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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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  • Voting
    • Scheduled vote count started by soulcake on Apr 13, 2024 at 10:44 PM, finished with 32 posts and 23 votes.
    ahahfindtheoffswitch thungnisaysmyruneswereunworthysonowimustprovewithmybody ahahfindtheoffswitchmoonshotedition
    • 21
      [X] Plan: Ahah, Find the Off Switch
      -[X] Snorri and five Hearthguard Warriors search the room looking for an off switch, or hidden inactive gronti to turn to our side. If there isn't anything, go help Dreng and Karstah.
      -[X] The Hearthguard attempts to kite three of the Gronti around the room, blinding and slowing or toppling them with Trollgut acid bombs and any other equipment on hand.
      -[X] Karstah and Dreng form a duo and attack the nearest Gronti with intent to disable its legs, then attack the other Gronti in sequence.
    • 1
      [X] Plan: THUNGNI SAYS MY RUNES WERE UNWORTHY, SO NOW I MUST PROVE WITH MY BODY
    • 1
      [X] Plan: Ahah, Find the Off Switch Moonshot Edition
      -[X] Snorri and five Hearthguard Warriors search the room looking for an off switch, or hidden inactive gronti to turn to our side. Bring the Tablet with you if feasible, it might be relevant. If there isn't anything, go help Dreng and Karstah.
      -[X] The Hearthguard attempts to kite three of the Gronti around the room, blinding and slowing or toppling them with Trollgut acid bombs and any other equipment on hand.
      -[X] Karstah and Dreng form a duo and attack the nearest Gronti with intent to disable its legs, then attack the other Gronti in sequence.
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  • Voting
    • Imagine a runed gate that simply acts like a portal bettwen the two.
    Make two Indentical dorframes or one to be cut in half, enruned so that steping throu one gets you throu the other...
    And Voila, budged case portal tech.

    ... @soulcake ? what would we need for a step on that road, to do next?
     
    watcheye456 said:
    Imagine a runed gate that simply acts like a portal bettwen the two.
    Make two Indentical dorframes or one to be cut in half, enruned so that steping throu one gets you throu the other...
    And Voila, budged case portal tech.

    ... @soulcake ? what would we need for a step on that road, to do next?
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    I imagine a much greater understanding of ulgu. teleportation is primarily ulgu's schtick.

    and a wizard who doesn't mind possibly exploding into daemons.
     
    watcheye456 said:
    Imagine a runed gate that simply acts like a portal bettwen the two.
    Make two Indentical dorframes or one to be cut in half, enruned so that steping throu one gets you throu the other...
    And Voila, budged case portal tech.

    ... @soulcake ? what would we need for a step on that road, to do next?
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    Unfortunately, this falls into a common issue that we have: A rune that would serve as the 'connector'. We don't currently have a Rune that does that. There is some speculation that The Happening Of Things tree could give a Rune for that purpose, but we haven't really looked into it beyond random drip from anti-magic runes.
     
    I had a vague thought, and i cant read trough 3000 pages of thread to see what came up already, so please tell me if this has been refuted already.

    But how practical would it be to buil something like a signal light/semaphore thing with light runes? Maybe with some mirror/lens array to extend range? I was thinking, one of the Buruding challenges is fast communications, and if we could build something as simple as a light repeater thing, as long as it dosen't take a master rune for the transmission part, could we not build a fast communication thing along the underway, with just one light repeater thing set in the ceiling or something every mile or so? With something more complex to put in signals, but that would only need to be one at every hold or junction.
     
    Xexilf said:
    I had a vague thought, and i cant read trough 3000 pages of thread to see what came up already, so please tell me if this has been refuted already.

    But how practical would it be to buil something like a signal light/semaphore thing with light runes? Maybe with some mirror/lens array to extend range? I was thinking, one of the Buruding challenges is fast communications, and if we could build something as simple as a light repeater thing, as long as it dosen't take a master rune for the transmission part, could we not build a fast communication thing along the underway, with just one light repeater thing set in the ceiling or something every mile or so? With something more complex to put in signals, but that would only need to be one at every hold or junction.
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    At that point we don't even need runes for it, but yes this could be built in the underway assuming it is as flat as I expect.
     
    Xexilf said:
    I had a vague thought, and i cant read trough 3000 pages of thread to see what came up already, so please tell me if this has been refuted already.

    But how practical would it be to buil something like a signal light/semaphore thing with light runes? Maybe with some mirror/lens array to extend range? I was thinking, one of the Buruding challenges is fast communications, and if we could build something as simple as a light repeater thing, as long as it dosen't take a master rune for the transmission part, could we not build a fast communication thing along the underway, with just one light repeater thing set in the ceiling or something every mile or so? With something more complex to put in signals, but that would only need to be one at every hold or junction.
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    already suggested, potentially viable sans runes but extremely vulnerable. Rune enhanced, extends range and durability but it still feels a little mundane for this.
     
    This is why i like the concept. It is not a teleporter. it is a doorframe, it's stays connecte and of same travel space, regardles of distance.
    a way of traver using more fundamental causeways or reality.

    it will take a while to research, sure. just wondering what's next step could be.
    not sure if Ulgu. or rather it may be Deeper thatn just Ulgu.
    regardles funn idea I would not mind Elfs gawkin at. :p
     
    watcheye456 said:
    ... @soulcake ? what would we need for a step on that road, to do next?
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    Probably storage is the best starting place due to being the only spacial manipulation tech.
    This is probably more difficult than any project people have contemplated bar conundrum breaking stuff.
    I don't think theres a canon example of anyone developing infrastructure like this, although the wood elves come closest for discovering and utilising the World Roots?
    And erm, expect side effects, the closest thing that you probably want is the spell that leaves people with PTSD due to having to walk through the realms of chaos to get to their destination.
    E:
    watcheye456 said:
    It is not a teleporter.
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    It is a teleporter, and just claiming its a door frame isn't getting away from the fact that it teleports people.
    E:
    Xexilf said:
    I had a vague thought, and i cant read trough 3000 pages of thread to see what came up already, so please tell me if this has been refuted already.

    But how practical would it be to buil something like a signal light/semaphore thing with light runes? Maybe with some mirror/lens array to extend range? I was thinking, one of the Buruding challenges is fast communications, and if we could build something as simple as a light repeater thing, as long as it dosen't take a master rune for the transmission part, could we not build a fast communication thing along the underway, with just one light repeater thing set in the ceiling or something every mile or so? With something more complex to put in signals, but that would only need to be one at every hold or junction.
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    Its a leading contender for that challenge, because frankly nothing else is anywhere near as accessible on the tech tree.
    Actually getting around to doing it is a little more complicated and even people who are confident in this as a plan aren't really sure how to start on it as write ins are for difficult items and this would be a bulk creation making it simple. I'll try and dig up the last debate on its merits we had.

    Dark as Silver said:
    Do you remember how when we were initally discussing Gromril chain, and we broke down all of the different steps and in the end in the end we still got surprised that Snorri had all the tools so he got the reward. Not only that, but the solution was so easy that he has just assumed that other people have done it before however didn't spread the knowledge.
    Well, we've been discussing the semaphore for a long time. And it seems like we might be overthinking the difficulty again.
    What exactly are the issues that cannot be circumvented by doing a Vragni and making an apprentice make a relay tower in the middle to boost signal power or redirect it around a corner?
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    IronFist said:
    The problem i have with using a semaphore system, is that it is no more robust than the underway.
    It's faster, yes, but as soon as one of the towers is lost, the whole branch is gone.

    Personally, i'd also go diving in Secrets of Storage to try to make multiple containers that contain the same volume of space, and use them to pass letters... but if you can work with space manipulation to that point, you're basically one step away from an inter-hold portal network. But that's probably a bit out there. Unless you're a Slann

    Secrets of Storage + Movement of Things = Geomatic Portal Network?
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    Xexilf said:
    I had a vague thought, and i cant read trough 3000 pages of thread to see what came up already, so please tell me if this has been refuted already.

    But how practical would it be to buil something like a signal light/semaphore thing with light runes? Maybe with some mirror/lens array to extend range? I was thinking, one of the Buruding challenges is fast communications, and if we could build something as simple as a light repeater thing, as long as it dosen't take a master rune for the transmission part, could we not build a fast communication thing along the underway, with just one light repeater thing set in the ceiling or something every mile or so? With something more complex to put in signals, but that would only need to be one at every hold or junction.
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    Some months ago i was talking about automating an optical morse code type system with based on light + direction + forged eye.
    Basically, when the eye sees a light, it triggers the rune of direction.
     
    The semaphore has been speculated before to be somewhere in the light research tree which makes sense since things like Grimnir's holomap is a high end concept from that tree. Unfortunately we're not likely to get to that tree for a very long time because there's so much revolutionary research on the horizon. I think they'd be good for mundane communication but seems a bit too flimsy to base strategic communications on by dwarf standards. I'm pretty certain you could set up a decent network right now through the underway with a bit of tinkering and basic light runes.

    Portals are Ulgu, and Ulgu is currently in the book thanks to a certain Meargh. But yeah, messing around with space probably starts in the storage tree. This one might be easier to just target with a post consternation understanding of rune design.
     
    Xexilf said:
    I had a vague thought, and i cant read trough 3000 pages of thread to see what came up already, so please tell me if this has been refuted already.

    But how practical would it be to buil something like a signal light/semaphore thing with light runes? Maybe with some mirror/lens array to extend range? I was thinking, one of the Buruding challenges is fast communications, and if we could build something as simple as a light repeater thing, as long as it dosen't take a master rune for the transmission part, could we not build a fast communication thing along the underway, with just one light repeater thing set in the ceiling or something every mile or so? With something more complex to put in signals, but that would only need to be one at every hold or junction.
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    Creating a semaphore could be done, though doing it to solve the Burudin challenge wouldn't work.

    It is a solution that any Burudin member is both capable of and aware of, and yet they haven't proposed it. I'm generally going to assume that they want to complete the challenges, so the fact they haven't done this one indicates something important.

    I figure because they know a solution like this would not be accepted.

    On the one hand because any group of Apprentices could create this kind of thing with the basic Rune of Light and some mirrors. Alric's looking for something more than runes of light and some mirrors, something that is actually on the level of a Runelord's skills based on the text of the challenge.

    On the other hand, I expect it also doesn't satisfy the security aspect, because the dwarves know that any enemy with eyes can intercept the signal if they're somehow inside the Underway. And they know the Underway can be breached or infiltrated. Additionally, every repeater tower represents a point in which an enemy could intercept the signal and then change it, spreading false information.

    Ciphers, runic obscurement, runic locks that only allow authorized users, all that are possible to increase security - but they don't completely solve the structural issues inherent to the communication format.

    The significant expense of setting up a semaphore system across the Empire may or may not be an issue, though I'm not sure about that.
     
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    I'd put the semaphores on top of the mountains, not underneath them. It's more dramatic for one thing.

    A weird runic semaphore might be a light that can be seen even through bad weather. Perhaps pulling on themes of being a lighthouse or a gatehouse lantern that guides the weary or the lost back home.

    Other options include runes that can call lightning or runes to do this, but really really loud
    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vATHPpqS7Q

    Ciphers, etc. don't need runes. Pah. It'll be a sad day for dwarfkind when they need runes just to keep secrets. The hard part would be encouraging the messengers to keep their riddles and schemes simple enough to decipher in time.
     
    It is quite simple actually. We just need to make super artillery that will launch Dawi messengers across the world with runic equipment that will let them survive.

    Create a method of reliable: Check, Engineers would not build something not reliable
    quick:     Check, with the power of runes this thing is going to send them Flying
    secure communication as possible.: Check, Ill like to see you get information out of a Dawi that was loyal enough to allow themselves to be used as a living projectile.

    This has no flaws :^)
     
    We do still have that Connection rune/inspiration from Gazul that we never did anything with. I keep trying to bring it up every once in a while to remind people, but nobody still seems to think it worth it, for whatever bizare reason. Especially since it's usage and runic combination of is esoteric as fuck and ripe for many potential shenanigans.
     
    TimEd said:
    We do still have that Connection rune/inspiration from Gazul that we never did anything with. I keep trying to bring it up every once in a while to remind people, but nobody still seems to think it worth it, for whatever bizare reason. Especially since it's usage and runic combination of is esoteric as fuck and ripe for many potential shenanigans.
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    If I had to play off of this…
    stormlightarchive.fandom.com

    Spanreed

    A spanreed is a type of pairing fabrial, used for communication over long distances, although it can't be used while traveling across the ocean, nor while moving whatsoever. Spanreeds look like ordinary writing reeds, except that each has a small infused ruby affixed to it. The other part of the...
    stormlightarchive.fandom.com stormlightarchive.fandom.com

    Use runes of connection and animation inscribed into quills, chisels, tablets, or even etch-a-sketch type contraptions that are basically quantum linked to each other in order to send messages between linked contraptions.
     
    Xantalos said:
    If I had to play off of this…
    stormlightarchive.fandom.com

    Spanreed

    A spanreed is a type of pairing fabrial, used for communication over long distances, although it can't be used while traveling across the ocean, nor while moving whatsoever. Spanreeds look like ordinary writing reeds, except that each has a small infused ruby affixed to it. The other part of the...
    stormlightarchive.fandom.com stormlightarchive.fandom.com

    Use runes of connection and animation inscribed into quills, chisels, tablets, or even etch-a-sketch type contraptions that are basically quantum linked to each other in order to send messages between linked contraptions.
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    The biggest question is the range of the rune of direction. We already have the parts for this.
     
    I think the easiest means of that challenge would be to create some kind of paired rune. Something as simple as they both light up and go dark when one is operated would easily handle things. A variant of morse code is not a difficult concept.

    The problem would be creating such a pair of runes that function over vast distances, entanglement isn't exactly trivial.

    After the entanglement you'd probably want to work out a combo that allows for faster/more detailed communication ala a stormlight spanreed, but how difficult that is will depend on a bunch of factors - if the communication rune itself turns out to be lonely we'd have to make do with on/off pulses, but that's not actually terrible
     
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    BungieONI said:
    Creating a semaphore could be done, though doing it to solve the Burudin challenge wouldn't work.

    It is a solution that any Burudin member is both capable of and aware of, and yet they haven't proposed it. I'm generally going to assume that they want to complete the challenges, so the fact they haven't done this one indicates something important.
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    You know the bicycle wasn't really invented until the 1810's even as an impractical toy.
    It wasn't really preceded by any major innovations like rubber or pneumatic tyres, it just seems like nobody had the simple idea of using wheels to make walking easier until then.
    Nah, sorry but the fact that nobody else has come up with something isn't sufficient evidence that its a bad idea. If its such a bad idea that anyone can prove see why its bad, you should be able to explain as much.

    Alric, is looking for:
    soulcake said:
    Create a method of reliable, quick and secure communication as possible. Reveal and gain 1 Standing with Alric Thungnisson, Angkra Twenty-loops, and Karaz-a-Karak
    As a consequence of his frequent discussions with his venerable uncle, the mighty and wise Snorri Whitebeard, Alric has offered a prompt for any that wish to take it up. A way for messages to be shared across the realms faster than any Runebearer, safer than any road and as reliable as a Master Crafted axe. Such is the sort of goal, the sort of problem a proper Runelord should set their sights upon he reckons, anything less is beneath them.
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    He assumes that this is going to take the expertise of a Runelord, however I don't actually think he will care if we turn around and say "Oh heres how you can do it with apprentices." I don't think he's going to complain.
    At worst, he'd say, alright, but I want something faster, more secure and more reliable. Which is fine?.? Snorri didn't stop with the Gromril mail after he walked out of the furnace, he didn't get the mythical then he didn't even get the mythical for Chainforger MK1.

    Its important to ask does this meet the requirements that were actually set out:
    1. faster than any Runebearer
      1. Nobody disputes that this would be the case.
    2. safer than any road
      1. Notice that this is actually a much lower security requirement than you pretend it to be. In order for an enemy to intercept these messages they need to, infiltrate the Underway, decode the flashes of light, break any cyphers or codes that were placed on the message before it was put on the semaphore.
        The integrity of this system is far more easily made redundant and it is dependent on fortifiable hard points that already exist in the underway, rather than every strech in-between where a messenger can be jumped.
        The semaphore would therefore be a significant improvement over the status quo.
    3. reliable as a Master Crafted axe
      1. We keep arguing back and forth on this based on what reliable means.
        We can't actually know the reliability of the runes themselves until we attempt to design it, however I think the most people are really concerned about this is if they're less reliable we'll need to put stations closer together until they work well. Generally, I think we trust that whatever the case this is a problem Snorri can solve.
        People have said that this system is inherently limited in its reliability by the need for staffing, but frankly any design will have a human element at both ends, and its not like we'd call an axe unreliable because its being handled by a beardling.
    Draz said:
    I'd put the semaphores on top of the mountains, not underneath them. It's more dramatic for one thing.
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    True and not everywhere is connected to the underway so it'll probably happen anyway.
     
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