I would think of it in terms of, "How many ships do you envision could be taken out of commission and still be able to handle Defense properly?"

Sure, that works too. Let talk about the large ships, as they are likely the current targets, and Explorers are the most likely to run into trouble. That's six per ship, so at +45, that's... all seven Excelsiors, and three to spare. Admittedly, if every Excelsior was out, we'd be freaking, but even in that horrid scenario, we would still have enough defense, in theory.
 
Sure, that works too. Let talk about the large ships, as they are likely the current targets, and Explorers are the most likely to run into trouble. That's six per ship, so at +45, that's... all seven Excelsiors, and three to spare. Admittedly, if every Excelsior was out, we'd be freaking, but even in that horrid scenario, we would still have enough defense, in theory.

Well there are two ways of talking about "required Defense" and I'm not sure which one you're talking about. The Council gives us a "required Defense" that is the sum total of all the Defense on all our ships, but outposts and starbases do not count for that total.

On the other hand, each key system and border zone has a specific Defense value we have to meet with ships stationed there, outposts, and starbases. Obviously outposts and starbases count for that, but Explorer Corps vessels do not because they are not on garrison duty. Also you can't split a ship in half, so when the fleet is very close to the margin you might have a bit of trouble there.
 
Am I the only one not worried about Apiata culture? Their loyalty to the queens is no more inimical to Federation values than kin selection or the nuclear family.

I'm concerned about their integration into Starfleet. They may not be able to crew mixed race vessels. However, some support roles like starbase operation and ship construction where they can be an entire department may work. We may need to do special exchange programs with their home fleet and have their personal transfer back and forth. However, that is something we need to talk with them, the council, and the personal office.
 
Well there are two ways of talking about "required Defense" and I'm not sure which one you're talking about. The Council gives us a "required Defense" that is the sum total of all the Defense on all our ships, but outposts and starbases do not count for that total.

On the other hand, each key system and border zone has a specific Defense value we have to meet with ships stationed there, outposts, and starbases. Obviously outposts and starbases count for that, but Explorer Corps vessels do not because they are not on garrison duty. Also you can't split a ship in half, so when the fleet is very close to the margin you might have a bit of trouble there.

Defintely the latter, so no Explorers? Okay, that does change the equation. We have four Excelsiors on the active roster of the Explorers corps, and I assume the new ship is one too, correct? So five less Excelsiors leaves two in regular Starfleet, and a Constellation (for the earlier spare points) - three ships, then, at the most pessimistic I can think of.

Edit: regarding rebalancing difficulties when we are close to the margins, well, we aren't so close that reshuffling a Centaur or Miranda and being a point over here and there will be a problem.
 
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Defintely the latter, so no Explorers? Okay, that does change the equation. We have four Excelsiors on the active roster of the Explorers corps, and I assume the new ship is one too, correct? So five less Excelsiors leaves two in regular Starfleet, and a Constellation (for the earlier spare points) - three ships, then, at the most pessimistic I can think of.

Edit: regarding rebalancing difficulties when we are close to the margins, well, we aren't so close that reshuffling a Centaur or Miranda and being a point over here and there will be a problem.
well, it is a case for the Medium Cruiser concept if nothing else.
 
well, it is a case for the Medium Cruiser concept if nothing else.

Even with what we currently have available, building an Outpost and/or Starbase every year, plus the first batch of Centaur-As being built, averaging one new member world a year seems reasonable. So no full membership pushes this time (unless we want to say now/shortly for the Caitian, which I doubt), but deliberately pushing one a year after that seems doable.
 
Yay, we're getting the Betazoids! Here's hoping they make our counterintelligence actually good.
 
I'm concerned about their integration into Starfleet. They may not be able to crew mixed race vessels. However, some support roles like starbase operation and ship construction where they can be an entire department may work. We may need to do special exchange programs with their home fleet and have their personal transfer back and forth. However, that is something we need to talk with them, the council, and the personal office.
Well, one of their senior queens went off to live on one of our ships for like a year, and it was only a problem because:
1) She had no clearly defined responsibilities and got underfoot.
2) She was a very senior queen, accustomed to bossing around everyone around her, and was therefore insubordinate and disruptive.
3) She had important responsibilities at home which she was neglecting to go into space with Blue Lesbian Kirk.

(1) isn't a problem for Apiata joining Starfleet. (2) and (3) aren't likely problems for any Apiata actually joining Starfleet.

(2) and (3) aren't problems if you aren't dealing with highly senior queens. And either way... Consider. Either the percentage of queens among the Apiata population is high, or it's low.

If it's low, then workers must necessarily be accustomed to functioning without close personal oversight from a queen. In which case they will presumably be fine with working aboard a spaceship for years without queens of their own species being present in person.

If it's high, maybe workers are too dependent on queen direction and pheromones to be functional without queen s being present... but in that case there are likely more queens than are strictly necessary to run things, and queens joining Starfleet is hardly impossible or even unlikely. It might even be an effective way for them to gain knowledge and experience that increases their status in their own internal 'pecking order.' Moreover, if queens are common there has to be a "pecking order" and queens have to be accustomed to that. Which means that queens who AREN'T grand high panjandrum of a whole planet probably know how to take orders.

And either way, if we have actual problems, I suspect the Apiata themselves can help us. They're an advanced species and are presumably aware of the biochemical basis of their own caste structure; they may not want to rearrange their caste structure but they have to know how it works, and how to keep Apiata from going stir-crazy due to lack of members of the other caste(s).
 
I'm concerned about their integration into Starfleet. They may not be able to crew mixed race vessels. However, some support roles like starbase operation and ship construction where they can be an entire department may work. We may need to do special exchange programs with their home fleet and have their personal transfer back and forth. However, that is something we need to talk with them, the council, and the personal office.

I'd say such matters are in the hands of Federation diplomats
 
Well, one of their senior queens went off to live on one of our ships for like a year, and it was only a problem because:
1) She had no clearly defined responsibilities and got underfoot.
2) She was a very senior queen, accustomed to bossing around everyone around her, and was therefore insubordinate and disruptive.
3) She had important responsibilities at home which she was neglecting to go into space with Blue Lesbian Kirk.

 
Most of was yes, but after we get that cooperation office, so kinda

Tally:
Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) | Page 326 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.4
[X] Be given NCC registries following the creation of the Member World Coordination Office
No. of Votes: 8
[X] Not be given NCC registries
No. of Votes: 2
[X] (Abstain)
No. of Votes: 1
[X] Be given NCC registries.
No. of Votes: 1
Total No. of Voters: 12
 
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Personally, I favor just up and giving them numbers, or rather retconning them as having had them all along. It almost has to be a standing law since the early days of the Federation that no member state is allowed to operate unregistered warships.

The ships may not have registries painted on the hull, the crews may pay more attention to the designations assigned by their homeworld. But they should have registry numbers.
 
"Excellent work, Neophytes, although perhaps a touch too much metagaming from you, Tragess," she said, "For the cost of one battlecrusier you eliminated an entire Excelsior and the most dangerous Captain in their fleet -- oh, and one of their lesser cruisers. I would say that is a fair sacrifice." She nodded and turned, "Come along, Neophytes. I am sure your classmates are excited to hear how you bested ka'Sharren." She smiled, "You are, after all, the first to beat the scenario."
My only thought, after laughing mad, was..

Shuttlecrafts and beamouts to the Class-M Planet.
 
Yes, there are currently member world fleets. Once they've joined they'll start transitioning from their own designs to Starfleet designs. The four founding members are already using it.
Romulans: Isn't that the Federation assimilating ship designs? We were right, they're more insidious than the Inflictor!

:V
 
So what are people feeling like for the upcoming build? One excelsior for sure but we have 4 berths coming online q2 from utopia planitia. I am thinking at least one would go to refitting the Yukikaze, and I think we want another oberth. Not sure what to do with the big berths but if they are going idle put the other Centaur in for a refit as well.
 
So what are people feeling like for the upcoming build? One excelsior for sure but we have 4 berths coming online q2 from utopia planitia. I am thinking at least one would go to refitting the Yukikaze, and I think we want another oberth. Not sure what to do with the big berths but if they are going idle put the other Centaur in for a refit as well.

The talk has been to start an Excelsior, do a Centaur refit (when UP berth opens), start an Oberth (when UP berth opens), and start a new Centaur-A (when UP berth opens). Leaving one UP berth unfilled to save resources, because we're going to start a big Connie-B push next year.
 
Well, we know the Amarki are laying down another Riala, but I imagine they'll switch to Ambassadors when the Riala becomes outdated rather than making their own next generation explorer.

Bah! Homogeneous Starfleet is boring.

Kinda a pity that all the member races have or or planning to just adopt Starfleet designs. Look at how different all the pre-Federation vessels looked! http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net...ision/latest?cb=20070618233818&path-prefix=en
 
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