That sounds pretty good to me to be honest, a dragon with familia attachments to the rulers of Ostland is a pretty good deal.
Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism
- Thread starter torroar
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I wonder if the dwarf built walls came with some kind of warranty
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Lord of Gifts
- Location
- Pittsburgh
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- He/Him/They/Them
They were built by Dwarves, to include a warranty is to state that your craftsmanship is subpar and may need to be replaced.
Besides our warranty is calling in those oaths of mutual defense so they can help us rebuild when this is over.
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I mean, they didn't last a decade iirc
I'm not saying there weren't somewhat extenuating circumstances but that's not a long time
Restalaan
What do you mean i am not a real cowboy?
Well, we can prob make some more renovation and stream line for Salketen like what we did to our Wolfenburg place. Make it better, bigger and more bay for our navy fleet (which we still havent build to full capacity).
Hopefully the light house also makes it after this.
Hopefully the light house also makes it after this.
I'm still expecting us to lose a significant portion of the city tbh. Better to be pessimistic about this because if it goes well we'll be happily surprised.
That's why I'm leaning towards selling the egg to the Caledorians.
Hmmmm... I'm wondering if we can find out who the dickhead prince's main rival is and sell it to him. With part of the agreement being that he has to rub it in the dickhead's face at every opportunity
That's why I'm leaning towards selling the egg to the Caledorians.
Hmmmm... I'm wondering if we can find out who the dickhead prince's main rival is and sell it to him. With part of the agreement being that he has to rub it in the dickhead's face at every opportunity
Aurellion might know that...
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Now, I'm not one for fantasies when we haven't even won the battle, but, hypothetically speaking: give it to Sadrina. She'll like as not take it to the Everqueen, who will have a chance to nurture and raise her own dragon where normally getting a dragon partner in the Dragonspine is a mess of being Caledorian and politics; a favor from her is worth more.
I liked Massgamers idea about giving to the Eonir, to the sisters of twilight
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Yeah the thought occurred to me as well, but they aren't exactly here to earn it. After all, Eonir aren't Asrai. Depending on what else we will get I'm currently in favor of giving it to the Eonir or Asur. Maybe give the Eonir the choice between the lance and the Dragon and give the other to the Asur/Caledor? We got options.
The more of them we kill the more loot we get. This must be what a dungeon feels like when he's killing adventurers.
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They likely are going on a soul search for a new dragon already. As is? We have no idea how close the Eonir are at this point to Athel Loren, nevermind offering up an egg to the Sisters directly.
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Oooh, this idea is definitely my preference now. That'd be two leaders of a civilization that Frederick would have provided mounts for! A cleansed Black Dragon that she raised herself would also be a very fitting mount for the wildest Everqueen in Asur history
Frankly I'm okay with giving it to either the Eonir or Asur.
I'd rather we didn't keep it for various reasons already mentioned in thread and eating it is right out. Just not an option.
I will say I'm somewhat concerned with how many people want to completely destroy the Arks. Not that I really blame them but I see any kind of boarding action as likely to be suicidal at best
I'd rather we didn't keep it for various reasons already mentioned in thread and eating it is right out. Just not an option.
I will say I'm somewhat concerned with how many people want to completely destroy the Arks. Not that I really blame them but I see any kind of boarding action as likely to be suicidal at best
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- Location
- Africa
assuming we beat the army outside our walls and deny them the chance to withdraw in order back to the arks then I would say the arks would be venerable enough to be stormed , they have already spent their cannon fodder and if we beat the proper dark elves before us their likely won't be enough forces left on the arks to opposes us if we storm them , plus I am relatively certain our mages can keep the arks pined in place long enough board in force
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- Winchester
There's a non zero chance it being hatched in a forest would result in it becoming a forest dragon.
Dragons are weird.
If we can entirely wipe out the army outside our walls without them retreating back into the arks then maybe we can get close enough to the weird plug things they have to die destroying them.
As far as I'm concerned that's the best case scenario
Nope.
Forest Dragons are the result of millennia of slumbering, living, dreaming, being spawned within, etc. their magical forests of Athel Loren and Laurelorn. There are currently Forest Dragons of Athel Loren that, yes, at some point in the distant distant past that used to be 'regular' dragons of the Old World and of Caledor.
But it took them at minimum centuries of slumber for the forests to steadily transform them and literally partially possess them, making them symbiotically connected to the forests in a way that not even the dragons of Ulthuan are to Caledor.
If you just yeet a regular dragon egg into the magical forests, there is in fact 99% chance it would not be a forest dragon unless it was kept deliberately suppressed from hatching for - again - centuries for the forest to form a connection to it in the manner required to be a true Forest Dragon.
Zedman7054
Eternally 3rd
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The best thing about all this Dragon talk is that it tells Torroar what caveats, rules, and vetoes he needs to put in place for the chapter proper on the 'what do with egg' vote.
And I'm already predicting all the stupid questions that have been answered already, asked again. The different kinds of thread madness quests develop.
And I'm already predicting all the stupid questions that have been answered already, asked again. The different kinds of thread madness quests develop.
On the other hand, if we get Urgdug to yeet a regular dragon egg into the magical forests, there is a 99% chance we wouldn't get a dragon from it at all
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Oh, okay then. Nevermind.
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- Somewhere
The druchii retreating isn't a real concern right now. I don't think they can retreat to Naggaroth. Not just because these two Black Arks have possibly defied Malekith's order to gather. The punitive strike on Ostland is something the druchii on these two Black Arks are strategically tackling, they have from the very beginning of the attack taken Ostland seriously, and been provided strategic information from the druchii information network.
Two Black Arks went for Ostland. Had the druchii not taken Ostland at all seriously they could have hit Nordland with two Black Arks, and the fleets of those two Black Arks. Shatter Nordland in the span of a month, or get utterly crushed by Nordland working with the Eonir. Nordland lacked the defensive settlement build-up of Ostland, and very much looked like the weaker target once you ignore the Eonir. A concentrated druchii attack that then swiftly moved onto Ostland is something I'd expect the druchii to have done. Immediately anihilate the target they can, take whatever minor losses there, then strike the hardest nut, then sail home. Ostland does not have the ship numbers to truly put up a threat to the Black Arks. Nordland kinda could put up a threat, but probably not. Had the druchii fully hit Nordland they might have pulled off the annihilation of Nordland with Ostland unable to assist due to Ostland concerns the druchii would hit Ostland's coast.
The druchii went after two targets at 'once'. Nordland got the druchii fleets that look like the minimum effort was put into the strike. Ostland got the druchii main force. The druchii chaff went first, then the druchii players began popping up. The dragon riders served as elite chaff to clear Ostland's side of the field of units that would affect the druchii troops. Had the druchii succeeded in the initial "wall break", the human forces at Salkalten would be struggling for every advantage.
The real concern is the druchii of the two Black Arks did not send two Black Arks onto Salkalten for a milk run. There is no retreat here for the druhii. Their pride is going to demand they bury Salkalten. To do something to transform their bruised ego into satisfaction. Unless Freddy is dead, I don't see how the druchii could ever order a retreat no matter how badly they may be handling things.
My concern is the druchii would rig the Black Arks to explode in a dhar explosion when they confirm they have lost without being able to significantly harm Ostland.
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Thinking about it, I think the reason there are more combat-y Naggaroth dragons and ones willing to fight on the Druchii side, versus the Ulthuan dragons being harder to rouse and harder to get to fight, is...
Is because Ulthuan dragons are like the equivalent of civil war veterans or WW1 and WW2 veterans. Storied and venerable and greatly respected people. People with their own opinions and thoughts and motivations. A society of people, too.
While the Druchii dragons are more like... gang members on PCP or methamphetamine. It turns out it's a lot easier to drag somebody to the battlefield if you do so in chains. Even if controlling them is a bit trickier. And of course a dragon is a very dangerous being anyway, so it's always skilled and ferocious in a fight. Not a society of beings so much as just another resource for the war effort.
That's sort of the difference in what they are; ancient respected heroes and veterans and sages, versus child soldiers or gang members with a bunch of guns.
On the one hand; restored dragon, yay, Caledor happy!
On the flip side; 'Instructions unclear, instead of stealing Druchii child and raising it as a Nagarythean, accidentally stole Druchii dragon and raised it as an Ulthuani dragon.' What a flex. What a giga flex.
More seriously though, I think that while of course the Asur would prefer to get it and would be very happy with us for doing so... I think -- depending on circumstances, how things turn out, and whether we get a boon from the Asur or can ask a boon or etc -- if we asked them "Hey, can you help cleanse this dragon egg for us and help us raise it?" they might be willing to do so. i.e. That since they care about Ulthuani dragons (and what the Druchii do to dragons!), they might be willing to make sure we "Treat them right" and be willing to send somebody to help us raise it. But it would probably require us using a boon, or asking for it, or etc.
Whereas if we handed it over to Ulthuan -- or to the Eonir -- we would be getting more good will/money/support/whatever.
Having a compound of Asur helping to hatch and raise a dragon could be really cool though. Or maybe they'd move to the Arcane Pinnacle and do the raising there, since that's an already-secure position. But, having more Asur around, would be interesting and neat. More investment from them. More trade or connections? Or chance to talk to or befriend more Asur? And decades in the future, having a dragon willing to defend Ostland. And also possibly still serving as a connection to the Asur too -- i.e. if we have a dragon that they helped raise and taught us how to care for said dragon, and then if some Asur stuck around because they wanted to, then we'd have Asur around in Ostland, and we'd have an interesting connection to Ulthuan that way. That is, being able to open dialogue with Ulthuan at times if need be. Having some to connect over with the Asur. Useful in times of stress or trouble or uncertainty.
Alternatively, if we give it to the Eonir, well, dunno if they'd turn it into a Forest Dragon like the others or if they'd keep it a normal dragon, but. How to turn this into something that we would jointly be doing though? Unless we ask them to help us rear the dragon instead of the Ulthuan elves... but they aren't the Ulthuani so who knows if they'd be as knowledgeable... plus the Eonir came to help us here so there isn't exactly a big boon to ask of them so (unless something happens in the Beast-tide) hrmgh. Eh.
Alternatively, I wonder if it'd be possible for Eldyra to become a dragonrider? She isn't a mage or a Caledoran though, so... It'd be cool though. ... Not sure if she'd have time for this though. In between being Tyrion's squire, then becoming a knight proper, then probably still being a companion and party member of Tyrion's.
All this is a bit too soon to know for sure though. Not only have we not dealt with the Beast-tide yet, we haven't even dealt with the Druchii yet. We haven't survived or thrived or won yet. Though I guess it's neat to speculate about.
Is because Ulthuan dragons are like the equivalent of civil war veterans or WW1 and WW2 veterans. Storied and venerable and greatly respected people. People with their own opinions and thoughts and motivations. A society of people, too.
While the Druchii dragons are more like... gang members on PCP or methamphetamine. It turns out it's a lot easier to drag somebody to the battlefield if you do so in chains. Even if controlling them is a bit trickier. And of course a dragon is a very dangerous being anyway, so it's always skilled and ferocious in a fight. Not a society of beings so much as just another resource for the war effort.
That's sort of the difference in what they are; ancient respected heroes and veterans and sages, versus child soldiers or gang members with a bunch of guns.
Heh. Who do you think would be happier about hearing of a reclaimed Black Dragon? The Nagarythians or the Caledorans will be most pleased by this?
On the one hand; restored dragon, yay, Caledor happy!
On the flip side; 'Instructions unclear, instead of stealing Druchii child and raising it as a Nagarythean, accidentally stole Druchii dragon and raised it as an Ulthuani dragon.' What a flex. What a giga flex.
More seriously though, I think that while of course the Asur would prefer to get it and would be very happy with us for doing so... I think -- depending on circumstances, how things turn out, and whether we get a boon from the Asur or can ask a boon or etc -- if we asked them "Hey, can you help cleanse this dragon egg for us and help us raise it?" they might be willing to do so. i.e. That since they care about Ulthuani dragons (and what the Druchii do to dragons!), they might be willing to make sure we "Treat them right" and be willing to send somebody to help us raise it. But it would probably require us using a boon, or asking for it, or etc.
Whereas if we handed it over to Ulthuan -- or to the Eonir -- we would be getting more good will/money/support/whatever.
Having a compound of Asur helping to hatch and raise a dragon could be really cool though. Or maybe they'd move to the Arcane Pinnacle and do the raising there, since that's an already-secure position. But, having more Asur around, would be interesting and neat. More investment from them. More trade or connections? Or chance to talk to or befriend more Asur? And decades in the future, having a dragon willing to defend Ostland. And also possibly still serving as a connection to the Asur too -- i.e. if we have a dragon that they helped raise and taught us how to care for said dragon, and then if some Asur stuck around because they wanted to, then we'd have Asur around in Ostland, and we'd have an interesting connection to Ulthuan that way. That is, being able to open dialogue with Ulthuan at times if need be. Having some to connect over with the Asur. Useful in times of stress or trouble or uncertainty.
Alternatively, if we give it to the Eonir, well, dunno if they'd turn it into a Forest Dragon like the others or if they'd keep it a normal dragon, but. How to turn this into something that we would jointly be doing though? Unless we ask them to help us rear the dragon instead of the Ulthuan elves... but they aren't the Ulthuani so who knows if they'd be as knowledgeable... plus the Eonir came to help us here so there isn't exactly a big boon to ask of them so (unless something happens in the Beast-tide) hrmgh. Eh.
Alternatively, I wonder if it'd be possible for Eldyra to become a dragonrider? She isn't a mage or a Caledoran though, so... It'd be cool though. ... Not sure if she'd have time for this though. In between being Tyrion's squire, then becoming a knight proper, then probably still being a companion and party member of Tyrion's.
All this is a bit too soon to know for sure though. Not only have we not dealt with the Beast-tide yet, we haven't even dealt with the Druchii yet. We haven't survived or thrived or won yet. Though I guess it's neat to speculate about.
Nah, I'm going to disagree with you here.
For a start, 2 Ark's attendant fleets is not 'minimum effort'. It's not the hilarious amount of overkill that comes from 2 Black Arks but it's absolutely not minimum effort. It's a significant force far beyond the typical raiders
As for why they didn't target one target at a time and instead spread the hits out, it's worth noting that we were extremely lucky to get the amount of warning we did. IIRC there was a priest of Manaan who literally swam miles fighting off sharks with crossbow bolts in his back to get the warning to us. Without that, Salkalten probably wouldn't be protected by a prepared Army of Ostland that knew they were coming. At best we might have been able to rush it up to the city. They also weren't expecting us to have fallen back several walls, something we only did due to having a handmaiden around who could tell us how the Arks were going to approach this. Basically, most of our defenders should have been dead there and then. Not only that, we have the notoriously isolationist Wood Elves who have not only turned up to help, but given us enough highly capable casters that we can counter most of their magical artillery.
Basically, the siege (as it is) is going completely wrong for the Druchii and they're gambling that throwing their main forces into the grinder will buy them a (relatively) cheap victory and they'll return with a bunch of slaves and our head. If that fails, it might be that they keep attacking but far more likely IMO is them retreating and instead going somewhere else for a few years/decades to get enough slaves hitting relatively undefended targets that when they return home they can buy their survival.
Hopefully their problems will be compounded by us ramming a fleet or 2 up their arses and doing severe enough damage to the Arks that the High Elves can find, catch and sink them
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