Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
He'd start by looking at the diagrams and trying figure out what he can from that.
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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Nothing new, codebreaking unknown languages would give you the vocabulary via statistical analysis, aided by having labeled anatomical diagrams to use as a starting point. The word pointing at a chaos dwarf head is one out of ten possible words at most
Its ass boring patient work. I.e. the stuff Max is great at.
Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
And that gives you very limited returns for enormous amount of effort. Given that we have access to a native speaker, that is just a waste of action.
Moreover, I am not sure Max knows the methodology. Mathilde probably does, however.
NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
- Location
- Places
Ah yes a master of strength 10 teleporting runic greatswords is bound to be easy to get.
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Even if you don't know the language you can extract a lot of guesses from illustrated anatomy books.
NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
- Location
- Places
Saw some people discussing the usefulness or lack there of, of the protector face of the coin.
I feel like it's very situational but one place it might be very useful is when we go to Naggarythe to build up elf rep which is probably very hard to get.
I feel like it's very situational but one place it might be very useful is when we go to Naggarythe to build up elf rep which is probably very hard to get.
- Location
- Singapore
Quick comment here, and I hope I don't come off as too combative here though I would be blunt: this plan will find it hard to gain traction and be heavily contested for a few reasons.
1. Huge portions of the thread see learning invisibility as mandatory due to the outcomes of last turn's Spell Gatcha roll. Unfortunately, by not reserving any AP for learning invisibility, this means that large parts of the voter base would immediately be against you, as they don't want to risk a Nega-trait due to neglecting the conditions of unprepared.
- Essentially, this means we have 2 free AP, because Invisibility and Tower actions are seen as mandatory and urgent.
- It means if you want an All-in-Skaven plan, you only have 2 AP to play around with, which means your 3 AP Plan won't work.
2. Much of the thread might see the Skaven/Queekish written lexicon as something we should aim for and of urgent priority lest we lose Dwarf Favor/Rep, which WOG tells us would suffice. We have a partial Rosetta stone with the Chaos Dwarf Book, we have the Deceiver, and gathering more written materials is probably a loaded dice roll until that Lexicon is underway. Expect heavy dispute over Personal Action 2.
3. Personal Action 3 and 4 means THREE actions piled onto the Skaven/Queekish problem, two of whom may or may not be supporting actions depending on dice rolls. This is 3 AP in a thread where a large faction demand that AV be put forth onto the agenda, and another faction are pushing for the Shrine to the Gambler to go with an EIC monitoring the non-Undumgi, something that has become more urgent because of the influx of Umgi post Karagril and with the migration of the weavers. Three AP is a very large ask, and a commitment I can't see happening outside of Belegar making the Queekish lexicon our job.
4. Waagh Counters probably will face opposition from those that want: The ability of Alkharad to assume a projected form of mist. (FRESH)
- The Alkharad Mist technique is something that Mathilde probably won't be able to lay her hands on as readily, and there are possible arguments that Warrior of Fog means Mathilde could potentially extract personal development benefits out of a Mist Paper, up to and including escape options.
5. Penthouse Paranoia seems to be something that should gain traction, but I suspect a build tower and dig down faction might get rather vocal.
As for the AV Voters, I really do think that you are going to have to fight an uphill slog against snake Juice all the way until Belegar makes AV our job. I'd rather not research AV without Gambler, and if we are going to try anything with the Skaven, I suspect there's a big push to try the Deceiver, especially since the QM just showed us the downside of not trying Protector. So yes, I'm sorry, I'd have to pass on AV this turn, but I would probably strongly back a Project AV proposal to Belegar now we have a better idea what Belegar's real issue is.
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- Location
- Earth
Can I get a post reference for this? The research topics?
It should also be noted that Uglu magic is also related to mist. Smoke and Mirrors has been described as briefly leaving mist behind for example.
- Location
- Singapore
A native speaker who won't cooperate unless he believes we already have the language. Being able to recognize individual words is an important start.
Dropping the Skaven raid it is.
This is actively counterproductive. Queekish is the item we need specific prep for unless we have good luck AND Deceiver Bullshit.
It'd be much easier to get Queekish out of him if we have a partial Queekish vocabulary and a year of him getting used to talking to us
Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
Deceiver face makes it redundant. And I sincerly doubt that shaky knowledge if a small bit of written queekish is going to help us significantly when our primary method of communicating with prisoner is oral.
- Location
- Singapore
True, but this is still two more since I think this isn't a 1AP task over and done with this turn, but a two AP over two turns:
1. Teach Wolf to speak Presentia
2. Have Wolf learn Queekish
Short of a Nat 100, I don't see these two developments happening in One AP over one turn.
Also, it means we are spending two AP over two turns on the following:
1. Further cultivate the Skaven
2. Build the Lexicon.
Basically, you are proposing 4AP over 2 turns, and hoping that the thread commits to another 2AP Queekish action after next turn, something that isn't a guarantee, especially if something like the AV project get's Greenlighted. Plan that rely on multiple AP expedition over multiple turns to work aren't very secure plans, especially if there's no Project to bind them forward.
TLDR: Your plan is asking for four AP over two turns it seems, rather than One AP Over one turn Lexicon + Deceiver Plans are proposing. It's the sort of AP expenditure that probably requires a Project to convince the thread to shake loose, where AP shortage arguments have alot of traction as seen by the sometimes vehement anti-rifle opposition, which almost solely built on the dread of a multi-turn one AP sink.
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Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
Queekish can and should be the next project we handle. We've already caused multiple fronts to open up against the skaven and we need to make sure we can get every bit of advantage that they need.
AV as a task is a far more contested topic.
- Location
- Singapore
We'd have to wait for the next Project Vote, to be honest. There's also a case for Project Cartographer, so as to be able to verify how reliable the Intel we are getting is. The next Project Vote would definitely be interesting, but yes, I don't know right now how strong the support for Project Queekish really is vs AV and Cartographer (I assume Cartographer is the real big rival here), when there have been posts (though I confessed I'm one of those) that would rather aim to stop at the Lexicon then deport the Skaven to the Grey College.
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- Location
- Cara Fahd
[X] [TOWER] Complete
[X] [COLLEGE] No purchase.
[X] [DWARF] No purchase.
[X] [PURCHASE] No purchase.
[X] [LIBRARY] Plan no favour mines
[X] [COLLEGE] No purchase.
[X] [DWARF] No purchase.
[X] [PURCHASE] No purchase.
[X] [LIBRARY] Plan no favour mines
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Queekish is probably a lot more time sensitive than AV, I suppose I'd be willing to hold off on AV until we've dedicated a turn to the skaven prisoner to extract queekish. I do think this coming turn we should be spending an action and using the deceiver to start work on that queekish lexicon, if that means teaching Wolf Praestantia to get him up to spec on language so we can work on the requirements on the higher frequency range for skaven language then we'll have to do that.
- Location
- Australia
There's no temple construction in this plan, so you need to edit your plan.
- Location
- Singapore
There are already counter-arguments being marshaled against the Ranald Temple, so it's going to be a point of contention during the next turn vote. You need to consider how to address the arguments that the Ranald Shrine isn't time-sensitive, isn't necessary because we've done enough for Ranald, is a waste of AP, involves the human population which many see as none of our business, can be held off indefinitely, etc, etc.... since these are the premises non-Shrine plans at least implicitly accept, when advocating to sink AP into Aethyric Vitate related or Queekish related actions.
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I'm a strong advocate for Ranald temple and...I cannot honestly find a way to fit it in.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
nah. The flaw in the plan is the lack of invisibility which is why the raid action has to be taken out.
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
There is a reason there are still unknown written languages even though we have samples of them for hundreds of years. Even the Mayan language is only about 75% deciphered and we have 1000's of text samples.
Codebreaking is helped along a great deal when you know the basic grammar structure of the target language. It helps you slot words into the correct places. Frequency analysis would allow you to know which queekish words are more common in the text we have but not what those words mean. Any of the more powerful statistical methods for cryptanalysis were devolved during the 1800's. I find it likely that the empire is no where near such methods yet. The grey order may have more powerful methods of cryptanalysis but I bet they relay heavily on "magic" and not on statistics.
There is also the question of how one reads queekish. Do you read it left to right, right to left, or even up to down? I don't know if something even this basic about a language is known about queekish.
Lets look at the Mayan language for example. The Mayan language uses logograms which is an evolved form of pictograms which queekish uses. (Even that knowledge may be OOC.) Dedicated translation attempts of the Mayan Language started in the early 1800's and in 1832 the Mayan number system was deciphered. It was in 1959 that certain lines referencing births and deaths were deciphered. Even then they could not fully translate those texts. In 1973 people finally managed a complete translation of one dynastic list. Even to this day the language is not completely deciphered.
This by the way was the work of hundreds of scholars working together. To me the very idea that Max, a person who may not even have any knowledge of codebreaking, could achieve anything in six months is laughable.
Learning the queekish language in a time frame even approaching useful for the K8P reclamation will require a great deal of luck. It will require us deceiving or convincing (unlikely) our captive to help us. Given the captives apparent abilities we will likely both need to get lucky and use the deceiver token to pry the start out of him. Even getting a sentence out of him will make the deciphering of queekish leap years and years ahead. We will need to squeeze him as much as possible.
A possible solution is to steal mor transcripts and then lie to him about the grey order having already deciphered it but it is such a pain to go get those books. This may get him to start helping us. If it does lets be sure to lie to him about the number of Mor he helped kill. Hopeful eases the process for future translation. We use the newly decoded transcripts to start the translation of the book.
Another possible solution, if getting mor transcripts is proving difficult, is to pick random sections of queekish from the book. Same lie as before with the grey order. He will express confusion because the section makes no sense. Tell him if he can get it to a known language for us we can use grey order codebreaking magic on it. This may get him to start helping us. Then we can use the same lie about the mor clan rats he killed. We use the individually translated words to begin the translation of the book.
I believe that only by using our prisoner and book together will any meaningful progress be made. But we need to start with the prisoner. It is by far the best way to start this project. If we start with the book I shudder with horror at how long it will take to get anything useful.
- Location
- Australia
Swap out the looting and teaching Wolf to talk. We need to learn Invisibility, we have a temple to build, and we're not going to get Queekish out of Qrech this turn anyway. Besides that, honouring our god is worth delaying our acquisition of Queekish for six months if necessary. It feels wrong to go this long without building the temple.