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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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Void Stalker said:
@Nix why deflector emitters as opposed to deflector shields for the 2316 version?
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So the sr savings apply to the T3 shields (sounds like emitters have to be completed first for that). Presumably the next new ship class would be a while away, and we'll probably recruit another shield team in the next few years, so I'd expect both projects to finish in time for that.
 
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lbmaian said:
The main point of waiting until 2318 is the survey sensors, right? Those aren't stated up currently in the design spreadsheet, but I would expect a novel component to make a significant difference, so I wouldn't mind waiting for them.
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The problem is that we, Starfleet Command, officially stated during the recent Starfleet Tactical vote that we wanted a new science ship in the near future. Not taking steps to fill that need when we explicitly voted to do so is going to cause problems for us in the form of political blowback from the Council.
 
lbmaian said:


IIRC the old snapshot of the economy spreadsheet indicated different racial needs and many more different types of cargo (like BR/SR ore, BR/SR, food, etc.). The civilian ships all do seem to share the same cargo/bulk/special stats though.



10 what? Construction time for what?





Apiata might be exceptions with their unique reliance on Worker Bees and Bumblebees and Foragers and lack of dedicated freighters and prospectors.
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Thanks for the info on Spc = Special, I did update questions 2 and 4 to be more specific. Also for the Apiata, Bumblebees seem to be Freighters and Worker Bees Engineering ships. Foragers though are science escorts and tracked under the combat section (their Oberth equivalent with a bit more punch)

@OneirosTheWriter also if you have nothing else that needs to be voted on now would probably be a good time for Fleet Deployment Plans
 
lbmaian said:
The main point of waiting until 2318 is the survey sensors, right? Those aren't stated up currently in the design spreadsheet, but I would expect a novel component to make a significant difference, so I wouldn't mind waiting for them. Unlike the Ambassador which we want ASAP for our FYMs, the Kepler isn't that urgent, and if waiting until 2318 nets us another stat point at minimal cost, I'd be happy with that.
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I'm not a fan of waiting for a part that we don't know anything about. If we knew what survey sensors did, I could make a decision for them. As long as I don't, I do not support waiting for them. If they don't have the science efficiency of labs or other sensors then we may not even be able to include them.

We could definitely make a fine Kepler in 2316 with T'Koren sickbays - you've seen the designs. I've quickly tested the effects of T3 SR Sensors and they're not very significant.
The 2317 parts list is decent. In particular the New Orleans nacelles would be a boon. It's not too different to 2316 though.
The only real benefit to 2318 is Survey Sensors.

Nix said:
Expected parts in 2316: T'Koren sickbays, T3 SR Sensors, T3 EPS Systems, T2 Escort Tactical Frames, T2 Escort Engineering Frames

Expected parts in 2317: T'Koren sickbays, T3 SR Sensors, T2 SIF, T3 EPS Systems, T2 Warp Core Ejection Parts, T2 Nacelles, T2 Navigational Deflectors, T2 Escort Engineering Frames, T2 Phasers (43% chance without boost)

Expected parts in 2318: T'Koren sickbays, T3 SR Sensors, T3 Survey Sensors (requires 3 boosts), T2 SIF, T3 EPS Systems, T3 Warp Cores, T3 Injectors, T2 Warp Core Ejection Parts, T2 Nacelles, T2 Navigational Deflectors, T2 Escort Tactical Frames, T2 Escort Engineering Frames, T2 Phasers
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I've bolded the parts that I believe would be particularly beneficial to the Kepler, using some sheet testing and my list:

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
This list is entirely independent of what ships we want to design.

High Importance:
T2 Torpedoes (excellent OH weight savings, improved stats)
T2 Light Computers (weight savings on small ships)
T2 Heavy Computers (weight savings on large ships)
T2 Diplomacy (large improvement in the heavy version)
T1 Rec (large improvement)
T2 Sickbay (allows small sickbays, fair increase)
T3 Shields (very large improvement)

Medium:
T3 SR Sensors (improvement in the heavy version)
T3 Computers (stat increase)
T3 Hull (small stat increase but any stat on the hull is very important)
T2 SIF (small stat increase but any stat on the hull is very important)
T2 Deflector (small improvement)
T2 Light Nacelles (weight savings)
Larger Explorer frames (more kilotons)

Low Importance:
T2 Phasers (marginal improvement)
T2 LR Sensors (improvement offset by weight gain)
T2 OS (marginal improvement)
T2 Heavy Nacelles (small improvement)
T3 Coolant (marginal improvement)
All Frames except larger Explorer (marginal improvement)
All Subframes (marginal improvement)

Not Statted (extrapolated priority):
Survey Sensors (?)
Specialist Subframes (?)
T2 Medium Nacelles (? hard to predict)
T1 Replication Packages (High: normally a large improvement)
T3 Heavy Lab (High: normally a fair improvement)
T3 Nav Sensors (Med: normally a small improvement)
T2 Impulse (Med: normally a fair improvement)
T2 Fuel Storage (Med: normally a fair improvement)
T3 Warp Cores (Med: normally a fair improvement)
T2 Med and Light Labs (Low: usually difficult to use anyway)
T3 TCU (Low: normally marginal improvement)
T3 M/AM Injectors (Low: small improvement)
T3 EPS Systems (Low: small improvement)
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I would strongly consider the 2316 Kepler. It may mean the difference between getting a wave out with Chen and not having her bonus.
 
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lbmaian said:
The main point of waiting until 2318 is the survey sensors, right? Those aren't stated up currently in the design spreadsheet, but I would expect a novel component to make a significant difference, so I wouldn't mind waiting for them. Unlike the Ambassador which we want ASAP for our FYMs, the Kepler isn't that urgent, and if waiting until 2318 nets us another stat point at minimal cost, I'd be happy with that./
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We actually kind of do. Don't think of these Keplers as little one-offs we're only going to build a few of, like Oberths. These will likely be produced in a lot more bulk. The survey sensors would be nice, but I don't really see it as nice enough to hold up the entire ship for, especially if it costs 3 boosts just to get there.

@Nix one question about Kepler parts. Where do we stand on those T1 Recreation parts? Seems like they could also be important to the design.
 
Briefvoice said:
We actually kind of do. Don't think of these Keplers as little one-offs we're only going to build a few of, like Oberths. These will likely be produced in a lot more bulk. The survey sensors would be nice, but I don't really see it as nice enough to hold up the entire ship for, especially if it costs 3 boosts just to get there.

@Nix one question about Kepler parts. Where do we stand on those T1 Recreation parts? Seems like they could also be important to the design.
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Those are from the 2310s Affiliate Research which we are waiting on the corrected values, but I believe once corrected they should be in range to finish this year.
 
Jrin said:
I wonder how the series would showcase the end of Master of Orion?
Perhaps an official report at the end then fade to black or do a subtle showing of the effects on the ground as the Syndicate dies like in the Winning report. Maybe documentary style in an episode.
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probably end the celios campaign with a discussion about how the syndicate's forces are broken and it's credibility is shot, now is the time to reform the system to permanently end it as a threat. Then have an episode about the political maneuverings around the legal reform, with a plot thread that they are on the look out for anyone the syndicate is using to try and stop it. They find a lot of attempts to sway senators, but all of them basically told the syndicate to go to hell, even senators who "owe" the syndicate laughed them off because they can't enforce their debts anymore. End the episode with the syndicate agent on the scene having a breakdown about how far they have fallen, and how it's the end of something stretching back thousands of years. Make a point of having it come off as at least a little bit sad, that something so old and so important to so many is dying. Then have a rebuttal about how the syndicate was the reasons the onions spend thousands of years among the stars as a stagnant band of thugs, and now they can move forward towards a better tomorrow.

essentially the theme of the episode is that the syndicate has nothing left, and that after thousands of years it's dying out. Make the syndicate commander a true believer and try and make her at least a little sympathetic, like a good german socialist in the closing days of WWII. It's a little sad, but on the whole the death of the syndicate is a very good thing.
 
Steven Kodaly said:
The problem is that we, Starfleet Command, officially stated during the recent Starfleet Tactical vote that we wanted a new science ship in the near future. Not taking steps to fill that need when we explicitly voted to do so is going to cause problems for us in the form of political blowback from the Council.
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Source?

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
I'm not a fan of waiting for a part that we don't know anything about. If we knew what survey sensors did, I could make a decision for them. As long as I don't, I do not support waiting for them. If they don't have the science efficiency of labs or other sensors then we may not even be able to include them.
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Well I suppose we can ask again. @OneirosTheWriter, could you stat up the T3 survey sensors, or at least indicate what are the trade-offs of survey sensors vs long-range sensors vs science labs? It's important for determining whether to vote for a Kepler 2316 or Kepler 2317/18 research plan.

Briefvoice said:
We actually kind of do. Don't think of these Keplers as little one-offs we're only going to build a few of, like Oberths. These will likely be produced in a lot more bulk. The survey sensors would be nice, but I don't really see it as nice enough to hold up the entire ship for, especially if it costs 3 boosts just to get there.
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Nowhere did I say that Keplers shouldn't be mass produced. I just don't think they're that critically urgent to start mass producing.
 
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If we're waiting on some parts but the current design is solid, why can't we release a 'Block 1' Kepler now and a 'Block 2' Kepler when the parts are ready?
 
lbmaian said:
edit: Geez Yan-Ros really have no non-civilian ships at all. They're completely reliant on the Honiani? Our first contact with them was probably a Honiani-loaned possibly modified transport.
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Yeah, this is why I didn't think recruiting them was such a high priority- no navy. It's quite possible that their concept of warfare may be almost entirely one of individual personal combatants, single combat between champions, and so on.

edit2: The just-built Orion Vigilante ship (C5 S4 H5 L5 P4 D5 1800kt) is classified as a modern explorer here. Under the old Starfleet definitions that's a max-weight cruiser, but for the Orions, that's conceivably a capital ship.
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We've had discussions of 1.8 megaton "pocket explorers," and if you built one with roughly 2300-level technology it'd probably have about the same statline as the Vigilante give or take a little. Seems fair to me.

Constitutions continue to be classified as explorers, even though all except one are actually Connie-Bs and thus cruisers.
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Are all our ConnieBees being thus classified, or only the [i}Cheron?[/i] The Cheron is, de facto, performing like a pocket explorer, so I'm not going to stress about that.

chriswriter90 said:
If we're waiting on some parts but the current design is solid, why can't we release a 'Block 1' Kepler now and a 'Block 2' Kepler when the parts are ready?
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This is an absolutely brilliant and realistic idea that people do all the time in real life. Unfortunately, it doesn't play well with the design process in this game unless I'm mistaken.
 
aeqnai said:
Here:
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Right, I did vaguely recall this, but I couldn't find the details.

Starting the Kepler project in 2318 would be within the 5 years of the time we established the science frigate role. It would be the very last year we could safely start it though.

But if there really is a 5 year deadline for each role, doesn't that mean we have to create new garrison frigate & combat frigate designs soon? Those roles were established or revealed in 2312. Our garrison frigate (Centaur-A) was last updated in 2307 (refit project started 2306), and the combat frigate (Miranda-A) was last updated in 2311 (refit project started 2310). The garrison frigate is overdue for an update according to this 5 year deadline standard :confused:
 
lbmaian said:
But if there really is a 5 year deadline for each role, doesn't that mean we have to create new garrison frigate & combat frigate designs soon? Those roles were established or revealed in 2312. Our garrison frigate (Centaur-A) was last updated in 2307 (refit project started 2306), and the combat frigate (Miranda-A) was last updated in 2311 (refit project started 2310). The garrison frigate is overdue for an update according to this 5 year deadline standard :confused:
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If only we could up the Kepler to C3, then it could do both the jobs of Science Frigate & Garrison Frigate.
 
chriswriter90 said:
If we're waiting on some parts but the current design is solid, why can't we release a 'Block 1' Kepler now and a 'Block 2' Kepler when the parts are ready?
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We could do this...if refit designs were dirt cheap in pp (and potentially rp in the future). If refit designs were practically free, we'd churn out what amounts to revised block/flights year after year, with ships only being updated to the latest refit design when it makes enough of a difference since their last update.

I'd imagine that would be a huge headache for the QM to keep track of the details, and a very harried SDB thread churning out new refit designs on the double.
 
chriswriter90 said:
If only we could up the Kepler to C3, then it could do both the jobs of Science Frigate & Garrison Frigate.
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Using technology from the amazing distant year of 2316 we're looking at Keplers maxing out at around:
Kepler [1096k t]
C3 S8 H2 L4 P5 D4
Cost[110br, 90sr, 2.5 years], Crew [O-3, E-4, T-4]​

Although there have been numerous designs that trade various things. For example there has been a number of C1 designs since theoretically, @OneirosTheWriter has yet to comment either way, they would be treated as C0 against our Combat Cap while deployed inside border zones.
 
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2314.Q2 - Snakepit Results
  • Threadmarks
    • [X] [COUNCIL] Plan Intelligence, Education, Diplomacy and Industrial Expansion
    -[X] Request Academy Development, 35pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
    -[X] Request Science Academy Development, 15pp (Gain +1 Techs throughput)
    -[X] Request new Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, 20pp [pure medical, possible background: split Starfleet Medical Command research into two divisions, Medical Equipment (existing team) and Experimental Treatments (new team)]
    -[X] Request Mining Colony at Ulen Gao VII, 8pp (4 turns, gain +20 (25) br/year)
    -[X] Request Mining Colony at Peco Sigma, 8pp (4 turns, gain +10 (20) sr/year)
    -[X] Request Mining Colony at Castor IV-2, 8pp (4 turns, gain +20 (30) sr/year)
    -[X] Request new Starbase I [Betazed] (15+12) * 0.75 = 20.25pp
    -[X] Request new Shipyard at Betazed, 18pp (8 turns, 2 1mt Berths)
    -[X] Request new Shipyard at Apinae , 33pp, (12 turns, 1 3mt Berth, 1 1mt Berth)
    -[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp [Yrillians]
    -[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp [Ittick-ka]
    -[X] Deploy Improved Listening Posts to a Border Zone to gain a 25% chance of generating +1 Intel report for powers on that border. (Cardassian Border Zone), 20pp
    -[X] Reorganise a Starfleet Command from a Rear Admiral position to a Vice Admiral position: 20pp for Starfleet Intelligence


    [X][FACTION] Approach the Expansionists. Doubtless they have heard of pro-Cardassian leanings among the Yrillians that would have them siding with the Sydraxians in the event of a general war. The Council has also given frequent reminders of how squeezed Starfleet is for transports in its auxiliary fleet. Why not solve one problem with another? Yrillians are famous for building more ships than they strictly need. We would like to begin an outreach program by hiring Yrillian cargo ships and freighters to alleviate our temporary shipping crunch. Depending on availability, this could be extended to include other auxiliary ship work where the Federation's expansion has left us straining. The goal is to alleviate that strain and simultaneously to show ordinary Yrillian work gangs how working with the Federation aligns with their interests, thus increasing pro-Federation sentiment among the Yrillians at large.

    [X][NAME] Lasieth Craft Yards

    [ ][FLEET] Issue new Fleet Deployment Plan

    Approach the Expansionists about an unconventional approach to the Yrillians

    "Councillor sh'Arrath, I'm grateful you could spare the time to see me," you begin as you enter the Andorian's office.

    "Pish, Admiral, I've a lot more time on my hands now that I'm no longer President," the other woman replies as she looks up at you.

    You grin at that. "For what it's worth, I'm sure the lack of stress will do you good. I received a message from Admiral Kahurangi just recently, and the last few years have seemingly aged her in reverse."

    "Good to hear, Vitalia deserves the rest," answers Jorlyth. "Now, what can we do for each other today?"

    You begin to outline a few suggestions and Jorlyth nods along slowly. At the end her lips are pressed thinly, but she is still nodding. "Well, that's possible... The Hawks won't like it, and I suspect the Developers will be no great fans either. They'd want to handle things in-house. It may come down to what we can offer the Pacifists and Mercantilists."


    [Options to develop a Council-level approach to the Yrillians will be presented during a 2314.Q2.M2 Council Sessions post]

    ============

    Total Cost 245 PP

    Council Sessions Preparing

    The Council will be holding a special session with the FDS to examine the failings of the attempted diplomatic outreach to the Ittick-ka. Some Starfleet officers will be requested to provide recorded testimony of encounters with the Ittick-ka, but this will occur mainly between Council and FDS.

    Council Reporting
    A Session will discuss Starfleet proposals to alleviate the shipping crunch that is being exacerbated by the Gabriel Border Zone effort.

    Ship Design & Refit Projects


    -

    Colonies Commenced
    Request Mining Colony at Ulen Gao VII, 8pp (4 turns, gain +20 (25) br/year)
    Request Mining Colony at Peco Sigma, 8pp (4 turns, gain +10 (20) sr/year)
    Request Mining Colony at Castor IV-2, 8pp (4 turns, gain +20 (30) sr/year)

    Shipyard Expansions Commenced / Complete
    Completed - Lasieth Craft Yards, 4x 1,000kt berths, Auxiliary Shipyard

    Shipyard has been placed under command of a joint panel of Starfleet Logistics Command, Medical Command, Engineering Command, and Colony Command.

    Shipyard at Betazed, 18pp (8 turns, 2 1mt Berths) - ETC 2316.Q2
    Shipyard at Apinae , 33pp, (12 turns, 1 3mt Berth, 1 1mt Berth) - ETC 2317.Q2

    Installations Commenced / Complete
    Starbase 12 [Betazed] commenced, ETC 2315.Q2
    Improved Listening Posts to a Border Zone to gain a 25% chance of generating +1 Intel report for powers on that border. (Cardassian Border Zone), 20pp, ETC 2315.Q2

    Starfleet Academy
    Academy Development, 35pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
    Science Academy Development, 15pp (Gain +1 Techs throughput)

    These will become active in the following income period.

    Tech Teams Requested
    Starfleet Medical Command research team will reorganise into the following:

    Starfleet Medical Research Command - Medical/Personal Tech, Skill 4, 5/6 Xp
    Starfleet Infectious Diseases Institute - Medical-only, Skill 3, 0/5 Xp

    (QM/N: You're getting some extra leeway because of how this approach lined up happily with the existing org chart, so a Skill 3 start instead of Skill 2)

    Starfleet Reorganisation
    The billet of Director, Starfleet Intelligence, is being elevated to a Vice Admiral position. This will open up a handful of Rear Admiral billets beneath the director, and will give Intelligence officers more scope to progress their career, helping retain them for longer.

    The full reorganisation will complete in 2 Quarters.

    Diplomatic Pushes:
    Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp [Yrillians]
    Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp [Ittick-ka]

    Yrillians 164/100 + 24 = 184/100
    Ittick-ka - Rejected, FDS unable to make meaningful contact.

    Federation Diplomatic Service commencing an assessment of future prospects with the Ittick-ka. Current belief is that the Ittick-ka will refuse overtures from any other powers where it does not hold the upper hand. This is also believed to include the Cardassians, or Klingons. Chance of violent results if something cannot be done to change Ittick-ka attitudes is high.

    Member World Coordination Office

    Ships Commenced in 2314.Q2:

    Andor - 1 Renaissance (NCC-2613)
    Vulcan - 1 Renaissance (NCC-2612)
    Tellar - 3 Renaissance (NCC-2609, 2610, 2611)
    Human - 3 Renaissance (NCC-2606, 2607, 2608)
    Betazed - 1 Renaissance (NCC-2614)

    Ships Commissioned in 2314.Q2:

    Amarkia - Repair [USS Endurance]
    Caldonia - 1 Civilian Ship
    Indoria - Repair[USS Shield]
    Qloath - 1 Civilian Freighter
    Orion - 1 Patrol Escort

    Shipbuilding Operations Report
    The requested builds, refits, and repairs scheduled for this quarter have completed, namely:

    Refit of USS Bon Vivant (NCC-1621) to Miranda-A spec at Utopia Planitia Berth 1
    Refit of USS T'Kumbra (NCC -1659) to Miranda-A spec at Utopia Planitia Berth 2

    USS Exeter, NCC-1748, Costitution-B-class, at Ana Font Shipyard Berth 1

    USS Typhoon, NCC-2124, Centaur-A-class, at San Francisco Berth 1
    USS Cloudburst, NCC-2125, Centaur-A-class, at San Francisco Berth 2

    USS Renaissance, NX-2601, Renaissance-class, at Utopia Planitia Berth 3

    The requested builds, refits, and repairs scheduled for this quarter have commenced, namely:

    One Renaissance class ship (Starfleet Build Order NCC-2602) to commence at Ana Font Shipyard Berth 1 in 2314.Q2
    One Renaissance class ship (Starfleet Build Order NCC-2603) to commence at Utopia Planitia Fleetyards Berth 1 in 2314.Q2
    One Renaissance class ship (Starfleet Build Order NCC-2604) to commence at Utopia Planitia Fleetyards Berth 2 in 2314.Q2
    One Renaissance class ship (Starfleet Build Order NCC-2605) to commence at Utopia Planitia Fleetyards Berth 3 in 2314.Q2

    Auxiliary:
    1 Hospital Ship Prototype
    2 Starfleet Freighter
    1 Starfleet Prospector

    =================

    Two Excelsiors (NCC-2021, 2022) at Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards are being crewed this quarter
    12 Officer, 10 Enlisted, 10 Technician

    One Constitution-B (NCC-1752) at Lor'Vela OCF is being crewed this quarter
    3 Officer, 4 Enlisted, 4 Technician

    Result:
    Standard Starfleet: 0 Officer, 8.5 Enlisted, 1 Techs
    Explorer Corps: 0.75 Officer, 3.6 Enlisted, 4.55 Techs



    From: Commander Peter Merkel, Superintendent, Utopia Planitia Fleetyards, Berth 3
    To: Admiral Valentina Sousa, Starfleet Command; Rear Admiral Shrai sh'Cothyk, Director, Utopia Planitia Shipyards; Vice Admiral Patricia Chen, Shipyard Operations Command
    Subject: Certificate of Completion

    To Whom It May Concern,

    As per Starfleet Regulations IV-12 (a), as Superintendent of this Shipyard Berth, I herein certify that the project under my command, the construction of the USS Renaissance (Renaissance-class cruiser, Fleet Order NX-2601) is complete, assessed, and ready to be added to the Fleet Register.

    Sincerely,
    Commander Peter Merkel
     
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    • OneirosTheWriter said:
    From: Commander Peter Merkel, Superintendent, Utopia Planitia Fleetyards, Berth 3
    To: Admiral Valentina Sousa, Starfleet Command; Rear Admiral Shrai sh'Cothyk, Director, Utopia Planitia Shipyards; Vice Admiral Patricia Chen, Shipyard Operations Command
    Subject: Certificate of Completion

    To Whom It May Concern,

    As per Starfleet Regulations IV-12 (a), as Superintendent of this Shipyard Berth, I herein certify that the project under my command, the construction of the USS Renaissance (Renaissance-class cruiser, Fleet Order NX-2601) is complete, assessed, and ready to be added to the Fleet Register.

    Sincerely,
    Commander Peter Merkel
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    Yes, let the Rennies begin to rule the skies!
     
    Wow.

    That was a pretty.... well disappointing no sell by the I-bugs.

    At least we know they'll be thorn in everyone else's side too.
     
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