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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Abhishek M said:
You know I am pretty sure next turn we will have a

Nah, Armor now. Gauntlet Talon Weapons later. I figure researching stuff for the Talons too would take too long. Armor and potential Talisman? A Master Rune of Passage Talisman GIrdle for his wings should take less time than Adamant Gauntlets.

No idea what gloin is sporting in terms of weapon right now. Probably low T3 at best if soulcake is generous.
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The Sky King's Armor and the Banner is personally all I think we'll have time for next turn if Kholek does what I think he's going to and reach Kraka Drakk at the end of turn 19's results i.e in another ten years. I expect however long he's going to take will be relatively well indicated in the turn 19 sitrep post.

That does preclude any testing we could do, which is unfortunate. If the sitrep in turn 19 indicates that Kholek won't arrive for twenty years then we have time to do one round of combo testing and then make the armor on turn 20.
 
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
If we have the time to spend two turns in the process, I'd say the best idea would be to try out multiple combos specifically meant for a hypothetical equipment for the King of the Skies (alongside crafting the Banner) and then next turn, put forth at least 4 actions, maybe even 5, into a multiset project, probably armor and weapons (guantlets, talons, whatever), maybe a Talisman instead, using viable combos. Since overflow goes into the next part, this will get them done in one turn and not two with overflow to spare.

Normally armor might be "enough" but with someone like Kholek on the field and this influx of T4 materials that can be applied to runes we know (I'm hopeful Rune of Cold reacts positively to Frostwyrm Blood as the Rune of Frost did) it'd be a shame not to go further beyond. And the King of the Skies has earned as much. If we can't give him Adamant we can at least give him weapons as well as armor.

@BungieONI suggested some good combos, though I personally feel that wind going around rock (Striking) and not cleaving through it (Cleaving) to better fit the Dwarven mindset, especially after soulcake commented on how air and flight is in spite of wind, not with it, for Dwarves.

And @Alratan had a cool "meteor in the void combo".
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Can people please for the love of god stop obsessing over combos as the end all of crafting when we are in a middle of one of the worst possible incursions in history? Because now does not seem like the time for possible decades of people using up combos when we are about to get hit by one of Chaos' greatest champions. We literally just seen that we don't need to combo to make epic level artifacts as shown with the Kings armor. Especially since armor is unlikely to even combo in the first place.

Seriously, the point of armor is protection, which explains why comboing isn't a priority compared to other things. Rather we not suffer potentially far more because people decided to obsess over min maxing at the worst possible time when it wasn't practical.
 
Red Bovine said:
Can people please for the love of god stop obsessing over combos as the end all of crafting when we are in a middle of one of the worst possible incursions in history? Because now does not seem like the time for possible decades of people using up combos when we are about to get hit by one of Chaos' greatest champions. We literally just seen that we don't need to combo to make epic level artifacts as shown with the Kings armor. Especially since armor is unlikely to even combo in the first place.

Seriously, the point of armor is protection, which explains why comboing isn't a priority compared to other things. Rather we not suffer potentially far more because people decided to obsess over min maxing at the worst possible time when it wasn't practical.
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Red Bovine, I've argued for expediency over greater results before as well. So please note that I said "If we have the time to spend two turns in the process"
 
Red Bovine said:
Can people please for the love of god stop obsessing over combos as the end all of crafting when we are in a middle of one of the worst possible incursions in history? Because now does not seem like the time for possible decades of people using up combos when we are about to get hit by one of Chaos' greatest champions. We literally just seen that we don't need to combo to make epic level artifacts as shown with the Kings armor. Especially since armor is unlikely to even combo in the first place.

Seriously, the point of armor is protection, which explains why comboing isn't a priority compared to other things. Rather we not suffer potentially far more because people decided to obsess over min maxing at the worst possible time when it wasn't practical.
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The armour also needs to be 'big enough to ride' when going against a kaiju wielding a magical hammer that's disproportionately large even for him. We need every advantage we can get here. The King of the Skies going up against Kholek could well be something like a pigeon attacking a pre-teen in terms of relative scale.

An epic level item probably doesn't cut it here - and that epic level item was made entirely out of adamant save for the decoration, significantly strengthening its runes. We don't have that advantage here, as we don't have enough adamant.
 
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When we make the Sky Kings armor why don't we push more into the conceptual space that the armor is also a weapon in regards to runes? Master Rune of Currents, Rune of Lightning, Rune of Impact for a combo of Thunderstruck.

Edit: Currents not Swiftness
 
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Imugi said:
When we make the Sky Kings armor why don't we push more into the conceptual space that the armor is also a weapon in regards to runes? Master Rune of Swiftness, Rune of Lightning, Rune of Impact for a combo of Thunderstruck.
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Unfortunately we don't know that Master Rune.
 
It's better to spend an action point to Advice the King to send messenger asking the other Holds especially minor Hold to Evacuate there population while they still can with there resource preferably, since Literally were are facing Almost unending tide of demons plus the Champion that is leading them, there is no absolute point for a minor Dwarf hold to stay and defend, its rational for them to temporally go to Kraka Drak and join forces than staying behind and defend there hold when they know they will absolutely die and be erased,"but! Keeeper the dawwieee ish stubborn peoplllee, shut up! you know the Dwarves no matter how hard headed they are, know when to quit a battle, when enough is enough and live to fight another day".
 
BungieONI said:
Soul's specified that for the purposes of Set bonuses in the FAQ that everyone has: Armor, 2 enchanted items, 2 weapons.

Planning for two items is in the cards yeah.
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Then it looks like the three tests can be understood as:
Test 1: Armor
Test 2: Weapon (Gauntlets)
Test 3: Weapon (Wingblades)

And they all can be used for the same set if they all combo.

With 1 Talisman slot taken up by the translating gift he recieved earlier, all that's left to potentially add to the set is filling the last Talisman Slot, which we could swing by making it the helmet, or something.
 
Enthusiast#117 said:
Then it looks like the three tests can be understood as:
Test 1: Armor
Test 2: Weapon (Gauntlets)
Test 3: Weapon (Wingblades)

And they all can be used for the same set if they all combo.

With 1 Talisman slot taken up by the translating gift he recieved earlier, all that's left to potentially add to the set is filling the last Talisman Slot, which we could swing by making it the helmet, or something.
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We could do something like make a tabard-banner, something like Master Rune of Gromril, Rune of Frost, and Rune of Guarding, using the frostwyrm scale, themed around an impenetrable blizzard.
 
Keeper of Dreams said:
It's better to spend an action point to Advice the King to send messenger asking the other Holds especially minor Hold to Evacuate there population while they still can with there resource preferably, since Literally were are facing Almost unending tide of demons plus the Champion that is leading them, there is no absolute point for a minor Dwarf hold to stay and defend, its rational for them to temporally go to Kraka Drak and join forces than staying behind and defend there hold when they know they will absolutely die and be erased,"but! Keeeper the dawwieee ish stubborn peoplllee, shut up! you know the Dwarves no matter how hard headed they are, know when to quit a battle, when enough is enough and live to fight another day".
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Seriously, what is it with people thinking that no one else is competent enough to handle things and for some reason believe us to be more competent at the job that people have literally spent their whole lives training and gaining experience in? And it definitely comes across as that. If the Dwarfs in charge believe something like that is necessary than I trust the people who should by all right be more knowledgeable and experienced enough to be competent enough to make that call.
 
Enthusiast#117 said:
Then it looks like the three tests can be understood as:
Test 1: Armor
Test 2: Weapon (Gauntlets)
Test 3: Weapon (Wingblades)

And they all can be used for the same set if they all combo.

With 1 Talisman slot taken up by the translating gift he recieved earlier, all that's left to potentially add to the set is filling the last Talisman Slot, which we could swing by making it the helmet, or something.
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Theoretically, depends if Gauntlets or Wingblades count as greatweapons since Greatweapons take up all the weapon slots.
 
Alratan said:
The armour also needs to be 'big enough to ride' when going against a kaiju wielding a magical hammer that's disproportionately large even for him. We need every advantage we can get here. The King of the Skies going up against Kholek could well be something like a pigeon attacking a pre-teen in terms of relative scale.

An epic level item probably doesn't cut it here - and that epic level item was made entirely out of adamant save for the decoration, significantly strengthening its runes. We don't have that advantage here, as we don't have enough adamant.
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Problem is that Kholek is coming right the fuck now and if people keep pushing things off then the Sky King is just going to end up going into battle without any armor whatsoever because people forgot that time doesn't stand still when a freaking disaster is happening at the very moment. The Sky King is pretty much the equivelant of a Demi God of his race who has likely grown even more powerful after eating the heart of an Elder Dragon. The guy has plenty of killing power as is and feel like that we just need to accept that we should prioritize his defense. And again, armor seems incredibly unlikely to combo due to the number of runes available being limited.
 
I've got a bit of an idea for the Sky Kings request, since it seems to me that we want him armored as soon as possible, but having him fight a super beast without armor might not be great.

What about retrieval? He didn't say our request had to be something killed, only our desire.

We know more northern holds had runelords, and some of those hold have fallen. Hopefully the demons wouldn't have super combatants at a wreck. What if we asked him to recover something from a lost hold?
 
We could push through 7 actions work of a multiset project in one turn, including conception/pt1, if we wish. 5 if we use four actions.

Red Bovine said:
Problem is that Kholek is coming right the fuck now and if people keep pushing things off then the Sky King is just going to end up going into battle without any armor whatsoever because people forgot that time doesn't stand still when a freaking disaster is happening at the very moment. The Sky King is pretty much the equivelant of a Demi God of his race who has likely grown even more powerful after eating the heart of an Elder Dragon. The guy has plenty of killing power as is and feel like that we just need to accept that we should prioritize his defense. And again, armor seems incredibly unlikely to combo due to the number of runes available being limited.
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He needs armor yes. But Kholek wears special armor in addition to his natural scaled body. The Armour of the Storm, which drags lightning based spells targeted within 12" (in TT) of him TO him. Not only increasing his likelihood of being revitalized and healed by lightning as he already drags a storm with him, it is also an additional level of protection, like high quality in base protective terms.

The King of the Sky needs killing power as well as armor, and we have the materials to forge powerful killing tools, at least one, for him in addition to armor.
 
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Talking about armoring up the Sky King, was it ever decided what materials we wanted in exchange for his armor? Because maybe we could get some Dragon Ogre mats, or some deamon pieces to either research or use (I think those can be used, or at least deamon blood should) or other Chaos-aligned materials, allowing the Gryphons to not go out on some extraneous hunt in the middle of a Demonic Incursion.
 
Red Bovine said:
And again, armor seems incredibly unlikely to combo due to the number of runes available being limited.
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Worth noting that since we can use other runes from other categories, its not as limited as it could be.

SurpriseMe said:
I've got a bit of an idea for the Sky Kings request, since it seems to me that we want him armored as soon as possible, but having him fight a super beast without armor might not be great.

What about retrieval? He didn't say our request had to be something killed, only our desire.

We know more northern holds had runelords, and some of those hold have fallen. Hopefully the demons wouldn't have super combatants at a wreck. What if we asked him to recover something from a lost hold?
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That is a good option, though we don't know anything of value out there specifically.
 
SurpriseMe said:
I've got a bit of an idea for the Sky Kings request, since it seems to me that we want him armored as soon as possible, but having him fight a super beast without armor might not be great.

What about retrieval? He didn't say our request had to be something killed, only our desire.

We know more northern holds had runelords, and some of those hold have fallen. Hopefully the demons wouldn't have super combatants at a wreck. What if we asked him to recover something from a lost hold?
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I mean, the Sky King's smart, but I'm not sure we'd gain much from having him go rummaging around in a dwarf hold. Not like he knows anything about runes.
 
Red Bovine said:
Seriously, what is it with people thinking that no one else is competent enough to handle things and for some reason believe us to be more competent at the job that people have literally spent their whole lives training and gaining experience in? And it definitely comes across as that. If the Dwarfs in charge believe something like that is necessary than I trust the people who should by all right be more knowledgeable and experienced enough to be competent enough to make that call.
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while I would agree that there are people like that in the Hold, then why Haven't they done so already?, so many Holds have already fallen and only trickle of Refugee surviving?, If age is the only factor in considering someone Competent I would agree with you, If the Dwarf in charge of advising the king in matter of Fighting and almost losing a fight and has experience in Fighting the demons than our Santa Dwarf, then I would consider them Competent. Considering all that our Santa Dwarf has gone through in his life, I would say he is high up in top five of competent and wise Dwarf in that region of the North.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
He needs armor yes. But Kholek wears special armor in addition to his natural scaled body. The Armour of the Storm, which drags lightning based spells targeted within 12" (in TT) of him TO him. Not only increasing his likelihood of being revitalized and healed by lightning as he already drags a storm with him, it is also an additional level of protection, like high quality in base protective terms.

The King of the Sky needs killing power as well as armor, and we have the materials to forge powerful killing tools, at least one, for him in addition to armor.
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Thing is that we can probably accomplish something similar without comboing. Kholek's armor is pretty much just geared towards dragging lighting towards him which works pretty well due to his natural traits.
 
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