Remove ads

RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
A friendly reminder to new questers to read the Informational threadmarks and FAQ specifically before asking a question. Links below:

Frequently Asked Questions
Here is the Detailed Rune List
Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
Last edited:
Super frustrating to see the illiterate plan winning, now we can't even have books on Alchemy and metallurgy? There are a lot useful things which could be stored in writing without being Runecraft.... And I'll be honest it feels like all the outrage at books is coming from invention. A lot of 'yeah, we could make THIS library secure... But what about the others!?' as if this vote isn't just for this library, super frustrating.
 
Nah, our books just won't get shared to anybody beyond our apprentices. Which still sucks, but it sucks for other dwarfs rather than for Snorri himself.
 
AzureShogun said:
Super frustrating to see the illiterate plan winning, now we can't even have books on Alchemy and metallurgy? There are a lot useful things which could be stored in writing without being Runecraft.... And I'll be honest it feels like all the outrage at books is coming from invention. A lot of 'yeah, we could make THIS library secure... But what about the others!?' as if this vote isn't just for this library, super frustrating.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
People will emulate the library, that will happen, that's what "Normalization" is.

That means that if we do a runeversity library, the beardlings will see it as an ok to build their own. Those beardling libraries will inevitably have shoddy infosec.
 
Honestly as long as we dont maximize library making books about things related to runelore isnt gonna be nornalized and any dwarf that would want to make about runes would do that anyway with or withour the library.

Like how do you guys thinks Karstah learned Lifeleeching with Truthteller dead if not from a book or something similar she got after passing the trials.
 
Back and forth yadda yad-

TimEd said:
Except the library in this place secured by Marvelous level defense is only for rune reagents. Please stop repeating this lie.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
*Breathes* I don't recall saying it wasn't just reagent lore, or saying it was runelore. Are you calling me a liar? We're going to have problems if you do that, please don't do that. I swear to God if you do that again.
 
Mr. Idiot said:
Back and forth yadda yad-


*Breathes* I don't recall saying it wasn't just reagent lore, or saying it was runelore. Are you calling me a liar? We're going to have problems if you do that, please don't do that. I swear to God if you do that again.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
People will emulate the library, that will happen, that's what "Normalization" is.

That means that if we do a runeversity library, the beardlings will see it as an ok to build their own. Those beardling libraries will inevitably have shoddy infosec.

---
Its what you said though? Not calling you liar, just someone who's helping perpetuate anti-library sentiments by complete accident I assume. ;)
 
AzureShogun said:
People will emulate the library, that will happen, that's what "Normalization" is.

That means that if we do a runeversity library, the beardlings will see it as an ok to build their own. Those beardling libraries will inevitably have shoddy infosec.

---
Its what you said though? Not calling you liar, just someone who's helping perpetuate anti-library sentiments by complete accident I assume. ;)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
My point is, libraries being part of the formula will make them part of the runeversities others get together to make, and their infosec might not be as secure Snorri "Paranoia" Klausson's. So it's not by accident, I think libraries are a bad idea until we're absolutely sure that getting infosec up to par becomes part of the tradition for runeversities.

That and I don't like the high max of "The bird is the word."
 
Last edited:
normalization could mean normal to write books to be shared, not make own libraries, store in snorri's libraray, and could be normal to be a runelord to do it and not those lower since snorri is doing it. must be this old to write.

ediy exact words WILL BEGIN NORMALIZING THE WRITING DOWN OF CERTAIN KNOWLEDGE IN THE REGION
 
Last edited:
tri2 said:
normalization could mean normal to write books to be shared, not make own libraries, store in snorri's libraray, and could be normal to be a runelord to do it and not those lower since snorri is doing it. must be this old to write.

ediy exact words WILL BEGIN NORMALIZING THE WRITING DOWN OF CERTAIN KNOWLEDGE IN THE REGION
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That only applies of maximum option though too a lower option would boost learning to t3 while not normalizing books
 
tri2 said:
got any example of the damage it could do? dont think we are getting it
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Enemies of the Dawi could discover that we need a specific reagent for Runes of Anti-Chaos or something and specifically go out of their way to make sure we can never get ahold of that reagent anymore, or just make it incredibly difficult to do so.

It's not just the threat of them stealing Runelore and adjacent knowledge, it's providing our enemies more avenues to attack and degrade Runecraft itself.

EDIT: Of course, in the long term I'm still in favour of the library, but I feel like we should introduce it in a few hundred years.
 
Last edited:
tri2 said:
got any example of the damage it could do? dont think we are getting it
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Chaos starts taking advantage by purposefully denying key reagents, hashut cultists get more powerful runes if they ever pop up again. Tzeentch pulls fuckery and does tzeench things. Enemies take advantage of the "How to deal with x enemy" knowledge that's in there and counter said tactics.
 
Rukia said:
Enemies of the Dawi could discover that we need a specific reagent for Runes of Anti-Chaos or something and specifically go out of their way to make sure we can never get ahold of that reagent anymore, or just make it incredibly difficult to do so.

It's not just the threat of them stealing Runelore and adjacent knowledge, it's providing our enemies more avenues to attack and degrade Runecraft itself.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
does not sound like knowledge would be in book, what reagent a rune needs is runelore, while properties of a reagent would be written down, not what runes it would be used for I think
 
soulcake said:
The axe of Karstah, daughter of Klausson, one of the oldest heirlooms Clan Winterhearth yet possesses shines in the cold air proudly, bewitching all with its craftsmanship. Passed down from generation to generation, through the Time of Woes and the Fall of Old Winterhearth Hold. On through millennia of the Silver Age, until it found itself at last in his uncle's hands. The axe that they all thought he had left behind just in case things went wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm not convinced that Snorri isn't still kicking around his old workshop. Karstah might have passed on by now and Yorri might have been killed by now. But I won't believe Snorri is dead until I see him die with my own eyes, and then his body is exploded.
 
Chlof said:
Is some reagent lore getting stolen really that big of a concern?
As far as I can tell the concern is that they'll be stolen from regular runesmiths with less secure libraries and it's not as if they'll be carrying anything particularly sensitive.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Depends. I believe it is stuff that can be sensitive, like for Master Runes, and discussion on the magical qualities of reagents in general (regular or Master Rune) can lead to reverse engineering of runes. For example, finding writings describing the use of Dragon Hearts in providing immense fiery energy could lead to someone unworthy (by context, usually Chaos related, though not just Frundar in my mind) creating something like the Master Runes of Conduction as is on Trollslayer. Or, having seen the Master Rune of Conduction before, just making it whole cloth. Too be clear, this is in a context of the information not even mentioning what Rune a Dragon Heart is for, just describing its qualities and an enemy being smart enough to put two and two together.

Consider that a relatively normal method of giving 'hints' among older runesmiths is allowing a younger runesmith to have a peek at a rune. Its not super helpful without the knowledge of the right reagent, though it is significant.

Lesser runes are lesser in scale of concern for us as players, but I figure for Snorri they are significant as well, as is just weird odd stuff he was reluctant to write down regarding the Odd Materials.

Kebarton said:
I'm not convinced that Snorri isn't still kicking around his old workshop. Karstah might have passed on by now and Yorri might have been killed by now. But I won't believe Snorri is dead until I see him die with my own eyes, and then his body is exploded.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
From context around the axe and how Jorri thinks about Karstah, I think she might be dead yeah. Really curious to see if Snorri is alive for reals.
 
Last edited:
I REALLY don't think the knowledge of rare reagents will be included, sounds more like common stuff like common animals and plants, stuff for beardlings so they do not have to waste time and money to research for themselves to figure out what exactly the reagents are and their properties.
 
Chlof said:
What could they possibly get? The properties of a smattering of t1/2 reagents? Doesn't seem like enough of a concern to justify not taking it to me.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean, if its not that important, then why even bother writing it down and reading it in the first place lol. Rune ingredients is the first likely thing to get passed down from Master to apprentice or at least it seems like, because it doesn't actually contain dangerous secrets.

It just feels like both sides (and i am by no means impartial here) have arguments that are mutually impermissive. Either the knowledge is valuable, which means it should not be shared to something as imperfect as a book, or the knowledge is not that important, in which case its basically absolutely unnecessary to go out of our way to share it anyway as its going to be very easy to pass it down through normal channels as it usually is. And when time of woes rolls in, its not like the books would survive it any better than hoary ancestors so thats a non-argument either.

I honestly think its just personal preference of the general outlook and quest aesthetics instead of any real ups and downs that can be discussed here.
 
Last edited:
Honestly. The only thing the option says is that Runesmiths will write down more stuff. Which is being fearmongered to hell that they'll be sloppy with it eventually. It doesn't even consider the possibility that Runesmiths, paraniod lot that they are, will decide that yes this could be a risk. And that therefor such books should only be stored in the most secure places possible. Like Snorri's fortress of DOOOM or similarly constructed places. It ignores entirely that Snorri is the one setting tradition here on how to deal with the mass profilation of runesmithing adjecent written knowledge.

Yes. It is centralized in one place. But that place has been built by a paranoid Dwarven Runelord, enthusiastic trapmaker and over the top wall fetishist. There are large odds that this won't ever end up with apprentice Donki going to bed reading his book on the Master Rune of Beer. But an organized system of written knowledge stored in a place where others can also access said knowledge. In fact, given the buzz the whole thing will create and how it synergizes with Forum and Classes I'd say its even more likely.

In short. Dwarfs writing more books can mean a lot of things. The way the handle those books included. Except we all seem to be zooming in on the worst way this could possibly work out. A distictly human way of common book use.
 
Last edited:
Dutch said:
Honestly. The only thing the option says is that Runesmiths will write down more stuff. Which is being fearmongered to hell that they'll be sloppy with it eventually. It doesn't even consider the possibility that Runesmiths, paraniod lot that they are, will decide that yes this could be a risk. And that therefor such books should only be stored in the most secure places possible. Like Snorri's fortress of DOOOM or similarly constructed places. It ignores entirely that Snorri is the one setting tradition here on how to deal with the mass profilation of runesmithing adjecent written knowledge.

Yes. It is centralized in one place. But that place has been built by a paranoid Dwarven Runelord, enthusiastic trapmaker and over the top wall fetishist. There are large odds that this won't ever end up with apprentice Donki going to bed reading his book on the Master Rune of Beer. But an organized system of written knowledge stored in a place where others can also access said knowledge. In fact, given the buzz the whole thing will create and how it synergizes with Forum and Classes I'd say its even more likely.

In short. Dwarfs writing more books can mean a lot of things. The way the handle those books included. Except we all seem to be zooming in on the worst way this could possibly work out. A distictly human way of common book use.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The issue with the "well, surely they'll only store those books in a couple of concentrated, secure places, like our Workshop" argument is that it runs into the main reason something like what we're doing runs the risk of censure: It might concentrate Rune knowledge and authority in one place. The reason this whole endeavor might be viewed with skepticism isn't simply a matter of "recording knowledge where evil people can get it bad", even if there is some elements of that. If our Workshop becomes a concentration of Runic knowledge that we accumulate and only we can give access to, then it could be regarded as overreach of our position as a Runelord, or abuse of our authority.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top