Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism
- Thread starter torroar
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Imperious
Without the sun of my life
Air forces have more then one aircraft at their disposal. Also one thing that sets apart a dragon and a griffon is that a dragon combines the ability to fly with a powerful ranged weapon via its breath attack, which makes the large majority of ground forces powerless against one, in contrast with a griffon which needs to drive us closer so we can hit them with our sword.
Still a dragon would be a generational project. It could be protecting the Empire long after Fredrick and Oskana are already dead, much as the Imperial Dragon outlived alll of its Imperial contemporaries from Dieter's time.
Of course for all we know the egg may be Dhar tainted, in which case I'd want to get it as far away from us as possible.
Still a dragon would be a generational project. It could be protecting the Empire long after Fredrick and Oskana are already dead, much as the Imperial Dragon outlived alll of its Imperial contemporaries from Dieter's time.
Of course for all we know the egg may be Dhar tainted, in which case I'd want to get it as far away from us as possible.
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A quick note on Oskana foods:
She is a big lady, yeah? With big needs.
And also, because mechanically, there seems to be a reason why only the highest nobility or those who can practically mind-meld with them have gryphon mounts in general for the Old World, whereas various wizards can have access to pegasi. Or in Bretonnia, many pegasi and hippogryphs. They're all smaller + able to graze for their food...except hippogryphs, who are also smaller.
She is a big lady, yeah? With big needs.
And also, because mechanically, there seems to be a reason why only the highest nobility or those who can practically mind-meld with them have gryphon mounts in general for the Old World, whereas various wizards can have access to pegasi. Or in Bretonnia, many pegasi and hippogryphs. They're all smaller + able to graze for their food...except hippogryphs, who are also smaller.
- Location
- Massuchusetts
...Wow. Osaka is bigger than I thought if her beak alone is big enough to literally bisect an entire cow with one bite. She's basically the Urgdug of Griffons.
Well, Imperial griffons are larger then Ulthuan ones and tamed one are larger then wild ones due to more reliable and plentiful nutrition.
- Location
- Massuchusetts
Its more that my images of imperial Griffins are more like this. Which depicts them as somewhere between a large lion and a rhino.
Oskana is chonky. I have repeatedly mentioned she is big, but what I mean by that is not simply that gryphons/griffons are big, but that she - Oskana - is big. I.e. even with other gryphons. Additionally, she benefits from the Hohenzollern Diet/Exercise plan, i.e. consuming VASTER quantities of calories than the average peer would normally have access to, coupled with a VASTER level of caloric burn through dire full-bodied exercise through sparring in its many varieties, plus flying outside of that. Frederick and the family are all a bit 'thicker' as a result of boosting their calories past solid foods thanks to the bountiful amounts of alcohol they drink, but the aforementioned brutal exercise sparring routines (multi-hour long fighting twice a day, I believe I've mentioned in the past) ensures that it is largely muscle and simple mass, not just bountiful fat.
(When Frederick got real sad and depressed when Natasha got all severely messed up from whatever happened to her at the Dawnstone Pinnacle, his physical condition degenerated heavily in just a few months due to various lifestyle components maintaining while losing the vital exercise/sparring periods)
Oskana has a bit of heft to her as well. She was trained in her early years off of prisoners and regenerating troll meat paired with being trained sort of Kislev-bear style, so she got extra meals as well as harsh training.
And as a reminder, when she went up against the Emperor's gryphon:
Oskana has never needed enchantment or whatever else to literally bite/claw boulders to gravel and powder, nor tear through full plate steel. That's just how sharp her claws and beak are, and how strong she's been, and frankly, a lot of mature gryphons are capable of doing such things if not to the same extent as her. Gryphons are terrifying predators to fully armored knights out in the wild normally. Emperor Magnus' gryphon has literally benefitted from things that Oskana never has had. An elven trainer. Literal consistent magical support and boosting by Patriarchs and Matriarchs of the Magical Colleges. Special alchemical brews from Chrace for beast improvement, things like that. And Oskana still outmassed and outclassed him due to the brutality of her upbringing and regular fighting by comparison to the frankly somewhat pampered fellow, even if he beat her in muscle bulk to muscle bulk. She, overall, had more bulk...and knew how to use it.
So...yeah.
When a cow is thrown at her, at the right angle, she can just sorta...bite.
That looks like a real young one, maybe. They can change phenotypically quite significantly. Deathclaw, for instance, has full on orange and black striped tiger back half. Oskana, meanwhile, has dark brown mountain lion back half.
When I think of gryphons in Warhammer, I think of the below images.
(When Frederick got real sad and depressed when Natasha got all severely messed up from whatever happened to her at the Dawnstone Pinnacle, his physical condition degenerated heavily in just a few months due to various lifestyle components maintaining while losing the vital exercise/sparring periods)
Oskana has a bit of heft to her as well. She was trained in her early years off of prisoners and regenerating troll meat paired with being trained sort of Kislev-bear style, so she got extra meals as well as harsh training.
And as a reminder, when she went up against the Emperor's gryphon:
Oskana has never needed enchantment or whatever else to literally bite/claw boulders to gravel and powder, nor tear through full plate steel. That's just how sharp her claws and beak are, and how strong she's been, and frankly, a lot of mature gryphons are capable of doing such things if not to the same extent as her. Gryphons are terrifying predators to fully armored knights out in the wild normally. Emperor Magnus' gryphon has literally benefitted from things that Oskana never has had. An elven trainer. Literal consistent magical support and boosting by Patriarchs and Matriarchs of the Magical Colleges. Special alchemical brews from Chrace for beast improvement, things like that. And Oskana still outmassed and outclassed him due to the brutality of her upbringing and regular fighting by comparison to the frankly somewhat pampered fellow, even if he beat her in muscle bulk to muscle bulk. She, overall, had more bulk...and knew how to use it.
So...yeah.
When a cow is thrown at her, at the right angle, she can just sorta...bite.
That looks like a real young one, maybe. They can change phenotypically quite significantly. Deathclaw, for instance, has full on orange and black striped tiger back half. Oskana, meanwhile, has dark brown mountain lion back half.
When I think of gryphons in Warhammer, I think of the below images.
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Also interesting, I wonder if Gryphons use mammalian XY sex chromosomes or the avian ZW. I wonder because she is female, and while in mammals females have the doubled XX chromosome and are generally smaller than males, in birds this is reversed. Females have the mismatched ZW chromosome pair and are generally larger than the males.
- Location
- Spain
Dammit, now I have to wonder what would have happened if, on top of being naturally bigger than most griffon´s and the Hohenzollern Diet/Exercise we have chosen the Mystery Box the first time we came to Laurelorn´s help and she had been enhanced by magic until she was like Deathfang in size and power...
@torroar I suppose that she is too old now to apply those enhancements, or she is still capable of being magically enhanced?
Besides that, the thing with birds of prey, in which the female is 20-30% bigger than the male also applies to griffons?
- Location
- United States
That would mean no Light of Summer, which means Freddy would have 100% died in Mountain Vietnam lol.
Oskana has already proven beyond a doubt that she's more than strong and viscous enough without magical enhancements, and as a several decades old adult I doubt anything long term would stick anyhow.
Griffins are also weird magical beasties; I wouldn't assume that regular genetics applies to them all that much.
- Location
- Spain
We actually could pick 2 boons as a reward, so we could have picked the Light of Summer and the Mystery Box...
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- Location
- Germany
And I'm very much satisfied with what was decided on. For all we know, Stephan might not have gotten the Eonir to help him if we hadn't picked the trade agreements.
Oskana has Runic Armor. That has to count for something.
Oskana has not yet given birth yet?
- Location
- United States
???
Octaine is fully grown by now and acts as Magnus's mount. That interlude torroar referenced was written 2 irl years ago lol
Oskana is chonky. I have repeatedly mentioned she is big, but what I mean by that is not simply that gryphons/griffons are big, but that she - Oskana - is big. I.e. even with other gryphons. Additionally, she benefits from the Hohenzollern Diet/Exercise plan, i.e. consuming VASTER quantities of calories than the average peer would normally have access to, coupled with a VASTER level of caloric burn through dire full-bodied exercise through sparring in its many varieties, plus flying outside of that. Frederick and the family are all a bit 'thicker' as a result of boosting their calories past solid foods thanks to the bountiful amounts of alcohol they drink, but the aforementioned brutal exercise sparring routines (multi-hour long fighting twice a day, I believe I've mentioned in the past) ensures that it is largely muscle and simple mass, not just bountiful fat.
(When Frederick got real sad and depressed when Natasha got all severely messed up from whatever happened to her at the Dawnstone Pinnacle, his physical condition degenerated heavily in just a few months due to various lifestyle components maintaining while losing the vital exercise/sparring periods)
Oskana has a bit of heft to her as well. She was trained in her early years off of prisoners and regenerating troll meat paired with being trained sort of Kislev-bear style, so she got extra meals as well as harsh training.
And as a reminder, when she went up against the Emperor's gryphon:
Oskana has never needed enchantment or whatever else to literally bite/claw boulders to gravel and powder, nor tear through full plate steel. That's just how sharp her claws and beak are, and how strong she's been, and frankly, a lot of mature gryphons are capable of doing such things if not to the same extent as her. Gryphons are terrifying predators to fully armored knights out in the wild normally. Emperor Magnus' gryphon has literally benefitted from things that Oskana never has had. An elven trainer. Literal consistent magical support and boosting by Patriarchs and Matriarchs of the Magical Colleges. Special alchemical brews from Chrace for beast improvement, things like that. And Oskana still outmassed and outclassed him due to the brutality of her upbringing and regular fighting by comparison to the frankly somewhat pampered fellow, even if he beat her in muscle bulk to muscle bulk. She, overall, had more bulk...and knew how to use it.
So...yeah.
When a cow is thrown at her, at the right angle, she can just sorta...bite.
That looks like a real young one, maybe. They can change phenotypically quite significantly. Deathclaw, for instance, has full on orange and black striped tiger back half. Oskana, meanwhile, has dark brown mountain lion back half.
When I think of gryphons in Warhammer, I think of the below images.
So our girl is bigger then the average Griffion and much more willing to do things that could get her wings hurt for example to win a fight got. The image from the army book does not look like a large lion to me but a lot bigger then that and the position of the Griffion and rider in the image makes it hard to gage scale.
I still don't see her eating more then a dragon but I also don't think it would cost more then double what it costs to feed to her to feed a dragon plus a Dragon would have more self control then our Eagle-Lion.
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A dragon might have more capacity for self-control, but in turn it has less inclination to make use of it or accept humans as its superiors, the way Oskana does with Frederick being her pack leader.
If we try to raise the dragon ourselves it's eventually going to start asking questions like "Why should I listen to a word that these fragile little monkeys are telling me?", at which point we'll have a choice of letting it go free and probably get killed by an errant dragonslayer and let the immense amount of resources we invested into it go to waste, or enslave it. Even for the elves the dragons usually consider themselves the senior partners in the relationship, and there's no guarantee they'll follow their lead. There have been multiple cases in the lore where a dragon will just throw off its rider and fuck off back to its cave if it doesn't like what the tiny person on its back is telling it to do.
Dragons are naturally arrogant and willful creatures, and that's for normal dragons, let alone one born from a black dragon egg.
Hence why I advocate we should give it to the Caledorians, they have an existing cultural and knowledge basis for raising and working with dragons, the ability to purify it of taint if needed, and the capacity to just let it chill on its own somewhere that it's not hurting anyone and nobody's going to hurt it, if it's not interested in being a warmount. It's better for both us and the baby dragon.
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It would not be easy but if the Empire by itself could figure out how to work with a Dragon in the future they it would not be impossible for us to do it especially if we ask for the Elf's help in doing. The deal we would have with the Dragon would allways be a compromise but they would I think respect us giving them shelter while they grew and a place to rest with out the chance something trying to jump them in their sleep, The relationship would not be about dominance but convincing the Dragon we were good allies to have. Offering the Egg to the Wood Elf's like our friends in the Lauralon or to the Sisters of Twilight is anther option but if we turn the egg over to the High Elf's I doubt the Dragon would ever see the Empire let alone Ostland again,
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- Location
- Africa
I'd rather give it to the wood elves them being elves with dragon riders of their own are perfectly able to take care of a dragon plus they actually helped us fight the dark elves and claim said egg in the first place , what did the Caledorians do to deserve anything from us ? , besides the time warped nature of their realms means their are glades said dragon can grow up to its full war potential in while only mere years could pass outside allowing said dragon to be factor in future conflicts while if we give it to the Caledorians it will be thousands of years till that dragon can be used for war well beyond the scope of this quest
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The Empire has two dragons in canon. Elspeth von Draken enslaved a Carmine Dragon with magic, while the Imperial Dragon was raised in captivity as a zoo animal which it resents, is kept under lock and key with a magically reinforced collar, has killed multiple stewards and zookeepers, and only lets Karl Franz ride it because he can "dominate its will", whatever that means but it certainly doesn't imply a happy interspecies friendship. I would not call that "figured out how to work with them".
No, we're probably not going to see it again if we give it to the Caledorians, but we're probably also not going to see it if we give it to the Asrai, and we don't even know if the Eonir keep dragons in DoDA (they do not in canon). It could, however, grant us far more immediately useful boons from Ulthuan.
Dragons do not take thousands of years to grow to war-useful size:
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- Location
- Africa
Deathclaw and Oskana are depicted to be closer in size to war elephants from my POV
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don't see the issue with not seeing the dragon again. We have not needed a dragon yet, we will never really need a dragon imo. It's only unique benefit is it's breath attack, but I personally do not believe the painfully vast sums of money that we'd have to waste on it would be worth it when most any enemy we'd be killing with the dragon can be killed in many other ways (like with the hordes of cannon we could get with the theoretical dragon money). And we definitely would be hemorrhaging money. Even if I'm wrong and it's only eating about as much as Oskana and Octaine does (which I sincerely doubt, Oskana was explicitly noted to be smaller than all three dragons here, and a dragon raised on the Hohenzollern regiment would grow to be a very big dragon indeed, very quickly, and would only grow larger and larger through age until we can't afford it) that that's still a shitton alongside two other expensive beasts already, and we would also likely have to account for other costs. Housing would be expensive, and it may want something like a hoard. Idk how Black Dragons and hoards work, but I'd be surprised if a dragon we raised didn't want a hoard to make it happy. And before anybody offers our treasury, we have a regular history of emptying our treasury often for exorbitant purchases, and I highly doubt the dragon would appreciate us spending so much of its gold as often as we do.