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PLAYERS - Known Seals and Runes

NB: Some of this was brought in from the old rules and needs to be converted, e.g. ‘classes’ of success. List of Seals Hazō Can Make Activation Relay Seal Air Dome Alarm Banshee Slayer (aka Earmuff Seal) Big Bubble Casino Seal Chakdar, v1.0 Chakdar, v2.0 Chakrascope Chime Seals (Nara Instruction...
Ahh, air canister, it was Usamatsu's I was thinking of for chemistry experimentation, thanks.
 
Can we also vote in a therapeutic Technique Hacking project for Mari to do?
Example: "[-] Mari's TH: Longer, less intense Sunny Days genjutsu"
 
If memory serves it was tested by having rats breathe the air it makes until the sealmaster found a configuration where they didn't die, so really nobody has any clue what chemistry's going on there.
There's some value for "poison" that's being detected and selectively stored, based on the known seals description, which is really interesting. I can think of a couple possibilities.
  1. The seal only releases nitrogen and oxygen gases.
  2. The seal can identify substances not compatible with life.
  3. The seal is a dimensional rip that trades gas A to Somewhere Else and comes back with the same volume of gas B which is breathable.
We can distinguish 1 from 2 by determining if it'll scrub out CO2 - if it doesn't then rats will eventually suffocate. 3 is...more challenging.
 
There's some value for "poison" that's being detected and selectively stored, based on the known seals description, which is really interesting. I can think of a couple possibilities.
  1. The seal only releases nitrogen and oxygen gases.
  2. The seal can identify substances not compatible with life.
  3. The seal is a dimensional rip that trades gas A to Somewhere Else and comes back with the same volume of gas B which is breathable.
We can distinguish 1 from 2 by determining if it'll scrub out CO2 - if it doesn't then rats will eventually suffocate. 3 is...more challenging.
Pretty sure if the seal takes in too much 'poison' it explodes and releases everything it was holding, which is how Usamatsu died. So unless Somewhere Else has a limited volume, it's probably not option 3.
 
Mari doesn't know about FOOM, right?

I believe she was the one we originally talked to about it when we thought of it.

The previous iteration of the SOP hadn't been factoring in light overcharging (safe up to 5% of total capacity), and so Keiko and Akane could only safely support 4 and 5 clones per cast respectively.

In response to discussion about this on discord, I went and dug into the math in more detail and created a generalized formula for the maximum clones you can support with light overcharging, and yeah with that factored in (and thus the IC assumption that Keiko and Akane are meeting up with Noburi every day to get overcharged (which wouldn't be any more of a problem than usual for Keiko given that she was already assumed to be contacting him daily to recharge post-cast enough to support using YTJ for that day) it turns out that Keiko can do 5 clones in one cast and Akane can do 6, which means that they can level Resolve some more before having to push for SC 40.

I've added the results of my calculations to the SOP page, but I'll leave it ambiguous whether we go with or without overcharging until we hold a vote on it next cycle.

edit: after a little more discussion on discord, it turns out that with the koi apparently harvestable for the next six weeks until they start breeding, if we put all of Keiko and Akane's XP into Resolve (as opposed to getting a head-start on SC 40 to compensate for having to breed koi) then Keiko will be able to support 7 clones and Akane will be able to support 6. Chakra-wise, Keiko can only get 7 clones by using two casts, which will take about 200 CP worth of recharging from koi, while Akane can support 6 if she safely overcharges or if she recasts, which would take about 150 CP of recarghing. I'm led to believe that we can sustain Keiko's recharge needs with 2 chakra harvests a day (they regen in 8-10 hours so this is definitely possible) but that we cannot sustain Akane's recharge needs at the same time.

This means that the way to maximize XP gains right here and now while the koi are active is to send all of Keiko and Akane's XP into Resolve and then start lightly overcharging Akane so she can do 6 clones and then also giving Keiko a recharge so she can do 2 casts for 7 clones total. Whether this is more optimal overall is uncertain, because after six weeks the koi harvest will stop so they can breed and then Keiko will be limited to light overcharging again until SC 40, so I'll figure out the math on that and report back.

edit 2: Figured out the math for whether or not it's more optimal to put our current XP to higher Resolve to take advantage of the temporary koi refills. Note that this only affects Keiko, as Akane's current stored XP don't bring her to the point where she would need koi recharging. Also note that overcharging is assumed in this model.

There are two competing paths to compare here:
  1. 5-Keiko, who only levels to make use of overcharging and then pushes for SC 40, and then enough Resolve to handle 7 clones.
  2. 7-Keiko, who gets enough Resolve for 7 clones now to take advantage of the koi, and then pushes for SC 40 afterwards.
5-Keiko needs 123 more XP to get to SC 40, then 87 XP to get to 6-clone Resolve, then 96 XP to get to 7-clone Resolve. The first two segments (210 XP together) are done at 5 clones (x1.5) and the last segment (96 XP) is done at 6 clones (x1.6). Assuming flat 4 XP base (sloppy, I know, but good enough for our purposes), she finishes in (210/6) + (96/6.4) = 50 days.

7-Keiko needs 306 XP to hit SC 40 after dumping so much into Resolve, but the first 42 days of it are at 7 clones (x1.7 = 6.8) and the rest is at 5 clones (x1.5 = 6). 42 days of 6.8 XP is 285.6 XP, leaving 20.4 XP to be done at 5 clones, taking another (20.4/6) = 3.4 days for a total duration of 45.4 days.

Therefore, it is over half a week faster to take advantage of the koi while it's around than it is to have SC 40 earlier. The results here are somewhat sensitive to the base XP rate (in the sense that if the base XP rate was low enough, 5-Keiko would pull ahead because the advantage of 42 days of boost becomes negligible) but for the XP rates we're working with it should still be solidly in favor of 7-Keiko.

tl;dr it's optimal to dump all Keiko's XP into Resolve 33 and then give her daily recharges from the koi until they start breeding.

I realize the training plans are sprinting past and that this is hard to account for, but has there been any consideration for if/when Noburi or Akane are on missions, rebuilding a town or otherwise busy? Or are we just assuming top-up happens first thing in the morning and that any event major enough to change status quo will come in an update that we'll deal with then?

All that, just to establish what was left of me. It gave Mari the will and the way she needed to create her finest jutsu to date: The Truth Found in the Fog.

This is just a very nice moment. Also, seems a good time to thank you for an excellent Omake! Very much enjoyed!
Also, anyone read Eragon? Hazou being remade and knowing himself as a result here kind of reminds me of know your true name in that series.

Two responses:

1. Bravissimo!

2. Goddammit, you used up all the punching!

Wait, is punching here like the speed force in DC? It all draws from the same place, and there's a set amount, but it's insane and broken? Huh, maybe that was Guy's secret- opening the gates is really just fully embracing the PUNCH FORCE.

was a little restless." It had been a highlights book: The Sunset Racer, Hidan's butchery of the village, and the never-actually-seen deaths of Jiraiya and Shinji...who for some reason had died fighting back to back against swarms of Zabuzas with whirling red eyes and an army of demons. And then Jiraiya, Shinji, and Zabuza melded together into a six-armed, six-eyed monstrosity that towered into the sky and laughed down at Hazō, telling him how worthless he was and unworthy to wield the power he had been given.

WELL, this is really unfortunate for Hazou as a character. But it portents well when looked through the lens of "really bad case of being a jonin".

Also, a nice reminder that despite keeping it mostly together, Hazou has been through a fairly traumatic experience, in a world where 'trauma' is the default existence. Poor kid.

I don't think they will. They seem to really mean all this stuff. I think...I think that studying like this is honoring the clan. It seems to be what Lord Gōketsu wants. If it isn't, why did he make the school and insist we all go?"

I really like that were Actually getting through to civilians. It may not seem like much, but this is SUCH a big jump compared to the villagers that we talking in reverence of the guy who was killing them all. Thinking "Hazou is strange but that isn't a good thing, but I'm curious what he's doing" is the sort of intellectual curiosity and honesty I'm very much here for (metaphorically, my existence is not purely digital within this forum, though occasionally I lurk enough to feel otherwise).

Doesn't the Merchant council exist to prevent this from happening?

Remind me, is this the same Council that Mari has been actively corrupting and lobbying for the past year?

Yup, gauntlet thrown. Time for Hazou to start training, this challenge cannot go unanswered!

I don't disagree, but considering we're in the middle of starting FOOM, I don't think that's happening in the immediate future. Though, I do think we should make a generalized priority list of what we will want to level, and how important it is to do in the near future.

What we should level is Hozuki Mantle, because it gives a penalty to athletics until level 30.

Really? That's awesome. Enough people are saying wait that I won't push for it, but I'd definitely support a plan that gets HM (and medic skills) up next time.
 
This is just a very nice moment. Also, seems a good time to thank you for an excellent Omake! Very much enjoyed!
Also, anyone read Eragon? Hazou being remade and knowing himself as a result here kind of reminds me of know your true name in that series.

I've read the first book but I don't think I got to any of the true name stuff. Very funny coincidence though. Glad you enjoyed!

Wait, is punching here like the speed force in DC? It all draws from the same place, and there's a set amount, but it's insane and broken? Huh, maybe that was Guy's secret- opening the gates is really just fully embracing the PUNCH FORCE.

Well he did fade away much like Wally West getting absorbed into the Speed Force, so can it really be ruled out?

Remind me, is this the same Council that Mari has been actively corrupting and lobbying for the past year?

Yep, that's the one lol
 
Also, a nice reminder that despite keeping it mostly together, Hazou has been through a fairly traumatic experience, in a world where 'trauma' is the default existence. Poor kid.

Not to mention that this trauma "stacks" with Hazou's trauma from the Cold Stone Killer situation. I could foresee "a fatalistic determination to drag humanity, crude beasts that they are, to enlightenment --one way or another, they will be saved" as being a large portion of Hazou's jonin aura. I still think his compassion would flavor it a great deal (I've made posts about that, before), with maybe some undertones of Out, but I suppose it all depends on how Hazou-pilot's characterization changes going forward. It might be that Jonin Auras simply cannot be that complex --I'm pretty sure Jiraiya said something to the effect of a Jonin Aura being an expression of "I," rather than "I am [adjective]."

I don't disagree, but considering we're in the middle of starting FOOM, I don't think that's happening in the immediate future. Though, I do think we should make a generalized priority list of what we will want to level, and how important it is to do in the near future.

I think it's (vaguely) something to the effect of:
  1. Caligraphy (EJ's mentioned a dissatisfaction with where it currently is)
  2. Directly combat-applicable (athletics/taijutsu, or something)
  3. Seals
  4. Summoning/Jutsu
 
But, if you wish it then yes, you may walk beside me when I go to censure Cantelope.
You know the nominative determinism is getting stronger when your name is no longer reflective of future personality features or career choices but for the bare fact that your only scene 'on-screen' to the voices in Hazo's head revolves around being told you cant elope.
 
For Noburi I would strongly suggest Athletics to 40, else he can get gibbed by any chuunin with a ranged attack.

[X] Training Plan Noburi: Fun-damentals

Athletics to 40 [190 XP]
 
I think it's (vaguely) something to the effect of:
  1. Caligraphy (EJ's mentioned a dissatisfaction with where it currently is)
  2. Directly combat-applicable (athletics/taijutsu, or something)
  3. Seals
  4. Summoning/Jutsu

Chakra reserves would also be nice, considering that without Noburi, one chunin-level summon already uses up half of Hazou's reserves (not to mention Shadow Clone, etc)
 
So! I believe we are holding off on Noburi because there wasn't a clear consensus or direction for training. I understand that a lot of the discussion happens on discord, but I'm still going to try and brainstorm here. I think alertness, chakra reserves, Hozuki's mantle, medknow and/or examination all are worth talking about.

Noburi's alertness isn't very high, and we've seen that the high genin/low chunin range are all through the 30s, would be nice. Hozuki's mantle gets noticeably better by losing a malus at level 30, and makes Noburi more secure in a close scrap, which I like. Medknow seems like a thing we need to invest in, because he eventually needs the skills to back up the talk, and 12 isn't very high (same with med jutsu, but triage before treatment is my reasoning here). Examination is mostly on here to get a 1-9 skill to 10-19 for the columns.
Chakra reserves are twofold: first, it's just a matter of convenience and strategic asset, where the more Noburi holds, the less running around he has to do to top up (like, if he can top up 3 people for FOOM before needing to go drain the koi), and the better during an emergency (like when he had to refill Asuma during the collapse, and didn't really have much left for Naruto after). The other part is that as a Ninjutsu/summoner build, more chakra is always nice.


Not to mention that this trauma "stacks" with Hazou's trauma from the Cold Stone Killer situation. I could foresee "a fatalistic determination to drag humanity, crude beasts that they are, to enlightenment --one way or another, they will be saved" as being a large portion of Hazou's jonin aura. I still think his compassion would flavor it a great deal (I've made posts about that, before), with maybe some undertones of Out, but I suppose it all depends on how Hazou-pilot's characterization changes going forward. It might be that Jonin Auras simply cannot be that complex --I'm pretty sure Jiraiya said something to the effect of a Jonin Aura being an expression of "I," rather than "I am [adjective]."



I think it's (vaguely) something to the effect of:
  1. Caligraphy (EJ's mentioned a dissatisfaction with where it currently is)
  2. Directly combat-applicable (athletics/taijutsu, or something)
  3. Seals
  4. Summoning/Jutsu

It's funny you say that. My thoughts on Hazou's aura was along the vein of "A powerful, incomprehensible existence is trying to pull you off the ground and into the sky and freedom. You can be pulled along and join, and embraced by that support, or you can be pinned to the ground, crawling, knowing that this entity sees you for what you are and is DISAPPOINTED in you."


Anyway! I think in the past ~6 weeks I've heard various players, characters, and (subtly) QMs mention all of the following
Caligraphy; Taijutsu; sealing; Chakra Reserves; Deceit; Stealth; Combat jutsu; Resolve (for FOOM); and SC (for FOOM). I've definitely missed some.
I don't think it needs to be a vote or anything, but I want to do a straw poll of priorities. Let's say, top 5 in order. Also, let's assume Resolve and SC are above any other priorities unless someone thinks getting calligraphy right now is more important or something. So mine would be:

Hazou Training Wishlist
1) Calligraphy
2) Taijutsu
3) Chakra
4) Empathy
5) Alertness

Rationale: Calligraphy is stopping sealing; We need our best combat stat (and highest stat overall) above a 40; chakra capacity is useful; if we're not empathetic, who in this setting is; attacking before opponents is good.
 
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Hazou Training Wishlist
1) Calligraphy
2) Taijutsu
3) Chakra
4) Empathy
5) Alertness

Rationale: Calligraphy is stopping sealing; We need our best combat stat (and highest stat overall) above a 40; chakra capacity is useful; if we're not empathetic, who in this setting is; attacking before opponents is good.

Would it be better to bump up Deceit over Taijutsu? Doesn't Hazou's martial arts style Roki get a bonus from deceit? It's also much cheaper to bump his deceit right now than taijutsu. I'm not exactly sure what the bonus is, but depending, deceit could be a better choice because it is also useful as a social stat in addition to buffing his combat skill
 
Would it be better to bump up Deceit over Taijutsu? Doesn't Hazou's martial arts style Roki get a bonus from deceit? It's also much cheaper to bump his deceit right now than taijutsu. I'm not exactly sure what the bonus is, but depending, deceit could be a better choice because it is also useful as a social stat in addition to buffing his combat skill
My understanding is that leveling Deceit would only improve the chances of winning the Roki vs. enemy Deception roll, which doesn't directly increase the combat roll but only increases the chance the bonus is applied (e.g., if enemy has higher Deception).
 
My understanding is that leveling Deceit would only improve the chances of winning the Roki vs. enemy Deception roll, which doesn't directly increase the combat roll but only increases the chance the bonus is applied (e.g., if enemy has higher Deception).
In that case, my training wishlist would be:
1) Callig (can't remember if it's to 24 or 26 or 27, whatever it is)
2) Taijutsu 47
3) CR 30 (at least)
4) Back to FOOMing

The other stuff's important but imo it can wait for the detours

Narratively speaking, we have this saucy dog drama to finish up, whatever comes of the Mizuki plot thread, and a conversation with Mari about Ami.
Imo once these are done we should timeskip to the Koi breeding time where we can no longer use the Koi to FOOM, or Mari's birthday, whichever comes first. They're both in a few weeks, for convenience we can just say that they happen around the same time, in 4-6 weeks. (140-210 XP with 3.5/day as a base rate, btw)

Assuming that this current dog plot thread nets us some summons, I would like to pursue the Otter scroll for Akane within a few updates after Mari's birthday. During the Timeskip we can inform the rest of Goketsu of this and do any more research/prep/training we can offscreen, then set out.

Reasoning:
1: It'll (hopefully) be a fun & exciting arc to read and write
2: The sooner Akane becomes a summoner the more effective of a summoner she'll be
3: Other villages have started scouring for scrolls (well, even more than usual) since a few months ago. Wait too long and we may have to kill a Summoner to get her one.
4: WW4 might be about to break out and we won't get another chance for a while.
5: Another Summon Scroll for the Summon gods, praise be unto them

Reasons I would choose not to pursue this after Mari's birthday:
1: If Hazou still hasn't gained any summons by then
2: If the Mizuki thread is more pressing
3: If WW4 breaks out before that and Asuma would prefer we stay

People might still be scared of the mission even by then but at the very least we can start actually floating the idea rather than wistfully considering it, and refine a plan of action (IE who we're sending, how much time we're willing to spend, OPSEC and SOP, etc)
 
I realize the training plans are sprinting past and that this is hard to account for, but has there been any consideration for if/when Noburi or Akane are on missions, rebuilding a town or otherwise busy? Or are we just assuming top-up happens first thing in the morning and that any event major enough to change status quo will come in an update that we'll deal with then?
Yeah, uh, there's been talk about refilling via 7Path when necessary and possible, but we haven't hammered out anything comprehensive yet.
 
Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen! There is an easy solution here you're not seeing.

We just have to research economics related seals. We might discover a way to transmute iron to gold, or die in a horrible sealing accident, or annoy the watchers enough that they just grue mathematics*, or even all of the above! In any case, no more debt.

As an aside, now that I think about transmutation and missing protons, any technique or seal that gives off a blue glow might be a radiation hazard. Maybe the real mark of death was the grays we got along the way.

How many sieverts can a shadow clone take before popping?


Iiiiiiiinteresting.

So we could make Youthenizers that we could slap onto a wall and have blast out the other side?

Y'know, considering our chat with Hinata a little while back about how, intentional or not, making the anti-Byakugan seals public was a hostile action to them, providing them with a method of wallbanging that takes max advantage of the Byakugan could be a nice way to mend fences if we wanted to, as a show of unity in defense of Leaf and all that.

Here's what we do. We combine directional explosive seals with the byuukagan-blocking seals to automatically blast anybody who triggers the latter while in range, then buy the compound available next to the Hyuuga.

Hazou: "Oops."

Asuma: *Facepalm*


Also pinging @Velorien @OliWhail What's Hazou's (and/or Kagome's) opinion of stretching the output site from the seal (ala the quote)?

Again, Tenten has demonstrated custom remote storage seals precise enough to shift armament mid-combat.


E: and that asking Mari to sanity check our economics ideas is still going to expose us to major potential problems.

*Screaming In Nara*

Seriously, run anything like this by Keiko.


Yup.

WDB is an excellent crowd-clearing attack.

HM + WW is just straight up better in a white-room fight sense, assuming you have the action economy to spend.

We need to get Noburi a water element defensive jutsu that can be cast offturn with a supplemental, and level *that* as well, so that he can truly become ~mostly unstoppable.

...is there any theoretical reason that he can't keep koi in a barrel? On the seventh path?


honored ancestors in the pure land almighty am i itching to do some real chemistry with that thing

You.

I like you.



*shrug*
The QMs said that we had enough money to do anything short of buying our own country, and the plan included a Mari-sanity check (who's been suberting the Leaf economy as an idle pastime).

Besides, not much we can do about it now. The time to voice concerns would've been a few days ago, during the planning phase. If this does make a bad turn, then it'll happen, and all we can do is try to come up with money-quests (Mari and Salterns aside, Lalokein has a few ideas, from what I understand).
[X] Training Hazou: FOOM

Perhaps our next plan should start with checking with Gaku that we have enough liquidate-able assets to survive if people do try to cash in all the scrip at once? And then maybe moving Lailoken's land clearing plan up to the step where we start clearing land with profit in mind?
Who?
 
...is there any theoretical reason that he can't keep koi in a barrel? On the seventh path?

The lack of ability to reverse summon living things that aren't the summoner comes to mind. It hasn't been tried with the fish, but also they're too valuable to try that on until we have enough that enough time had passed to put us 3 crises and two "wait, THIS is the most important stat"s later.
 
The QMs said that we had enough money to do anything short of buying our own country, and the plan included a Mari-sanity check (who's been suberting the Leaf economy as an idle pastime).
To be clear, that was a figurative statement. We didn't literally mean "You can do anything except this one thing", we meant "You are extremely rich and we're not going to bother thinking about money again unless you try something truly excessive."

Again, Tenten has demonstrated custom remote storage seals precise enough to shift armament mid-combat.
In MfD? I know there was one mention of something related to her and seals but I can't remember it.
 
To be clear, that was a figurative statement. We didn't literally mean "You can do anything except this one thing", we meant "You are extremely rich and we're not going to bother thinking about money again unless you try something truly excessive."
Oh... [re-calibrating mental picture of Goketsu finances]
Oh
.
...Well, it's a good thing the leading plan nixes the "erase debt" plan.
 
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