Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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I mean. I've definitely brought this up before multiple times in the thread about my feelings on technological advancement over the years. Like repeatedly.

To the point that I put it in the FAQ section? Like, when I mean multiple times, I mean it's been a major principle for literal actual years now. Going on for closer to a decade than not.

torroar said:
Just gonna quote myself here:

I'll be honest. Technological overdrive/creep is a major concern of mine, and has been for quite a long time. In my head, the progression goes from matchlocks, to wheellocks, to snaplocks, to snaphaunce, to flintlocks. And while wheel-locks may come about, I really just...I'm very leery of jumping all the way to flintlocks anytime soon. Mallus has weird technological progression, obviously, so I don't necessarily want to go beyond, like, the earliest 1700/1800's in terms of most tech...barring things that are stupendously simple like the road thing you brought up earlier. I acknowledge the possibility that my aversion to such rapid advancement might be going beyond the realm of normal reason, but...I don't know, atm. You've just started on getting really improved matchlocks, and next step will be, for certain, wheellocks. Even if there are examples of it already (dwarfs, most likely), the research for that would be for making them more affordable and cheaper to make. Doomspheres and Deathspinners are extant creations, to be honest, things that shouldn't work IRL but happen to do so on Mallus, same as the lightning horse and pure steam warfare gyrocopters n'such. I don't necessarily want to use them as examples for 'cost' in terms of materials or otherwise, right now. I don't even want to think about percussion caps or the like right now.

^This suffices, for the most part, but as a small addition: Technology can advance, sprout, etc. in different/various ways over time. It's true. Drunken inventions might create things laterally, or skip some steps here and there. Studying other technology bases might result in the same. But either way, just don't expect to somehow reach assault rifles and what not, let alone bolters, in any capacity or manner throughout the quest, okay?
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So, please, I get it. Don't ever think otherwise.
 
torroar said:
Said hairstyle was inspired by the dwarf engineer Valma Bronzeheart, who helped create the school at all, and and institutionalized by her two direct apprentices
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Odd place stutter.
torroar said:
What began as a small single building facility has massive expanded as the decades have gone on, with the school now resembling a sprawling complex of dormitories, manufactorums, storage areas, testing zones, and so on and so forth which stretches up and down the western third of the city.
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Massively?
torroar said:
The massive waterwheels of the School, all slung along its eastern side, plunge directly into the White Fang River, all to to power certain hammers and devices within the school.
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Another stutter
torroar said:
The second factor is a result of the reclamation of Karak Ungor, an the resettlement of the entire Goldeneye Throng and their camp followers.
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And?

Found some more, funny to bother.
 
Massgamer said:
Funny how Jade College magical healing is viewed more favourly than studying medicine, lol.
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Actually… with the amount of "testing" the Hohenzollerns have been doing for years now, the Jade Wizards of Ostland might actually have the most complete data on the human body as a human institution of Sigmar's Empire.

Now if they could apply some Hohenzollern backed applications to said data…
 
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Random question but, where is brain wounder? I just thought of it now and don't know what happened to it or even if Freddie still has it.
 
watcheye456 said:
Found some more, funny to bother.
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So those stutter things are part of why I've just stopped editing on mobile anymore, because the keyboard sometimes just relogs a word right back after you deleted it and all sorts of annoying things when trying to be precise in clicking and moving the line around with just fingers. But fixed now, thanks!

Thors_Alumni said:
Random question but, where is brain wounder? I just thought of it now and don't know what happened to it or even if Freddie still has it.
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Not random at all, no worries. Brain Wounder is still upon Frederick's person, see below:

torroar said:
Fine Druchii plates of armor have been carefully shaped and seamlessly connected around you with a careful application of Chamon and Aqshy by Hultressa, all of which makes you appear as a somewhat more squat and wide looking terror. You still possess Brain Wounder, and everything else, but for the moment all but the Runefang is disguised by it all.
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So Frederick still has it, and it's still Brain Wounder, but considering you're currently pretending to be the 'product' of a very powerful sorceress, who you saw has just a bunch of crazy powerful artifacts and baubles hanging around in her laboratory including major items of each of the Chaos Gods and then some it's not actually that out of this world for her to have ripped you apart and put you back together and use you using Brain Wounder on her enemies. That's classic manipulative 'do what I wish bwahaha' that Druchii get into.
 
MoonSerpent said:
Actually… with the amount of "testing" the Hohenzollerns have been doing for years now, the Jade Wizards of Ostland might actually have the most complete data on the human body as a human institution of Sigmar's Empire.

Now if they could apply some Hohenzollern backed applications to said data…
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True, especially considering the damage they put their bodies through on average during their usual training to point where are Jades are kinda annoyed by it, lol.
 
An omake I've tossed around before is one of the Jade Magisters writing out a book based on what they've learned over the course of their healing, with notes on some of the particularly extreme injuries and the like. Unless I've already sprinkled that in somewhere. But it's still something that might or might not happen depending on things.

Because, yes, it's not the same thing as dissections, which is obviously necromancy and thus very bad. Allowing them only became a thing more acceptable in Tilea/Estalia recently in the 2500s.

Vivisections, on the other hand, even if inadvertently because Natasha carved Frederick open from throat to groin during a full contact spar, is something else.

"Well the appendix keeps growing back during blanket regenerative healing, so clearly it has some function or the body wouldn't keep thinking it's part of the greater system!"
 
Freddy and co contributing to medical science by giving the Jade Magisters all the experience they could ever want about human anatomy. It ain't heretical if it's just healing!
 
torroar said:
All the high priests and priestesses of Manann across the entire Old World as well as some of the lower ranked ones got visions which generally depicted her coming from the sea itself to put things right. Which is exactly what happened. Some saw a storm who's thunder boomed with her voice coming as a moving maelstrom that ripped up a forest of rotten trees along the beach. Others saw lightning explode tainted sea-life that was diseased and consuming each other while cleansing waters from the tide washed the tainted meat and bone pieces away to be cleansed over a thousand year of water currents. Some saw a faceless woman on a ship made of water crashing through icebergs filled with pus and rot and other unspeakable fluids that had been filling up the harbor.

So on and so forth.

Then she did show up, and the first thing she did was strike down all of the previous High Patriarch's guards with Manann's divine lore, forcing them to drown standing up as their own organs were crushed by deepsea pressure inside their skin and blood spewed from their orifices. She grabbed the High Patriarch who's corruption and failures of inaction and inattention, and ripped from him all divine authority which very clearly was shown to everyone in the Cathedral and the streets of Marienburg as she dragged him along without him able to offer any resistance to her at all, whether physical or divine with his own prayers guttering out like weak whispers, and then took him to the water.

And then she drowned him in the water, seaweed cord ropes wrapped around his neck.

Do you know how fucked you have to be as a major Manann priest to drown?

After that she got up, and set to work immediately, and all the staff of the main centerpoint of the Cult of Manann upon which the international Cult spins about universally acknowledged her thanks to their own visions and signs from Manann. Full bore. A flight of albatrosses flew over the city for days before she arrived, and when the High Patriarch sought to call to them - this divine bird of his God - they flew to him and then dropped dead all around him. The worst possible omen for Manann's faithful.

Many priests received the vision of the drowning man, universally considered to be a sign from Manann of dire warning speaking of needing to change one's ways, especially if the priest is the one doing the drowning.

And the one doing the drowning was the High Patriarch. Repeatedly.

And then Magdha came and drowned him. She was the storm that was approaching, the tide that was coming in, the rocks of the waters that destroyed the ships overburdened with corruption, the albatross who bit off the throat of the protestor, the purified ship sailing in, and more.

She's the most powerful and favored Manannite in a long, long time, born by the most faithful, raised by them, of them, for them, and drinks seawater and has never touched bare land, even now, thanks to her armor and all that. She's not something or someone that comes around except every few generation.

That's how pissed off Manann was that he threw her at the problem.



Undoubtedly, though it might be something that the Kislevites specialize in more than others elsewhere.



I'm not going to tell you about stuff that hasn't happened.
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Holy shit, what did the High Patriarch DO?
 
You'll never be told this in-person, but he was using the Holders of the Shore as proxy tools to cajole merchant concerns, independent trading vessels, and so on that didn't want to enrich his coffers and those of his agents properly. Like, oh no, your ship burned down, your warehouse on the shore burned, oh no, sorts of stuff. Anyone who didn't do what he wanted in a timely fashion across the Old World, basically, at least the kinds of people he could reach i.e. anyone on the shorelines or rivers.

Basically running a massive protection racket/racketeering scheme across the water-based economic sectors for multiple nations. Not a huge amount, not a whole lot, but when you're doing it across Kislev, the Empire, Bretonnia, Tilea, Estalia, the Border Princes, and Araby, it adds up. It adds up to a lot.

Also, he rationalized it by pointing at other major religious extremists, like the Shallyans who abhor all comfort for themselves at all times - like never sitting in any chair, hairshirts, etc. - and so on who aren't immediately struck down for heresy by their Gods. Also, sacrifices to Manann can and have been ships, technically. So really, they're still sacrificing to Manann and honoring Manann, yeah? You get it?

Also, mix in a bit of manipulation from Heart-Taker, other Chaos cults, a bit of Yellow Fang here, some Azurian Clothiers there, and bingo bango oops they realized you've been manipulating them for your own gain.

Go go mega shore burn.
 
torroar said:
Because, yes, it's not the same thing as dissections, which is obviously necromancy and thus very bad.
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Does this extend to Morrities attempting to figure out causes of death if unclear or Shallyans trying to figure out what could have done to save patients?

I would think if any cults could get a pass on that it would be those two.
 
Massgamer said:
Does this extend to Morrities attempting to figure out causes of death if unclear or Shallyans trying to figure out what could have done to save patients?

I would think if any cults could get a pass on that it would be those two.
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That was partially a joke, my man. If many Shallyans already consider surgery in general butchery, vivisectioning is not likely to be popular, like, at all.

Morrites of the Empire are also pretty against wiggling around the inside of a body as well, dude. I kind of had a big post talking about it a short while ago?
 
Massgamer said:
I saw, just checking. Sorry about making you repeat yourself.

Not a huge issue in a setting with magical healing that we have access to, was just wondering.
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I mean, I get it, but it was, literally, in the big post beforehand. IC, up until Arthur, the Cult of Morr tried very much to not involve itself overly with the affairs and issues of the living, outside of one of their extremist Cults which believe it a blessing to die and think that you should never ever ever have medical care for anyone or anything. No medicine, no surgery, no teas that are restorative, especially no healing magic, because all of that is taking someone away from their naturally appointed time of death. They're not, as a rule, going to be happy with a live vivisection of a human being just because they might be alive at the end. 'attempting to find out causes of death' with that makes no sense given what I already said. If absolutely necessary, there are Morrite spells to literally speak with the dead, for one thing, and for another, they're not going to know what the heck an aneurysm is or whatever as a rule. When it comes to dead people, they might hold off on the preparations for internment and burial so that a Witch Hunter or investigator can poke at the body. And dealing with a lot of dead people for a long enough amount of time could let them discern some things, sure, like knowing what strangulation looks like in different degrees or whatever, or certain wounds on the body. But pawing over it too much like a straight up police mortician would be sort of grody for a lot of Morrites, and that's just the facts. Shallyans, again, very many of them regard surgery on living people as butchery, escalating that to vivisection is not going to be any better. Like. I figured that should have been pretty clear, is all, you know?

You know me, man. I like to be thorough and explicit whenever possible on these sorts of things, so I'm mostly concerned that I wasn't explicit and thorough enough on the previous post here.
 
A Bit on Morr, Morrites, Fanaticism New
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    • Mmm, admittedly, on review of Tome of Salvation, the Doorkeepers only became militantly opposed to healing and all that stuff in the 2400s after Ingrund the Grim took command of the sect:

    The Doorkeepers were originally a group within the Cult of Morr that militantly opposed necromancers and the Undead. However, a century ago Ingrund the Grim rose to prominence in the group, due to her courage and determination in fighting the abominations, and turned it into a dangerous group of fanatics.

    Ingrund argued Undead were not blasphemous because they had been dead, but because they had been snatched from Morr's realm. Similarly, necromancers were evil not because they dealt with the dead—priests of Morr also dealt with the dead—but because they drew people from Morr's realm. Ingrund pointed out that doctors and Shallyan healers also drew people back from Morr's realm, healing those who would otherwise have died. She argued this made them as evil as necromancers, and those they had healed as blasphemous as Undead.

    The Doorkeepers (so-called because they believe they guard the doors to Morr's realm) thus started a campaign of murder against doctors and Shallyans who healed those with dangerous wounds, and against the healed. Within a year they were discovered by the cult authorities, denounced as followers of Khaine, and hunted down. Ingrund escaped, convinced that the reaction of the cult proved it had been suborned by the Dark Gods. The sect survives, scattered across the Empire, and continues to work against those who blaspheme against Morr. That includes necromancers and the Undead, although as doctors are easier to find, and less well defended, they still make up the greater part of the sect's victims.
    ----
    So that's fucking wild, right? Blatantly going after healers of all stripes because they basically equivocate them to necromancers. Wild stuff, but that's Warhammer.

    On the other hand, the Blessed of Morr, are so sure that death is the place of peace, plenty, and pleasure, that death is THE thing to look forward to. It's noted that said general belief is not actually unique to the Blessed of Morr, and that it appears in regular people spontaneously, out of nowhere, or when they reach the end of their rope I guess. So those kinds of people spontaneously commit suicide in holy places of Morr in hopes 'it will speed their entry to his realm'. On the other hand, the Blessed of Morr think that killing yourself is super impious and lame, and that you have to SUFFER to be worthy to enter Morr's Realm.

    Specifically, that upon SUFFERING enough, Morr will kindly draw you into his realm of eternal bliss, it just depends on how much suffering is needed for which soul. So they are constantly harming themselves with pain, but are less public than most flagellants. Shoes, belts, spikes on the inside. Abrasive clothes to rub skin raw and beyond. Jobs that are incredibly hard, painful, or dangerous.

    But because they're inward focused, unlike the future Doorkeepers of the 2400+ IC, very few Morrite priests waste effort on the Blessed of Morr because sooner rather than later they essentially take care of themselves.

    What I'm saying is, of course, is that religious fanaticism and beliefs can get really, really serious in Warhammer. Such as many Shallyans considering any surgery at all from removing a tooth to a limb to a toe to be base butchery, or some Morrites thinking that you should have died ten years ago to that cough but you took that EVIL medicine and are a HERETIC and should DIE for denying Morr with your WICKED WAYS.
     
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    • One thing that needs doing is sending Jhoanna after the sorceress that went to the docks. Cause if it is Magda, she may well take control over the cult of Mantlatan there and would that be a funny situation, we do not want Alysssa followers messing with. So might as well send our vampire to hunt them down.

    Edit:
    Also wow, battle fields medics as we know them could be considered both blessed by Shallaya and damned by Morr. Weird.
    Hopefully Artur can punch down on the more dumb of those belives. After all it does benefit the Empire when the wounded survive
     
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    watcheye456 said:
    One thing that needs doing is sending Jhoanna after the sorceress that went to the docks. Cause if it is Magda, she may well take control over the cult of Mantlatan there and would that be a funny situation, we do not want Alysssa followers messing with. So might as well send our vampire to hunt them down.
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    Johanna is with Freddy's group working at the current task of rescuing the handmaiden. She cannot be sent elsewhere at this time, and events at the auction can still devolve into a fight where Hultressa did not come with the greatest equipment utilizing some of her impressive resources acquired across her life to make really good equipment or scrolls. We'll need Johanna to help protect Hultressa, or to get word back on what happened and try to salvage the plan if everyone else dies.
     
    That is not how Mortification actually works, that is how some atheists and anti-theists think it works. The suffering is not the point, it is a means to an end. If suffering becomes the point then that is considered bad or even outright a sin. Which you know fits with the idea of Flagellants being utterly broken by the world of Mallus.
     
    Dmol8 said:
    That is not how Mortification actually works, that is how some atheists and anti-theists think it works. The suffering is not the point, it is a means to an end. If suffering becomes the point then that is considered bad or even outright a sin. Which you know fits with the idea of Flagellants being utterly broken by the world of Mallus.
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    Why are you bringing atheists into this discussion? Not trying to start an argument just asking because it doesn't seem prevalent to the discussion.
     
    It's how the Blessed of Morr think things work, so it's not really a matter of what IRL mortification works or what IRL atheists or anti-theists think, though.

    That's how this specific divergent sect of Morrites think and perceive things. So it's not really a matter of whatever mortification 'actually works'. Because how it 'actually works' for the Blessed of Morr is how it works for them - the more suffering, the swifter you will be brought to Morr's Realm of bliss beyond the grave, but killing yourself outright is a sin.

    That's...just how it is for them.

    Humble Ones of Ranald will ruin people's lives to the point of ensuring their executions, Chaos accusations, burning at the stake, because they decide to go after anyone who is wealthy or prominent. Plague Wardens are faithful Shallyans who deliberately break with Shallya's will and edicts by actively killing someone with the plague, or burning down homes or more. They struggle to cast their spells like other Shallyans might as a result, but see this breaking of a central Shallyan tenet and subsequent casting of Divine magic difficulties as a test by Shallya.

    On and on it goes.

    It is how the divergent of the faithful work on Mallus, that's just...how it is.
     
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