation applies that by this point you'd already be going full-prep to pad your calligraphy, so in the end it doesn't change much.

But still, kinda neat!
 
Due to illness, I lack the spoons needed to properly update my plan. I'll take suggestions if anyone has it, but failing that I'm going to vote for the "tell Asuma everything plan," assuming there is one.

Apologies to the QMs who I rushed for answers that were, apparently, unnecessary.
 
[X] Action Plan: Doing it again, less sealing, no scroll
[x] Noburi Training Plan: Medknow
[x] Kei Training Plan: Frozen Skein
[X] Action Plan: Doing it again
[X] Action Plan: Emergency Clan Meeting
 
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