Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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Fouredged Sword said:
Also interesting, I wonder if Gryphons use mammalian XY sex chromosomes or the avian ZW. I wonder because she is female, and while in mammals females have the doubled XX chromosome and are generally smaller than males, in birds this is reversed. Females have the mismatched ZW chromosome pair and are generally larger than the males.
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Given that Gryphons only appeared when chaos came into the world and are born from its mutative influence, I would suspect their chromosomes are a unique kind, one I propose to be called CB for Chaos Bullshit. :V
Valerian said:
Justice ( Evangeline's mount)
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IIRC they are called Scales
 
So, just in case some of y'all forgot, there are four named gryphons featured in the quest so far.

Oskana, who should need no introduction, and her son Octaine.
torroar said:
The Master Rune of Adamant, it is called, and it glows merrily upon the very center of the breastplate in bright blue. When she tussled with her son, it was a joyous and intriguing sight to see as Octaine found himself essentially trounced. Now, normally it is a bit more even, but all could see as his claws and beak scraped ineffectually off her body. The same claws and beak as his mother, as all gryphons on average, things able to carve boulders and shear through full steel plate with incredible ease.
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But there is also the Emperor's mount, Sigismund:

torroar said:
As for his gryphon which others have asked after: The white-as-Hysh and male Sigismund is doing fine, and has been personally tended to by the Patriarch, Matriarch, and Patriarch of the Jade College, Amber College, and Light College respectively to ensure the best possible growth and strengthening while being repeatedly subject to anti-Chaos enchantment. The Supreme Patriarch, Volans, is even thinking of making something specific for said Gryphon. As it is, Sigismund follows Magnus everywhere, and as he hatched his immediately the gryphon is actually older than Oskana. Old enough to be trained - and has been quite well - and old enough to be ridden. Which he is. Everywhere. Magnus loves it. Also, the Emperor has the Grand Theogonist and both of the Arch Lectors bless Sigismund with all the best of their prayers and earnest abilities on a regular basis, as well asked the Ar-Ulric to put his own blessings on Sigismund. Really, Magnus sort of followed his own path of becoming The Pious and finding earnest approval from all the major Gods of the Empire from Manaan to Morr. Then he had master-rune worked gromril in the form of armor put on him
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And finally, Scales-of-Justice, daughter of Sigismund and Oskana as well as clutch mate of Octaine.

torroar said:
Scales-of-Justice is the personal gryphon mount of Evangeline, given to her by the Emperor just after Marvelous Marienburg. It's not that her having to take a pegasus from a dead knight was to fight the Master of Shadows was the cause, either. Scales was going to be given to her anyway - Gunthar's primary mount is one of the holy Winter Wolves after all. It's just that Scales was receiving treatment and blatant boosting from the Amber/Gold/Light/Jade Colleges throughout her raising period from egg to full maturity, plus training from the Chracian trainer that Magnus got. She is, yes, Octaine's sibling by way of Sigismund and Oskana, and her fur is a silvery pattern akin to quicksilver in appearance.
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Each of them looking very different from one another.
 
Blackout said:
The Empire has two dragons in canon. Elspeth von Draken enslaved a Carmine Dragon with magic, while the Imperial Dragon was raised in captivity as a zoo animal which it resents, is kept under lock and key with a magically reinforced collar, has killed multiple stewards and zookeepers, and only lets Karl Franz ride it because he can "dominate its will", whatever that means but it certainly doesn't imply a happy interspecies friendship. I would not call that "figured out how to work with them".
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Also, because I don't want to be that guy who makes baseless claims, here are the sources and citations to back up each of these points:

Born and raised in captivity:
There is but one dragon in the Imperial Zoo, a ferocious beast raised from an egg said to have been taken from the deepest cave in the Black Mountains.
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-Armybook Empire (8e/7e) pg. 34/35

Karl Franz domination:
None but Emperor Karl Franz have ever dared to ride it, for only he has the strength of will to dominate its cold, aloof mind.
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-Armybook Empire (8e/7e) pg. 34/35

Resents being a zoo animal:
The Imperial Dragon is also housed here occasionally, but utterly resents the indignity.
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-Altdorf: Crown of the Empire pg. 103

Has killed imperials:
In its deepest recesses can be found the Imperial Dragon, an elder beast that lies brooding upon a mountain of golden Imperial heirlooms and the soot-blackened bones of incautious stewards.
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-Warhammer Fantasy Core Rulebook (8e) pg. 185

Kept under lock and key:
Martak reached the very base of the Menagerie's dungeons, his breath heaving and his lungs burning. The last cage was buried deep, surrounded by huge walls of stone and ringed with iron chains. The air stank of flame and charring, and every surface had been burned as black as coal.

He could hear the footfalls at the top of the stairs. They had almost caught him, right at the end, and he could sense their bloodlust burning like a beacon in the darkness.

He reached the iron lattice, slamming into it and fumbling for the great lock. It was the size of his chest, and took a key the length of his forearm, but that would not be necessary now. Stammering over the words, he spoke the spell of unbinding, and the lock fell apart.
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He allowed himself a twisted grin, and shuffled up to the dragon's great iron collar.

'That was well done, dragon,' he said, reaching up for the mighty lock.

The dragon hissed at him, sending a fresh burst of flame-laced hot air blasting into his flushed face. Martak whispered words for the quieting of the animal spirits, drawing on the Wind of Ghur that eddied throughout the whole Menagerie. He had no chance of truly mastering a dragon's mind, but he could do just enough to persuade it that he was no threat, and that freedom was a small step away, and that the horrors running amok in the Palace above were the real prey.

He placed his hands over the massive padlock, and exerted his will. The lock clicked open, and the iron chains fell to the ground with a resounding clang. Though still hampered by the confines of the cell, the great creature stretched out, its head rising up to the roof and its wings unfurling around the walls. A grating, iron-hard growl emerged from its chest, and its clawed forelegs pawed at the straw.
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-Fall of Altdorf pg. 225-226

Carmine Dragon enslaved by von Draken:
With the dread Carmine Dragon that was her steed, enslaved to her will by the Amethyst Magic that ran like blood through its veins, she had followed the invisible currents of death into the Border Princes and hovered like a carrion crow above the fields of the slain and stolen secrets from the dying souls she had found there. Elspeth von Draken knew the face of the enemy and the horror they would visit upon Sigmar's Empire.
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-Tamurkhan Throne of Chaos pg. 77

She has bound to her will a great Carmine Dragon which can, in its wrath, unleash blasts of amaranthine lightning.
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-Winds of Magic pg. 120

I have done a lot of research into how the Empire canonically treats dragons.
 
torroar said:
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I understand that the Emperor of Sigmar's Empire has to use Sigmar's Holy Hammer, but man, Karl Franz is really banking on the enemy being tall enough to reach and slender enough to slide through the gap in between the wings and the body, isn't he? No whacking an orc, human, goblin, elf, skeleton, zombie, beastman, skaven, demon, elf or beastie for him during this battle.
 
torroar said:
So, just in case some of y'all forgot, there are four named gryphons featured in the quest so far.

Oskana, who should need no introduction, and her son Octaine.


But there is also the Emperor's mount, Sigismund:



And finally, Scales-of-Justice, daughter of Sigismund and Oskana as well as clutch mate of Octaine.



Each of them looking very different from one another.
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Scales-of-Justice is female?

Sorry, this just surprises me a bit. Anecdote, yeah, but IIRC, when animals are bred, doesn't the one who provided the female often get first pick or majority of the brood? In my experience, owing to the risk on the female's part, that was the case.

That we gave up the opportunity to have 2 females feels like a concession. That said, as I type, the 4 griffons are the only known griffons in the Empire, and any future pairings would need to be between Oskana and Sigismund.

And I guess, Frederick being loyal to Magnus the Pious, it would be in character for Frederick to let Magnus have the female.

A bit of a question. If Magnus the Pious dies, what happens to the gryphons Sigismund and Scales? Are they reserved for the future Emperor's use, or like, does Gunthar have a claim on them?
 
WestOrEast said:
I understand that the Emperor of Sigmar's Empire has to use Sigmar's Holy Hammer, but man, Karl Franz is really banking on the enemy being tall enough to reach and slender enough to slide through the gap in between the wings and the body, isn't he? No whacking an orc, human, goblin, elf, skeleton, zombie, beastman, skaven, demon, elf or beastie for him during this battle.
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yeah , in pic DeathClaw is very clearly total war elephant tier in size
 
Uh, they were eggs my guy. It's part of my explanation as to how their eggs can be hauled overland by grubby desperate mercenaries for potentially weeks to months back to their client at utterly unknown periods of development. Gryphon eggs can be held for very long periods of time, years even, depending on environmental factors. Two different eggs were acquired back when. Oskana was hatched near immediately, but Sigismund had to wait a while longer as Magnus prepped for him.

The egg that looked closest to Oskana was picked, that's all there is to it, nothing about male or female decided or known.

Sigismund is to be remanded to the care of the Amber College in perpetuity should the worst come to pass, whereas Scales-of-Justice is literally just Evangeline's forever. Justice's feeding requirements are sustained by way of painstakingly maintained hunting licenses in areas of the Empire where required, Verena Cult support, Imperial Court Support, and Amber College Support. As well as the bodies of greenskins and criminal non-mutated humans, etc.

It's part of the whole 'purposefully not naming a successor it having an heir' thing Magnus did in canon. No future Emperor gets to claim either Sigismund or his child Scales-of-Justice, let alone Octaine.
 
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Blackout said:
snip
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And this is with a normal dragon too. A Black Dragon would be so much worse in temperament. And sure you can argue "oh Freddy won't do it that way" or "the elves will help us (which I'm not sure of, I honestly don't think the Asur will want us to have a dragon and might just say give us the egg or figure it out yourself, and the Eonir, while helpful, aren't dragon experts like the Asur)", but if that fails and the dragon decides to say fuck us, then it's just either a waste of resources when we have to kill it, or an even bigger investiture that we absolutely can't afford in order to cage it (something that would probably piss off our Asur friends too) since the Imperial Dragon and Zoo was only affordable because Dieter was Emperor
 
mmgaballah said:
the do have dragon experts , they can just phone home to the Asrai and not just get an expert but a fully grown forest dragon to come look into the egg , remember the Asrai have dragons too
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I don't, think they can casually do that. Even if we assume, assume, the Asrai are curious enough given it's Frederick von Hohenzollern involved, the dragons are still sapient with their own will, and directing them is usually in defense of the forest.

And of course there's the awkwardness that comes from putting further space between Asrai and Eonir.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
I don't, think they can casually do that. Even if we assume, assume, the Asrai are curious enough given it's Frederick von Hohenzollern involved, the dragons are still sapient with their own will, and directing them is usually in defense of the forest.

And of course there's the awkwardness that comes from putting further space between Asrai and Eonir.
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yeah , but elves care about dragons , if Eonir mention a dragon egg in need of care then odds the Asrai will answer to the best of their ability cause its dragon egg , besides I am opposed to giving the gains/loot/blunder of a battle to group that wasn't even involved rather than our allies who risked their lives to aid us , it just rubs me the wrong way mighty fierce
 
Honestly now i wonder how was the mating from Sigsmund perspective, they got him a mate but turns out be this insane warrior lady that fight like a devil...
 
MrRobot said:
Honestly now i wonder how was the mating from Sigsmund perspective, they got him a mate but turns out be this insane warrior lady that fight like a devil...
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He's a Gryphon, they're all about displays of ultraviolence. He probably thinks Oskana is the baddest bitch around, and he'd be right.
 
mmgaballah said:
yeah , but elves care about dragons , if Eonir mention a dragon egg in need of care then odds the Asrai will answer to the best of their ability cause its dragon egg , besides I am opposed to giving the gains/loot/blunder of a battle to group that wasn't even involved rather than our allies who risked their lives to aid us , it just rubs me the wrong way mighty fierce
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I mean, Sadrina's here, and her knowledge has been a massive boon to our efforts here, and Eldyra was on her way here (potentially even dying on her way if Dreadbringer wasn't bluffing like I assume he was) but couldn't make it in time. If you're talking about the Fulcrum group, their decision was a good one, the Druchii finding out about it would make Ostland a far bigger target than "potential raiding location/asshole who pushed us back that one time" and so far we've been doing fine without them. Giving the egg to Ulthuan is big money for us, but I could be convinced to give it to the Eonir too.
 
So thinking about the Dragon and the like, something not mentioned yet, but how fast do Dragon's grow? Cause I mean, the egg is able to fit in one hand, so a new born dragon can't be bigger then that. If it takes twenty years for it to grow to the size of pony, the feeding costs are not going gonna be that big, And who knows(the elves) how long it will take for the dragon to actually grow to ridable size? It could something to past down to our children and grandchildren; heck it could act as a guardian for Karola.
 
coalface said:
So thinking about the Dragon and the like, something not mentioned yet, but how fast do Dragon's grow? Cause I mean, the egg is able to fit in one hand, so a new born dragon can't be bigger then that. If it takes twenty years for it to grow to the size of pony, the feeding costs are not going gonna be that big, And who knows(the elves) how long it will take for the dragon to actually grow to ridable size? It could something to past down to our children and grandchildren; heck it could act as a guardian for Karola.
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dragons are people smart and there for not something that can be ridden casually , if it doesn't want to be ridden then it will just kill who ever tries , even the elves only mount them with their explicit consent which can be taken back at any time even mid flight if the dragons feels like it , point is don't think of the dragon as another mount to keep in our stable so much as another addition to the family with all the rights privileges ,education and entitlement that comes with that

in fact we are better off thinking of raising the dragon from the pov of taking care of a ward from another noble family to eventually be let go to make his fortune when he comes of age rather than another mount to be tamed for riding , mind I can totally see egg boi being raised to become Sir Scalthrtax the Black a Baron of Ostland and lord of that part of the forest of shadows he bloodily conquered from the monsters and then settled with the count's help , he even affords his own food and had a personal castle build to dragon proportions due to a good financial and fiscal upbringing in Castle Worfenburg
 
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