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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Oleg Shilov said:
Dwarves are people with a soul of stone. It's hard for them to change.
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I've seem this same excuse as to why Snorri shouldn't be potentially open to find love or something the like again. And yet those same people are overwhelmingly happy to have him change on pretty much everything else, you'd just have to look at the whole Academy vote and how fuckin' close to OOC that was was him to go full in on the Radical in one go as an example. So no. That a bullshit excuse, if Snorri can go from a long time moderate to full on Radical so quickly instead of the continued gradual change that we've been seeing then he can also find himself open to finding someone again.

Anyway..

[X] [Line:] Being forced. Do you have it in you to open your heart again? Maybe. It may never come to pass and you may never actually meet anyone who you would even consider being romantic with, but you wouldn't dismiss the idea if it ever did happen.

Should be interesting.

[X] [Support:] Partially Support the proposal

we really ashouldn't overextend over such a large area do quickly, let it gradually occur. There are just too many things that could go wrong with so many smaller Holds with little population all over the place.

[X] The Vanguard. Where you're arguably your most effective. Also where Vragni has been putting himself for several decades now. Is it worth the potential headache?

That's where we are most useful. Why the hell wouldn't Snorri go there? Because some dude he barely cares about could maybe bitch about it? Since when would he care about that? Not to mention, I can honestly see those top getting along quite well while smashing some heads together.
 
RagnvarOdinson said:
I've seem this same excuse as to why Snorri shouldn't be potentially open to find love or something the like again.
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Snorri hasn't changed much since the beginning of the quest. He was inclined to change everything around him for the sake of the gnome society and had a reputation for being almost a radical.And for the sake of these changes, he went north. However, he himself practically did not change. It seems to me that Snorri should not be considered unhappy because of the current state of affairs. He is quite a healthy and productive member of the Dwarf society. Yes, he is sad for his wife, but this sadness does not prevent him from living. In addition, he swore vows to his wife and with the attitude of the dwarves to oaths, as well as Snorri's obsession with work, it seems strange to me that romantic thoughts appear in his head.
 
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soulcake said:
"If they demand I be wed I suppose. It is expected of me to sire heirs, but that opportunity has passed and now I have an heir anyway. As for the cost? I haven't the faintest clue. It's not something I've considered."
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Get the bois and bards quick! The waifu arc commeeeess!

soulcake said:
"I offer you my congratulations," Vragni says, "To have the chance to work with one's betters is a rare opportunity that ought not to be wasted."

So that's how it'll be.
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And the crap throwdown commences! Well, at least it didn't devolve into a slugfest- but that's a given looking back at the circumstances.

soulcake said:
If Karstah were being totally honest she would admit that Vragni poured a great deal of resources into his apprentices' education and wellbeing, maybe even more than Master Snorri.
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If he wasn't so antagonistic with Snorri- and so entrenchingly traditional, he'll make a great teacher in the Khazagar.

Then again, give the dwarf a few centuries with more beardlings and less runeing will probably see a Principal Vragni in his School of No Snorring.

[X] [Line:] Being forced. Do you have it in you to open your heart again? Maybe. It may never come to pass and you may never actually meet anyone who you would even consider being romantic with, but you wouldn't dismiss the idea if it ever did happen.

Go forth and multiply Snorri!

[X] [Support:] Partially Support the proposal.

Give the lass space to grow in her own merit… instead of making it rain then drown her in Snorri Sugah-daddy Funding.

Plus, ease up spending those favours to sooner reach the next Snorri Mindbreaker project!

[X] The Statue. You're fairly sure that being around the big Rune statue with your equipment will only improve its capabilities.

Notice me more Papa Grungni!

[X] Brynna has been meaning to ask about the eye.

It's a date.

But I am curious about the eye meself.

[X] A messenger from Kraka Krum, bearing a letter with the seal of Ogra Wardmaker.

We're looking at some stone wards ourselves, so… very useful.

[X] A band of Runesmiths muttering to each other at levels they think are quiet.

BEARDLINGS!
 
[X] [Line:] Being forced.

I see a fair number of folks voting for the other option based on what they think would be "In Character" for Snorri. As I'm totally not ranting about, I think they are dead wrong.

This is Snorri Klausson - the Dawi whose political stance on EVERYTHING consists entirely of "Is it the best option, in so far as is possible, for the Karaz Ankor?" The Dawi who accepted a foundling not just as his apprentice, but as his Heir, purely on the basis that she deserved better than to be sidelined - even when it became clear that she was essentially hoping to be his daughter, and he had literally no idea what that entailed to the point he was scared he couldn't do it right. The Dawi who is risking beard-shaving levels of dishonor and worse for the sake of doing something new - building a Runehall for the sake of spreading runelore, which in and of itself is an eyebrow-to-hairline concept.

The Dawi who sacrificed the armament HIS WIFE made for him because he knew she would be pissed if he threw away increased chances of survival for the sake of wallowing in old wounds.

The idea that he would NEVER choose to be married again because such an action is not "in character" is a Grudge-worthy insult to his loyalty, his compassion, his hope for a better future, and his strength of will.

I dislike votes based on "in character" on a more abstract level as well, but I don't have the words for it right now.
 
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[X] [Line:] Being forced. Do you have it in you to open your heart again? Maybe. It may never come to pass and you may never actually meet anyone who you would even consider being romantic with, but you wouldn't dismiss the idea if it ever did happen.
 
CanYouMeme said:
[X] [Line:] Being forced.

I see a fair number of folks voting for the other option based on what they think would be "In Character" for Snorri. As I'm totally not ranting about, I think they are dead wrong.

This is Snorri Klausson - the Dawi whose political stance on EVERYTHING consists entirely of "Is it the best option, in so far as is possible, for the Karaz Ankor?" The Dawi who accepted a foundling not just as his apprentice, but as his Heir, purely on the basis that she deserved better than to be sidelined - even when it became clear that she was essentially hoping to be his daughter, and he had literally no idea what that entailed to the point he was scared he couldn't do it right. The Dawi who is risking beard-shaving levels of dishonor and worse for the sake of doing something new - building a Runehall for the sake of spreading runelore, which in and of itself is an eyebrow-to-hairline concept.

The Dawi who sacrificed the armament HIS WIFE made for him because he knew she would be pissed if he threw away increased chances of survival for the sake of wallowing in old wounds.

The idea that he would NEVER choose to be married again because such an action is not "in character" is a Grudge-worthy insult to his loyalty, his compassion, his hope for a better future, and his strength of will.

I dislike votes based on "in character" on a more abstract level as well, but I don't have the words for it right now.
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That is pure sophistry and you know it. Or, if you do not, you should.

There are lines, hard lines, Snorri would never cross, whether or not it would ultimately benefit the rest of Dawidom.
So, if some consider his stance on remarrying to be one of those lines to be entirely in-character, you have no valid argument other than that you, personally, do not interpret it that way.
There is literally no evidence either way.

So, I disagree with you, and I consider myself equally liable to be in the right.

All that said, the entirety of my issue with the currently dominant stance is a simple case of even this mild of a case of prevarication and irresoluteness in this particular character just rubs me the wrong way. No more, no less.
I am disappointed that so many others hold for something that irks me, but I neither blame anyone nor consider them to be particularly in the wrong.
 
[X] The Vanguard. Where you're arguably your most effective. Also where Vragni has been putting himself for several decades now. Is it worth the potential headache?

[X] A messenger from Kraka Krum, bearing a letter with the seal of Ogra Wardmaker.
[X] Brynna has been meaning to ask about the eye.
[X] Let them come to you. Random Encounter.

[X] [Line:] In general. There has only been one, and with Valaya as your witness, there will only ever be one. From the moment you wed you belonged to each other, and not even death would have you break that oath.

[X] [Support:] Fully Support the proposal.
Freyda will almost assuredly get the Northern Kings to agree to her proposal and with good odds of them agreeing to ideas she considered outside her reach before. You'd be throwing your weight around in this manner, and it will show. With Silverbrand in Ornsmotek there's sure to be pushback there because of it. Gain +2 Standing with the Cult of Valaya. Unlocks Options. Cost: [70 Favours from Kraka Ornsmotek, 50 Favours from Kraka Dorden, and Ravnsvake, 30 Favours with Kraka Drakk]
 
[X] The Vanguard. Where you're arguably your most effective. Also where Vragni has been putting himself for several decades now. Is it worth the potential headache?

[X] A messenger from Kraka Krum, bearing a letter with the seal of Ogra Wardmaker.
[X] Brynna has been meaning to ask about the eye.
[X] Let them come to you. Random Encounter.

[X] [Support:] Fully Support the proposal.
 
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[X] The Vanguard. Where you're arguably your most effective. Also where Vragni has been putting himself for several decades now. Is it worth the potential headache?
[X] [Line:] In general. There has only been one, and with Valaya as your witness, there will only ever be one. From the moment you wed you belonged to each other, and not even death would have you break that oath.

Rune of Sharpening: When placed on a quiver or sheathe, it causes the contained item to sharpen to the limit of it's material, also mending any minor damage.
This Rune allows for Rangers to recover their crossbow bolts and reuse them more often, and not have to waste time sharpening them manually. It is useful in other situations however.

Rune of Echoing: Replicates sound it "hears". Can do so at higher or lower volume

Rune of True North: When activated, the Runed item will orientate itself to point directly northwards
A minor rune. Useful in some mechanisms, or when you're lost. (Rune of True South also available)
 
Dragonofelder said:
Rune of True North: When activated, the Runed item will orientate itself to point directly northwards
A minor rune. Useful in some mechanisms, or when you're lost. (Rune of True South also available)
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Stupid rule of pride :V

Ironically, Vragni's interpretation of the rule feels like such a waste of time.
How to advance runecraft without actually advancing runecraft.
 
IronFist said:
It doesn't.

But whoever invented it spent a bunch of time and money to create a new rune, when instead they could have used a rune of True North, and go in the opposite direction.

So, it stands to reason that it was made by a Conservative trying to get past the rune of pride.
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Oh, lel. My thought process was more "in some situations you would need something that points south instead" but yeah that's kinda dumb. I can see a Runepriest angrily replicating their work, but in-reverse
 
IronFist said:
Stupid rule of pride :V

Ironically, Vragni's interpretation of the rule feels like such a waste of time.
How to advance runecraft without actually advancing runecraft.
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Now interestingly, theres a theory going around that what Vragni did is basically exactly what Thungni had intended with the Rule of Pride.

The theory is basically, that if Runesmiths weren't stopped, they'd rarely every make a new combination of runes and instead would just about only ever copy versions of older masterworks as the acceptable and best runes and combos.
So the Rule of pride in this theory is to reframe the experimentation and development of new Runes as not antithetical to the already conservative Runesmith society and encourage a culture a bit more like the engineers guild.
A lot of Snorris rune development has come down to recognising patterns and similarities between different runes so a wider exploration like Vragni's gives him a better chance to be able to identify what differences cause what change and develop a descriptive theory of how to make a rune from scratch, which would be a vital step towards solving Durins Consternation if someone figures it out. Or he could stumble across a rune that is a genuine improvement.

It makes a lot more sense in the Golden age, when Runesmiths might expect to have a millenia to experiment, pass down their knowledge and are able to tap a master with the same experience, than it does in the modern WH era.
In general the Runesmiths rules more sense in the golden age. For example the rules of destroying runecraft rather than letting them fall into enemy hands, when there were far far fewer examples of lost knowledge or truely irreplaceable artefacts it was a lower cost, but the risk that enemies could develop their own version of runecraft was a plausible threat.
Dragonofelder said:
How does the rune break the Rule of Pride?
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They invented the Rune of True South to get around the rule.
 
[x] [Line:] Being forced. Do you have it in you to open your heart again? Maybe. It may never come to pass and you may never actually meet anyone who you would even consider being romantic with, but you wouldn't dismiss the idea if it ever did happen.
[x] [Support:] Partially Support the proposal.
[x] The Statue.
 
If it's an option, it's in character. I haven't voted because I'm fine with it either way (as long as the thread doesn't devolving into pure shipping crap constantly), but yeah in character or not doesn't factor in here. If you can vote it, it's in character.
 
[X] [Line:] Being forced. Do you have it in you to open your heart again? Maybe. It may never come to pass and you may never actually meet anyone who you would even consider being romantic with, but you wouldn't dismiss the idea if it ever did happen.

still deciding on the rest, but I really want my opinion known on this in case I cant get back to the tread before vote close.
 
The vote won't probably end till Wednesday, most of @soulcake's voting periods tend to last about two days or so. So, you've got time to decide. Personally, I'm for all-out colonizing, because, in all honesty outside of preventing this again and keeping a closer eye on any of the Norscans coming, we don't need to do anything for it besides at most a retainer action. And, as soul himself said, it's okay for us to have other people have them own favors from us. It's not the end of the world, and we can easily repay it when the time comes.
 
yannoshka said:
That is pure sophistry and you know it. Or, if you do not, you should.

There are lines, hard lines, Snorri would never cross, whether or not it would ultimately benefit the rest of Dawidom.
So, if some consider his stance on remarrying to be one of those lines to be entirely in-character, you have no valid argument other than that you, personally, do not interpret it that way.
There is literally no evidence either way.
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You got exactly one thing in that response right. There are hard lines that Snorri would never cross, regardless of what we questors vote for.

You got the rest wrong and fucked your entire argument by stating there is no evidence for an objective position one way or another. The stuff I described are things that actually happened.

Props to you for recognizing that us questors are not the character we vote on. Shame on you trying to turn that into a logically false rhetorical knife where thst difference between questor and character somehow means there is no possibility whatsoever of a person's interpretation matching objective reality. The previously voted for and written elements of the quest, especially where the QM takes time to write out what Snorri's thinking and feeling, are not infinitely malleable just because two or more people disagree on their implications.
 
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[X] [Support:] Partially Support the proposal.

Going negative into favors is just asking for a 5 action research turn to get exploded by surprise requests.

Dark as Silver said:
They invented the Rune of True South to get around the rule.
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Then they'd invent the rune of True East and rune of True West to get around it for the next two compasses. Then the Rune of True North and South and Rune of True East and West and rune of True 89 degrees and turn the knob a little and so on and take a century to make all the different minor runes.

Snorri meanwhile just gets a 10 part research chain that ends with the Rune of Compass and Master Rune of GPS and spams it everywhere.
 
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