Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Jello_Raptor · Aug 7, 2018

MMKII said:
@Jello_Raptor Sure. This it?

I think the Pangolin Pepper addition to the paint is too much added complexity for too little gain.

We're already gonna perfume it. I dont see what the pepper does when mixed with the paint (paint is thick, it probably just makes it more sludgey instead of being an irritant when you scrape it off or something.)

I was gonna argue against babby seals but doing this to make them distrustful of their seal loadout is okay to me, I guess.

Paint comes in many forms, though if pangolin have something epoxy-like to make the paint harden, even better. Most of the pangolin pepper will just come off with the paint, but some of the paint will end up in places where they can only get it out during there sharpening process.

When they sharpen their tools (hence the blunting) it'll release particles of paint/pepper into the air. They're going to have to spend a good chunk of the rest day sharpening and cleaning things so they'll be useful again. At least some of the sharpening phase will have to grind paint off.

Forcing that process to be the equivalent of cutting onions (teary watery eyes, irritated nose and throat) is going to be this long persistent annoyance that is well below the usual "just suck it up you pansy" threshold for ninja.

Imagine you had to spend the entire rest day doing something useless and irritating instead of your actual plans, and then you had to fight us the next day.

Also the only part I added was the Babby seal portion. It's safer than giving them training explosive tags.

faflec · Aug 7, 2018

Tua said:
@faflec: To be sure, drop a line that we deposit all word halves in the summoning realm so we don't lose them should we get knocked out.

I'm putting stolen word halves in the Summoning Realm, but not ours.

Jello_Raptor said:
Partly that, and they'll have to spend the rest day scraping the paint off and sharpening their tools.

It keeps them tired and grouchy at little cost to ourselves while making super team red more likely to form.

Also bright colors will be easier to see at night, pink is both bright and relatively rare in our environment. If pangolin have glow in the dark paint, then we should use that.

Also embarrassment and anger hurts group cohesion and makes it more likely that they act impulsively.

Also, we should see if we can mix a bunch of pangolin pepper powder into the paint, so that the very process of scraping it off and sharpening is annoying. (It would release mild pepper irritants into the air.)

Basically I want to keep stacking annoyances till our enemies are too grouchy to think properly.

Full modified plan component:

Get bright or glow-in-the-dark paint from pangolin, mix in ground pangolin pepper dust.

Take common/unadorned weapons from enemies, blunt them a bit (hit them with a rock or something), then dip them in pepper paint.

Return all modified weapons to original owners.

Add the occasional extra weapon (also sabotaged similarly) and random babby seal(s?) into their loadouts.

Edit: Babby seal refers to the class of seals from the Nara book. They don't do much other than flash random colors or make noises. Completely non-dangerous, but incredibly problematic to have in any pile of explosive or storage seals.

Hazou can offer to (for free) pick the extra seals out of any sets that people bring us. He will just identify the seals that were added, as well as their function, before returning all the seals, including those that we added to their stock. Hazou will also get a chance to see all the seals during both the addition process and the return process.

Not doing the pangolin pepper part (gonna listen to thoughts), but the rest is done.

faflec said:
~~Taking most of this stuff from MMKII's plan.~~ Ping me.

Word count: 190

[X] Action Plan: Retroactive Partying

Run plan through Keiko/Noburi, and later with ISC (as applicable).

Maintain OPSEC (handsigns/Air Dome).

Don't jeopardize Round 2.

Stick together.

Retroactively:

To enemies:

Guesstimate combat styles (physique, weapons...).

VD check elemental affinities.

Put stolen word-halves in Summoning Realm.

Perfumerate them + equipment.

Blunt + paint (visible at night) equipment.

Pangolins:

Maybe unsummoning some (Pandojuru, Pangaya), reducing chakra drain.

Summon Paneru: Casing/defense consultation.

Deliver prisoners to ISC.

We're "honoring our deal".

Confirm details to keep story straight.

Get ISC to precommit to strategies:

Limit attack vectors: 'Safe' Underground + single aboveground path (we turn into a deathtrap).

R2 prep:

Brainstorm plausible attacks/defenses.

Case locations with Pangolins for: tunneling defenses, Pangolin counterattack/ambush vectors, effective defensive artillery fire....

Make thin MEW sheets for 5SB.

Enough to defend outer walls/key rooms from inside.

Tie together (wire) & put in storage seals.

Make seals as time permits.

Test implosion seal anti-underground effectiveness/nonlethality (use clones).

Re-drain prisoners to refresh unconsciousness.

High-priority targets: Wakahisa, social specs, intelligence bloodlines, Team Kurenai.

Afterparty:

Have fun. Socialize with everyone!

Jiraiya calls the shots.

If Hana comes, maybe tell a story (OPSEC-sanitized).

After afterparty, rest fully until morning.

18scsc · Aug 7, 2018

Traiden said:
I'm going to hold us to our emotional growth goals. I will not have us gained a habit of putting things off with the excuse of waiting to a better time.

I'm still not really convinced Hazou needs to change this aspect of his personality all that much in the first place. Nor do I think it's particularly possible given the nature of quests, specfically this quest, which uses entirely write-in plans.

Oneiros · Aug 7, 2018

@faflec somethings to consider adding to the plan

See if Paneru can requisition building materials to help with defense
- offer additional 5SB to next months payment if necessary
Conspire with ISC to decide what is most effective to get other teams to ally against us
- Possible suggestion
- Bold and brash: We are the second coming of the Sannin and will crush everyone
- Cool and cautious: We are terrified of ISC taking us down and are seeking to undermine there allaince
- Discuss using word halfs to manipulate people
  - Threaten to burn them if people don't attack?
Discuss with Jiraiya how we can leverage our new found legend
- How to build and maintain a reputation
Find out if he wants us to try to eliminate Team Kurenia from the tournament.
- Suggest goading Kiba to get them to attack
Socialize with other Red team ninja
- Talk about how we'd really like to stay in touch
- Mention how we all really worked well as a team together
- Underscore how valuable it is to have a working relationship with The Hokage children

Immortal Lurker · Aug 7, 2018

faflec said:
I'm putting stolen word halves in the Summoning Realm, but not ours.

Not doing the pangolin pepper part (gonna listen to thoughts), but the rest is done.

You should at least specify that we only damage generic equipment.

Cariyaga · Aug 7, 2018

Can we please stop suggesting that we say we're putting things in the seventh path? We've already been over this in-story! That's an OPSEC breach that Kei would not be happy with.

On another note: Why are we using perfumerators here? Pangolin have a strong sense of smell, they don't need to be drenched in the stuff; a little dab behind the ear should be plenty for the pangolins to track them.

Erolki · Aug 7, 2018

Immortal Lurker said:
You should at least specify that we only damage generic equipment.

Honestly, while it's better than outright stealing it, I'm still not comfortable outright sabotaging their gear - especially since, again, all the top threats are jutsu-based and thus won't be slowed down. All we'll be doing is pissing off a bunch of secondary combatants, many of which we're more likely to be able to work well with long-term because they're from smaller villages who aren't directly competing with Leaf the same way.

Emstar · Aug 7, 2018

@Noumero

1) Kurenai *isn't* coming to the party. This was in Oli's update Pangolin Traumatic Stress Disorder (Pt 1).
2) Nara's "optimization" in this instance is going to be a front for our pre-suggested combat tactics (that we prepare explicit counters for).

It doesnt serve Shikamaru to actually optimize this assault. He just has to do so enough to make it believable. I have given him some tactics to use in the interests of this that we can counter.

At worst, this makes us (Uplift, Team Asuma) look just as clever as the other is.

Keeping the above in mind: I think we can split the oncoming horde into two groups (land, underground). Have Pangolins and our teammates handle the underground portion.

This leaves ~12-15 ninja in the land portion(Team Asuma and his Round 1 team must suicide goo for his plan to work. Even if only Team Asuma does this, we have IC confirmation his teammates are friggin useless.)

A mix of our external defenses and heavy ranged bombardment should clear some of the land based guys, regardless of their chakra count.

If <9 make it to the facility, we donate a pile of the remaining chakra to Keiko, pop two more pangolin summons and start the brawl. Pangaya +Pandojuru in addition to a group of people there should allow us to win via a combination of their powers and our CQC with Keikos ranged support and Nobbys drain.

firestorm440 · Aug 7, 2018

@faflec I didn't see shuffling babby seals into their actual seals (if any) in the plan, do you think that's a bad idea or was that just not scooped up for want of a spoon?

Jello_Raptor · Aug 7, 2018

[X] Action Plan: Retroactive Partying

I'm pretty happy, though I like a lot of @Oneiros's suggestions.

I think the pepper part is important, because the constant irritation over the course of the day is what is really going to throw them psycologically off balance.

Sharpening and cleaning can be meditative. Having to sharpen and clean while crying and coughing isn't going to be so easily shrugged off.

Something like the following would work for me:

Shuffle extra Babby seals/spare weapons into enemy equipment.
Blunt + paint (visible at night + added peppers) equipment

Edit: My goal here is to stack up the psychological modifiers to screw with their judgement.

There's a big difference between "mild annoyance" and "persistent mild annoyance you can't get your mind off of" when it comes to thing people off balance.

Likewise adding extra equipment to feed off the natural ninja paranoia just makes it more likely that people will have to devote their rest day to dealing with this shit rather than their actual plans.

faflec · Aug 7, 2018

Oneiros said:
@faflec somethings to consider adding to the plan

See if Paneru can requisition building materials to help with defense

offer additional 5SB to next months payment if necessary

Conspire with ISC to decide what is most effective to get other teams to ally against us

Possible suggestion

Bold and brash: We are the second coming of the Sannin and will crush everyone

Cool and cautious: We are terrified of ISC taking us down and are seeking to undermine there allaince

Discuss using word halfs to manipulate people

Threaten to burn them if people don't attack?

Discuss with Jiraiya how we can leverage our new found legend

How to build and maintain a reputation

Find out if he wants us to try to eliminate Team Kurenia from the tournament.

Suggest goading Kiba to get them to attack

Socialize with other Red team ninja

Talk about how we'd really like to stay in touch

Mention how we all really worked well as a team together

Underscore how valuable it is to have a working relationship with The Hokage children

Alright, so I'm in agreement with pretty much all of this, but would like to ask if you think we could ask Jiraiya the Kurenai question in the Summoning Realm, for added security? I've added it in anyway, but wanted to get your thoughts on that.

Otherwise...maybe check the plan to make sure it's what you intended?

Immortal Lurker said:
You should at least specify that we only damage generic equipment.

Done.

Cariyaga said:
Can we please stop suggesting that we say we're putting things in the seventh path? We've already been over this in-story! That's an OPSEC breach that Kei would not be happy with.

On another note: Why are we using perfumerators here? Pangolin have a strong sense of smell, they don't need to be drenched in the stuff; a little dab behind the ear should be plenty for the pangolins to track them.

A bit worried that the perfume might come off.

firestorm440 said:
@faflec I didn't see shuffling babby seals into their actual seals (if any) in the plan, do you think that's a bad idea or was that just not scooped up for want of a spoon?

I have no idea what a babby seal is but I DO NOT want to mix seals. That seems like Seal Fuckups 101.

faflec said:
~~Taking most of this stuff from MMKII's plan.~~ Ping me.

Word count: 260

[X] Action Plan: Retroactive Partying

Run plan through Keiko/Noburi, and later with ISC (as applicable).

Maintain OPSEC (handsigns/Air Dome).

Don't jeopardize Round 2.

Stick together.

Retroactively:

To enemies:

Guesstimate combat styles (physique, weapons...).

VD check elemental affinities.

Put stolen word-halves in Seventh Path.

Perfumerate them + equipment.

Paint (visible in dark) + blunt generic equipment.

Pangolins:

Maybe unsummoning some (Pandojuru, Pangaya), reducing chakra drain.

Summon Paneru: Casing/defense consultation.

Possibly requisition materials for R2. Pay with 5SB/gold.

Deliver prisoners to ISC.

We're "honoring our deal".

Confirm details to keep story straight.

Help make anti-Gōketsu alliance:

Should we act super-confident or 'try' to undermine alliance?

Threaten to burn word halves (?).

Get ISC to precommit to strategies:

Limit attack vectors: 'Safe' Underground + single aboveground path (we turn into a deathtrap).

R2 prep:

Brainstorm plausible attacks/defenses.

Case locations with Pangolins for: tunneling defenses, Pangolin counterattack/ambush vectors, effective defensive artillery fire....

Make thin MEW sheets for 5SB.

Enough to defend outer walls/key rooms from inside.

Tie together (wire) & put in storage seals.

Make seals as time permits.

Test implosion seal anti-underground effectiveness/nonlethality (use clones).

Re-drain prisoners to refresh unconsciousness.

High-priority targets: Wakahisa, social specs, intelligence bloodlines, Team Kurenai.

Afterparty:

Socialize!

Jiraiya calls the shots.

Teammates:

Want to stay in touch.

Worked really well as a team.

(Subtly) Mention value of working relationship with Hokage's children.

Comment on growing legend, subtly discuss how to leverage (build/maintain reputation).

Ask if he wants us to remove Team Kurenai from tournament (goad Kiba?).

If Hana comes, maybe tell a story (OPSEC-sanitized).

After afterparty, rest fully until morning.

Emstar · Aug 7, 2018

Jello_Raptor said:
[X] Action Plan: Retroactive Partying

I'm pretty happy, though I like a lot of @Oneiros's suggestions.

I think the pepper part is important, because the constant irritation over the course of the day is what is really going to throw them psycologically off balance.

Sharpening and cleaning can be meditative. Having to sharpen and clean while crying and coughing isn't going to be so easily shrugged off.

Something like the following would work for me:

Blunt + paint (visible at night + added peppers) equipment.

My issue of this is my paltry knowledge of suspensions (pepper powder mixed with paint) leads me to believe its just going to solidify on the weapons and peel off in chunks and flakes instead of any meaningful dispersal into the air.

I think getting paint that optimizes what youre trying to do is a bit beyond the scope of the plan or the characters abilities with current time constraints.

firestorm440 · Aug 7, 2018

faflec said:
I have no idea what a babby seal is but I DO NOT want to mix seals. That seems like Seal Fuckups 101.

Apparently they're useless seals that glow different colors, make noises, that sort of thing. If you think the potential danger is too much collateral damage potential, that's fair.

faflec · Aug 7, 2018

firestorm440 said:
Apparently they're useless seals that glow different colors, make noises, that sort of thing. If you think the potential danger is too much collateral damage potential, that's fair.

Yeah...if the person uses a defensive seal to block a stray kunai moving at you at ninja throwing speeds and it turns out to be a dud, that person is dead or otherwise seriously injured. Would rather not take the risk.

Tua · Aug 7, 2018

firestorm440 said:
Apparently they're useless seals that glow different colors, make noises, that sort of thing. If you think the potential danger is too much collateral damage potential, that's fair.

In any case, Hazo himself would veto that part of the plan if he thought it was a risk.

Emstar · Aug 7, 2018

Lets not go crazy optimizing "fucking with their gear" on the 1% chance it pays out for us.(and on the 1% chance it also fucks them up at a critical moment as @faflec points out).

There are more important fish to fry here.

Edit: Im okay with blunting and painting every kunai and shuriken hot pink for visibility and annoyance(theyd spend all day scraping it off and sharpening) but we're getting a bit ridiculous here.

Cariyaga · Aug 7, 2018

Um.

Paint is actually really damn expensive in preindustrial societies, for reference, and vibrant colors moreso.

firestorm440 · Aug 7, 2018

Those are reasonable points. The rest of the plan looks good to me.

Emstar · Aug 7, 2018

Cariyaga said:
Um.

Paint is actually really damn expensive in preindustrial societies, for reference, and vibrant colors moreso.

Counterpoint:

Clan of sealmasters. We're basically rich. We'd also be grabbing these off the pangolins. Im cool with slightly more alien warlord debt because Hazous time the day or two after the event is relatively cheap, and Kagome already did this months shipment(modulo some extra we have to do anyway.)

Jello_Raptor · Aug 7, 2018

MMKII said:
My issue of this is my paltry knowledge of suspensions (pepper powder mixed with paint) leads me to believe its just going to solidify on the weapons and peel off in chunks and flakes instead of any meaningful dispersal into the air.

I think getting paint that optimizes what youre trying to do is a bit beyond the scope of the plan or the characters abilities with current time constraints.

I expect not, because most non-latex paint sticks meaningfully onto rough metal. The nooks and crannies from the blunting process means that a decent amount of the paint will have to be sanded off during the sharpening process.

faflec said:
I have no idea what a babby seal is but I DO NOT want to mix seals. That seems like Seal Fuckups 101.

Babby seals are just my nickname for the seals from the Nara "Babby's First Seals" book. Simple flashing lights and sounds, that will contribute to confusion and paranoia, without adding any new danger to the wargame.

Seals are stable once infused, meaning stuff will only get weird if you damage them physically or activate them. This means we are effectively introducing duds into the enemy supply, without causing extra harm.

Edit: Wait even better than Babby seals, just shuffle in some fake seals, made with normal non-chakra ink. Just pieces of paper that look like seals.

Oneiros · Aug 7, 2018

faflec said:
Alright, so I'm in agreement with pretty much all of this, but would like to ask if you think we could ask Jiraiya the Kurenai question in the Summoning Realm, for added security? I've added it in anyway, but wanted to get your thoughts on that.

I mean why? If Jiraiya doesn't want us to talk about it he will tell him to shut up. Having Hazou do it has some benefits as well. Gets us more actively involved in politics and reinforces the idea that Jiraiya can bring us in to high level discussion

faflec · Aug 7, 2018

Cariyaga said:
Um.

Paint is actually really damn expensive in preindustrial societies, for reference, and vibrant colors moreso.

*raises finger*

*lowers finger*

Shit. @eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail How expensive is paint in this setting? Surely Hazou has some idea even if he isn't the richest dude.

MMKII said:
modulo some extra we have to do anyway

eaglejarl said:
Kiba said:

@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail Did Kagome gave us enough 5SB to account for the gold we took out in event 3?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Sure.

Oh, he sent some explosives, too, because he's Kagome and why would you put *brownies* in a care package when you could put explosives? Coincidentally, he sent the exact number that you expended in this round. The fact that this means I don't have to figure out how many that was and then update your character sheets has nothing to do with anything.

We're fine on the 5SB shipment part, even including the extra.

Edit:

Oneiros said:
I mean why? If Jiraiya doesn't want us to talk about it he will tell him to shut up. Having Hazou do it has some benefits as well. Gets us more actively involved in politics and reinforces the idea that Jiraiya can bring us in to high level discussion

Alright then, just was thinking about it.

Kiba · Aug 7, 2018

MMKII said:
Counterpoint:

Clan of sealmasters. We're basically rich. We'd also be grabbing these off the pangolins. Im cool with slightly more alien warlord debt because Hazous time the day or two after the event is relatively cheap, and Kagome already did this months shipment(modulo some extra we have to do anyway.)

WoG said Kagome did that and more, plus exactly refill our seal loadouts.

Cariyaga · Aug 7, 2018

MMKII said:
Counterpoint:

Clan of sealmasters. We're basically rich. We'd also be grabbing these off the pangolins. Im cool with slightly more alien warlord debt because Hazous time the day or two after the event is relatively cheap, and Kagome already did this months shipment(modulo some extra we have to do anyway.)

We are not currently rich, we just have what's left of the money we got for Jiraiya's present.

Secondly, we should not be flaunting our money even if we were currently rich.

Noumero · Aug 7, 2018

MMKII said:
1) Kurenai *isn't* coming to the party. This was in Oli's update Pangolin Traumatic Stress Disorder (Pt 1).
2) Nara's "optimization" in this instance is going to be a front for our pre-suggested combat tactics (that we prepare explicit counters for).

It doesnt serve Shikamaru to actually optimize this assault. He just has to do so enough to make it believable. I have given him some tactics to use in the interests of this that we can counter.

At worst, this makes us (Uplift, Team Asuma) look just as clever as the other is.

Keeping the above in mind: I think we can split the oncoming horde into two groups (land, underground). Have Pangolins and our teammates handle the underground portion.

This leaves ~12-15 ninja in the land portion(Team Asuma and his Round 1 team must suicide goo for his plan to work. Even if only Team Asuma does this, we have IC confirmation his teammates are friggin useless.)

A mix of our external defenses and heavy ranged bombardment should clear some of the land based guys, regardless of their chakra count.

If <9 make it to the facility, we donate a pile of the remaining chakra to Keiko, pop two more pangolin summons and start the brawl. Pangaya +Pandojuru in addition to a group of pe

1. I know. I mentioned them as example of a broken combination, not as one of the broken combinations we're going to encounter.
2. Shikamaru is going to have to usefully contribute anyway; he wouldn't be their only capable strategist. If all he does is trying to subtly sabotage their plan, ISC will be exposed as traitors.

And this is important: Shikamaru wouldn't be their only capable strategist. Assuming that ISC successfully convinces everyone they're not secretly on our side, he still has to outmanoeuvre three+ social and planmaking specialists. Dividing the assault team in two groups which go through the paths we've prepared for them is playing right into our hands, and they wouldn't miss this. Attacking simultaneously from all directions is a superior alternative. Turning it into a battle of attrition, small scrimishes stretched across the entire day, is a superior alternative.

I doubt ISC's ability to convince STR to collectively follow such a self-defeating strategy.

And how much CP we need to have available, to use techniques comfortably once the assault starts? How much we're likely going to spend on preparations? How many pangolins are we going to summon? Was this mathed out?

(And, again, it doesn't account for broken combinations. I hope we'll get information on most of our enemies' abilities in the next update, though ironically it will be too late to abort by then if we discover something game-changing.)

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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