Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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Altom said:
And rightfully so. I have reread that fight recently, and while we ended up completly owning Tullaris that only really happened because we rolled 6 on on our 6+ ward save twice.
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Yeah, like Eldyra, he had a better martial stat than Freddy does. But at this point we have a full set of magical equipment that provides passive and active buffs. Which is pretty damn rare, and the equipment made the difference.
 
At the same time, he had the First Draich, and Death Thorn, and explicit empowering blessings from Khaine, and about 1000+ years of experience to hone his abilities, plus Druchii-made masterwork armor.

So, really, it's hard to say.

If you cut Khaine off from empowering him, and took away his special super Khaine blessed sword, and the masterwork Asur blade, and also Frederick didn't have Brain Wounder/Gauntlet/Light/Armor, and they're just two naked dudes in a room with no Gods and no magic, then...like...who can say who would win?

Even Malekith has his super mega special armor and sword and magic n'what not.

At the end of the day, in Warhmmer, you got what you got.
 
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Moving on, I wonder how Eldrya will react to Johanna and the fact that Freddy is friends with two vampires who practice self-restraint which is not common for their type of undead.

I was always curious how elves viewed vampires and necromancy in general since its a purely human invention as a whole.
 
Always did find it curious that there are elves obsessed with eternal youth, when that's almost a default for elves.

EDIT: Always, not also, darned phone posting. Made me look like I didn't already know that it's a thing!
 
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Massgamer said:
Moving on, I wonder how Eldrya will react to Johanna and the fact that Freddy is friends with two vampires who practice self-restraint which is not common for their type of undead.

I was always curious how elves viewed vampires and necromancy in general since its a purely human invention as a whole.
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Hmm. This is a question that deserves a lot of critical thinking, good strong backing in knowledge of Warhammer, and extensive mastery over elven personalities, language, and characterization.

Sounds like a job for someone with a real good noodle about such things...

Observe, as I offload any critical thinking on my part by essentially propping up a better Warhammer writer than myself into said expository position:

Blackout said:
Vampires are ageless, but they rarely get any respect in the immortality pecking order because the vast majority of them don't live long enough to take advantage of that longevity.

In fact, if you count the newborn vampire as a separate person, vampires probably have a lower median life expectancy than humans. Only the cunning and the strong-willed survive long enough to master the thirst, most die when they draw too much attention to themselves or bite off more than they can chew.


Fanriel knows about vampires on an academic level, but she has never met one. The Asur as a whole are fully aware of vampires, they fought against Mannfred Von Carstein in defence of Marienburg during the Third Vampire War.

Prevailing Asur opinion is something along the lines of "only humans could conceive of such spectacular methods to kill themselves and spawn monsters out of their corpses." But on the whole vampires are not really a priority for elves because, well, they're not really a problem for them. There are no known elf vampires, and human vampires don't like picking fights with elves because while not as strong or tough they are equally fast, they have magic to counter their Necromancy (they really don't enjoy having a High Mage cast Drain Magic on their skeleton horde), and every elf is sensitive to magic so unless the vampire has learned to conceal the Dhar vortex they have in place of a soul they are usually pretty quickly detected.
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Blackout said:
Elves don't have quite the same kind of ingrained visceral hatred of undead as, say, the Empire, but they are still Dhar-powered abominations against the natural order.

At least the reaction would be less extreme than Chaos, Druchii or Greenskins.
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Blackout said:
As I've mentioned previously, there's Necromancy and then there's Necromancy.

One covers any magic used to manipulate mortal souls or bodies after death, the other is a school of dhar-based magic invented by Nagash.

The Druchii make use of the former, same as the High Elves (although in a more restrained manner) and many others who use Shyish. However, they would never use the latter, for the simple reason that it was invented by a human, and furthermore elves are uniquely ill-suited to practicing Nagash's teachings.

It is a brand of magic that resonates with the emotion of "I don't want to die. I want to defy death itself.", the same feeling that drove Nagash on the long road to becoming the Great Necromancer. And if there's one thing humans are better at than elves, it's being afraid of death. Certainly, elves are afraid of death, especially of the violent kind, and so they are capable of learning Necromancy if they really try, but it would be a struggle for them to grasp what comes easily, almost instinctually to humans.

Elves simply fundamentally lack the psychological capacity for the kind of scrambling, desperate need to prolong your own life that comes from knowing you have only a scant few decades to live.
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Blackout said:
There is a Blood Gift (vampiric superpower) that makes them invisible to Magesight. That much even Fanriel knows, though the elves are not particularly familiar with vampires.

The biggest thing to know about vampires is that there is no surefire universally applicable way to detect or defeat them. No two vampires are exactly the same, so what works on one has no guarantee of working on another.
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So basically most elves view vampires as weird human science experiments and mostly ignore them unless they actively get in their way, which most vamps are smart enough to know not to do.
 
How Elves Regard Vampires
  • Informational
    • I'd perhaps make the small addendum that at the time that I wrote those posts I had completely forgotten about the Vampire Coast, so in hindsight I may have oversold how unfamiliar the Asur are with vampires a little, since Harkon's undead fleets would be regular encounters in the southwestern Great Ocean.

    With the benefit of hindsight I would perhaps have worded things slightly differently, but I still stand by the gist of what I wrote, which is that elves have substantially less strong feelings about vampires than humans. They're still Dhar-powered abominations that stand as testament to yet another way in which humans have messed up the world that is the elves' to safeguard and shepherd, but at the same time, vampires have never been an existential threat to the elves the way the Von Carsteins have been to the Empire; even Luthor Harkon is at best a nuisance, a raider that takes his pound of flesh every so often but has never truly threatened Ulthuan or any of its core interests. They've never had to deal with vampires infiltrating their society and subverting it from within, they don't have an obligation to kill undead because their founding god-king didn't fight their any liches and none of their gods have specific strictures against the undead.

    So you're left with this kind of... disquiet, because vampires look human but they move with the same speed and grace as an elf, which feels weird and wrong to the elves. In addition, because every elf has Magesight they can see the churning vortex of Dhar in place of the vampire's souls at every moment they are looking at one, so even when meeting an ostensibly friendly vampire they can never forget what they are for longer than the blink of an eye.

    At the same time, vampires dislike elves for not too dissimilar reasons: they revel in being apex predators without equals, the wolves among the sheep, and they very quickly get used to being better than humans in every way, which elves get in the way of. Sure, they might be stronger and tougher than elves, but they're just as fast, and in most cases it's the elves who are older and more experienced, and of course they're innately very good at magic. This is also, in my headcanon, is one of the big reasons why there are no (or at best they're incredibly rare) elf vampires: if a human vampire gives the Blood Kiss to a human, they can be comfortable in the knowledge that they'll be able to overpower their progeny if they try to betray them. But that goes out the window if a human vampire tries to Blood Kiss an elf: the elf is already superhuman with potentially hundreds of years of experience and innate talent for magic, so if you apply vampiric traits on top of that suddenly the equation is looking a lot more dangerous for the progenitor. Elves also have much less reason to be tempted by vampires into working for them or becoming one of them, and since they all have Magesight they have a much easier time detecting vampires, so trying to infiltrate elven societies is hell for vampires.

    All of which means that elves don't like vampires but they're a very low priority for them to deal with so they're unlikely to go out of their way to hunt them down unless they're posing a direct threat to them, and vampires likewise prefer to avoid elves because they're much tougher meals than their usual fare.

    At least that is my view.
     
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  • Informational
    • I remember that in Total War Imrik has a quest battle. Said battles centers around a Blood Dragon vampire lord who stole a fragment of the armor of Caledor and taunts Imrik with the fact in order to goad Imrik to come fight him in a battlefield of the vampire's choosing so that the Blood Dragon can imitate Abhorash's achievement by drinking the blood of Imrik's dragons if he wins the battle.

    So you could possibly make some plot lines about Blood Dragons coming into conflict with High Elves because they want to eat their dragons. Ulthuan is probably in too good a security lock down for them to just try to invade Caledor itself, but elven expeditions outside of Ulthuan may find themselves in such conflicts.

    Such conflicts can also lend themselves into a Blood Knight/Dragon Prince rivalry over who are the better knights/shock cavalry.
     
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    torroar said:
    For the life of me, I cannot make this dang thing work when I try to post it into the insert image or insert media options.

    imgflip.com

    You are already dead

    An image tagged you are already dead
    imgflip.com imgflip.com
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    Lemme try something...
    OK, I think that worked.

    EDIT: The problem was you were trying to use the website link instead of the actual image. Imgur has the same functionality. "You are already dead" is different than "https://i.imgflip.com/8z75z4.jpg". The latter is the actual file for the image, the former is just a web address to a page that contains the file.
     
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    Always Late said:
    Lemme try something...
    OK, I think that worked.

    EDIT: The problem was you were trying to use the website link instead of the actual image. Imgur has the same functionality. "You are already dead" is different than "https://i.imgflip.com/8z75z4.jpg". The latter is the actual file for the image, the former is just a web address to a page that contains the file.
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    Ugh. Frustrating. When I clicked the 'share' bit that was the link it gave me. Bleh. Anyway, fixed now, thanks!
     
    Ugh... All this talk of blood and power has me think of Freddy opening a temple to the elven pantheon and seeing the Khaine shrine flooded by humans soldiers because of how simply mercenary the god is with his blessings.

    And vampires having souls of swirly Dhar seems like an opportunity for some madlad elf to make a reverse vampire with a soul of Qhaysh. AS. A. WAY. TO. PROVE. ELVEN. SUPERIORITY. OVER. NAGASH.

    Warhammer. We do not ask why. We ask Why not? :eyeroll::lol:
     
    Blackout said:
    So you're left with this kind of... disquiet, because vampires look human but they move with the same speed and grace as an elf, which feels weird and wrong to the elves. In addition, because every elf has Magesight they can see the churning vortex of Dhar in place of the vampire's souls at every moment they are looking at one, so even when meeting an ostensibly friendly vampire they can never forget what they are for longer than the blink of an eye.
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    So basically an uncanny valley kind of thing if Eldrya meets Johanna in person?

    I wonder what high/wood elves would think of the idea of vampires conquering their thirst if they drink a dragon to death considering how highly they view dragons and interact with them. See them as horrible parasites?
     
    Cheap Orange Knofe said:
    Elves will insist that it's a totally different Khaine because elven superiority.
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    If Freddy builds the temple, Freddy gets to decide what gods get put in it.

    And I don't think either the Asur or the Eonir venerate Khaine through outright shrines, which means unless the only elf who could even consult on that would be Hultressa.

    And I expect her reaction to being asked for help in building a Khaine temple to be somewhere between "Hell no, are you mad!" and immediately running away with Gwen under her arm, hurling spells behind herself all the while.
     
    Frederick will not be building a shrine or temple to Khaine unless he's being forced to under duress of his wife being killed or something, and even then he'd be spitting in the mortar of every brick.
     
    torroar said:
    Frederick will not be building a shrine or temple to Khaine unless he's being forced to under duress of his wife being killed or something, and even then he'd be spitting in the mortar of every brick.
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    With how much murder and blood that Freddy has shed... might that not simply empower it?! 🧐
     
    allmightytoaster said:
    And I don't think either the Asur or the Eonir venerate Khaine through outright shrines, which means unless the only elf who could even consult on that would be Hultressa.
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    I am pretty sure Eonir and wood elves in general worship the Cytharai and Cadai relatively equally which would include Khaine , the High elves worship the Cadai mainly while acknowledging the Cytharai grudgingly when there is no avoiding it while the dark elves focus on the Cytharai exclusively while outright rejecting the Cadai
     
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    mmgaballah said:
    I am pretty sure Eonir and wood elves in general worship the Cytharai and Cadai relatively equally which would include Khaine , the High elves worship the Cadai mainly while acknowledging the Cytharai grudgingly when there is no avoiding it while the dark elves focus on the Cytharai exclusively while outright rejecting the Cadai
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    But do they build shrines? Or do they venerate him purely through action? Theres a difference between murder on the battlefield and murder on an altar.
    I'd also not call Khaine worshipped even grudgingly by the Asur, given that iirc his cults are outright forbidden. He is accepted as a part of elven nature, but one that must be tightly leashed at all times.
     
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