RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

[soulcake]

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)

 

[Fouredged Sword]

...
I'm not sure what you're advocating here, we aren't able to replicate SB because we don't have the brain and storm so its not about replacing the SB with a new one with a better IFF. If we tried, it wouldn't be as powerful so it might not even need the stronger IFF.
And your metaphor kinda breaks down for other sutff. Building a bigger safety in a new different gun will not fix the first gun.

Creating Set combos which seems like the most reasonable thing you could be saying aren't easy and need at least three items. Its not a simple "Just fix it solution" and I doubt Soulcake will let us just

[ ] [Difficult] Write In Pt. 1: [Cost: 1 action] If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. Apply optional Rune Ingredients here. You've had an idea! This is the template for write in item request! Please put down the name, description and type of equipment/item you want made. Pt 2 of the item will cost differently depending on the number of items and potentially the size of it as well. A base guideline for Pt. 2 costs will be at the bottom of the post.
- [ ] Function: Control output of SB

but I guess we can ask @soulcake would the above be a viable suggestion?

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The idea is that we create a banner rune. Banner runes grant their effect to all the allies in their area. The effect I want to have granted is to have the storm act a couple of levels of intensity lower for them (rune of sorting to sort the storm), have the storm defend them (master rune of firestorm to make the storm defend them), and to make them tougher specifically to the effects of the storm that still remain (rune of ironskin).

The idea is that we can't solve the problem from our end controlling the storm, so we solve it from the other side and make a banner rune that makes the throng not need us to.

 

[Dark as Silver]

The idea is that we create a banner rune. Banner runes grant their effect to all the allies in their area. The effect I want to have granted is to have the storm act a couple of levels of intensity lower for them (rune of sorting to sort the storm), have the storm defend them (master rune of firestorm to make the storm defend them), and to make them tougher specifically to the effects of the storm that still remain (rune of ironskin).

The idea is that we can't solve the problem from our end controlling the storm, so we solve it from the other side and make a banner rune that makes the throng not need us to.

Click to shrink...

Heres the problem. You want an item to grant an effect that alters the behaviour of another rune ("the storm act a couple of levels of intensity lower for them ") thats set Combo territory.
I'm also a little concerned that the combo you're suggesting is kinda bad. Rune of Sorting and Firestorm doesn't exist? I don't see them on the MRunelist. And Ironskin is a very dangerous thing to have in a thunderstorm... But I'm mostly concerned that you're looking for a rune to modify another rune. That stuff isn't common or easy.

If you were arguing "I want a banner that gives allies immunity to lightning damage" then I wouldn't be as concerned.

 

[NSMS]

Heres the problem. You want an item to grant an effect that alters the behaviour of another rune ("the storm act a couple of levels of intensity lower for them ") thats set Combo territory.
I'm also a little concerned that the combo you're suggesting is kinda bad. Rune of Sorting and Firestorm doesn't exist? I don't see them on the MRunelist. And Ironskin is a very dangerous thing to have in a thunderstorm... But I'm mostly concerned that you're looking for a rune to modify another rune. That stuff isn't common or easy.

If you were arguing "I want a banner that gives allies immunity to lightning damage" then I wouldn't be as concerned.

Click to shrink...

Just lightning damage wouldn't be enough; they'd also need immunity to hurricane-force winds filled with ash and volcanic glass, protection from magma eruptions, and probably also something to allow them breath without choking to death.

 

[Aliya]

From what I remember of WoQM, Mountain Soul as a banner rune almost gets there, but it loses the ability to shut down need to breathe, so that is still a problem. Should be solvable, though. Ramped up rune of nice and clean air or whatever miners use to help ventilation should do the trick.

 

[Dark as Silver]

Just lightning damage wouldn't be enough; they'd also need immunity to hurricane-force winds filled with ash and volcanic glass, protection from magma eruptions, and probably also something to allow them breath without choking to death.

Click to shrink...

That was selected as an example of a banner that didn't rely on altering the workings of another Rune. It wasn't a fully developed idea to be taken literally so please, understand it for what I meant

 

[Fouredged Sword]

Heres the problem. You want an item to grant an effect that alters the behaviour of another rune ("the storm act a couple of levels of intensity lower for them ") thats set Combo territory.
I'm also a little concerned that the combo you're suggesting is kinda bad. Rune of Sorting and Firestorm doesn't exist? I don't see them on the MRunelist. And Ironskin is a very dangerous thing to have in a thunderstorm... But I'm mostly concerned that you're looking for a rune to modify another rune. That stuff isn't common or easy.

If you were arguing "I want a banner that gives allies immunity to lightning damage" then I wouldn't be as concerned.

Click to shrink...

Rune of sorting is under structure runes, but is green so it can be applied to anything. There is a master blizzard rune, so making a master firestorm rune shouldn't be out of the question.

The specifics are not important though. The base idea of making a banner to counter the effect our storm has on our allies is the point.

 

[Cheap Orange Knofe]

Wait guys. If Kholek's brain is why we have storm control but not blue wind manipulation, wouldn't that mean that we can recharge it with lightning bolts?

QUICK WE MUST FUND THE ENGINEERS GUILD! TIME TO BUILD A HYDRO ELECTRIC DAM!
Or at least a water wheel powered dynamo. I just wanna experiment on our stuuufffff.
Or a mobile wind turbine. Powered by our Brana.

 

[Alratan]

Something to remember is that we've been told that a sufficiently skilled runesmith doesn't need reagents. They can just make a rune that does what they want through pure skill.

All a reagent does is influence how the rune expresses itself.

 

[NSMS]

Something to remember is that we've been told that a sufficiently skilled runesmith doesn't need reagents. They can just make a rune that does what they want through pure skill.

All a reagent does is influence how the rune expresses itself.

Click to shrink...

While this is true, reagents do help a lot. Snorri's probably a good few millennia away from being able to accomplish something like his armour freehand, for example.

 

[Fouredged Sword]

While this is true, reagents do help a lot. Snorri's probably a good few millennia away from being able to accomplish something like his armour freehand, for example.

Click to shrink...

So we need to be REALLY stubborn.

 

[Dark as Silver]

Rune of sorting is under structure runes, but is green so it can be applied to anything. There is a master blizzard rune, so making a master firestorm rune shouldn't be out of the question.

The specifics are not important though. The base idea of making a banner to counter the effect our storm has on our allies is the point.

Click to shrink...

The specifics are kinda important because I disagree that it is possible to manipulate runes in some ways. So if you want me or other people who believe that to support a counter banner you need to get us on board with that or pitch a design that is just based around resisting the effects.
If you aren't hoping to get us onboard with that then and are purely basing on a plan that resists then I would agree that the specifics do not matter as much as how we'd fit the item into plans and convincing people it would be more useful than one of the other items we want.

Article:

Rune of Sorting (Dwarfs in a room bearing this Rune will instinctively know where to put things away)

I have never heard a more generous interpretation of any rune, than this will make Runes in the area know not to put lightning bolts in dwarves.

 

[Alratan]

While this is true, reagents do help a lot. Snorri's probably a good few millennia away from being able to accomplish something like his armour freehand, for example.

Click to shrink...

Snorri is, but Snerra may get there sooner, even though he has a head start over her.

 

[Dark as Silver]

Snorri is, but Snerra may get there sooner, even though he has a head start over her.

Click to shrink...

Its not clear anyone ever got there. Even Thungni.
If we're saying Snerra might get there in a mere five thousand years to Snorri's seven, then it doesn't really matter as they're still both probably going to die before getting there.
Given Snorri has quest protagonist powers he's actually more likely to reach that benchmark.

 

[Fouredged Sword]

The specifics are kinda important because I disagree that it is possible to manipulate runes in some ways. So if you want me or other people who believe that to support a counter banner you need to get us on board with that or pitch a design that is just based around resisting the effects.
If you aren't hoping to get us onboard with that then and are purely basing on a plan that resists then I would agree that the specifics do not matter as much as how we'd fit the item into plans and convincing people it would be more useful than one of the other items we want.

Article:

Rune of Sorting (Dwarfs in a room bearing this Rune will instinctively know where to put things away)

I have never heard a more generous interpretation of any rune, than this will make Runes in the area know not to put lightning bolts in dwarves.

Click to shrink...

It lets you know where to put things

 

[LaggPlaguedDuke]

There is one rune that absolutely will work for protecting people in the storm. The rune of the World that Was, the ultimate 8x compression of every rune combo used in our gear. Should only take 20 turns or so, and can probably maybe be inscribed on adamant without instantly exploding from power overload.

 

[Cheap Orange Knofe]

Heres the problem. You want an item to grant an effect that alters the behaviour of another rune ("the storm act a couple of levels of intensity lower for them ") thats set Combo territory.
I'm also a little concerned that the combo you're suggesting is kinda bad. Rune of Sorting and Firestorm doesn't exist? I don't see them on the MRunelist. And Ironskin is a very dangerous thing to have in a thunderstorm... But I'm mostly concerned that you're looking for a rune to modify another rune. That stuff isn't common or easy.

If you were arguing "I want a banner that gives allies immunity to lightning damage" then I wouldn't be as concerned.

Click to shrink...

The thing is our storm is considered a regular storm. Not magic... I don't know how we'll manage to get it to stop doing storm things on our guys.

Just lightning damage wouldn't be enough; they'd also need immunity to hurricane-force winds filled with ash and volcanic glass, protection from magma eruptions, and probably also something to allow them breath without choking to death.

Click to shrink...

ON THE OTHER HAND.
The features listed here sound like they belong on an exosuit/power armor.
Should we go straight to Squat tech?

 

[Dark as Silver]

The thing is our storm is considered a regular storm. Not magic... I don't know how we'll manage to get it to stop doing storm things on our guys.

Click to shrink...

Its possible a set combo with AA might manage it. However I think the smart money is on just making something to let people weather the storm... pun unintended but happily taken.
And no, we can't go to squat tech because not even Snorri has the time to make every single individual a master crafted suit of armour.

 

[Cheap Orange Knofe]

Its possible a set combo with AA might manage it. However I think the smart money is on just making something to let people weather the storm... pun unintended but happily taken.
And no, we can't go to squat tech because not even Snorri has the time to make every single individual a master crafted suit of armour.

Click to shrink...

Not yet we can't. But Soulcake has more than a few Apocrypha that show that you're maybe underestimating Snorri.... By alot.

 

[Copperscale]

Not yet we can't. But Soulcake has more than a few Apocrypha that show that you're maybe underestimating Snorri.... By alot.

Click to shrink...

If you mean the AOS apocrypha, that's a six thousand year old Snorri who decided to put aside the rule of pride in the face of the end of the world.

 

[Cheap Orange Knofe]

If you mean the AOS apocrypha, that's a six thousand year old Snorri who decided to put aside the rule of pride in the face of the end of the world.

Click to shrink...

This just means we're at the conceptual stage. We can design components, research materials, and work on product concepts.
Look, we've already built the CHAINFORGER. And we've already flooded the runic marketplace with runesmiths who understand and are qualified to make FORGED LIMBS
We're 2/5's of the way there practically.

The Runesmiths can make power armor equivalents already. Heck they have forcefields.
I'm not even suggesting combat armor. More like hazmat+carry assist.
It's probably going to be hydraulic at first.

Just need the temp control and air filters.

 

[BungieONI]

Did Kholek's brain actually really do anything then? I thought it was supposed to let us handle the uncontrolled aspect of things.

Click to shrink...

Yep, which was letting us scroll Skarren's power level all the way from 'pretty lightning and ash flickers' to the normal cap of Storm Mantle, then click off the safeties and still let Snorri control what the storm is doing so it isn't an uncontrolled constant maximum power explosion around him.

Put another way, we can have absolute stonks of power far beyond the safe levels, and we can control it with a tactile-like sensation as Snorri describes in the previous update but the result of it being unsafe is that even with our control it can hurt our allies. We know Soul's interpretation here is essentially that in order for it to be safe for others we have to turn down the output, or make them more able to resist the fullness of its power.

Those are the only two options he's presented. Which indicate that past a certain level of power, even amazing control cannot account for every chance of harm in combat. Given that the Hearthguard could survive and fight within the storm using Expensive Protective Equipment, the control is apparently enough to allow for that sort of opportunity to exist at all.

There are two ways you know of, lowering the output of your storm or by equipping your allies to survive it. Latter is understandably more expensive than the former. #Theory #Magic #Combat

There are Runes that make it visible to others, like Runes of warning and the like, and Runes that selectively target based on some easily visible characteristics. But every Rune generally has a friend or foe identifier in built for certain effects. Your storm, and other similar level effects, are beyond the Rune's ability to shield allies from. Creating an item or Runic combo dedicated to the task that will do it isn't out of the question, but Snorri is uncertain if it will work. The two methods I mentioned above are the only ways Snorri is SURE will work first try.

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Making a singular powerful item like a Mountainsoul Banner is a third hypothetical option and the one I prefer trying first, because any such item will still make them More Gooder even if it fails its initially intended goal (And we need to make them more gooder anyway), and it might make the expensive equipment option cheaper.

 

[Dark as Silver]

If you mean the AOS apocrypha, that's a six thousand year old Snorri who decided to put aside the rule of pride in the face of the end of the world.

Click to shrink...

Its simple all we need is six times our current experience and research and then we ascend to becoming an Ancestor god, then we just do it.

This just means we're at the conceptual stage. We can design components, research materials, and work on product concepts.
Look, we've already built the CHAINFORGER. And we've already flooded the runic marketplace with runesmiths who understand and are qualified to make FORGED LIMBS
We're 2/5's of the way there practically.

The Runesmiths can make power armor equivalents already. Heck they have forcefields.
I'm not even suggesting combat armor. More like hazmat+carry assist.
It's probably going to be hydraulic at first.

Just need the temp control and air filters.

Click to shrink...

My friend. By your own measurement, 2/5ths of the way there is 47 updates.
We're on track to be able to consider this by turn 120 or so. Assuming we aren't delayed by things like the Time of Woes or the War of the Beard.
Granted this is approximately 4000 years earlier than the aporypha managed it. So yay.

 

[Cheap Orange Knofe]

Its simple all we need is six times our current experience and research and then we ascend to becoming an Ancestor god, then we just do it.

My friend. By your own measurement, 2/5ths of the way there is 47 updates.
We're on track to be able to consider this by turn 120 or so. Assuming we aren't delayed by things like the Time of Woes or the War of the Beard.
Granted this is approximately 4000 years earlier than the aporypha managed it. So yay.

Click to shrink...

You're really complaining that we're 2/5ths done with a research goal that we didn't even think to set?
Your standards are worse than impossible.

Let me guess. You're an Asian Parent Stereotype.

 

[Dark as Silver]

You're really complaining that we're 2/5ths done with a research goal that we didn't even think to set?
Your standards are worse than impossible.

Let me guess. You're an Asian Parent Stereotype.

Click to shrink...

Ah, I'm being trolled.
Good one.

 

[BungieONI]

@soulcake when you were talking about this:

There are two ways you know of, lowering the output of your storm or by equipping your allies to survive it. Latter is understandably more expensive than the former. #Theory #Magic #Combat

Click to shrink...

What did you envision or have in mind for this equipping our allies option? It sounds like a Simple Request, but I wanted your take on it in more detail

I think protective talismans might have been brought up but I don't recall for sure.