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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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redj said:
Question is there any or going to be any income or treasury? Or is this quest going to be a action only economy.
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There isn't much reason to have such a thing because as a Runelord Snorri is at the peaks of monetary wealth for dwarven society and monetary issues are not generally a concern barring one suggestion the thread raised. Which was making a 10 meter plus tall Gronti out of Pure Gromril, which we can only do at all because we have the Gromril mine and the Silver Wutroth fortress.

Our wealth is qualitative, because its simpler and way less of a headache to track for soulcake.
 
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redj said:
Question is there any or going to be any income or treasury? Or is this quest going to be a action only economy.
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The wealth in the quest are favours and standing. Apart from that the statement we've got from soulcake is that "Snorri has been a Runelord for centuries. Money isn't an object for him to worry about. Unless you make a bloodthirster sized adamant golem".

Paraphrasing of course.
 
You know what the whole Adamant Golem thing is getting old. The hearts main thing is regeneration along with the endless power tap. Why not just go full size and animate a BoneGrinder sized Stone Golem? Make it Obsidian if you want bonus against magic.

Just Animate a Mountain or something. Put a Master Rune of Adamant on the external as a Armor slot or something. It would work just as well.
 
Abhishek M said:
You know what the whole Adamant Golem thing is getting old. The hearts main thing is regeneration along with the endless power tap. Why not just go full size and animate a BoneGrinder sized Stone Golem? Make it Obsidian if you want bonus against magic.

Just Animate a Mountain or something. Put a Master Rune of Adamant on the external as a Armor slot or something. It would work just as well.
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But adamant is shiny and mountains aren't. I want something that blinds an entire hostile army just from sheer shininess, even before any runic enhancement.

And how do we stop the shine from blinding our own side? Runic. Sun. Glasses. That our entire army takes off and puts on in one simultaneous action as the kind of mass-coordinated action which only a Throng of Dawi can pull off.
 
Huh...wonder if Grimnir was the one who inspired the path/guild/institution of Rangers. Every other path can be traced back to an Ancestor God after all.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Huh...wonder if Grimnir was the one who inspired the path/guild/institution of Rangers. Every other path can be traced back to an Ancestor God after all.
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It stands to reason that the Ancestor of Rangers would be so good at being a Ranger the dawi would never even know if such an Ancestor existed. :^V. Still no update till probably sunday or late saturday, just here to combat test anxiety. :^(
 
Catpetter1981 said:
You've just made me really want to make a bloodthirster-sized adamant golem. Who's with me?
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I'm against anything bigger than an Ogre since anything more is just likely to be way too time consuming and resource intensive along with the QM outright warning us that anything bigger is going to have issues due to size. It being Ogre sized means that it can more easily fit in a lot more places like tunnels and also a hell lot easier to make it high quality gear. That and the main benefits being that we can make it out of Gromril and put a layer of Adamant on top of it. We don't really need to make it bigger since bigger isn't necessarily better in some cases as we have seen with Grimnir who was able to kick serious ass while being the size of a big Dwarf.
 
How do you think Snorri would react to Grom the Paunch, beyond immediately trying to murder the greenskin? Would he chuckle in traditional dwarven fashion if/when he finds out the goblin only got so fat because it didn't prepare the troll right?
 
Red Bovine said:
I'm against anything bigger than an Ogre since anything more is just likely to be way too time consuming and resource intensive along with the QM outright warning us that anything bigger is going to have issues due to size. It being Ogre sized means that it can more easily fit in a lot more places like tunnels and also a hell lot easier to make it high quality gear. That and the main benefits being that we can make it out of Gromril and put a layer of Adamant on top of it. We don't really need to make it bigger since bigger isn't necessarily better in some cases as we have seen with Grimnir who was able to kick serious ass while being the size of a big Dwarf.
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Firstly we can still make it entirely out of Gromil at bloodthirster (10 meter) size. It just goes from expensive to putting an actual hole in Snorri's fortune. But we can do it as soulcake has said. I deem this completely worth it and totally in character for Snorri or any Runesmith worth their chisel. The only price tag I feel that is appropriate for a project like this is a blank check.

Next soulcake didn't say that size would be an issue but that weight would. Makes sense seeing as even larger Gronti, like The Miner, functions just fine. Weight is something that we can solve with Runes like the Rune of Lightfoot or Rune of Passage or something on a talisman or its boots maybe.

As for bigger not always being better as I pointed out earlier Ymir should function just fine in the Underway as The Miner, an even larger Gronti fit and worked within it just fine. If it's within the Hold then that means our Defenses have been breached and Ymir will have most likely have been defeated or subdued somehow. No way a force capable of breaching our defenses would reach said defenses or be able to properly assault them if Ymir is still in the fight.

Next, as for the difficulty in equipping Ymir with appropriately sized equipment, namely the action cost, this I also deem worth it personally as that just means that it will, ultimately, result in a superior product.

Finally, please, for the love of all that is holy, Sacred, and blessed do not try and compare a Gronti, no matter the quality, to an Ancestor God. They're GODS. The only things we should be comparing them to are other Gods. That kind of comes part and parcel with deities. They simply operate on a different rule book of reality.
 
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UlseDovThur said:
Firstly we can still make it entirely out of Gromil at bloodthirster (10 meter) size. It just goes from expensive to putting an actual hole in Snorri's fortune. But we can do it as soulcake has said. I deem this completely worth it and totally in character for Snorri or any Runesmith worth their chisel. The only price tag I feel that is appropriate for a project like this is a blank check.

Next soulcake didn't say that size would be an issue but that weight would. Makes sense seeing as even larger Gronti, like The Miner, functions just fine. Weight is something that we can solve with Runes like the Rune of Lightfoot or Rune of Passage or something on a talisman or its boots maybe.

As for bigger not always being better as I pointed out earlier Ymir should function just fine in the Underway as The Miner, an even larger Gronti fit and worked within it just fine. If it's within the Hold then that means our Defenses have been breached and Ymir will have most likely have been defeated or subdued somehow. No way a force capable of breaching our defenses would reach said defenses or be able to properly assault them if Ymir is still in the fight.

Next, as for the difficulty in equipping Ymir with appropriately sized equipment, namely the action cost, this I also deem worth it personally as that just means that it will, ultimately, result in a superior product.

Finally, please, for the love of all that is holy, Sacred, and blessed do not try and compare a Gronti, no matter the quality, to an Ancestor God. They're GODS. The only things we should be comparing them to are other Gods. That kind of comes part and parcel with deities. They simply operate on a different rule book of reality.
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Them being gods doesn't really refute the fact that size isn't everything and we do have cases of non gods killing the shit out of things way bigger than them. The only argument that you are using is that bigger is better and that's it. You aren't really using any legit argument other than saying bigger is just better and leaving it at that. And here I am pointing out that no, people making it stupidly bigger than it needs to be doesn't just make it better.

Another thing that you don't seem to be considering is that there are more places in a Dwarf hold than just the Underway and seems like it would be more useful to have the Super Golem able to reach more places.
 
I think something ogre sized makes the most sense:
-Big enough to be bulky. Sure, Bloodthirsters are larger, but this is made of metal. It'd have similar or better mass.
-Fits in tunnels. Which is important because we'd feel awfully silly if a Shard Dragon or Shaven show up below and the Gronti is stuck outside.
 
Captain Spatula said:
The wealth in the quest are favours and standing. Apart from that the statement we've got from soulcake is that "Snorri has been a Runelord for centuries. Money isn't an object for him to worry about. Unless you make a bloodthirster sized adamant golem".

Paraphrasing of course.
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Catpetter1981 said:
You've just made me really want to make a bloodthirster-sized adamant golem. Who's with me?
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Its worth noting very specifically that the question which led to discussion about a bloodthirster sized gronti was one made from Pure Gromril, not Adamant. An Adamant Gronti would be a step even beyond the Pure Gromril bloodthirster sized version.

soulcake said:
BungieONI said:
How about a golem whose body is made of Pure Gromril and is a very big Gronti going by the Write In actions? Also on that note, could we repair such a Pure Gromril Golem?
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Repairable but the kind of damage that can tear apart a Pure Gromril Construction would have other more worrying implications for you TBH.

like the fact that'd you'd be fighting something that can break Pure Gromril. :^)

Also something as large as a Blood Thirster or some other Greater Daemon would be quite the investment. my calculations were based on the average ogre sized Gronti. But uh that'd be much bigger. Enough that it'd put a non trivial hole in your wealth. Honestly I'd outright say no if you didn't own a large Gromril Mine, and made a tidy profit from Silver Wutroth.

Oh yeah and at that scale yes weight would be start to be an issue in certain cases.
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I'm going to assume that even Snorri is not wealthy enough to forge a Gronti the size of a bloodthirster entirely out of Adamant. That is enough Adamant to fill his entire workshop to the brim with the bars, multiple times over. See where he didn't build the Miner in his workshop, it was much too big.

There's also something else to consider: I may have proposed the idea, and many people are keen on it, but they are keen on slightly different versions of it and all told it would take an astoundingly long time to gather that much Adamant and it would interfere in making other things out of Adamant and would interfere in things other people want to do far too much. And which is also just an endless series of arguments waiting to happen, which is no thanks.

As big as a Bloodthirster and being made out of Pure Gromril with Adamant cladding is my absolute upper limit on how huge and expensive I'm willing to go because I actually want to see it in the quest at some point and not be stuck twiddling my thumbs waiting for the payoff.
 
If we make a Golem fully out of Adamant, it should be only a Dwarf-sized Golem. It strikes me as the only way we'd be able to afford it, be able to get enough Adamant in any reasonable amount of time, and just... there comes a point where it's just too much of an expense.

One reason I'm interested in the two factors of "Dwarf-sized" and "Adamant" is... eh, curiosity and a gut feeling I guess? Like it feels it could be something special; if it was made out of a completely pure material, and Adamant all throughout, and was made in the shape and size of a Dawi... It just... I dunno, felt special or unique to me...?

Maybe we can make it a King Amongst Golems...

Of course, then it wouldn't be a giant battering ram of a Golem, so.

On the plus side, it'd be able to use the same equipment as a Dwarf? (... I wonder if we could give it a shield? Put armor runes on a shield. Or give it a cloak like Grombrindal and Glumi had, which would allow it to hide amongst any other Dwarfs in an army... all the better to surprise the enemy with.) No need to make custom-sized equipment for it. I suppose it could also be capable of wielding any of the legendary weapons, if it ever comes up, because those are all sized for humanoids which might make for an amusing thought... imagine Ymir with Trollslayer or the Axe of Dargo or the like.
 
Regarding the idea of giving Ymir a ranged weapon, keep in mind that if it is fighting unsupported than something has gone very wrong. For ranged firepower bolt throwers and such are far, far more cost efficient and good enough.

I believe that Ymir should focus on what dwarfs or lesser works can not. So on being a colossus, having no vulnerable fleshy bits (to stuff like poison gas for example), ridiculous durability, and immense power concentration.

Multiple equipment sets for it seems very expensive to me for the likely payoff. Maybe one generalist loadout and anti-daemon? Because **** Chaos in particular, and we are pretty far north besides.


Btw could engineers in this age build tunneling drill machines? If so, collaborating on that seems like a great idea to me.
 
I would also be interested in a dwarf (well Ancestor God) sized adamant golem. Mainly for the weapon interchangeability. I think I'd prefer a giant metal statue of Grimnir In his current regalia though. A life sized adamant replica of him would be interesting though. We know something funky happens with the statue of Thungni in Snorri's workshop, so a super-golem bearing His Ancestor Rune, blessed by His priests, could well also have some interesting properties. Anyone have any idea of what might synergies nicely with the Master Rune of Waking and Ancestor Rune of Grimnir? If the Rune of Kadrin exists I could see that having some relevant effects, as it's based on the blessing of His largest temple which is at Karak Kadrin. Or perhaps the Ancestor Rune, for another link to Him.

If we do embark on a mega project that would take say, ten turns to refine enough adamant, I wonder if Soulcake would have turns that last longer, like a century long turn where Snorri stays locked in his workshop while his graduated apprentices leave plates of troll jerky outside the door.
 
Enerael said:
Regarding the idea of giving Ymir a ranged weapon, keep in mind that if it is fighting unsupported than something has gone very wrong. For ranged firepower bolt throwers and such are far, far more cost efficient and good enough.

I believe that Ymir should focus on what dwarfs or lesser works can not. So on being a colossus, having no vulnerable fleshy bits (to stuff like poison gas for example), ridiculous durability, and immense power concentration.

Multiple equipment sets for it seems very expensive to me for the likely payoff. Maybe one generalist loadout and anti-daemon? Because **** Chaos in particular, and we are pretty far north besides.


Btw could engineers in this age build tunneling drill machines? If so, collaborating on that seems like a great idea to me.
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They probably can because of the Rune of Cleaving but it hasn't come up, and that's largely their business.

Garlak said:
If we make a Golem fully out of Adamant, it should be only a Dwarf-sized Golem. It strikes me as the only way we'd be able to afford it, be able to get enough Adamant in any reasonable amount of time, and just... there comes a point where it's just too much of an expense.

One reason I'm interested in the two factors of "Dwarf-sized" and "Adamant" is... eh, curiosity and a gut feeling I guess? Like it feels it could be something special; if it was made out of a completely pure material, and Adamant all throughout, and was made in the shape and size of a Dawi... It just... I dunno, felt special or unique to me...?

Maybe we can make it a King Amongst Golems...

Of course, then it wouldn't be a giant battering ram of a Golem, so.

On the plus side, it'd be able to use the same equipment as a Dwarf? (... I wonder if we could give it a shield? Put armor runes on a shield. Or give it a cloak like Grombrindal and Glumi had, which would allow it to hide amongst any other Dwarfs in an army... all the better to surprise the enemy with.) No need to make custom-sized equipment for it. I suppose it could also be capable of wielding any of the legendary weapons, if it ever comes up, because those are all sized for humanoids which might make for an amusing thought... imagine Ymir with Trollslayer or the Axe of Dargo or the like.
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Kind of a tiny King for a class of Colossi no? Personally I'm not treating the possibility of making it entirely out of Adamant as likely because that is a Big Ask in terms of patience on the part of everyone else at even Dwarf size.

Can't make it if another project which takes less effort understandably gets ahead right?
 
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Enerael said:
Regarding the idea of giving Ymir a ranged weapon, keep in mind that if it is fighting unsupported than something has gone very wrong. For ranged firepower bolt throwers and such are far, far more cost efficient and good enough.

I believe that Ymir should focus on what dwarfs or lesser works can not. So on being a colossus, having no vulnerable fleshy bits (to stuff like poison gas for example), ridiculous durability, and immense power concentration.
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A giant golem can carry a large bolt thrower across terrain and into positions that would be nigh impossible for a dwarf to manage in the same time scale; and can also redeploy it on the battle field, and simply track moving, particularly aerial targets at a rate that a dwarf crew couldn't manage. It's effectively giving us mobile rather than static artillery/a tank in the true sense of the word, which is a massive, transformational advantage.

Particularly as one very valuable way to deploy the super-golem isn't as part of an army, it's as part of an adventuring party or special forces unit, because it represents an enormous concentration of force. If it has the Master Rune of Disguise even a giant golem can get places as part of a small unit that an army with artillery in tow never could.

Enerael said:
Btw could engineers in this age build tunneling drill machines? If so, collaborating on that seems like a great idea to me.
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In canon, the Rune of Impact was apparently invented to upgrade drills, so they almost certainly exist if that's also the case here.
 
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Garlak said:
If we make a Golem fully out of Adamant, it should be only a Dwarf-sized Golem. It strikes me as the only way we'd be able to afford it, be able to get enough Adamant in any reasonable amount of time, and just... there comes a point where it's just too much of an expense.

One reason I'm interested in the two factors of "Dwarf-sized" and "Adamant" is... eh, curiosity and a gut feeling I guess? Like it feels it could be something special; if it was made out of a completely pure material, and Adamant all throughout, and was made in the shape and size of a Dawi... It just... I dunno, felt special or unique to me...?

Maybe we can make it a King Amongst Golems...

Of course, then it wouldn't be a giant battering ram of a Golem, so.

On the plus side, it'd be able to use the same equipment as a Dwarf? (... I wonder if we could give it a shield? Put armor runes on a shield. Or give it a cloak like Grombrindal and Glumi had, which would allow it to hide amongst any other Dwarfs in an army... all the better to surprise the enemy with.) No need to make custom-sized equipment for it. I suppose it could also be capable of wielding any of the legendary weapons, if it ever comes up, because those are all sized for humanoids which might make for an amusing thought... imagine Ymir with Trollslayer or the Axe of Dargo or the like.
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BungieONI said:
Kind of a tiny King for a class of Colossi no? Personally I'm not treating the possibility of making it entirely out of Adamant because that is a Big Ask in terms of patience on the part of everyone else at even Dwarf size.

Can't make it if another project which takes less effort understandably gets ahead right?
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I'd be cool making it dwarf/human size. But I'd wanna request we aim for having the Rune of Kingship or something like that to go with the awakening. Give it a crown with those runes on it. Not sure how it'd sit with dwarves tbh, but the rune of kingship isn't a thing just yet timeline wise I don't think?
 
BungieONI said:
Personally I'm not treating the possibility of making it entirely out of Adamant as likely because that is a Big Ask in terms of patience on the part of everyone else at even Dwarf size.
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Uh. Well, I assumed that if you're willing to coat an Ogre, or something the size of The Miner, in Adamant (after you've made it entirely out of Pure Gromril) then you're probably looking at huge amounts of Adamant anyway? Making it Dwarf-sized instead, seemed possible or plausible.

Plus, I get the feeling that something made entirely out of Adamant has different effects or implications than something merely coated with it. The whole of it, of the item, would then be Physically and Spiritually pure.
 
Garlak said:
Plus, I get the feeling that something made entirely out of Adamant has different effects or implications than something merely coated with it. The whole of it, of the item, would then be Physically and Spiritually pure.
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Agreed. That's why, if we did this, I'd be particularly interested in casting it in Grimnir's likeness and inscribing it with his Ancestor Rune. Basically trying to make it into an Icon of Grimnir, a walking (and fighting, as is appropriate for a warrior god) shrine to him.

I think it's particularly appropriate now Snorri has actually seen Grimnir in action in the divine flesh, so can take (lower case) inspiration from that.
 
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