RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

soulcake · Apr 21, 2020

A friendly reminder to new questers to read the Informational threadmarks and FAQ specifically before asking a question. Links below:

Frequently Asked Questions
Here is the Detailed Rune List
Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)

Alratan · Apr 14, 2020

Something else we might want to trial on a golem is a Rune of Lightfoot to avoid the problem of sinking into the ground.

I'd also quite like to investigate what Runes of Speed and Striking do on a golem rather than a weapon. Depending on what they do they more be more useful there while having something like a Rune of Might on a weapon.

BungieONI · Apr 14, 2020

Alratan said:
Something else we might want to trial on a golem is a Rune of Lightfoot to avoid the problem of sinking into the ground.

I'd also quite like to investigate what Runes of Speed and Striking do on a golem rather than a weapon. Depending on what they do they more be more useful there while having something like a Rune of Might on a weapon.

We don't need to test Lightfoot with a Gronti. We can just make a talisman for that, it achieves its effect when it was on a sack of items. Nor do we even know for sure what the Lightfoot rune does in detail.

Plus, weight problems only come up when the final project is Bloodthirster sized which I am hedging my bets on not happening.

UlseDovThur said:
I would personally recommend that we make Ymir as large as we possibly can. Aka Bloodthirster size. While Soulcake did say that that would put an actually sizable dent in Snorri's fortune I believe it to be completely worth it. And I think Snorri would as well. Ymir is most likely going to be one of, if not the, Greatest thing Snorri will ever make so its only appropriate that he/we pour everything he/we can into it.

Also, as a note we will probably have even more Favor to spend by then and one of the primary uses of Favor is to use it to acquire material so I really don't see the amount of Gromril we would need as being any kind of true issue.

Here's the consideration I'm operating under: It is not going to be particularly easy to sell to folks to make one that big. I'd like it to be that big, but if people are turned off like I expect by the sheer expense and weight issues then I'm not going to push for it. If they want to do really big when the time comes, then we'll do it really big. But for now I'm going to assume that isn't what will happen. Hedging my bets and all that.

Alratan · Apr 14, 2020

BungieONI said:
Plus, weight problems only come up when the final project is Bloodthirster sized which I am hedging my bets on not happening.

hmm. I assume Soulcake has confirmed that somewhere, as otherwise a dwarf sized metal statue would just sink in snow or mud pretty much all the time, and in Norsca we should expect there to be a lot of snow in the winters and mud in lots of places in the summers if we're campaigning away from bare rock.

Abhishekam · Apr 14, 2020

Talisman boots with a Master Rune of Passage based combo would fix that wouldnt it?

Nevertheless let's switch from the Golem thing for now.

UlseDovThur · Apr 14, 2020

BungieONI said:
Here's the consideration I'm operating under: It is not going to be particularly easy to sell to folks to make one that big. I'd like it to be that big, but if people are turned off like I expect by the sheer expense and weight issues then I'm not going to push for it. If they want to do really big when the time comes, then we'll do it really big. But for now I'm going to assume that isn't what will happen. Hedging my bets and all that.

Eh, I would say that it's more people being impatient right now that puts them off the idea of putting even more work into it when we could just make it small. I think once we actually get to the point where we're about to actually start building it people will be more willing to go big with it as they won't also be metaphorically staring at all of the other stuff we have to do before we get to that point like all of the research and such.

Also, as a Rune combo I'm personally interested in Master Rune of Animation/Waking, Rune of Animation/Waking, Rune of Animation/Waking. Someone suggested this earlier but I forget who.

I think this combo will increase the Golems relative Dexterity and Agility as it puts more power into giving it the ability to move. I think this would be a good combo for Ymir as we are already planning on making it completely out of Gromril, plating it in Adamant, and then clading it in yet more Adamant so if there is one thing that it won't have to worry about is it's durability.

BungieONI · Apr 14, 2020

Alratan said:
hmm. I assume Soulcake has confirmed that somewhere, as otherwise a dwarf sized metal statue would just sink in snow or mud pretty much all the time, and in Norsca we should expect there to be a lot of snow in the winters and mud in lots of places in the summers if we're campaigning away from bare rock.

Yes. He mentioned that weight starts being an issue at bloodthirster scale. That means its not really a concern at Ogre sized.

soulcake said:
Oh yeah and at that scale yes weight would be start to be an issue in certain cases.

Abhishek M said:
Talisman boots with a Master Rune of Passage based combo would fix that wouldnt it?

Nevertheless let's switch from the Golem thing for now.

That is the thought yeah. Or a belt buckle or something.

Anyway, since the Cloaks are going to be coming up we should talk about those some I think. We know Daemonward would be reliable both for saving them from dying and making them more killy because they are less likely to lose. What other ones have we considered? There's Eva's suggestion of Master Rune of Grungni, Rune of Valaya, Rune of Spellbreaking. But there's been more.

Thoughts on what we could put on them?

UlseDovThur said:
Also, as a Rune combo I'm personally interested in Master Rune of Animation/Waking, Rune of Animation/Waking, Rune of Animation/Waking. Someone suggested this earlier but I forget who.

Well that's a straightforward option at least. Something weird and interesting might happen if its used with the Greedy Heart.

I'm personally not that interested in it though since equipment is where the most increase in fighting ability is going to be had, just due to it being a Gronti and the inherent limits of not having a complex mind. The Miner for example was dexterous enough to receive a sheet of paper from Snorri when he sent it off to do its job back when he first made it, but its not smart in terms of complex plans. So if we have no tools with which to reliably gift Gronti with the ability to understand and perform complex plans, our only recourse is weapons and talismans and banners and so on.

E: But anyway, enough Gronti talk, I'm done with that for today.

avatar11792 · Apr 14, 2020

[X] Accept: Take on [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 1: The King of Ungor wants two cloaks? By Grungni you'll give him two cloaks! Damn finest cloaks anyone will ever see! Must be completed in four turns starting Turn 15.
- [X] Accept Amulet, Combo: Add Amulet to items in [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 1: Tell the king you'll take on the Amulet Request as well, what's one more task on the pile?

Abhishekam · Apr 14, 2020

BungieONI said:
Yes. He mentioned that weight starts being an issue at bloodthirster scale. That means its not really a concern at Ogre sized.

That is the thought yeah. Or a belt buckle or something.

Anyway, since the Cloaks are going to be coming up we should talk about those some I think. We know Daemonward would be reliable both for saving them from dying and making them more killy because they are less likely to lose. What other ones have we considered? There's Eva's suggestion of Master Rune of Grungni, Rune of Valaya, Rune of Spellbreaking. But there's been more.

Thoughts on what we could put on them?

Daemonward with Grungni instead of Valaya has been discussed I think.

UlseDovThur · Apr 14, 2020

BungieONI said:
That is the thought yeah. Or a belt buckle or something.

Anyway, since the Cloaks are going to be coming up we should talk about those some I think. We know Daemonward would be reliable both for saving them from dying and making them more killy because they are less likely to lose. What other ones have we considered? There's Eva's suggestion of Master Rune of Grungni, Rune of Valaya, Rune of Spellbreaking. But there's been more.

Thoughts on what we could put on them?

I'm not sure about the cloaks beyond the aforementioned Daemonward combo, but for the Armors I was thinking of throwing soulcake the Themes of "The King" and "The Heir".

BungieONI · Apr 14, 2020

Abhishek M said:
Daemonward with Grungni instead of Valaya has been discussed I think.

I vaguely recall something similar yeah. It could work as well, determination is definitely in theme with Grungni and so is sanctuary.

UlseDovThur said:
I'm not sure about the cloaks beyond the aforementioned Daemonward combo, but for the Armors I was thinking of throwing soulcake the Themes of "The King" and "The Heir".

Those could work, though we'd probably want to expand on them a little bit so he has more to work with.

IronFist · Apr 14, 2020

UlseDovThur said:
I would personally recommend that we make Ymir as large as we possibly can. Aka Bloodthirster size. While Soulcake did say that that would put an actually sizable dent in Snorri's fortune I believe it to be completely worth it. And I think Snorri would as well. Ymir is most likely going to be one of, if not the, Greatest thing Snorri will ever make so its only appropriate that he/we pour everything he/we can into it.

When thinking about size, Weight and Cost are not the only things to take into account.
I'm going to assume heightwise that Giant = 2xOgre = 3xDwarf. which is a rather conservative estimate for "Enormous", ogre sized being 12-15 feet and Giant 24 to 30 feet tall.
I think the sweet spot is at ogre sized because:
- Rune weapons at that size take 1 less action to produce, and if each piece is a request, we can complete it with 2 actions, rather than 3. Investing 3 actions at ogre scale could make us 2 pieces of equipment, as opposed to 1 with overflow for giant scale.
- Depending on how high the hold and underway are, the Giant's mobility would be pretty restricted within the hold. I don't think the Underway is that high either.
- Adamant is really hard to make, and even coating an Ogre sized golem is a stretch, imo.

I know the discussion topic has shifted by now, but I took the time to write this post and I am not going to throw it away

UlseDovThur · Apr 14, 2020

IronFist said:
When thinking about size, Weight and Cost are not the only things to take into account.
I'm going to assume heightwise that Giant = 2xOgre = 3xDwarf. which is a rather conservative estimate for "Enormous", ogre sized being 12-15 feet and Giant 24 to 30 feet tall.
I think the sweet spot is at ogre sized because:
- Rune weapons at that size take 1 less action to produce, and if each piece is a request, we can complete it with 2 actions, rather than 3. Investing 3 actions at ogre scale could make us 2 pieces of equipment, as opposed to 1 with overflow for giant scale.
- Depending on how high the hold and underway are, the Giant's mobility would be pretty restricted within the hold. I don't think the Underway is that high either.
- Adamant is really hard to make, and even coating an Ogre sized golem is a stretch.

I know the discussion topic has shifted by now, but I took the time to write this post and I am not going to throw it away

Personally I'm not concerned with the action cost here. Like I said this is something that we/Snorri should be willing to put our all in. Will it take longer? Yes. Will it be worth it? In my opinion, Yes.

As for maneuverability that won't be an issue. The underway is plenty big enough seeing as Bloodthtisters are usually around 10 meters and The Miner, The Gronti we made to dig out the Underway is 15 meters. Maneuverability in the underway wont be an issue.

If maneuverability in the Hold becomes an issue we're already pretty fucked as that means the enemy has breached all of our external defenses which, if that happens, that will already mean that Ymir will have already been defeated or rendered non-effective in some way.

As for the cost in Adamant, as I already said I'm not concerned with action cost or monitory cost.

Alratan · Apr 14, 2020

BungieONI said:
Anyway, since the Cloaks are going to be coming up we should talk about those some I think. We know Daemonward would be reliable both for saving them from dying and making them more killy because they are less likely to lose. What other ones have we considered? There's Eva's suggestion of Master Rune of Grungni, Rune of Valaya, Rune of Spellbreaking. But there's been more.

Thoughts on what we could put on them?

I think we should consider the Rune of Guarding, as we were commissioned to provide protection.

BungieONI · Apr 14, 2020

Alratan said:
I think we should consider the Rune of Guarding, as we were commissioned to provide protection.

A sensible choice. A Rune of Guarding, Rune of Warding, Rune of Preservation. These could work.

Alratan · Apr 14, 2020

BungieONI said:
A sensible choice. A Rune of Guarding, Rune of Warding, Rune of Preservation. These could work.

That's pretty similar to what I was thinking.

Or, depending on what the new trait we have does, a Rune of Hearth and Home. Although I think that's a shoe in for the amulet.

I've realised that a Master Rune of Grungi is pretty pointless at this point, as none of our enemies use ranged weapons...

bird yells · Apr 14, 2020

BungieONI said:
Anyway, since the Cloaks are going to be coming up we should talk about those some I think. We know Daemonward would be reliable both for saving them from dying and making them more killy because they are less likely to lose. What other ones have we considered? There's Eva's suggestion of Master Rune of Grungni, Rune of Valaya, Rune of Spellbreaking. But there's been more.

Thoughts on what we could put on them?

Well, there's probably a fairly sick suit of adamant armour on the docket for Otrek, eventually, yeah? I'm wondering if you couldn't consider his defences to be covered by that part of his kit and focus the cloak on enhancing his impact as a linebreaking shock troop. More specifically something that synergises with the flanking charge tactics he likes and lets him rout enemies more easily, so master rune of fear + rune of battle + rune of speed maybe? I could see replacing the speed rune with a rune of fury, too. If you're feeling super saucy you could even stick a rune of stone in there in the hopes of hitting some kind of avalanche or rockslide related combo.

Plus the fear rune would presumably stack with the trollspook effect Snorri's gear gets free gratis, which I think would make ole Otrek even more hilariously effective at breaking up a horde of trolls than he already is.

Alratan · Apr 14, 2020

bird yells said:
Well, there's probably a fairly sick suit of adamant armour on the docket for Otrek, eventually, yeah? I'm wondering if you couldn't consider his defences to be covered by that part of his kit and focus the cloak on enhancing his impact as a linebreaking shock troop. More specifically something that synergises with the flanking charge tactics he likes and lets him rout enemies more easily, so master rune of fear + rune of battle + rune of speed maybe? I could see replacing the speed rune with a rune of fury, too. If you're feeling super saucy you could even stick a rune of stone in there in the hopes of hitting some kind of avalanche or rockslide related combo.

Plus the fear rune would presumably stack with the trollspook effect Snorri's gear gets free gratis, which I think would make ole Otrek even more hilariously effective at breaking up a horde of trolls than he already is.

The thing is we've a lot more enemies than just trolls, and many of them are fear immune.

We could try to do something like combining a Master Rune of Fear with a pair of Runes of Dismay, but I don't think that would break daemons anyway.

BungieONI · Apr 14, 2020

bird yells said:
Well, there's probably a fairly sick suit of adamant armour on the docket for Otrek, eventually, yeah? I'm wondering if you couldn't consider his defences to be covered by that part of his kit and focus the cloak on enhancing his impact as a linebreaking shock troop. More specifically something that synergises with the flanking charge tactics he likes and lets him rout enemies more easily, so master rune of fear + rune of battle + rune of speed maybe? I could see replacing the speed rune with a rune of fury, too. If you're feeling super saucy you could even stick a rune of stone in there in the hopes of hitting some kind of avalanche or rockslide related combo.

Plus the fear rune would presumably stack with the trollspook effect Snorri's gear gets free gratis, which I think would make ole Otrek even more hilariously effective at breaking up a horde of trolls than he already is.

Mhmm! This is quite possible, and if it goes on a Cloak that's a Banner effect so it touches on his Huskarls too.

In that direction Rune of Battle, Rune of Impact, Rune of Speed would definitely make him go go fast and likely stack with the effects of Trollslayer due to the Rune of Impact both items would share. Perhaps a better combo however would be the Master Rune of Fear, Rune of Impact and Rune of Battle. That would make them on the charge look as ogres or giants, a terrifying illusion, and they would battle with much greater skill and momentum behind them.

Alratan said:
The thing is we've a lot more enemies than just trolls, and many of them are fear immune.

We could try to do something like combining a Master Rune of Fear with a pair of Runes of Dismay, but I don't think that would break daemons anyway.

Beastmen, Orc varieties (Which Snorri knows exists), beasts. All of these are vulnerable to Fear.

Alratan · Apr 14, 2020

BungieONI said:
Beastmen, Orc varieties (Which Snorri knows exists), beasts. All of these are vulnerable to Fear.

I'll give you beastmen, but historically, the greenskins didn't reach Norsca. Most Monsters cause Terror, and most lesser monstrous creatures, like demigryphs or giant wolves, cause Fear.

If I was going for fear, I might try to combine the Master Rune of Fear with the Rune of Dismay.

UlseDovThur · Apr 14, 2020

Hmm, is there a Rune that inspires ones allies? Maybe instead of making him fearsome to his enemies we make him inspirational to his allies. Like how all of the Dwarves fought all the harder because they knew an Ancestor God was fighting with them.

BungieONI · Apr 14, 2020

Alratan said:
I'll give you beastmen, but historically, the greenskins didn't reach Norsca. Most Monsters cause Terror, and most lesser monstrous creatures, like demigryphs or giant wolves, cause Fear.

If I was going for fear, I might try to combine the Master Rune of Fear with the Rune of Dismay.

Historically yes, though they may in the future.

UlseDovThur said:
Hmm, is there a Rune that inspires ones allies? Maybe instead of making him fearsome to his enemies we make him inspirational to his allies. Like how all of the Dwarves fought all the harder because they knew an Ancestor God was fighting with them.

Runes of Courage, Determination, or Fury might assist in such a thing if put on a Cloak.

Alratan said:
I've realised that a Master Rune of Grungi is pretty pointless at this point, as none of our enemies use ranged weapons...

Spells, rocks, thrown weapons. A lot of these are below the level of description we have in the battles recently but they're all extremely simple.

The spells part is particularly relevant, depending on the combo the Master Rune of Grungni is put in.

EVA-Saiyajin · Apr 14, 2020

BungieONI said:
I vaguely recall something similar yeah. It could work as well, determination is definitely in theme with Grungni and so is sanctuary.

It should still work with that, yes, determination and other themes. It's in the Ancestor Rune of Grungni just as healing is in the Ancestor Rune of Valaya.

It's the Master Rune of Grungni that gives the protection via stirring up magic.

Alratan · Apr 14, 2020

UlseDovThur said:
Hmm, is there a Rune that inspires ones allies? Maybe instead of making him fearsome to his enemies we make him inspirational to his allies. Like how all of the Dwarves fought all the harder because they knew an Ancestor God was fighting with them.

The two Banner Master Runes that do that haven't been invented yet.

There are Runes of Courage, Determination, and Stoicism, and the Rune of Battle probably does.

BungieONI said:
Historically yes, though they may in the future.

True. And if history isn't altered that much, we're likely to be called upon to help when the greenskins attack the dwarven surface settlements in what would become Kislev. That's a bit meta-gamey though

Still, we're explicitly being commissioned to provide protection. And while I have sympathy for the view that the nest defence is a good offence, that's not quite what it says in the request.

IronFist · Apr 14, 2020

UlseDovThur said:
Personally I'm not concerned with the action cost here. Like I said this is something that we/Snorri should be willing to put our all in. Will it take longer? Yes. Will it be worth it? In my opinion, Yes.

As for maneuverability that won't be an issue. The underway is plenty big enough seeing as Bloodthtisters are usually around 10 meters and The Miner, The Gronti we made to dig out the Underway is 15 meters. Maneuverability in the underway wont be an issue.

Ah, i misremembered the size of the miner. Thought it was much smaller.

Well, that puts the size concern to rest, at least. Anyway, not opening that kettle of fish until it's time to vote.

UlseDovThur · Apr 14, 2020

BungieONI said:
Runes of Courage, Determination, or Fury might assist in such a thing if put on a Cloak.

Maybe Master Rune of Fear, Rune of Courage, and Rune of Fury?

RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

Et Sic Incipit

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

Seven gremlins in a trench coat