I agree. Let's see what she can do with the Endurance.

Where does everyone think we should send the Endurance, by the way? I'm thinking we send it to the Klingon Border Zone to hold down matters there. Remember, we've been told border zones have a higher probability of Events, so having an Explorer there would be good. It also means we could free up some ships to go garrison Betazed, since that's now a thing we have to do. Theoretically the Endurance can hold the KBZ alone, though in practice I'd like to let her have another ship as back-up.
When was it said that border zones have a higher chance of events?

I would be looking at sending her to either the Sol or the Amarki sector, because they neighbor the Caitian/Rigel sector and the ship could respond to events there as well. The Amarki sector has the advantage of being close to the Cardassian border zone as well, the Sol sector that she could stay closer to her wife. The disadvantage of the Amarki sector is that we don't need to assign anything there to meet defence requirements.
 
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I would send The Endurance to the CBZ and pull the small ships entirely. That means we only have Excelsiors or a Constitution responding to events there.
You do realize that a vessel can not be in two places at the same time and there are only so many of our larger ships to use. We are able to cover more ground by having our smaller ships out there.
 
You do realize that a vessel can not be in two places at the same time and there are only so many of our larger ships to use. We are able to cover more ground by having our smaller ships out there.
True, but the smaller ships are much more vulnerable. And we know now that things with the Cardassians have deteriorated to "hey, we're gonna accidentally your best ship." If they can't get the Enterprise -- and they should have -- they'll try to pick off a Constellation.
 
You do realize that a vessel can not be in two places at the same time and there are only so many of our larger ships to use. We are able to cover more ground by having our smaller ships out there.

Yes, but that still leaves us with three ships in the sector vs. our current 4, and an Excelsior has a better chance of being able to show up in time to make a difference.
 
Yes, there are currently member world fleets. Once they've joined they'll start transitioning from their own designs to Starfleet designs. The four founding members are already using it.

Not completely I hope.

Sure the majority of the new ship designs would be starfleet simply by the greater technological advancement the federation can dedicate to it, but they would keep a few doctrinal choices that makes sense for the home fleet and with native design teams they would be able to churn out one design now and then, enough to always be relevant from a home fleet doctrinal standpoint, as well as maintain some of their unique capabilities. Star-fleet aesthetics and color scheme of course.
 
[X] Be given NCC registries.

(It's not like we have any shortage of NCC numbers to hand out, and I'm sure that all warships in homeworld fleet service are registered with the Federation even if they don't serve the Federation itself. I suspect there are regulations against building up your own unregistered fleet within Federation space.)

The Enterprise turns out to be magic, and we get to see the stats for the Cardassian Heavy Cruiser... as well as destroy one. That loss is going to hurt them a hell of a lot. They can't have many of those things, and it's going to take a lot of time, resources, and crew to replace.
True, although depending on what its noncombat stats look like the Cardie battlecruiser design might be relatively cheaper than our Excelsiors. It's got a lighter hull than an Excelsior, similar shielding, and a bit more firepower. Given that the crew uses fewer techs, it may be inferior in terms of science/defense/whatever, in which case it probably costs less special resources to build.

Hmm, with the stellar performance the Enterprise Crew had, are they now Elite (Elite+, after Nash's bonus)?
Remember, the first time they died horribly, and in-story it took them at least twenty-seven tries, possibly more, to win the battle. I'm not sure I'd go for that.

[] Not be given NCC registries

Seems like it would lead to less confusion, and I like having the member worlds with their own flair. Plus CAS Riala just sounds better than NCC Riala to me.
Ah, but the Federation still calls all ITS ships "USS this" and "USS that." There's no reason member races can't adopt their own prefixes as part of the name, something like "Her Majesty's Vessel" or whatever.

I'm pretty sure that math's wrong. It takes 1 year to build the berth, then another 2 to finish the first Centaur, and another 2 for every Centaur afterwards

In terms of combat potential (in case of fleet battles, for examples), this puts us ahead of the Constellation refit after only 7 years, since we'd gain 9 Combat, 6 Hull and 9 Shield, compared to only 9 Combat from the refit.
The problem is that you can't model fleet battles as a cage match between all our ships and all their ships. We have other things we need ships for, and Constellations fill THOSE roles; they do not compete directly with the escorts we send off to reinforce a battlefleet on our frontiers.

And outside of fleet battles it is completely pointless to even try to add up point values; getting 6 science by building two new ships is totally different in terms of the consequences than adding +1 science to each of six existing ships.

We'd also get 3 more ships in general with fairly solid stats that could partake in events, and due to said stats have some reasonably good chances at completing them successfully, and the Constellations also still have chances to participate in events because they're out and active rather than in dock.
Except that if we're scrapping Constellations to crew Centaurs, we don't get to keep the Constellations.

If we're NOT scrapping Constellations to crew Centaurs, then we have to scrape up crews for both ships to operate simultaneously... and once we've done that, then we might as well keep the Constellations around after we're done buiding the eight Centaurs.

Overall, after 7 years building new Centaurs would be ahead of refitting the Constellations by a small margin, and that margin would only grow the longer the game runs because we can build/refit more ships this way.
See, I'm counting the time it takes to actually replace all eight ships, because that's how long this build project would require. And at no point during that interval do we gain major advantages over the refit process, because a one-for-one replacement of Constellations with Centaurs just isn't that good compared to refitting the Constellations. We also expend a great deal of special resources in the process because Centaurs are that expensive.
 
When was it said that border zones have a higher chance of events?

Each Captain's turn, every home sector rolls against a chart that has about a 1 in 3 chance of turning up an event. Each affiliate sector rolls against a 1 in 5ish event table. Each Border Zone rolls against a 2 in 5ish table that is unique to it. Every FYM Explorer rolls a d12 for a general event category.

2 in 5 is greater than 1 in 3, if only by a bit. Moreover, the border region likelier has a slightly nastier table than a home sector, like bored Klingon raiders.

I would be looking at sending her to either the Sol or the Amarki sector, because they neighbor the Caitian/Rigel sector and the ship could respond to events there as well. The Amarki sector has the advantage of being close to the Cardassian border zone as well, the Sol sector that she could stay closer to her wife. The disadvantage of the Amarki sector is that we don't need to assign anything there to meet defence requirements.

Look, we can't be choosing Star Fleet personnel requirements to accommodate individual relationships. They're grown women; they knew when Rosalee accepted the assignment she might be posted anywhere.

I just feel real nervous leaving the Klingons with a border that doesn't have an Excelsior on it. The Intelligence Reports warn us over and over that peace with the Klingon Empire has to be viewed as a temporary thing. There will be flare-ups and set-backs; the important thing is to repulse them thoroughly and harshly, and the Klingons will normalize relations again quickly as long as they didn't actually conquer us.
 
[X] Be given NCC registries.

(It's not like we have any shortage of NCC numbers to hand out, and I'm sure that all warships in homeworld fleet service are registered with the Federation even if they don't serve the Federation itself. I suspect there are regulations against building up your own unregistered fleet within Federation space.)

They could even have a dual registry. One for their home fleet, and another that only gets used when they're on Starfleet ops.

True, although depending on what its noncombat stats look like the Cardie battlecruiser design might be relatively cheaper than our Excelsiors. It's got a lighter hull than an Excelsior, similar shielding, and a bit more firepower. Given that the crew uses fewer techs, it may be inferior in terms of science/defense/whatever, in which case it probably costs less special resources to build.

Remember, the first time they died horribly, and in-story it took them at least twenty-seven tries, possibly more, to win the battle. I'm not sure I'd go for that.

The twenty-seven tries was just extra drama on the QM's part. Going into that battle, the Enterprise had a 1 in 4 chance of winning, and in reality it won in the second of two battles on Oneiros' engine.

As for how cheap or expensive the Lorgot might be, keep in mind that with their Combined Arms paradigm the cardies are probably turning most of their resources into Jalduns, with the remainder being divided between Lorgots and that escort we haven't met yet. Even if the Lorgot is cheaper than the Excelsior, the Cardassians are allocating a much smaller part of their budget to building them.

Looking at its stats again, I suspect the Lorgot is at its most dangerous when it goes into battle with a small group of those escorts. This fight system's randomized targeting would prevent enough enemy fire from concentrating on the battlecruiser to expose its fragile hull, and in the meantime it hits hard.
 
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I just feel real nervous leaving the Klingons with a border that doesn't have an Excelsior on it. The Intelligence Reports warn us over and over that peace with the Klingon Empire has to be viewed as a temporary thing. There will be flare-ups and set-backs; the important thing is to repulse them thoroughly and harshly, and the Klingons will normalize relations again quickly as long as they didn't actually conquer us.
I'd be willing to back you there as long as we get something to reinforce the CBZ.
 
I'd be willing to back you there as long as we get something to reinforce the CBZ.

We could probably send them another Constellation. I see no need to let the Cardassians get a look at any of our Mirandas and know how weak they actually are. Let them keep wondering.

A quick and dirty solution would be to temporarily bring our home sector Excelsiors to the CBZ and replace each of them with two or three of our new Centaur-A's.

What home sector Excelsiors would those be? We have 7 Excelsiors in service right now. 4 are in the Explorer Corps, one is on the RBZ, one is on the CBZ, and one has yet to be assigned.
 
The problem is that you can't model fleet battles as a cage match between all our ships and all their ships. We have other things we need ships for, and Constellations fill THOSE roles; they do not compete directly with the escorts we send off to reinforce a battlefleet on our frontiers.
If there is no intent to at least consider sending Constellations to the frontline, then the refit becomes even less valuable, because suddenly a full third of its stat bonuses would be utterly irrelevant. And if there is intent to send them on the frontlines if need be, then yes; it does become a cage match of our ship vs. theirs, and whether a ship has 4 C or 3 C doesn't matter nearly as much as the total amount of C for the entire fleet, and the individual ships' H and L.
It would also make building more Centaurs even more important, because with that plan or intent, our fleet is effectively even smaller than one would assume at first glance.
And outside of fleet battles it is completely pointless to even try to add up point values; getting 6 science by building two new ships is totally different in terms of the consequences than adding +1 science to each of six existing ships.
I think it should be pretty self evident that having 11+ ships with which to potentially solve various events should be better than having only 8 ships.
Except that if we're scrapping Constellations to crew Centaurs, we don't get to keep the Constellations.

If we're NOT scrapping Constellations to crew Centaurs, then we have to scrape up crews for both ships to operate simultaneously... and once we've done that, then we might as well keep the Constellations around after we're done buiding the eight Centaurs.
We keep the Constellations while churning out Centaurs. Or, once we're capable of building them, Renaissance.
Then, once we start to hit either crew bottlenecks or the Combat Limit, we start scrapping/retiring Constellations as needed in order to free up crews or C for the new vessels.

I really don't get what's so hard to understand about that. The point is not to specifically replace those 8 Constellations with 8 Centaurs. The point is to improve the capabilities of the fleet as a whole, and new builds are a far superior choice for that than refits, as long as we can spare both the resources and combat limit for it.

See, I'm counting the time it takes to actually replace all eight ships, because that's how long this build project would require.
Which might explain where the misunderstanding is coming from. You seem to be fixated on the Constellations and their numbers in particular, where my focus is on the fleet as a whole.
 
2 in 5 is greater than 1 in 3, if only by a bit.
But also a bit lower than at least one of 1 in 3 or 1 in 5.
Moreover, the border region likelier has a slightly nastier table than a home sector, like bored Klingon raiders.
I don't know about that, in general the stakes are lower in a border zone because there is less to defend, and the realtionship with the Klingons are currently good enough that I don't see a surprise attack from them as more likely than one from the Sydrax (perhaps with Cardassian support) or some unknown power from beyond explored space attacking through the wide open coreward border at some point. And there is no border zone there as buffer.

Look, we can't be choosing Star Fleet personnel requirements to accommodate individual relationships. They're grown women; they knew when Rosalee accepted the assignment she might be posted anywhere.
I definitely wouldn't use it as anything more than a tie breaker, but why not take it into account when there are multiple roughly equal options?
I just feel real nervous leaving the Klingons with a border that doesn't have an Excelsior on it. The Intelligence Reports warn us over and over that peace with the Klingon Empire has to be viewed as a temporary thing. There will be flare-ups and set-backs; the important thing is to repulse them thoroughly and harshly, and the Klingons will normalize relations again quickly as long as they didn't actually conquer us.
The last report sounded rather optimistic, actually. Mentioning the possibility of a war some time in the future based on general Klingon temperament rather than any concrete hints isn't all that strong of a warning. I'm not saying that we shouldn't strengthen the forces there, and it's definitely a higher priority for an Excelsior than the interior sectors (Vulcan, Andor, Tellar), but IMO not higher priority than the other border sectors.
 
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I have reluctantly decided that since shipbuilding by quarter as soon as the berth opens up is going to be a thing, I'd better update my shipbuild spreadsheet to track everything by quarter. On the plus side, it will make tracking resources easier since we'll be breaking it down to the smallest time units in the game (barring states of emergency).
 
So it looks like we're going to have probably between 139 and 159 political will in the Snakepit, depending on how the 2308Q1 Captain's Logs treat us. My priorities:
Start Renaissance - 20
Science Academy Expansion - 20
New Starbase - 20
SR colony at 21 Themis VII - 8
Omake Discount Tech team - 10 (Tech teams inspired by omakes are at a discount; personally I'd like the Weapons team that I believe will be on offer from my two omakes)
Member World Coordination Office under Shipyard Ops - 30pp
Diplomacy (Apiata) - 10
Diplomacy (Sayek) - 10 (This is the multi-species group; people have been asking about them and boosting them to Affiliate status, so why not?)
Diplomacy (Caldonians) - 10 (I want to do a Science affiliate, and the Caldonians seem a better fit for the Federation.)

That's 138. If we have more I recommend:
Request expansion of Lor'Vela Orbital Construction Facility - 10pp (We could actually use an extra 1mt berth)
Second Omake tech team - 10

Disagreements, or reordering of priorities?

Regarding the Starbase, where are you thinking of dropping it? I'd like to see it in the RBZ, while they currently don't mind.

Also, if the option of another Outpost for 10pp comes up, I'd like to see that either in addition to the Starbase, or at least instead of it, to save the costs.

And diplomacy... are you sure about Apiata? I suspect they will shoot to mid 400s given the likelyhood of events for them every quarter, being on the effective border w/Cardassia. I'd rather see another affiliate, such as Risa, which rarely is mentioned, or one of the other neighbor of the Sydraxians, like the Gretarians or Yrillians.

Otherwise, the rest looks great! Hopefully something like this is done.
 
And diplomacy... are you sure about Apiata? I suspect they will shoot to mid 400s given the likelyhood of events for them every quarter, being on the effective border w/Cardassia. I'd rather see another affiliate, such as Risa, which rarely is mentioned, or one of the other neighbor of the Sydraxians, like the Gretarians or Yrillians.

The Apiata are one of the Medium powers of the quadrant, on the level below the Great Powers like the Federation and Cardassia. I feel like it would be a good idea to get them safely above 300, and then we could stop pushing for a while and see how they integrate with the Federation or if they even can integrate further.
 
The Apiata are one of the Medium powers of the quadrant, on the level below the Great Powers like the Federation and Cardassia. I feel like it would be a good idea to get them safely above 300, and then we could stop pushing for a while and see how they integrate with the Federation or if they even can integrate further.
Though with 244, two more rolls and one turn for random events there is a pretty good chance they will have crossed 300 already.
 
A lot does depend on what events and rolls we get for the 1q and 2q. So next quarter we start another excelsior and I would like to refit the yukikaze in one of the utopia berths. Maybe the second Centaur if we have another spare berth and can take both out of commission for a year
 
Yep, exactly.

On a slightly different topic, what difference do we feel is a large enough defense required vs defenses owned (including outposts and starbases) before we deliberately push an affiliate to become a full member world? +10% of the total? +50 points?

We currently need D15+2D12+D10+3D9+D6=82+Betazed, vs
5 Starbases (25) + 2 Outposts, as of Q2 (10) + 1 Constitutiion (5) + 7 Excelsiors (42) + 8 Constellations (24) + 4 Oberths (4) + 11 Mirandas (22) + 2 Centaurs (4) = 136.

So if Betazed was a D9, that's 136/91, or +49.4%. Or, by pure difference, +45.
 
The Apiata are one of the Medium powers of the quadrant, on the level below the Great Powers like the Federation and Cardassia. I feel like it would be a good idea to get them safely above 300, and then we could stop pushing for a while and see how they integrate with the Federation or if they even can integrate further.

Am I the only one not worried about Apiata culture? Their loyalty to the queens is no more inimical to Federation values than kin selection or the nuclear family.
 
On a slightly different topic, what difference do we feel is a large enough defense required vs defenses owned (including outposts and starbases) before we deliberately push an affiliate to become a full member world? +10% of the total? +50 points?
Personally I'd like to have like 12-15 Defense available to cover them, and have a few left points left over for unexpected events.
 
Yep, exactly.

On a slightly different topic, what difference do we feel is a large enough defense required vs defenses owned (including outposts and starbases) before we deliberately push an affiliate to become a full member world? +10% of the total? +50 points?

I would think of it in terms of, "How many ships do you envision could be taken out of commission and still be able to handle Defense properly?"
 
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