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I'm a strong advocate for Ranald temple and...I cannot honestly find a way to fit it in.

My advice: hold our horses on dumping multiple AP on our prisoner until Belegar gives us greenlight on Project Queekish. Because right now, we don't know if Belegar would give us Greenlight on making Project Queekish our job, and we don't really know if the thread itself would also vote for Project Queekish, so multiple APs on Project Queekish right now presume that Project Queekish will be our priority post tower, and if it this assumption doesn't come true, it means we've spent AP to prepare for something that didn't materialize. I'd actually like to first try out the Deceiver coin on our Prisoner and see what obstacles actually lie with Project Queekish according to WOG and try and find out principle, before making multiple AP investments into our Prisoner.
 
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Personally I think teaching Wolf Praestantia has a lot more benefits than just preping for the skaven translation and we kind of have to do the wolf action regardless when it comes to learning from the skaven. Teaching wolf Praestantia means we can essentially telepresence with his help, being able to be at two places at once in safe environs is pretty useful. Plus once Wolf can speak he's able to learn and act a lot more independently. Who doesn't want Wolf to be able to start growing on his own?
 
Besides that, honouring our god is worth delaying our acquisition of Queekish for six months if necessary.
Stealing forbidden knowledge through espionage for the sake of others is explicitly an act that honors Ranald in all of his aspects.
But Ranald as you know Him is different. The Trickster, the first of His faces you had come to know, would delight in your seeking of answers to what so many would consider unanswerable questions. The Protector, who made Ranald worship so touchy and who you'd tried to enshrine in the Stirland Watch, would approve of challenging the power structure that would so unfairly deny knowledge to those who could benefit from it. The Gambler had put His thumb on the scales for you many times, including when you were investigating the nature of magic and had almost suffered Shyish discharge to the face or an ill-timed ambush from Wisdom's Asp, and had also put everything on the line alongside you and profited as the two of you robbed Mork of a portion of His power. And the Night Prowler... well, what better to steal than knowledge of the nature of the Gods?
All of these reasons also apply for Queekish.
 
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Swap out the looting and teaching Wolf to talk. We need to learn Invisibility, we have a temple to build, and we're not going to get Queekish out of Qrech this turn anyway. Besides that, honouring our god is worth delaying our acquisition of Queekish for six months if necessary. It feels wrong to go this long without building the temple.

It's not delaying by six months it's potentially losing out on doing it at all. Prisoners are a perishable commodity, the longer we take the more chance something happens like the deciding to suicide. We need to work on getting Queekish now, not later. The Temple is not time sensitive.
 
It's not delaying by six months it's potentially losing out on doing it at all. Prisoners are a perishable commodity, the longer we take the more chance something happens like the deciding to suicide. We need to work on getting Queekish now, not later. The Temple is not time sensitive.
The temple is dedicated to the god of luck, who aids or hinders us all throughout our days, and in regards to the Coin we often make use of the Gambler. By building the temple we please Ranald and gain more of his favour, strengthening our endeavour to steal the language of the skaven and all other endeavours as well. Piety is worth committing to as something beyond being able to fit it into our schedule.
 
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Apprentices will hate both us and Olenus. It is like an ultimate trick question:

Examinator: Who invented Mathilde's Multidimensional Aethyric Polysevirric Projection?
Student (to himself): *Well, that's an easy one. There was only one Mathilde who named everything after herself.*
Student (aloud): It was Lord Magister Mathilde Weber of the Grey College, professor!
Examinator: Wrong! Mathilde only invented the lesser-known Ulgu version of the spell. It was Lord Magister Olenus of the Bright College who built upon her work and made it into MMAPP we use nowadays.

Like, Cauchy is already ill-loved among students for the overabundance of the theorems bearing his name. Now imagine if one of his theorem were actually formulated and proven by Gauss.

This is how we get time traveling assassins.

Divine Magic can also use Lesser Magic. Our precious MAP is being used by Sigmarites!
How do divine spellcasters get access to new spells anyway?
We know Arcane spellcasters must reverse engineer the spell into their own Wind.

Does the God do the work?
If yes, then MMAPP is likely to show up in Ranald priests first, since Ranald was pretty much watching us work the whole time, and because the Lore of Ranald is very close to the Lore of Shadow as it is.


Roswita being afraid that Mathilde will spontaneously combust at any given moment might put a slight damper on the romance, yes.

Though it still makes her the easiest on-screen Van Hal to romance...

Very brief idea of "What if there was a trashy romance novel about a Witch Hunter and a Bright Battle Wizard bonding over burning necromancers?" spawned out of this post.

Hmm.

As hilarious as the Suddenly Cats bits was, I'm looking in there and going.

"Holy shit, Mathilde invented a spell that could be relatively easily simplified into Lesser Magic, only functionally needing one editing pass to reach that point"

People invent new bits of Color Magic all the time, Lesser Magic tends to usually be the product of decades of work, and then decades more simplifying it until the concepts can be expressed by any Wind of Magic. No fucking wonder it was worth 10 College Reputation to be the original designer, she functionally added a solid new tool to the arsenal of the Colleges of Magic.

Also, will admit, it's hilarious that we went from -1 to +15 College Favor just like that.
To think all it took was one wizard sufficiently frustrated about lacking an illustrated diagram and sufficiently in tune with Ulgu to make it happen.

And one wizard sufficiently brilliant to rip out the core Ulgu dependent element and replace it with universal spell architecture.



Hmm, it's definitely got more to do with his state of mind, but couldn't Belegar's lifespan theoretically extend past the rebirth, re-fall and re-"getting swallowed by the sun in several million years" of K8P.

It's interesting, I wonder what dwarfs in general think of those who seem to have Stubborned their way to immortality, in the period where it's obvious they are one, but aren't at the 'living ancestor' point of automatic reverence.

There must be a protocol for what happens if a sitting king does The Thing, surely? You'd have a bunch of stagnation issues otherwise.
Dwarves entirely DO have stagnation issues on the policy level even if they're pretty innovative on an individual level.

And I'm pretty sure they culturally lionize those live-forever kings.

As long as Karak 8 Peaks cannot take the final peak Belegar will be immortal until slain in battle. I think we all know what needs to be done.
Make one peak permanently stuck in the sky, just in reach enough that Gyrocopters can reach it, but you need a lot more Gyrocopters to ever retake it.

Once they achieve that you lift the next one over into low earth orbit.
It must be achievable but very hard to achieve.

Did the (40 year old) kid talk to a Barazul? Seems like something Math might have been curious about, given her own experiences.
If he did, it didn't stop him. The inner workings of the local Cult of Grimnir aren't her business.
I'm assuming that the typical young adult freaking out never stopped for a Barazul. I mean, look at how Belegar described his own experience.

The Barazuls just plain never got a CHANCE to learn they have a problem they're going to commit suicide over, theres too many young dwarves convinced that this latest failing is a shame they will never make up for.

I'm willing to bet they just cloistered themselves to brood over it, as if repeating the same train of logic would take them anywhere but the same destination.


So I'd like to raise a bit of a concern regarding little Mandred, it's nothing urgent but... his mother is a spell-casting priest. That is to all intents and purposes a wizard who channels the gods, same three soul mutations make them as make arcane mages. That does not guarantee Mandred will have the ability to channel magic of course, but as the Jade College shows there is a better chance he will with one parent having the talent, so something to look out for and Mathilde is one of the few people who can look out for it since the Empress' nature is secret from everyone including the priesthoods of the other gods and the Colleges.
I'm assuming that if he DOES show the ability his mother would initiate him into Ranald, which doesn't require giving up any social status like joining the other clergy would.
She tested for long-term side-effects before she published the first paper, and the use she's putting it to isn't at all novel.
On novel usages...question @BoneyM if you Matrix a MMAPP into someone or something, is the projection pre-programmed?

It occurs to me its an interesting way to convey a message which the messenger is incapable of reading, which self destructs upon being read, and which leaves no physical evidence to reconstruct into the message.

Just the messenger gets to the recipient, who speaks the access phrase, the MMAPP appears with a message encoded in a 3d puzzle cipher, and then dissipates after a bit, which leaves any spies trying to decode a cipher without any way to record it except memory, and not knowing what parts are important to remember.
He seens to have also gained a point of diplo, because I remener him having an 18
Maybe he's learned to Pose Heroically and SPEAK LOUDLY AND CLEARLY?

No, but she did ask. Apparently he showed up for just long enough to get his new title and then went back out looking for more Vampires. Him and Roswita are exchanging letters as he gives her a crash course on the political realities of the upper echelons of the Sigmarite church.
Now THAT there is a working religious advisor.
Also Roswita's opinion of the Church just got rocked pretty hard I think.

By the way, what is the point of guns now that we have shadow knives?

I always thought of them as of a stopgap measure. I believe we are at the point where we should retire them.
I'm doubtful about the range claim and shadow knives also don't miscast, given our magic stat.

Shadow knives don't miscast in normal conditions, we can miscast Fiendishly Complicated spells under pressure. Melee combat is not ideal for no pressure casting.

In essence, we can use the revolver for extra attacks in melee at no additional risk. At mid range we're better off using Shadow Knives to spam sprays of triple hit, but casting in melee requires you to be absurdly fast with the spell or else accept the risk that you could be jostled mid cast and have the spell run wild.


Is there a reason to expect that Belegar will attempt a reconquest of Kyvinn Wyr within the next decade? He just this social turn basically confessed to us that he can't think of a rational reason to do so. The dwarves don't need the extra living space and the trolls are basically contained, so what's the point other than to cross out old grudges and put an extra sapphire in his crown?
When he gets enough fire power to clear Kvynn-Wyr out without major losses. He's sent for Irondrakes for 2 years now and he's been making gestures of conciliation at the Slayer Keep, I imagine he's waiting for the day of Enuff Dakka.

Why take it?
-Theres a huge piece of Warpstone up there. Its literally a bomb waiting to go off if not disposed of.
--Yes, the trolls are security for it, but I don't think anyone would say with a straight face that the Skaven won't go for it the moment they aren't distracted with trying to kill each other.
--Warpstone mutated trolls can vary wildly. Apply enough warpstone and just abut anything unpleasant WILL happen eventually. Now its pretty unlikely that it'd produce a smart troll, but we've seen enough unlikely things in Eight Peaks that I would not completely rule out a smart troll leader emerging.

-Its strategically important to control of the Citadel, because theres no way to supply the Citadel except overland, where literally everyone can see how much is going in. We need it, or at least its Underway, secure if we're to consider the Under-Citadel possible to retake. The alternative is Under-Karagril and we already established that taking THAT is strategically unsustainable.

-The 'good' thing about Trolls taking the peak is that basically all the loot in the vaults are likely still in there. Its very unlikely to find any of the vaults, much less breach them without magic.

If the Dwarves have experimented with deploying the tier above normal Anvil of Doom battle magic in the bedroom, they haven't seen fit to make public the results.
It is sort of an anvil-and-hammer metaphor...

Oh sorry I kind of wrongly assumed everyone would know about it, I'll just tell the story for anyone who doesn't know:

Right now is one of the relatively warmest period of Elf-Dwarf relations in thousand years.

Now that isn't much and both sides still largely still distain each other from the wounds of the war of the beard but things have the hope of really changing. The current Phoenix king Finubar was famous even before he became king for making numerous voyages to really scout the Old World in detail for the first time since basically the war of the beard. As a part of this he was the first elf to step foot in a Dwarf Hold since the time of Caledor and did his best to make friends with them again even drinking some Bugmans. As such he has something of a respect if not friendship with Thorgrim and even if general attitudes aren't massively different the leaders of both sides are ready to make some effort to change things.

Enter, Aliathra the Everchild, daughter of Alarielle and Finubar by way of the traditional phoenix king/Everqueen first year spent together and future Everqueen. As part of the diplomatic efforts she is appointed ambassador to the Dwarves. This is a major show of trust since traditionally the everchild is kept secluded and safe after the time a few thousand years age they nearly lost the heir, especially since this saved their asses recently when the Dark elf invasion killed Alarielle's mom and nearly got her too.

This actually work really well with Aliathra making a lot of progress in her mission and it honestly looks like their could be a possible end to the Dwarf-Elf feud. But then on she is Kidnapped by Manfred Von Carlstein with an undead army ambushing her. Thorgrim rallies his armies to go rescue her as even if she is an elf she is still a guest of his who has be kidnapped and honor demands it.

Meanwhile, Tyrion and Teclis are also sent with an army to get her back too. Tyrion is majorly pissed the whole time and people assume it is because he is the Everqueen's lover and her daughter is kidnapped. Now him being the everqueen's lover is fine but what isn't fine is when Teclis finds out from Tyrion that Aliathra is his child with her not Finubar's since it majorly impact the legitimacy of the next everqueen. They follow Mannfred to Nagahizzar and rescue her from Mannfred but get counter-attacked by a massive undead army which starts beating them. Thankfully, Thorgrim arrive with the dwarf army and help carry the day but at the last minute Mannfred manages to carry Aliathra away and fly off.

Now this is possibly the closest the Dwarf and Elves will ever get to a great situation to make peace; they have just fought together against a major foe setting aside their difference for someone they both respect highly and is still in danger. This is the chance to march together as they did in time of old against a common foe to do what is honorable despite the past which is what Thorgrim offers to do...

… But Tyrion screws it up when he rages over the loss of his secret daughter and insults Thorgrim to his face instead. He tells the dwarf to screw off and that elves don't need any dwarf help and never will. Thorgrim does the smart thing and instead of restarting the war of the beard which would probably finalize the death spiral of both races he says 'fine if that is what you want do it yourself, I have satisfied honor" then he takes his army back to his hold. So the Dwarf-Elf peace process is now dead and buried with Aliathra still in enemy hands.

Now after this the story continues into End times stuff about Mannfred working for Nagash and her being needed for a ritual alongside a bunch of other people but I am going to stop it here since it is confusing.

It happens like 2520's-ish in canon but no we have no idea if it will happen earlier, later or whatever in this quest. Still a really good Warhammer story that has everyone act in character in a fun plotline with plenty of cool opportunities in my opinion.

Somewhat crazy thought: This sounds like the kind of thing which the right person, in the right place, at the right time, with the Second Secret of Dhar in hand could completely throw off.

But more likely the Von Carstein is going to see the utter mess in Sylvania after the Battle Wizards are done and do something else instead.
 
How do divine spellcasters get access to new spells anyway?
We know Arcane spellcasters must reverse engineer the spell into their own Wind.

Does the God do the work?
If yes, then MMAPP is likely to show up in Ranald priests first, since Ranald was pretty much watching us work the whole time, and because the Lore of Ranald is very close to the Lore of Shadow as it is.
It's just a game mechanics concession that arcane and divine spellcasters get the same lesser spells.
 
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The temple is dedicated to the god of luck, who aids or hinders us all throughout our days, and in regards to the Coin we often make use of the Gambler. By building the temple we please Ranald and gain more of his favour, strengthening our endeavour to steal the language of the skaven and all other endeavours as well. Piety is important.
Piety is important. But prisoners are perishable. And this Skaven is making all sorts of rolls every turn for who knows what. Stopping to set up a temple instead of fleecing our mark means that they might very well cease to exist.
It's just a game mechanics concession that arcane and divine spellcasters get the same lesser spells.
It's spell effects that everybody can pull off. If a priest doesn't want to get shown up by a wizard in the command tent it's entirely possible that they'd ask for an effect similar to our eminently useful spell, at which point their god has to stop by the colleges and check out a copy so that they don't let their friends down. :V
 
Not using Protector back when we were running Karagril cost us 12 Dwarf Favor, if you look at it a certain way. (The 3 unremarked upon Warboss kills).

Rreading what Boney< said, I don't think that not using Protector cost us ny favour. The dwarves just don't give favour for assassinations in usual circumstances.
 
@BoneyM, I am curious about Olenus' conversion. Did you roll for every College, six of which failed and seventh rolled high/critted or did you make one "MAP adoption roll" and fluffed the high result this way?
 
The temple is dedicated to the god of luck, who aids or hinders us all throughout our days, and in regards to the Coin we often make use of the Gambler. By building the temple we please Ranald and gain more of his favour, strengthening our endeavour to steal the language of the skaven and all other endeavours as well. Piety is worth committing to as something beyond being able to fit it into our schedule.
Would building a temple instead of helping Sylvania or the dwarves please Sigmar?
 
  1. Ah yes.

    Whenever Mandred's loved ones are dying, Ranald is sure to be there to lend a comforting hand. A better birthday gift I have not seen since the 13th fairy godmother.
    Ranald might have dropped the ball when it came to Abelheim's unfortunate accident, but at least he does something, unlike that useless yandere sigmar. Such as give us that coin or save us from shyish kebabs
 
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One thing I think will decide my voting next turn is whether people are choosing just to focus on Invisibility, or are doing the partial. Doing just invisibility will cost us an action, while the partial still avoids the negability at a similar rate, and keeps us on tract to learn all relevant spells in 2 turns.
 
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