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I prefer to replace it with:

Talk to Mari. Hazo is confused. Spreading plague might backfire on us, and Tsunade will be really mad.


Why? Trying to remove pox blanket from the plan is an unconstrained directive. Hazo might do things that are...unadvisable, like tell Tsunade.
We could also frame it as Mari teaching us a lesson here as well as hitting two birds with one stone.

She's obviously trying to peel Inazuka, Aburame, and co away from Hyuuga. She also knows Tsunade will smack her before this plan goes through.

So she's aware and ready for the consequences as opposed to the plan we had for Hiashi in regards to Orochimaru...

Basically, we need Hazo to rationalize this as Mari teaching us that not all tactics and weapons can be unleashed without blowback or unintended consequences.

We frame this as a learning lesson well recieved and hopefully Mari takes the hint that we need the blanket plague to Not actually happen.
 
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Basically, we need Hazo to rationalize this as Mari teaching us that not all tactics and weapons can be unleashed without blowback or unintended consequences.

We frame this as a learning lesson well recieved and hopefully Mari takes the hint that we need the blanket plague to Not actually happen.
I'm confused, why is this necessarily beneficial?

I'd actually agree with this, @MMKII; even if you end up keeping the plan to remove pox blankets Kiba's suggestion is a better way to phrase it.

That seems acceptable as a tie-breaker then. I'll perhaps edit that in in 45mins or so.
 
I prefer to replace it with:

Talk to Mari. Hazo is confused. Spreading plague might backfire on us, and Tsunade will be really mad.


Why? Trying to remove pox blanket from the plan is an unconstrained directive. Hazo might do things that are...unadvisable, like tell Tsunade.
I can accept this, it hits the most convincing points of why germ warfare is a bad idea and gives Mari a chance to save face.
 
I like Kiba's thought as well. If Tsunade doesn't care I'm not going to try bringing morality into arguing with a bunch of feudal warlords. But angering Tsunade just feels deeply unwise.
 
Watch Tsunade be like "What? No, this is totally fine. It's only (X thing that the Hivemind didn't predict) that I hate." :thonk:


Edit:
Hmmm. Maybe we should do a character analysis of her.
 
Okay, so maybe the Narrative Hijack plan wasn't as well supported as I thought. In which case:

[X] Action Plan: Internal Political Sausage-Making
Wordcount: 279

Run plans by the clan.
  1. Estate
    1. Meet adoption candidates:
      1. Evaluate:
        1. Candidate fit.
        2. Willingness to join.
        3. Scope of issues.
      2. Offer cooperation/improvement in living standards.
        1. Haru: Better employment for Dad, resources, and dispensation to beat the shit out of Hazou during sparring.
        2. Aya: Access to well-read invididuals (e.g Hazou, Shikamaru, Keiko), money, and resources.
        3. Noda: Dealing with debt, nature of Reality, and alcohol.
    2. Continue previous tasks.
      1. Consult Aburame and Inuzuka on chakra beast farming.
  2. Politics
    1. Temporary adoption limit increase:
      1. Reasoning:
        1. Due to Leaf's current scarcity of higher-ranked ninja and destruction of academic institutions, Leaf should temporarily use the ancient means of educating ninja: the clan.
      2. Proposal:
        1. Temporarily increase the clan adoption limit to five ninja per year for three years. Evaluate results.
      3. Execution:
        1. Meet allied clans to find the cost of their support.
        2. Meet hostile clans to find points of agreement.
        3. Submit consensus plan to Asuma.
    2. Sealing sweatshop conditions
      1. Continue pressure campaign for better sealmaster conditions or working from home
        1. Mention Kagome's reaction to sealing sweatshops to ISC during politicking.
    3. Point of clarification: How are we mitigating downsides like pox blankets backfiring via both plague and Tsunade getting pissed?
  3. Kei
    1. Thank her for helping us with our mental state. It helped a lot.
    2. Try to convince the Dog Clan to only accept Goketsu summoners ala the Snake attempt.
  4. Jiraiya's legacy
    1. Continue drawing from or maintaining Jiraiya's resource caches.
      1. Mention the cache in the Swamp of Death especially, considering the current plan.
    2. Try to reactivate portions of his spy networks with notes that we have.
      1. Reveal a fraction of what we have to drum up support.
  5. Implement Ami's suggestions.​
    1. Note feelings and emotions in journal.
    2. Practice daily with Mari on genjutsu.
I prefer to replace it with:

Talk to Mari. Hazo is confused. Spreading plague might backfire on us, and Tsunade will be really mad.


Why? Trying to remove pox blanket from the plan is an unconstrained directive. Hazo might do things that are...unadvisable, like tell Tsunade.
Implemented something similar to your suggestion:

"Point of clarification: How are we mitigating downsides like pox blankets backfiring via both plague and Tsunade getting pissed?"
 
Edits:
Hows this @Paperclipped ?
[X] Action Plan: Internal Political Sausage-Making (No Dog Scroll)
Wordcount: 271

Run plans by the clan.
  1. Estate
    1. Meet adoption candidates:
      1. Evaluate:
        1. Candidate fit and utility.
          1. A Technique Hacker would be quite a catch....
        2. Willingness to join.
        3. Scope of issues.
      2. Offer cooperation/improvement in living standards.
        1. Haru: Better employment for Dad, resources, and dispensation to beat the shit out of Hazou during sparring.
        2. Aya: Access to well-read invididuals (e.g Hazou, Shikamaru, Keiko), money, and resources.
        3. Noda: Dealing with debt, nature of Reality, and alcohol.
    2. Continue previous tasks.
      1. Consult Aburame and Inuzuka on chakra beast farming.
  2. Politics
    1. Temporary adoption limit increase:
      1. Reasoning:
        1. Due to Leaf's current scarcity of higher-ranked ninja and destruction of academic institutions, Leaf should temporarily use the ancient means of educating ninja: the clan.
      2. Proposal:
        1. Temporarily increase the clan adoption limit to five ninja per year for three years. Evaluate results.
      3. Execution:
        1. Meet allied clans to find the cost of their support.
        2. Meet hostile clans to find points of agreement.
        3. Submit consensus plan to Asuma.
      4. If unfeasible, seek non-voting clans that would be amicable towards selling their adoption slots.
    2. Sealing sweatshop:
      1. Continue pressure campaign for better sealmaster conditions or working from home
        1. Mention Kagome's reaction to sealing sweatshops to ISC during politicking.
    3. Ask Mari about pox blankets: Isn't plague hard to control? Wouldn't Tsunade get pissed?
  3. Kei
    1. Thank her for helping us with our mental state. It helped tons!
  4. Jiraiya's legacy
    1. Continue drawing from or maintaining Jiraiya's resource caches.
      1. Mention the cache in the Swamp of Death especially, considering the current plan.
    2. Try to reactivate portions of his spy networks with notes that we have.
  5. Implement Ami's suggestions.​
    1. Note feelings and emotions in journal.
    2. Practice daily with Mari on genjutsu.
 
I'm confused, why is this necessarily beneficial?
Well, I doubt Mari would really make a blunder like this after almost getting a scare of spreading plague through Octocat. I'd think Orochimaru would have said as much as well.

I think she's trying to get several points across with this little stunt. Loudly.

Calling her on this while Hazo shows he still doesn't fully get his Naruto goof up displays a lack of self awareness imo.

Benefits are that we might regain some trust and autonomy from her and the clan if we spin this as us learning or finally realizing our mistake.

Plus it plays on her ego and gives her an out.
 
Well, I doubt Mari would really make a blunder like this after almost getting a scare of spreading plague through Octocat.
My point of view is that either:

A) This is a sincere optimization on Mari's part and may or may not contain questionable elements of "Well, yeah, Bad Things but its not *our* problem!"
B)This whole plan is just some sort of signalling thing to the rest of Leaf that "The Gouketsu care about Leaf rah rah Will of Fire down with the Bad Guys (TM)."

If this is some sort of self-sacrifice nonsense along the lines of "Well yes, Tsunade will punch me into oblivion but mission accomplished boss! It was for the Greater Good!" then we can just say "No thank you, don't do that."
 
Well, I doubt Mari would really make a blunder like this after almost getting a scare of spreading plague through Octocat. I'd think Orochimaru would have said as much as well.

I think she's trying to get several points across with this little stunt. Loudly.

Calling her on this while Hazo shows he still doesn't fully get his Naruto goof up displays a lack of self awareness imo.

Benefits are that we might regain some trust and autonomy from her and the clan if we spin this as us learning or finally realizing our mistake.

Plus it plays on her ego and gives her an out.

Our job is to learn the political landscape even if we sounds a little stupid for asking.
 
On your end, please follow Eaglejarl's advice above, and don't write plans or suggestions that will get you infracted. Mod dangers aside, it was made clear to us during the threadlock that QMs are responsible for policing their quests, and I really don't want to have to call people out.

With all that in mind, ships are great fun to write and I fully endorse all things romantic (subject to the above), and think the quest would be richer, or at least more entertaining, for their existence.
Hazo x Mari fite me scrublord

[]Interlude: Hana has a terrible nightmare, she attends Adult!Hazou and Mari's wedding (while Mari is heavily pregnant)

Pretty please? @Velorien
 
Okay, so I'm also refining the approach we want to take with Haru Yamamoto, Kayano Aya, and Noda Kaiyo.

Haru Yamamoto
Currently planned approach:
Offer cooperation/improvement in living standards.
Haru: Better employment for Dad, resources, and dispensation to beat the shit out of Hazou during sparring.

Initial commentary: I think there's a lot of room for improvement, because I think this pushes the wrong buttons with Haru:
  1. Offering him better employment for Dad reminds him that his dad is totally at the whims of clans, who can do whatever they want with no fucking consequences. We're accidentally creating an audience dissimilarity.
  2. Offering him resources further reinforces this. This creates a further gap.
  3. Dispensation to beat the shit out of Hazou during sparring is, while not as bad as the other two points, still not that beneficial. Moreover, who the fuck are we to give him permission to beat the shit out of us? That's another gap that we just keep on making.
No, we can do better, by appealing to his anger instead of accidentally feeding it. I intend to make this plan shift, but I understand if others don't want to adapt it.

You get how fucked up this unjust society is. I need your help to burn it down and build a better Leaf.

I think this appeal works out better for both of us, actually. That's because even though we're not offering him physically as much, we're both not reminding him that he and his family's wellbeing and prosperity is at the mercy of clans and agreeing with how pissed off he is at society, which he feels has wronged him. By then offering him an outlet to resolve his anger (help me burn down this society and build a better Leaf), we can get his cooperation and his efforts according to our plans.

Put another way, we're creating a similarity between us and the target audience Haru (we think the system is unjust and want to make it better), appealing to negative emotion (anger at injustice), and then giving him our way of removing that emotion: (working with us to burn down the system and build a better Leaf).

The incendiary rhetoric will be called treasonous by the conservatives and the clanned moderates who believe that justice is the absence of disorder when true justice is the proactive confrontation of oppression and injustices. As believers in true justice for Leaf and all the nations, we will argue on Leaf's behalf, fight for Leaf's behalf, and die for Leaf's behalf if we must. We will confront this oppression and injustices where we see them because they are unjust, and we will not stop and we will not hesitate and we will not wait for a more opportune season because there will never again be quite so an opportune season as this one, not unless we fight to make one so, so that our children's children will one day be able to join hands and cry out "Justice! Justice at long last!"

(man being able to steal inspiration and rhetoric from all the civil rights leaders is pretty great for our purposes)
Kayano Aya
Currently planned approach:
Offer cooperation/improvement in living standards.
Aya: Access to well-read invididuals (e.g Hazou, Shikamaru, Keiko), money, and resources.

Hmph. The problem with being a well-adjusted individual is that there's really nothing I can work with here. There's not really anything I can work with persuasively that isn't super generic, but I guess it's worth a slight optimization to play on some things.

Aya: Learning from people like Hazou, Shikamaru, Keiko, Mari, etc. will help her reach her full potential.

It would really help if we could figure that out - I should probably add something like that.
Noda Kaiyo
Currently planned approach:
Offer cooperation/improvement in living standards.
Noda: Dealing with debt, nature of Reality, and alcohol.

Yeah, this is some weaksauce shit and it isn't going to cut it for this kind of depressive spiral.

Noda: Makaira and your mother would be sad to see you now. You owe it to them to do better. We'll help you do that. We have experience.

This new version goes straight for the fucking gut, playing off what we can guess: Noda looked up to Makaira, and had a strong emotion towards her mother; either hatred or bittersweetness will work, so because we're drawing the connection between her alcoholism and her mother's death by dream powder. Hopefully this gets her feeling some strong emotion even through the depression and alcohol juice, because we really need those in order for Noda to feel guilt/obligation, which is the actual thrust of the persuasion: Noda owes it to them to do better. Then we say that we will (no questions) help her, because we have experience with it - we provide a solution for the guilt.

Cause the target audience to feel a negative emotion, then cause your target audience to believe that your way is the best way to solve it. Classic appeal to negative emotion, and should provide better results.
Because the final offers don't actually end up with much wrt living conditions, I felt okay taking it out.

@MMKII, my new suggested Offers section reads like this:

Offers
  1. Haru: You get how fucked up this unjust society is. I need your help to burn it down and build a better Leaf.
  2. Aya: Learning from people like Hazou, Shikamaru, Keiko, Mari, etc. would help her reach her full potential.
  3. Noda: Makaira and your mother would be sad to see you now. You owe it to them to do better. We'll help you do that. We have experience.
It'll bump you up to 295 words, and the reasoning is inside the spoiler boxes. The TL;DR is that these all appeal better to them and their issues.
 
Okay, so I'm also refining the approach we want to take with Haru Yamamoto, Kayano Aya, and Noda Kaiyo.

Haru Yamamoto
Currently planned approach:
Offer cooperation/improvement in living standards.
Haru: Better employment for Dad, resources, and dispensation to beat the shit out of Hazou during sparring.

Initial commentary: I think there's a lot of room for improvement, because I think this pushes the wrong buttons with Haru:
  1. Offering him better employment for Dad reminds him that his dad is totally at the whims of clans, who can do whatever they want with no fucking consequences. We're accidentally creating an audience dissimilarity.
  2. Offering him resources further reinforces this. This creates a further gap.
  3. Dispensation to beat the shit out of Hazou during sparring is, while not as bad as the other two points, still not that beneficial. Moreover, who the fuck are we to give him permission to beat the shit out of us? That's another gap that we just keep on making.
No, we can do better, by appealing to his anger instead of accidentally feeding it. I intend to make this plan shift, but I understand if others don't want to adapt it.

You get how fucked up this unjust society is. I need your help to burn it down and build a better Leaf.

I think this appeal works out better for both of us, actually. That's because even though we're not offering him physically as much, we're both not reminding him that he and his family's wellbeing and prosperity is at the mercy of clans and agreeing with how pissed off he is at society, which he feels has wronged him. By then offering him an outlet to resolve his anger (help me burn down this society and build a better Leaf), we can get his cooperation and his efforts according to our plans.

Put another way, we're creating a similarity between us and the target audience Haru (we think the system is unjust and want to make it better), appealing to negative emotion (anger at injustice), and then giving him our way of removing that emotion: (working with us to burn down the system and build a better Leaf).

The incendiary rhetoric will be called treasonous by the conservatives and the clanned moderates who believe that justice is the absence of disorder when true justice is the proactive confrontation of oppression and injustices. As believers in true justice for Leaf and all the nations, we will argue on Leaf's behalf, fight for Leaf's behalf, and die for Leaf's behalf if we must. We will confront this oppression and injustices where we see them because they are unjust, and we will not stop and we will not hesitate and we will not wait for a more opportune season because there will never again be quite so an opportune season as this one, not unless we fight to make one so, so that our children's children will one day be able to join hands and cry out "Justice! Justice at long last!"

(man being able to steal inspiration and rhetoric from all the civil rights leaders is pretty great for our purposes)
Kayano Aya
Currently planned approach:
Offer cooperation/improvement in living standards.
Aya: Access to well-read invididuals (e.g Hazou, Shikamaru, Keiko), money, and resources.

Hmph. The problem with being a well-adjusted individual is that there's really nothing I can work with here. There's not really anything I can work with persuasively that isn't super generic, but I guess it's worth a slight optimization to play on some things.

Aya: Learning from people like Hazou, Shikamaru, Keiko, Mari, etc. will help her reach her full potential.

It would really help if we could figure that out - I should probably add something like that.
Noda Kaiyo
Currently planned approach:
Offer cooperation/improvement in living standards.
Noda: Dealing with debt, nature of Reality, and alcohol.

Yeah, this is some weaksauce shit and it isn't going to cut it for this kind of depressive spiral.

Noda: Makaira and your mother would be sad to see you now. You owe it to them to do better. We'll help you do that. We have experience.

This new version goes straight for the fucking gut, playing off what we can guess: Noda looked up to Makaira, and had a strong emotion towards her mother; either hatred or bittersweetness will work, so because we're drawing the connection between her alcoholism and her mother's death by dream powder. Hopefully this gets her feeling some strong emotion even through the depression and alcohol juice, because we really need those in order for Noda to feel guilt/obligation, which is the actual thrust of the persuasion: Noda owes it to them to do better. Then we say that we will (no questions) help her, because we have experience with it - we provide a solution for the guilt.

Cause the target audience to feel a negative emotion, then cause your target audience to believe that your way is the best way to solve it. Classic appeal to negative emotion, and should provide better results.
Because the final offers don't actually end up with much wrt living conditions, I felt okay taking it out.

@MMKII, my new suggested Offers section reads like this:

Offers
  1. Haru: You get how fucked up this unjust society is. I need your help to burn it down and build a better Leaf.
  2. Aya: Learning from people like Hazou, Shikamaru, Keiko, Mari, etc. would help her reach her full potential.
  3. Noda: Makaira and your mother would be sad to see you now. You owe it to them to do better. We'll help you do that. We have experience.
It'll bump you up to 295 words, and the reasoning is inside the spoiler boxes. The TL;DR is that these all appeal better to them and their issues.

I don't like the word 'burn'. That's too radical and revolutionary, even for Hazo. Rebuild it better sounds better.
 
For Haru, we have Akane as an ally in turning the guy. We should be leaning on her a lot since she's an ex-clanless ninja, but getting her approval should be pretty much a requirement for Haru.
 
[X] Action Plan: Observe Our Political Sausage-Making

I don't care what anyone else says, this still looks like a potential massive win, or at least a very interesting plotline, with minimum immediate cost of failure - at worst Mari will tell us we're stupid, and it won't even affect her opinion with us if we present it as a moonshot to begin with.
 
I don't like the word 'burn'. That's too radical and revolutionary, even for Hazo. Rebuild it better sounds better.
We're appealing to Haru's innermost absolute fucking fury at the entire unjust system and world here. We can't half-ass our righteous anger if we want to make this work; we've got to be just as absolutely spitting mad, or it's just going to backfire.

Put another way: If we're going to moderate ourselves when we talk to the moderates, we better be ready to radicalize ourselves when we talk to the radicals.


This might be a terrible idea. Noda obviously has some complicated feelings about her mother. Us bringing it up when we barely know her has a pretty big chance of back firing
Yeah, and we don't know Makaira either. It's a shot in the dark, but I'm willing to bet that no matter how she thinks about her mother, being told that her mother would feel bad for her would at least shock and horrify her a bit, which is the leverage we need to pull off the "owe it to them" routine.
 
Haru: You get how fucked up this unjust society is. I need your help to burn it down and build a better Leaf.

Our last attempt sympathizing with him didn't work well, did it? (I wanna say we tried it around the Chunin Exams. Someone faflec me on this).

Our circumstances didn't change much from there but now we can point out at all the good we are doing at least. Maybe point that out instead of trying to be buddy-buddy?
 
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