Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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Shit like this is why SV is the worst of the three forums I go on.
The GM repeats shit over and over and over and people still bitch and whine like children.
 
[X] Plan Not Killing Ourselves
-[x] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
-[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
--[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (Write-In How Many If Any/Which Greatships) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
---[X] All the Greatships
-[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
--[X] Five-Tined Hunter: A wolf ship of the Cult of Manann that sails regularly against corsairs, pirates, worshippers of Stromfels, Druchii, and so on. [Dangerous/Appeasement/Approval Gain]
 
qwolfs said:
???
I don't disagree with what Fredy needs to do, I'm accepting the premise, it isn't a long argument against this happening at all. I just think she's got balls for pulling it off.
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qwolfs said:
The sheer balls on this woman, threatening Ostland and Fredy with economic ruin because of a minor, singular over reaction to their nation wide organised terrorist attack which they haven't even paid reparations for.
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This. Is. NOT. WHAT. HAPPENED!!! FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME!!!

...Sorry, I think I'll take a break too now.
 
qwolfs said:
[X] Plan Not all the Great Ships

The sheer balls on this woman, threatening Ostland and Fredy with economic ruin because of a minor, singular over reaction to their nation wide organised terrorist attack which they haven't even paid reparations for.

But whatever, if she can pressure Fredy using her followers as a cudgel he can do the same. By taking the highest personal risk and publicly undergoing extreme penance he can effectively force her into using Ostlands ships in Ostland, as failing to respect his show of faith would undermine her and her cults position as leaders of Manaans faith.

That's the danger of relying on religious arguments, when the other side can make a comparable religious claim you have a very hard time saying no.
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God I wish you could read. torroar has posted quite possibly thousands of words on the subject, there's pages of discussion about why she is in fact, incredibly lenient. And you had to do was read and apply some empathy.
Edit: changed wording and fixed autocorrupt.
 
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[X] Plan Not Quite ALL the Way

Jesus christ this was the quest that got me into SV. And now I remember why I don't comment and discuss things. It seems to attract the most stubborn lot of people. It pains me at that QM has to deal with this.
 
Hey, Caesar here.

I haven't been following this quest since the beginning. Came about recently, actually. I've enjoyed it thoroughly despite being a lurker and I never really get involved in drama.

But some of you are assholes.

I won't say names or point fingers, but seriously. Torroar is the GM. Their word is LAW. They can be civil and accept criticism and feedback, they can accept certain mistakes and try to fix them. But when the GM says something is fact and gives fairly good reasons (even canon reasons) for why this is a thing then that is the situation. No if ands or buts.

You can ask for clarifications or corrections. But those of you who want to sit on your high horse and sneer down at us. Those who would rather be right than suspend their belief and have fun. Those who would fight tooth and nail just to die on their hills than accept they might be wrong. You are the reason.

The reason people like torroar drop amazing and engaging quests. The reason threads plunge themselves into lethal amounts of toxicity. The reason that some people never engage and lurk because you might be waiting to pounce on them.

I would not blame torroar for dropping the quest because of you, but I would hate for that to actually happen. It shouldn't have to but it could just because you would rather win an argument than not be a jackass.

I'm sorry if what I said offended some of you or violated some rule, but it needs to be said. Now you can either continue whining and shouting about how mean Manann is being and how torroar didn'talso include that one important incident in some part of the lore the writers forgot about, or you could just try and plan around this new obstacle.

This is not a lose-lose situation. This is a problem that we can fix. It won't be easy but it can be. So let's solve it.

Sorry again.
 
Those worried about 'losing' the greatships need to consider that Ostland will not actually be losing all the greatships, even if we donate them to the cult.

It was hinted at, and the QM previously backed it up, that Maghda would not leave Ostland without defenses. If we give the cult all the greatships the more say she'll have in the cult. She is not the sort to leave the faithful defenseless so Ostland will not lose the protection of all the greatships, even if we donate them all.

What it is is the greatest material show of contrition to the cult and the greatest demonstration that Frederick is willing to cooperate with the cults for the good of the Empire and its peoples.

qwolfs said:
[] Plan Not all the Great Ships

The sheer balls on this woman, threatening Ostland and Fredy with economic ruin because of a minor, singular over reaction to their nation wide organised terrorist attack which they haven't even paid reparations for.

But whatever, if she can pressure Fredy using her followers as a cudgel he can do the same. By taking the highest personal risk and publicly undergoing extreme penance he can effectively force her into using Ostlands ships in Ostland, as failing to respect his show of faith would undermine her and her cults position as leaders of Manaans faith.

That's the danger of relying on religious arguments, when the other side can make a comparable religious claim you have a very hard time saying no.
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Are you kidding me? Maghda didn't threaten us with economic ruin. We already knew that economic ruin was coming simply because Manann's followers are pissed and/or too scared to work with us.

She is offering us a way out and to fix this for everyone's sake.

Woooinion said:
I think that I voted for an earlier version of the plan.

When I voted for it, it appeared to include the maximum of everything except that it only gave up 2/5 great ships.

Since the Matriarch seemed to imply that doing the max keel-healing would be enough on its own, the extra stuff seemed like the "over the top element" that should silence everyone we need to as much as we can hope to.

Since it seems that the keel-healing has been dialed back, I'll probably need to pick a different plan. I'll wait till later to do it though, since I get the feeling a lot of plans are going to fluctuate.

So long as it's nothing crazy, like making up conditions that the Matriarch didn't even suggest, in order to make it worse, I think it's been pretty thoroughly demonstrated that Frederich can take the pain of the max keel-healing.

The reason that keel-healing would be absolutely lethal in our world, is that they were guaranteed to get killed by infection, or drowned. Infection isn't going to happen because magic, and drowning isn't going to happen either, because the matriarch isn't interested in a war with Ostland. She would be acting against her stated (be GM and in character) intensions if she didn't make sure we didn't get drowned by some fanatic's dawdling.

When you get down to it, it's not all that much worse than needing to flense out our own throat and mouth in order to get our sense of taste back after guzzling used engine geese.
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It's important to keep in mind that the keelhauling and greatships will satisfy different factions. The greatships will satisfy the majority of the priesthood and those interested in cooperation among the Empire and cults in general (including the Emperor most likely). The keelhauling will satisfy the masses and zealots, and it's best to go all in to satisfy as many of them as possible and silence the few that aren't . You do not want vocal zealots against you.

So we want to go all in on both to get the max benefit in appeasement and rep, and blessing from the cult and Manann.

Good point on WHF keelhauling not being real world keelhauling. It's more survivable in general.

Also keep in mind Frederick is a little bit superhuman in toughness without anything else. But he also has a healing necklace, services of a Jade Wizard, a fortune point, and a fate point available.

We don't need to worry OOC about the keelhauling.
 
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flotter said:
God I wish you could read. torroar has posted quite possibly thousands of words on the subject, there's pages of discussion about why she is in fact, incredibly lenient. READ NiIGGA, READ!
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I've read them, I even agree with what he wrote.

An unreasonable faction within her cult will cut off Fedy and Ostland from significant and important economic tools. She cannot overrule them, therefore he must commit an unreasonable penance that will at minimum cost a significant amount of personal suffering or governmental wealth.

That she can't control her cult doesn't make it okay, it just makes it necessary.
That she doesn't want to make the threat, doesn't mean the threat isn't being made.
 
qwolfs said:
???
I don't disagree with what Fredy needs to do, I'm accepting the premise, it isn't a long argument against this happening at all. I just think she's got balls for pulling it off.
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She is going out of her way in being amicable and generous, aiming to solve a problem before it becomes a much worse problem. She is obviously not trying to extort us for all she can.
 
Should one of us take the initiative and send out distress signals for the Mods to come down with their HAMMERS? That might be the best course of action for now, given that a lot of people here are souring the mood of the thread.

Also, could we potentially do an action pertaining on wrestling underwater with Sharks later? I'm sure that Urgdug would appreciate the chance to gain a new title. :V
 
Torroar doesn't have to put up with this bullshit, and frankly I give him all the respect in the world for putting up with this for as long as he has.
americanCaeser said:
I won't say names or point fingers,
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I disagree with this. They need to be named and shamed so they get in their heads that their bullshit is not welcome here.
americanCaeser said:
This is not a lose-lose situation. This is a problem that we can fix. It won't be easy but it can be. So let's solve it.
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I KNOW RIGHT?!?!? This isn't the end of the world but these fucking Eldar get so fucking prissy over completely manageable difficulties. And this is after we had a massive hype off with the beastman! I was looking forward to this whole Marvelous Marienburg! I wasn't the only one! But people like @Acolyte can't help themselves, because that means giving up their PRIDE, and somehow these morons are more stubborn than everyone's favourite Prince of all Eight Saiyans.
notbirdofprey said:
Can these guys just get banned?
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HEAR HEAR!
 
Massgamer said:
Can someone tell me what Plan Not All the Way entails? I can't find that it votes for.
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I got u fam.
Travler66 said:
For people who don't know the difference in the leading plans, I'll list them:
  • Plan: All In, As Usual has us give all our Greatships to the Cult and do the most extreme Keelhauling option and the most dangerous. (Triton's Fury)
  • Plan Not Quite ALL the Way has us give three of our Greatships and do a lesser Keelhauling option, but not as dangerous. (Marvelous Maisel)
  • Plan Not all the Great Ships has us give two of our Greatships and do the most extreme Keelhauling option and the most dangerous. (Triton's Fury)
Remember to vote by plan and not by action.
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On a side note, the GM confirmed that we can also take an option that allow us to construct multiple Greatships at once IF we take the donate ships to Manaan (Unsure how many but it's a possibility, so at least for the next turn, we can recoup our navy Assets AND perhaps, have Magdha sent those donated Greatships to patrol our Waters for the moment until we got our Greatships back.).

That and don't forget, we've been trying to spread the Greatships design across the Imperial Navy, this is a good chance to do so.
 
Information: Enough
  • Staff Post
    • enough
    Enough! If you can't stop acting like children, you'll be put into time out like children.

    I am locking this thread for the moment. When @torroar decides they want it reopened, they can report this post or otherwise contact a member of staff.

    Moreover, after having seen the seventeen different posts reported over the past 12-18 hours, I want to say this: y'all just need to stop. I have seen a whole slew of reports of people who are upset that other people are upset. There's nothing against the rules about being upset or about wanting to send a quest in one direction or another. Nor do you have to fight with others. If you don't agree with what someone is saying, you are not obligated to engage with them.

    Cool it down. That is all.
     
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