If we all persistently have to ignore the same few people in order to stop the thread from blowing up, because those specific people are violating the spirit of the quest so badly that the QM starts hitting us with militarization...

Then it's kind of unfair to us to have to deal with that. It's a significant burden on the people who are normal, good faith participants, in exchange for very little benefit. Just saying.

If someone is bothering you and in a way that the QM has also warned about, you should just report them. Let the mods do their work. Don't blow it up into a distracting back and forth discussion. (Last statement isn't directed at you particularly - it's to the thread as a whole.)

edit: Basically, instead of talking about a threadban in the thread itself, report it and let the mods decide. I think Oneiros himself has mod powers too, if he so wished to use them.
 
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Long-term we've been putting off the Cardassian shipbuilding report for far too long and we've had multiple hints that their shipbuilding has diverged significantly from predictions thanks to their new client states. I don't think we need to know the Licori's shipbuilding beyond a general idea of "can we add our Excelsiors to the Ked Paddah and Gaeni fleets and form up an unstoppable wrecking ball with which to dictate terms."

Lessee...

[][SPOON] Cardassian shipyard report
[][EARS] Romulan war plans

[][REPORT] Licori fleet strength
[][REPORT] ETA on Licori doomsday weapon
[][REPORT] ??? something about enemy movements in the Gabriel Expanse?
 
Given that we will likely be cooperating with the Ked Paddah, who are in an active state of war against the Licori, we should be able to get an accurate idea of their combat strength just from offering to join the fight. The Gaeni should have a good idea as well.
 
If someone is bothering you and in a way that the QM has also warned about, you should just report them. Let the mods do their work.
I'd actually be very pleased if we could get, like, a "declaration of values" statement for the thread, so that we'd have a basis for saying "this person is acting in a way the QM asked us to stop." I feel like the 'leave no stone standing atop another' ideas are obviously contrary to the values of the quest community, but I'm not sure how I'd go about proving that to a mod if trying to explain it.
 
That seems like a rather hopeless endeavour since I doubt that we will get much useful information considering that any such plan should be extremely classified and top secret.

Assuming we have to pick a Romulan intel option, and we already know their fleet strength and the stats of their new ship, I'm not really sure what else to ask.


[][EARS] Why are they so obsessed with birds?
 
Lessee...

[][SPOON] Cardassian shipyard report
[][EARS] Romulan war plans

[][REPORT] Licori fleet strength
[][REPORT] ETA on Licori doomsday weapon
[][REPORT] ??? something about enemy movements in the Gabriel Expanse?

How about this?
[][SPOON] Cardassian shipyard report
[][EARS] Romulan war plans

[][REPORT] Licori fleet strength
[][REPORT] Sydraxian shipyard report
[][REPORT] Enemy activity in the Gabriel Expanse

The Sydraxians have also massively expanded their building schedule.
 
How about this?
[][SPOON] Cardassian shipyard report
[][EARS] Romulan war plans

[][REPORT] Licori fleet strength
[][REPORT] Sydraxian shipyard report
[][REPORT] Enemy activity in the Gabriel Expanse

The Sydraxians have also massively expanded their building schedule.

Come to think of it, don't our enemy Fleet Combat Analyses also take an intel slot? If so, we'll need to spend one on that if we want to keep our +5% Combat bonus against the Cardassians for another year.
 
In age of sail naval combat, focusing fire was a tried and true method of winning battles, but was very difficult to accomplish. Engaging a ship individually meant that it was too occupied to engage another of your own. You would have battles where three duels were being fought which allowed three 2v1s on one side and a 1v3 on the other, while 2 ships on the losing side get cut out of the battle entirely thanks to positioning*. As the battle continues, the situation changes, but the genius in the most successful admirals was forcing a temporary advantage out of a relatively equal fight.

My point is that while focus fire is the most effective tactic, implementing it in battle is likely extremely difficult, likely because you cannot ignore unengaged vessels without first cutting them out of the fight through some kind of brilliance. If you order "all power to forward shields" in order to concentrate on one enemy then you get blown out by the Hasque that snuck up on you. In addition, all parties are constantly maneuvering and I am not so arrogant as to say that ours are better at it than theirs. Neither do weapons have full coverage or are as strong in all directions.

Doctrine research codifies methods to generate advantages that allow focused fire so that even less brilliant captains or fleet commanders can use them. It turns luck and instinct into rote training for both the crews and the commanding officers. They're not perfectly reliable or effective, but you are no longer relying on luck or unique brilliance.



*Made up example, but just look at Aboukir Bay or Trafalgar.


Come to think of it, don't our enemy Fleet Combat Analyses also take an intel slot? If so, we'll need to spend one on that if we want to keep our +5% Combat bonus against the Cardassians for another year.
I'd almost want a Sydraxian tactics report. Do we intend to engage the Cardassian fleet this year?
 
Ugh. We REALLY should have gotten an Offensive Doctrine/Foriegn Analysis team instead of a Medical Team.

Especially seeing as I remain totally unconvinced that that the revealed portions of the Doctrine Trees are the total extent of them.
 
Not sure what Ainsworth is smoking, because this is a defeat.

Starfleet Report On The Role Of Criminal Incompetence

They may have unlocked a tactic in their research tree that lets them focus fire.

We have not.

Ships don't fight like a wall of Battle.

Punishing captains for something they can not do does not make sense.

Also, just for narrative, weren't we playing defense? Our ships were escorting a prospector or something, right? If one of those ships tried to break off and chase after our prospector, we wouldn't have a chance to focus fire anyway.

Hell, we forced them to fail their primary objective and didn't pay much for it. Sounds like a win by default to me.
 
Assuming we have to pick a Romulan intel option, and we already know their fleet strength and the stats of their new ship, I'm not really sure what else to ask.


[][EARS] Why are they so obsessed with birds?

Well I personally would like to get some information about the Sotaw or perhaps a short brief about their "eastern" borders (do they border any other active race, how far does their realm extend etc.)

We could also go for a more political analysis and ask if the Romulan empire has affiliates or plans to get some/or how it simply views the idea of them. Or what political factions are currently/active influential.

Or go in a more military direction and ask for the location of their major mining colonies etc.

And if you guys really want to involve them in the Mentat issue asking for a intelligience analysis for that might also be a good idea. (Though I highly doubt they want to get involved in such a thing considering the threat of the Klingons)
 
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Also, just for narrative, weren't we playing defense? Our ships were escorting a prospector or something, right? If one of those ships tried to break off and chase after our prospector, we wouldn't have a chance to focus fire anyway.

Hell, we forced them to fail their primary objective and didn't pay much for it. Sounds like a win by default to me.

I'd agree if they hadn't managed to put one of our ships in the hospital for 6+ months without taking any heavy damage themselves.

I will say; for all that they're a bunch of A-holes, the Sydraxians are putting up a pretty impressive fight for a minor power. Our affiliates should take notes.
 
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So if we go to war with the Licori and don't want to strip down the GBZ, what can we reasonably and safely muster? I'm going to call the anti-Licori war fleet "Licori" and assume we want to go for a SOE-like restriction in how far we draw down our forces.

  • Sol: Send Renaissance to "Licori". Send Selaya (Constellation) to reinforce the Sydraxian Border Zone.
  • Vulcan: Send Winterwind (Centaur-A) and Sappho (Constellation) to "Licori".
  • Andor: Send Docana (Constellation) and Calypso (Miranda) to "Licori".
  • Tellar: Send Lightning (Centaur-A) and Stalwart (Constellation) to "Licori"
  • Amarkia: Send Blizzard (Centaur-A) and Thunderhead (Miranda) to "Licori"
  • Ferasa: Send Hood (Consitution-B) to "Licori"
  • Rigel: Send Gale (Centaur-A)
  • Apinae: No change (too far away)
  • RBZ: Send Excelsior (Excelsior) to "Licori"
  • KBZ: Send Thirishar (Excelsior) to "Licori"
  • CBZ: No change. (too far away and critical border zone)
  • SBZ: Send Endurance (Excelsior). Replace with Selaya.

End anti-Licori force:
  • 3 Excelsiors
  • 1 Renaissance
  • 1 Constitution-B
  • 4 Centaur-As
  • 3 Constellations
  • 2 Mirandas
Total of 54C, plus whichever of the Explorer Corps ships we can detach to add to the force.

As part of a coalition with the Ked Peddah and the Gaeni, this seems like a reasonable force.
 
How is this a strategic victory? I don't see any important resource we gained from the fight, or any important section of space. I don't see any benefit from the engagement.

WHAT?!? I thought we were suffering a crew shortage across the board, not to mention casualties prevent a ship from gaining crew quality. Not to mention the fact that it seems our accuracy is atrocious!
It's a Syndraxian Tactical Victory but a Strategic Defeat. We knocked out two of theirs and they knocked out two of ours. While we can replace our damaged ships pretty easily they're down two ships.

In short it's a Jutland on the small scale.
Star Trek Phasers != Win, no matter what everyone has been saying in the VS debates.

Also, -1 E isn't too bad. However, it does make evaluation of the battle complicated. Is 1 E and two ships (temporarily) worth taking out two of theirs? (temporarily)

We HAVE rules against being disruptive, and this isn't the first time. If that doesn't cover what he's been doing with his 'make the rubble bounce' fantasies, I don't even know what Rule 4 is for anymore.

If it's other people too, I'd like to see a bit more detail on what went wrong and why, for the sake of openness.
Given the general context of the quest (not an empire quest), the views of the other participants, and Oneiros's explicit warnings, I would rule it as disruptive.

Of course, I am not a mod :/

--------------
On a lighter note:
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"YEAH YOU GO, EXETER! WOOO! WE LOVE YOU!"
^ Because you can only rate once.
"Iiiii'll just be handling citations for this year's Matthews-Rayburn Award. Hmm... Challorn or Courageous. Hmm..."

Personally, I would go for Courageous.

EC bias, Protag bias, and Cool bias.
 
So if we go to war with the Licori and don't want to strip down the GBZ, what can we reasonably and safely muster? I'm going to call the anti-Licori war fleet "Licori" and assume we want to go for a SOE-like restriction in how far we draw down our forces.

  • Sol: Send Renaissance to "Licori". Send Selaya (Constellation) to reinforce the Sydraxian Border Zone.
  • Vulcan: Send Winterwind (Centaur-A) and Sappho (Constellation) to "Licori".
  • Andor: Send Docana (Constellation) and Calypso (Miranda) to "Licori".
  • Tellar: Send Lightning (Centaur-A) and Stalwart (Constellation) to "Licori"
  • Amarkia: Send Blizzard (Centaur-A) and Thunderhead (Miranda) to "Licori"
  • Ferasa: Send Hood (Consitution-B) to "Licori"
  • Rigel: Send Gale (Centaur-A)
  • Apinae: No change (too far away)
  • RBZ: Send Excelsior (Excelsior) to "Licori"
  • KBZ: Send Thirishar (Excelsior) to "Licori"
  • CBZ: No change. (too far away and critical border zone)
  • SBZ: Send Endurance (Excelsior). Replace with Selaya.

End anti-Licori force:
  • 3 Excelsiors
  • 1 Renaissance
  • 1 Constitution-B
  • 4 Centaur-As
  • 3 Constellations
  • 2 Mirandas
Total of 54C, plus whichever of the Explorer Corps ships we can detach to add to the force.

As part of a coalition with the Ked Peddah and the Gaeni, this seems like a reasonable force.

54C should definitely be enough, but hopefully we won't need that much.

The Ked-Padda probably have a reasonably good idea of Licori fleet strength, since they've been fighting them for two years. Ask them for their estimates (unfortunately, our own intel report might not be ready in time for the war), and compare that against the combined Gaeni and KP forces. From there, we can determine how many Starfleet ships should be added.

Ideally, I'd like the invasion fleet to have at least twice as much conventional firepower as the Licori.
 
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54C should definitely be enough, but hopefully we won't need that much.

The Ked-Padda probably have a reasonably good idea of Licori fleet strength, since they've been fighting them for two years. Ask them for their estimates (unfortunately, our own intel report might not be ready in time for the war), and compare that against the combined Gaeni and KP forces. From there, we can determine how many Starfleet ships should be added.

Ideally, I'd like the invasion fleet to have at least twice as much conventional firepower as the Licori.
Given the location of the incident and prior events we can almost certainly expect some degree of reinforcements from member fleets. Earth, Rigel and Betazed all have good reason to want those lunatics to stop risking wiping out their civilizations with an ACTUAL supernova, and the Vulcans had a Mentat experimental screwup go down in their own space.
 
Given the location of the incident and prior events we can almost certainly expect some degree of reinforcements from member fleets. Earth, Rigel and Betazed all have good reason to want those lunatics to stop risking wiping out their civilizations with an ACTUAL supernova, and the Vulcans had a Mentat experimental screwup go down in their own space.

On the other hand, we might need to leave those member fleets in place to guard our own space while Starfleet is stretched thin fighting two wars on opposite flanks.
 
Also, just for narrative, weren't we playing defense? Our ships were escorting a prospector or something, right? If one of those ships tried to break off and chase after our prospector, we wouldn't have a chance to focus fire anyway.

Hell, we forced them to fail their primary objective and didn't pay much for it. Sounds like a win by default to me.
Eh. Heavy damage to one of our ships constitutes enough of a "good news for their side" that this really isn't a win for us. We only have so many ships available to escort our civilian vessels, so having one of them put in the hospital for 9-12 months is a serious problem.

Basically, the outcome is close enough that we can't judge whether it was a win or a loss until we know the strategic consequences. I'd say this is a loss for us if having Challorn out of commission enables a Sydraxian raid to exploit a weakness and do damage later. I'd say this is a win for us if Ainsworth rapidly seizes the opportunity granted by the Sydraxians stopping to repair two of their ships and hits them hard in a tender spot. I'd say it's a tie if nothing major happens on either side as a result, because the casualties weren't that high and nobody actually lost a ship.

I'd agree if they hadn't managed to put one of our ships in the hospital for 6+ months without taking any heavy damage themselves.

I will say; for all that they're a bunch of A-holes, the Sydraxians are putting up a pretty impressive fight for a minor power. Our affiliates should take notes.
That said, note that the Sydraxian ships screamed and ran away as soon as their shields were collapsed by EXETER SMASH. This may represent a change in their rules of engagement, exactly the sort of change you'd expect if they are either one, afraid of us... or two, out of repair berths for damaged ships.

Personally, I would go for Courageous.

EC bias, Protag bias, and Cool bias.
The Matthews-Rayburn Captain of the Year award is given specifically for acting to preserve redshirt lives, generally by doing something out of the ordinary. It's the collective old redshirt hands of Starfleet voting you "Best. Captain. EVER." At least for this year, and only if you did things in ways that result in minimizing redshirt casualties.

[Kirk would never, never have won this award, if it had existed back in his glory days, which it didn't, as the names of the awards show. He tried, but he just never could pull it off]

Mbeki got the 2311 award for managing to save almost the entire crew of the Miracht despite the ship taking a radical nacellectomy.

Saavik got the award one year just by putting in her log something along the lines of "I have declined to remain in a known ambush zone awaiting further developments, and am instead proceeding to Risa," which is, well, "Best. Captain. EVER."

Nash got it in 2310 for inspired safety briefings, and probably at least one other year given how good she is at keeping her crew alive.

Thuir got the, uh... 2302? award for his handling of Ulith III, and also received the more prestigious Kaplan-Mallory Award for same.

McAdams is definitely a contender, though. But the year is young, so who knows what will happen?
 
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